You Can Make $150,000 Per Year Welding With an $8,000 Certificate: Mike Rowe

every year for the last decade or so for every five Tradesmen who retire to replace them if the president succeeds in truly reinvigorating American manufacturing he's going to run into not just a skill Gap but a will Gap if we don't have a Workforce who is disabused of the stigmas and the stereotypes and the myths and the misperceptions that have kept millions of kids from giving these jobs an honest look you're going to wind up in a pretty nasty feedback loop Mike Row is the Emmy award-winning TV host of The Dirty Job series and CEO of the micro Works Foundation which Awards millions in work ethics scholarships for young people to learn a skilled trade we really have to understand what we did to incite this you know we took shop class out of high school what we did was we removed those jobs from site for every everybody this is American thought leaders and I'm Yan [Music] Kell Mike Row such a pleasure to have you back on American thought leaders it's great to see you again thanks we're kind of in an unusual time I think American manufacturing is on the road back but just at the very beginning of that road yeah tell me your thoughts on this well I'm optimistic on the one hand but I'm uh I'm a little troubled on the other I think maybe the best way to SU it up is with a series of phone calls that my Foundation gets every week now most recently I heard from somebody over at uh the blue Forge Alliance the blue Forge Alliance oversees the maritime industrial base the maritime industrial base consists of 15,000 individual companies who are collectively tasked with building our country's submarines our nuclear powerered subs their current Cadence requires them to deliver three a year I think two Virginia class one Columbia class or maybe the other way around regardless it's a massive undertaking these things are technically breathtaking and the amount of skilled labor it takes to make one real is mind-boggling so the guy calls and he says look we have to deliver 30 of these things over the next decade and we need to hire 100,000 skilled workers right now and then he says do you know where they are and I thought for a second and laugh because I get phone calls like this all the time and uh I didn't mean to be too GLI but I said yeah man I know where they are they're in the eth grade that's where they are right now and you guys at the Navy and through blue Forge Alliance just like Ford and caterpillar and every other Big Brand in this country that relies on skilled labor you guys have to make a more persuasive case for the 7.6 million jobs that are currently open currently open that employers are struggling to fill these are good jobs sixf figure jobs they're all welding pipe fitting steam fitting electric HVAC and so forth um because that skills Gap is real and if the president succeeds in truly reinvigorating American manufacturing he's going to run into all of the challenges and obstacles that we were constantly talking about whether it's tariffs and unions and so many other things uh come into play but he's also going to run into not just a skill Gap but a will Gap and if we don't have a Workforce that is enthusiastically prepared to go to work if we don't have a Workforce who is disabused of the stigmas and the stereotypes and the myths and the misperceptions that have kept millions of kids from giving these jobs an honest look we're going to have a whole different type of problem sorry for the filibuster but one last thought back in 2009 when we started microworks President Obama announced a commitment to 3 million shovel ready jobs and I wrote him an open letter and I said listen I'm rooting for you I love this idea but have you thought about the fact that the country by and large is not all that interested in picking up a shovel and if you don't create some kind of enthusiasm for the very jobs you're determined to create then you're going to wind up in a pretty nasty feedback loop and that's what we've been working on for the last 16 years and the ship is finally starting to turn you know before we continue you're just as I'm listening to you I can't help but think of this you know crazy irony because I remember back in those days there was this idea that people who had some of these jobs would need to quote learn to code do you remember that oh sure right well now we have you know this massive kind of AI Revolution chatbot and you know much more Revolution and that's mostly impacting as I'm T I've had a few shows on this now right the white color workers yeah right there's a whole lot of people that have quote unquote learned to code that actually going to be out of jobs because the AI does it better already yeah on the other hand and yes robots are doing some of the work or going to be doing some of the work there's whole lot of the skilled labor that's where actually the jobs are going to be that's what strikes me right I don't know what are your thoughts here well my first thought is Elon Musk just spoke and he would probably be better suited to answer that question uh but from what I've seen you're absolutely right for a long time the robots were coming to upend the jobs in many many factories and then there was thought about well when the AI and the robots get together God what's that going to do but now the whole thing is kind of the other way the real fear and and Loathing um in the working class that I've seen is like paralegals and lawyers and and and people who really and truly AI is just bigger IQ bigger and bigger and bigger IQ and and when you apply that level of intelligence to to searching and researching right I don't know how how the humans are going to compete but neither do I know how a I is going to supplant the plumber who I'm currently waiting 3 days for right they're in such short supply or the electrician I don't understand how it's going to make the process of physically building a house move faster right so many of these trades that we've been talking about elevating and reinvigorating for the last I don't know 16 years now are suddenly in demand in a different way because when people look at them they realize you you can't Outsource that that job's not going to go away it might be impacted to some degree by AI I think AI to some degree is going to impact everything but these jobs are not going to be replaced and the 7 and a half million positions that are open now if we don't get in front of it that number is just going to explode you're basically saying that we have to have a make the trades grade again effort or like make them sexy make them Co make them cool