ExclusiveCourage Versus Censorship: Behind the Scenes of ‘The Unrestricted War’

One of our lead actors actually received so much pressure so he has to withdraw three days before the shooting. That's just never happened in the film industry. He actually has a friend working for a government agency that called him to go home. Otherwise the Chinese government is going to go after you. You will be in serious danger. But I'm just giving you an example how hard it is to make a film like that. It's not only for Chinese. It's even for Westerners. It's the same thing. Our PNV today is Yan Ma, director and co-writer of the new feature film The Unrestricted War. Set against the turbulent early days of the pandemic, the film weaves together themes of censorship, fear and global power struggles, while also highlighting the extraordinary strength of compassion and selflessness. In this episode, Ian shares the real-life stories that inspire the film, the immense challenges his team faced under intense pressure, and why he chose to risk his own safety to bring this powerful story to the screen. This is Bay Area Innovators and I'm your host, Steve Esposito. Ian, welcome to Bay Area Innovators. Thank you for having me. Great to have you here. We have you here from Toronto, Canada. So welcome to our program. I just watched your movie. It's your first feature film, The Unrestricted War. And I watched it twice and I was very impressed. So I'm very excited to be able to talk to you about this movie that has just been released in Canada and in the U.S. for that matter. We don't want to reveal the whole plot, of course, but it's mainly about a Canadian virologist who is in China. He's doing great. He has a fantastic family. He's having a company. Everything is going great. And then all of a sudden, things change. He's being threatened by the Chinese government to steal a sample of his own lab, a sample from his own lab. Please tell us a bit about the plot itself, as much as you can reveal. But most importantly, how did you get inspired to do this story? Yeah, like you said, it's talking about the biologist escaping the country. And this film, the background of the story is actually the pandemic. So we mainly focus on the first 30 to 40 days of the pandemic. So that was the story background. We want to see how the protagonist and his family try to escape this very dangerous situation, very chaotic situation. And for the film, it was inspired by the pandemic itself. So we were mainly focused on the beginning of how it started. So we wanted to reflect on how this happened, how the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party, uses power to weaponize this crisis for its political purpose, how they censor the information, manipulate the public, and eventually turn this local crisis into a global pandemic. Yes, and the use of soft power, we'll talk about it in a minute. Now, how much of the story is fictional and how much is true? Because I know there's some elements, some whistleblowers that are actually true things that happened. So what's fictional, what's true? That's a great question. I got to ask a lot about how much is true in the story. Let's say this, like this story, we carefully studied the events, and a lot of the information is very hard to find because, as you know, in the environment in China, a lot of information are actually censored by the government, and many whistleblowers and even related people are actually silenced. So we have to do investigations and research around this. So the whole story, I mean, the whole movie is grounded in a lot of research, but it is a fictional film. But the message behind the story, I believe, is very real. So I hope that answers your question. Yeah, again, we don't want to reveal too much of the plot, but from seeing it, I know a lot of the things actually are true events that happened. Now let's talk about a bit the movie itself. For me, I see there's a few different kinds of movies. It's the kind of movie that's entertaining throughout, that you have fun during seeing it in the theater, and then you walk out, you go home, you forgot everything about the movie. And there are movies that are educational, you learn things, and then you remember them for a long time. But then there are some movies that there are parts of it, there's a scene or something that happens that almost hits you, like a piece of wood on your head, that wakes you up and it says, wow, this is amazing. And then you may remember that for the rest of your life. And the top two movies in the world are considered to be Citizen Kane and Casablanca. And in both of these movies, there are these elements that something happens that you did not expect, and it makes it very amazing to continue on. And it's what makes these movies, I think, at the top. And I think that your movie has these elements in addition to the entertaining part throughout. And that makes it, in my opinion, it deserves an Oscar. Tell us about how you thought about creating these elements. And some could be the soft power that's being used. Some are things that we're not going to mention because we want people to see the movie. But tell us more background of your thoughts, how you created the script. Well, like I mentioned, the script is grounded on a lot of research. And during, we look into the pandemic, especially the beginning of the pandemic and some related events. We actually realized something, which is all this, like the scenes they did, you know, the related events and, you know, the scenes they did in the pandemic, they're actually highly aligned with concepts, military concepts called the unrestricted warfare. That is actually where the name of the film comes from. This unrestricted warfare is a military concept that brought up by two PLA, People's Liberation Army's colonels. They basically encouraged China, encouraged the CCP to use all means necessary, all set of the traditional warfare to defeat their enemies. So that's why in all of these, we have the economic warfare, we have the internet, the cyber warfare, we have the political warfare, you know, all kinds of, so it's kind of beyond our traditional understanding of a war. I mean, to most of our audience, like we feel, oh, a war is like happening on battlegrounds between soldiers, but that's no longer the case anymore. This invisible warfare actually happens every field in our life, especially considering how close we are, you know, tied to China at the moment. So a lot of this information actually inspired me. I mean, I find along the way, actually inspired me to put this into the plot. So yeah, so we keep it entertaining, but also they actually have meaning in, you know, for our reality. Now, like you said, you know, many times when we think of the coercion and the war, warfare, we think of either torture or violence in some way, but in this movie, it really shows how the CCP in this case uses the soft power to pressure people, to make people do what they don't want to do, something bad, through this soft power, through appealing to their families or fame or money, or if nothing else works, then they go to worse, worse extent. How was this received in the Chinese community in Canada? How is this movie perceived? Well, I have to say, it's actually surprisingly well. I mean, so we actually released in the theaters, a national wide theatrical release we had. And after I run into a lot of audience, and many of them are actually Chinese, because again, this is something I think Chinese people wants to talk about, but they want to talk about, but they don't, they just need to have someone to have the courage to stand up to, you know, to the CCP and tell a story like this. But deep down, they actually, I think they really appreciate it. Because when I run into one audience, she was actually a nurse back in the pandemic. She just arrived in Canada, and she told me that, she said, everything we portrayed in the film is actually real. I mean, the reality is only worse than what happened in the film. So basically, they were, all the girls were like, shaved their heads, they went to stay in the hospital 24-7. It was chaotic. They are short on supplies and staff. Hospitals filled with patients are dying. And on the news, nothing happened. On the TV, everything's fine. So she was like this, everything felt so unreal when she was in there. And her family suffers through the lockdown and everything. So when they arrived in Canada, they told me that everything we said in the film is actually true. They lived through it. They lived through it as a nurse in the hospital. So that's what I'm saying. For a lot of Chinese people, when they see things like this, I would say, even a lot of people, they are too scared to talk about it, but deep down, they will appreciate it. I think they appreciate it. There's also some elements in the movie of selflessness. And to me, this is such a crucial part. And we'll play a short clip here. Why are you doing this? They'll only kill you too. The only way to help the people is to give them the truth, allowing them to decide what they want for themselves. No future can be built upon lies. One of the characters, Andrew, is telling Sophie, another character, how by telling her the truth, it's going to help to make people make the right decision. Why truth is so important for making people make the right decision. And he has nothing to gain from it. And again, this reminds me of the movie Casablanca. At the very end, it shows this act of selflessness where Rick is not going with Ilsa, you know, to run to the U.S., but he lets her go with her husband. It's an act of selflessness. If that movie, I think, was made with him going with her, it would probably be a top 100 or maybe top 500 movie. But that element itself, it shows a huge act of selflessness, how people care about someone else or for a bigger cause rather than themselves. Made a huge differentiation, making it the second best movie. I feel you showed that at least in a few cases. And again, that comes from your own experience or how did you come up with those scenes? When I was studying some of the real individuals, like a lot of the characters in the film is actually based on the real individuals, including the whistleblower of the pandemic, Dr. Lee, and also some citizen reporters that risked their lives to enter the city and to deliver the true news to the world. So they have to break through the censorship through the authoritarian government. That is very difficult because the whole city is surrounded by police and armies. So yeah, I was inspired by a lot of those individuals. They actually gave me courage, too, because I've been working on these projects, like as a Chinese-Canadian filmmaker, we knew in the beginning this is going to be, we're going to face a lot of challenges and stress, even stress and real stress. I mean, those real individuals