I mean and it's happening right like if God help us but if you go on Tik Tok and if you go on Instagram and some of the other platforms you'll see trades people making a really persuasive case for their jobs they'll they'll share videos and they'll show you the Wonder of fixing a thing in no uncertain terms and that that helps a lot but we really I just think on a broad level have to understand what we did to incite this you know we took shop class out of high school and we did it for a lot of reasons that may or may not have made much sense at the time love love shop class by the way I love it I think I probably was one of the last the last I know I was when I was uh when I was in high school 7980 um it was still there but it was it was winding down and through the 80s we really took it out and and what we did when we when we took it out was not just short change that cohort of kids who might have seen something in the vocational world that made sense to their brain what we did was we removed those jobs from site for everybody so like on your way to English class from math class maybe once upon a time you would walk past the wood shop or the metal shop or the auto shop and maybe you'd look in there and maybe you'd you'd see something that looks like work and maybe that would get your brain thinking oh I wonder I wonder what that means I wonder what that is that's that was all removed you know so I I think I can't prove it but I I feel like I could draw a pretty straight line to the removal of shop class to $1.7 trillion in outstanding student loans for non-shop degrees I think I could draw a pretty straight line from that event to the 7.6 million open jobs that exist now that don't require 4-year degree but instead some level of training right and um I think you can also just look around more more broadly you can look at Hollywood you can look at Main Street you can look you can look anywhere and you can see the stigmas and the stereotypes that are still in people's minds that really make it difficult to recruit into the skilled trades all that crap has to be debunked people still don't believe me even when I show them not just the stats but the actual humans who are making 150 Grand a year welding with an with an $88,000 certificate they they just don't believe it you have to show them right so that's that's why I'm here at this thing I I I really think that part of what has to be on the table in the next couple of years is a concerted effort to debunk that nonsense because if we don't get the Next Generation really thinking affirmatively about the possibilities of mastering a skill then those submarines aren't going to get built and that's only a matter of National Security Mike I'm going to tell get you to tell me about your amazing program in one moment that just something else came to my mind that I I understand there's a very significant number of men today young men who are not working and are not even looking so tell me about that and what do we do about it well look it's um it's sobering because it doesn't say anything good about our country and it really doesn't say anything good about the individuals either but it needs to be said because it's happening right in front of us and the best guy to the best the best guy to talk about this that I know of is an economist called uh Nick everst who wrote a book called men without work and then republished it during the lockdowns because so much of what he said had not only come true it had blasted Beyond his worst prognostications the number is 7.2 million 7.2 million able-bodied men are currently not only not working they're affirmatively not looking for work that's a heck of a thing and when you look at 7.6 million open jobs and 7.2 million able-bodied men who have no interest in them a rational person would go God we just have to hook those groups up together I don't know how to do that I I I I truly don't it worries me but I do know that behind those men is a new generation of people who aren't sitting home spending 2,000 hours a year on their screens that's the other number by the way it's real those guys they're not they're not engaged in Civic uh Pursuits they're not in the JC's they're not in the Kanas club they're not in Alliance club they're not in their Church they're not making their Community a better place not doing anything really so you know it's a it's a different part of the conversation but it's important to acknowledge and yet it doesn't change the fact that whether they're 16 or 17 or 18 or 25 men women this part of our Workforce needs to be reinvigorated fact where we got problems again Way Beyond my pay grid so let's talk about what we can do and you know when we were talking privately we were you were telling me that basically the sky the limit for people that actually want to do this that actually want to put the nose to the grindstone work their butts off you're you're there to support them with your foundation tell me about that so we offer work ethics scholarships and they're a little different than your typical academic scholarship or your athletic or your artistic scholarship the scholarships for everything um we look for people like I'm more concerned with your attendance record than I am your GPA I'm I'm more concerned with will you fill out our entire application you got to jump through some hoops can you provide references like if you were you know applying for a job can you can you make a persuasive case for yourself I like to look at video of the person I like to have them write an essay they got to sign a sweat pledge you know my sweat pledge is a 12-point uh statement of belief I'm going to work my butt off basically that's the sweat pled it's a big part of it it's part of it was just an attempt to articulate what I think work ethic is but part of it too was an attempt to kind of drill down on things like delayed gratification and um just a decent attitude and uh a measure of personal responsibility and and gratitude like the very first thing in the sweat pledge says I believe I have won the greatest Lottery of all time I'm alive I work I walk the Earth above all things I'm grateful now I love that if you don't agree with that we can still be friends right I don't need everybody to agree with me but this particular pile of free money is not for you and I tell people that every year I it's impossible to feel sorry for yourself it's impossible to feel like a victim if you're fundamentally grateful so the pledge is full of these things that are really easy to make fun of and I you know people take their shots at it and I don't mind because I'm super stingy with the money we