actually encouraged me to finish this project. Like I said, it is the most valuable thing, I think, that we should cherish as a humankind. I mean, nowadays in our cultural environment, I think it's getting harder and harder for people to treasure this kind of value because, you know, we are more focused on individual feelings, our personal feelings. But sometimes in some critical moments, those values really, it means a lot. It's really going to create a difference for all of us. So we need to find the courage to do the right thing sometimes. And there are other parts where the power of compassion also seems like it's melting steel and is able to make breakthroughs that otherwise would not be possible. Please tell us about the difficulties you had in making the film and then, you know, bringing it to the public. Oh, that's, yeah, that's, right from the beginning, we've been, like, because I talked to my producers on the very beginning that, you know, making a film like that got to put us in a lot of trouble. And just because we have, like, many crew members that are Chinese, they still have family members in China, just including myself. So because in this movie, you're not only exposing the crimes of the Chinese regime, but you're exposing their dirty secrets, you're exposing how they do these crimes. So that's why I think it's it's most dangerous. Yes, it is. Like we all the family members actually facing a lot of pressure from the CCP. And for example, my family, like my family members were called to this, like, local government office and threatened by their, you know, their secret place. And they were asked to, like, warn me right after the meeting that they know everything about me, they know everything I do in here in Canada. And yeah, and one of my immediate family members income actually got cut off since the beginning of this project. So it's almost two years now. So they created a very difficult emotional and financial situation for us, especially for Chinese families. It's very, very difficult. Yeah, that's that's for me. And even the other crew members, including our actors, is a very similar situation. Like one of our lead actors actually received so much pressure. So he has to withdraw three days before the shooting. That's just never happened in the film industry. That's because everything was customized, you know, all the wardrobe and everything is ready. And three days before the shooting. Like he just he he just can't stand the pressure anymore because his family is all get so nervous. His friend calling him, he actually has a friend working for a government agency that called him to go home. Otherwise, the Chinese government going to go after you. You will be in serious danger. And he is getting this phone calls in the middle of night, like 2 a.m., 3 a.m. They call, just no one speaks on the other other end. I just it just like in the end, he just couldn't handle the pressure anymore. He told me that I have to leave. But again, like I just create a big chaos. But like I don't I don't blame him because for someone who grew up in the free world, I totally understand, you know, the kind of pressure he's going to face because, you know, the people in the free world don't understand how you're facing a government like that. That's that's like a one government against the individual. That kind of pressure is like it's huge. It's unimaginable. So, yeah. So I had a long conversation with him and I taught him that, you know, don't don't feel sorry. Don't feel bad, please, because this is not your fault. It's actually this is CCP's fault. Right. So that's but I'm just giving you an example of how hard to make a film like that. It's not only for Chinese, it's even for Westerners. It's the same thing. So you had to replace the main character three days before shooting. Dylan Bruce did a great job, I think. And Nadia Hata, she's also the one of the main characters, did a great job. How did she handle? She happens to be Chinese. How did she handle the role? Yeah, first of all, she's from Taiwan. OK, Chinese. Well, she's from Taiwan. She's a very brave. Yeah, she's a very brave, brave lady. And Dylan Bruce, too. Yeah, they they actually overcome that. They all worry. They worry a lot. I mean, especially after what happened to the first lead. And everyone is worried. But that's why I'm saying that I really appreciate the effort we everyone put into the story. It's just it's just amazing how I guess everyone in some extent, they were encouraged by the story, too. Right. Like I said, like it's not only a story because this is based on a lot of real individuals. So what they did actually encouraged all of us as well. Yeah. Now, again, this is your first first feature film, which is amazing to come up with such a film. Can you please tell us why is this important for you? Why was it important for you to to create this this script, this this story and the movie itself? Well, I mean, as a Chinese Canadian filmmaker, I mean, I have the access to the subject. Let's see. Like for a lot of those amazing doctor, like directors in Hollywood, it's going to be very difficult for them to access information behind this subject because a lot of them, like I mentioned, they are buried or censored by the Chinese government. So we have to actually go through a lot of investigation to get those information out of China. We have to interview a lot of people to to get what really happened. To understand what really happened. So it's very hard for them to access. And for Chinese filmmakers, it's just it's just simply impossible for them to do it because so many brilliant Chinese directors, but they just can't do a film like this. So for me, I feel like me and my producer as well, like we feel this. That's why we we feel responsible to bring this story to light. We need to really reflect on it. Like I mentioned, I think it's important for us to reflect on what happened so we can prevent it for the future, because we we may not really have a second chance if this happened again. If something worse than COVID happened in the future, if we don't if we are not prepared, yeah, we may not have a second chance. So that's why I feel like we do really have the responsibility to do this. And hopefully what we do here now as a starting point, we will encourage more people to, you know, more great directors will, you know, do a film like this. COVID is one thing and the pandemic is one thing. But another aspect of the movie that I found was that, you know, pretty much every other day we hear about some Chinese spy being arrested in the U.S. for revealing information or stealing information, technology and taking it to China almost every other day or every day, basically. But we don't really know how it happens or we don't really know what makes those people to do this. And through this movie, we really get a sense. We get a very good sense how they're being threatened and how they are made to do this because they get arrested. I mean, you know, they're going to be in big trouble, but they still do it. And we really get a sense of how this happened. So I think that that's a very crucial, crucial part. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly how the concepts, it fits into the concepts of our restricted warfare. So it is a warfare that is invisible, but it's actually individuals against a territory in government. So that's why individuals, even a corporation, a company, it will feel so helpless. It feels like they could be manipulated because you are actually against a authoritarian regime in a warfare. Right. So that's why it's so hard for us to handle as an individual. Yeah. So that's exactly the reason we need to be aware of this. And the Western governments need to be more aware of this so they can better protect their citizens and their corporations. Speaking of unrestricted war, I noticed that on IMDb, all of a sudden there's a lot of negative comments about the movie. First, there's positive and all of a sudden, one after the other, there's negative comments. Looking at the comments, you tell me more. Have you studied this and where are they coming from? Because it looks pretty strange to me. Yeah, it's really just all the negative comments that happens in one or two days on the last month. So basically, we had a theatrical release. We have some audience reviews. So obviously, those are coming from the Canadian audience in the theaters. So we have we have a pretty good score as a point something Batman. Right. And then we had an online release in the U.S. on Gangnam World. And suddenly, in one day, we have this fake accounts, the cyber warriors, as I call them, the cyber warriors from the CCP. So basically, these are like a one day old accounts I just created. And they are starting to read and review this movie. And they only have like one rating and one review. And these accounts are like one day old. And obviously, they are like cyber warriors. Right. And again, these are all part of the unrestricted warfare. So it's like a government's effort to hire those people because it's not easy to create accounts or go through all these regulations and to do this. You need to spend money and manpower to do this. This is how you see a government actually hiring people to do this. And what happens to me, it's the same thing. So we're making this film. It's actually it's like experiencing unrestricted warfare in real life. So all this is you witness how a solitary government uses power to attack you. Even for a film, they will just do that. What would be your message to the audience, to the audience who sees the film or who are about to see the movie? What would be your message to them? Well, I hope everyone enjoy the story. I mean, I think it's a very exciting thriller. It's a political thriller, a medical thriller. It's very exciting to watch. And I hope everyone do enjoy the story. And also, like I mentioned, the story is grounded in many research and based on a lot of real individuals. I think let's reflect on what happened. And hopefully, it can help us find the courage to confront what is wrong in the future. And the filming is all done in Canada, right? Yes, it is all in Canada. Yeah, there is no way we enter China. That's one of the big difficulties we have to face. But I would say I have to say this, that like what surprised me during the filming is this we got so much support from the local Chinese community. Even a lot of people are scared. For example, we try to scout the locations. We want to join some places, a Chinese restaurant. Like the owner are really scared that the government is going to go after them. So it was very challenging. But we also received so many support. For example, we get people from the Hong Kong community. We have this Hong Kong protesting happening in the Hong Kong street. So basically, we have like 200 people from Hong Kong community just