raise right and when I hand it out I I want to make sure it's to people who at least see the World more or less the way I do and who are genuinely willing to pursue a skill that's in demand that that's what matters most I beyond that I can't control what happens but the business of elevating and celebrating work ethic matters and we've so far awarded I think about 12 million in these scholarships we'll do two and a half million this month we just opened our next uh work cathic scholarship program but the thing is to your earlier point it could be 25 million for the first time now we have enough interest we have people people got the memo people know that the four-year degree is not a guarantee they know it's expensive gen Z gets it many of their parents are starting to get it many guidance counselors are starting to get it so we're seeing a level of Interest now for the first time that makes me say well cuz I don't fund I don't go out and do the chicken dinners and the golf tournaments I don't put the arm on people but I might start honestly look there's a lot of money here and there are a lot of people who I think understand that this has to be part part of a larger solution so I'll take your money and and then that's how I'll spend it but you know something that strikes me here I don't think you said it's free money I don't think it's free money you're giving people money to build their character this is kind of what I'm hearing here well well I'm making fun of a kind of shorthand that exists in the scholarship game like if you're going to play the scholarship game you don't really apply for one scholarship you because there's so many out there and so it puts the people who administer the scholarships in an interesting spot like if I find somebody who's a true rock star maybe I want to pay for their entire education uh at UTI maybe I want to you know really get behind that person at the same time I want them to have skin in the game like I love helping people later in life who want to retrain learn a new skill I like helping people who have got a year in and need some help finishing their second year um and and I and I like the fact that that smart people who hustle they'll go like the Marine Corps for instance has a great scholarship fund that's earmarked just for Sons and Daughters of Marines so I encourage people who apply for one of my scholarships if if they qualify for that one to go apply there too you can get your whole education paid for by three or four different scholarship funds who are all kind of on the same page now selfishly I you know I'd like to do all of it but that's the real Point nobody's nobody's going to do all of it and nobody's actually going to close the skills Gap either this is very stoic this is Copan this is quick sodic we're not going to fill 7.6 million jobs tomorrow but I do think if we start to have the kind of conversation we're having and if it catches fire then things are going to happen fast and which brings us back to where we started if the president succeeds either through tariffs or sheer persuasion to bring manufacturing back to this country you're going to see a flight towards skilled labor that I think is probably going to be unrivaled in the history of modern work one quick thought as as we finish up you know one of the things I've been watching is the you know the the birth rates in all the Western countries being so low right into disaster frankly just quicker disaster for some countries rather than others mostly in the western world there's one and there's countries like Hungary which have been really tried to move the needle it's still very hard for them right in Mongolia they have moved the needle this is what I've been told and they do an incredible celebration of motherhood someone is pecked every year goes to the presidential pal is celebrated on all the media it's a whole big thing and it's all about kind of what you've been talking about you know celebrating the people that are going to be doing the thing that's really important for society sure right so maybe that you know as we finish up here you know that feels to me like what you're trying to do here two thoughts um you're talking about gratitude mhm and that's why it's the first tenant in the sweat pledge and that's why I always mention it because it's really tempting in this conversation to talk about okay the employers have this recruiting Challenge and it's easy to talk about okay all these people who are unemployed they got to get the skills and the desire and that right those are the parties that kind of push the conversation forward it's not going to really really truly change until the other 300 million Americans who share my addiction to uh smooth roads and uh affordable energy and indoor plumbing right and all standard of living yes that's right the the national gratitude sounds like a hippie dippy irrelevant thing but it's not because when a kid's trying to figure out what what to do with his or her life and they look around and they don't see shop class and they don't if you're a construction worker working on a road and the people who drive by give you the finger because you've slowed them down they don't they don't feel great about their contribution to the bigger picture right so part of what you're talking about in Mongolia and I'm not up to speed on the Mongols full disclosure but if the society has a fundamental appreciation for the underlying topic then the conversation gets a lot easier second Point regarding the math itself you know I I'm I'm no malthusian and the declining population thing does does worry me but what worries me more is the specific math with regard to the trades every year for the last decade or so for every five Tradesmen who retire two replace them five leave two come in now you don't you don't have to to be a math major to look at that and go that's just the arithmetic is not on our side that's the other thing pushing this forward I probably should have started with this but I'll end with it instead because bookends are important part of what we're talking about is PR changing the stigma stereotypes myths misperception but the other thing is just the cold calculus of the arithmetic the numbers are not on our side and that's why it's so important to make the case now to kids who are in middle school and in high school because if you got 7.2 million able-bodied men not impressed by the opportunities that exist and able for whatever reason to not work we can't ignore that it just means we have to act that much faster to get the cohort we have engaged oh mikro it's such a pleasure having you on again nice to be had