join the background actors for free, right? They will just say, oh, we do have a payout. And we bring our own office. We bring our own signs because we know exactly what happened. We were there. So we're going to make everything look so authentic. And sometimes we have like a community group from some Chinese hiking group, some Chinese like a Falun Gong practitioner group. It's just so many Chinese community, they've been so supportive to us. That's why we can fill the streets. This is actually a big topic. So we need a lot of background actors in the hospital, on the streets. So we have like hundreds of people on the streets in the middle of the night. So they bring their entire family here to work for the film. They are not charging us. So this is the kind of support we receive from the community. I was very surprised because I was very touched and surprised. That's why I told you that in the beginning, making a film like that, I do believe deep down for Chinese people, especially in the recent 15 years, more and more influencers like yourself, that they are bringing, delivering this real message, this truth into the Chinese community. So they are breaking the brainwash system that the CCP built for them. So it's really weakening them, right? So I'm coming, I really, I think this film is, it is really a film about, ultimately it's about weakening, a weakening of the nation, weakening about Chinese people. Yeah, they're going to stand up to their power. There's another theme that's pretty much constant through the movie. And I can't help but notice that it's a theme of where people want to do the right thing, but they are being pushed by the CCP in this case to do the wrong thing. They're being pressured in so many different ways. So they have to struggle with this. It's either they do something really bad or they do what's, they follow their conscience, they do the right thing, but they can lose their family, their job, their career, probably their life, right? So there's this constant struggle, like how people can choose the right thing. Any thoughts on that? Any comments? Because I think that's a very powerful theme throughout the movie. It has to do, has something to do with my personal experience, like as a Chinese, because I grew up there in China. Because I came to Canada when I was like 22 years old. So basically I knew exactly how people were brainwashed since they were kids and how this systematic, you know, control works, right? The two main things, the means they use to control people, one is hatred, the second is fear. It happens everywhere, like in every corner of the Chinese society. So this manipulation based on hatred and fear is, like from the kids, we were taught to hate Americans, hate Japanese, hate the Taiwanese, hate whoever that say something against the CCP. They try to blame the concept of a government, the CCP government and China, right? So whatever, whoever criticizes CCP is actually humiliating China. So this is how they, you know, built this hatred in our head since we were young. And then the second thing, like that's what you were saying, is the fear, right? So they use your families against you, like what they did to my family is against me. Even I'm in Canada already. They still use this to bring fear to me and hope to crack me. And like in China, they will use all means necessary to do that, right? Use your teacher and parents. That's actually what happened in cultural revolution. That's exactly how they turn the children to beat up their teachers, their parents. That's how exactly they use fear and hatred to extreme, right? I guess what you mentioned for some of the characters in the film, even the villains in the film, there's no true villains in my opinion. Some of the people are doing really bad things in the Chinese society. In some degree, they are victims too. They are victims of the authoritarian system themselves. Because they were shaped that way. Because they were brought up in fear and in hatred. And there's so much to lose. They have to make these choices unbeatingly. And eventually, they shape their life into what it is. And they have to keep the system running by hurting other people. Otherwise, they will face reckoning. So it is complicated. It is very sad. No one is innocent. And at the same time, everyone is a victim. And you portrayed this through a character in a movie, The General. I think it's very well done. Jan, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it. It's an amazing movie. I hope a lot of people get to see it. I want to ask you one more thing. If people on this show have questions about the movie, can you tell them that you would answer them? Because they may have questions. It's an amazing movie. And would you be able to answer them? You answer to us and we would reply to them in the comments. Oh, yes, absolutely. Yeah, I'm happy to do that. Fantastic. So if our audience has questions, I had questions. And I think it's, you know, because in some ways, a mystery. But at the same time, it's pretty clear. So again, Jan, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it. And we look forward to your next movie. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you for watching another episode of Bay Area Innovators. If you enjoyed this episode and you know someone who should be on our show, please send us an email at sfbay.epochtimes.com. We would love to hear from you. Thank you and see you next week.