Marrying a Duggar: Austin Forsyth on Life with Joy, Questioning God, & TV Contracts | Ep. 32

Name: Marrying a Duggar: Austin Forsyth on Life with Joy, Questioning God, & TV Contracts | Ep. 32
Uploaded: 2025-02-21T00:48:43.739Z
Duration: 51 min 21 s
Channel: The Love Haven

The Love Haven

7 Video Views·Feb 21, 2025

What’s it like to marry into the Duggar family? In this episode, Austin Forsyth joins us to share his journey—from navigating the courtship process with Joy-Anna to adjusting to life in the public eye. Austin opens up about the challenges of marriage, learning to disagree well, and how his faith was tested when he found himself angry at God. He reflects on the lessons he’s learned about trusting God through trials, growing as a husband and father, and handling differences in a marriage built on faith. Tune in for an honest, behind-the-scenes look at Austin’s story, the reality of life after Counting On, and the joys and struggles of building a life with Joy.

I just remember a little Austin. We won't get into that. Austin and Megan. No, no, no, we won't get into that, Austin. And I do want to hear, you've been on TV before, and I want to dig down into this. It's not worth saying it. It's, imagine the cringiest thing that you've ever been a part of, and it's been on national television. So. Oh no. Okay, so what was it? What was Austin? Yeah, we were on a episode of World's Strictest Parents. So what happened though? Like, was there a moment where all of a sudden you were like, hey, Joy? Yeah, yeah. Do you remember where you were, what you were thinking? I do, yeah. Talk about it. What's going on, guys? Ginger and Jeremy here, and we're back for another episode. And we've got a special guest in the studio. Yes, we do. Jeremy, you got to introduce him. My brother-in-law. My least favorite brother-in-law, Austin Forsythe. Hey, at least I'm on a list. Probably been on a lot of lists in your life. Wait a minute, the least favorite, oh man. Austin, how are you doing? I was doing good. Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, no, I'm doing great. It's good to be here. So you're here out in California just for a day for something you had to do, and so we thought we'd sit you down and grill you. Maybe like a little intervention kind of thing, you know? Yeah, yeah, I wasn't expecting this. No, not at all, which is the best kind of conversation. Okay, just to set this up, for any of you who are going to be in the comments, this is going to be a lot of fun today, but Jeremy and Austin like to give each other a hard time constantly. Yeah. This is just what they do. There's a lot there, you know? There's a lot of material. Austin, what's it like being married to Joy? What's it like being married to Joy? Yeah. She's everything I could have dreamt of and way more. Like, it's amazing that you think you know what you need, and then God slowly reveals who you actually need. So yeah, she's the most amazing thing that's ever happened to me outside of salvation. That's great. She's one of our favorite people in the world. Yeah. She is. She brings a lot of joy to our family. Yeah, she does. She does. Joy, I remember the first time I met Joy was the first time I met you. And she was a spunky, just like all over the place, asked me a million questions, full of energy, full of life. And that's still Joy. Yeah. She's still, you know, that was probably 10 years ago, almost nine years ago. How old was she when you met her? I don't know. She was 27, so 17, 16, 17 probably. Yeah. That's insane. That's crazy. How long have you guys been married? This May will be eight years. Wow. So you're just a year behind us. Six months, yeah. It doesn't feel like that. You were just saying a minute ago, if you ever think back to like, when we were filming on the show, it feels like forever ago. It doesn't even feel like you. Yeah, it doesn't. It seems like that was a different life almost. Like we have three kids, and just so much has happened over the last five years, that it's like, wow, yeah, I guess we did do that. And someone almost has to bring it up, like how was it being on the show or whatever? I'm like, well, I guess we did do that. Yeah, so it's kind of weird. Yeah, it is interesting. Once the show ends, there's that separation of your normal life now, and you're just going through the day in and day out stuff. And like, it's your life now that you look at as like, okay, this is normal. This is a real you. And it is crazy how it feels so long ago, even though it wasn't. Now it's only like four years ago. Yeah. Was that tough for you to adjust to being on TV when you started Dating Joy? Oh yeah. Really? What was that like for you? I didn't really, I don't know, trust, I guess, the producers or the camera guys. Not that the camera guys really had anything to do with the production, but like, I remember the producer telling me like, you used to be, oh, it was so hard getting stuff out of you. And you always seemed like we were trying to entrap you, or you always would think a long time about your answers. And we just wanted like, you know, something spontaneous. And I don't know really why I got that. I just, I guess I was thinking if I'm going to be on camera and this is going to be out there forever, I really want to be careful with what I say. But it wasn't your first brush up with reality TV, was it? Jeremy really wants to talk about this. Yeah, see how he's kind of- He's just paving the way. Like that wasn't the first time you were ever on TV. You've been on TV before. Yeah, I'd been on the show as a younger kid, just in the background. Yeah, that's actually true. There were other times that you were on television. I do have to say that before we go to that other television thing, Austin was a friend of our family's for a very long time. Like, I mean, since he was a kid, we were friends. And it's interesting because he knew our family so well. And before he and Joy were a thing, he was just around like his family, not all the time, but like we knew the four sides. And it's crazy how I just remember a little Austin. We won't get into that. Austin and Megan. No, no, no, we won't get into that, Austin. And I do wanna hear- Austin and his sister Megan. Well, little Austin, but we're the same age. We're days apart. We are, but I just say little Austin because he was full of energy and he would drive, they had this big property, this big camp their family was building at that time. But Austin and Megan, his sister is older than him, but I just remember if we went out to the four sides, they would be driving this Ranger. They had a Ranger, four-wheeler, and they'd be driving it all over their property when they were like young. And I was so surprised by that. It was interesting, because it was before we had any of those things at our house. And- Your parents try to stay away from the ATV stuff. Yeah, they're all about like keeping everyone super safe, not taking any risks on all of those. You're a crazy country living. Yeah. Hold on a second. Don't let him get away from this, because we'll get into all this good stuff, but you've been on TV before. And I want to- Okay, jump in. Dig down into this. Because you actually, I have a very clear image in my mind of you sitting on your bunk bed. Yeah. In your room. Yeah. On television. Did you watch that? Oh, I watched it. Oh my goodness. Not back then. I think you probably showed it to me or something. I don't know if I saw that. Wait, did I see it? It's not worth seeing it. It's, imagine the cringiest thing that you've ever been a part of, and it's been on national television. So. Oh no. Okay, so what was it? What was it, Austin? Well, your dad actually is the one that got my dad involved with it. And that's a whole story in and of itself. It's basically, it's something my dad at the time felt like it was what God wanted him to do. So yeah, we were on a episode of World's Strictest Parents, which is kind of fitting for my dad. He's, yeah, he's actually not the World's Strictest Parents. He's just, you know, what he says he means and doesn't budge on it. So yeah, we were, I think it was, I wanna say, man, it was like either episode four or episode seven, like pretty early on into the show. And basically we got sent two, quote, troubled teens. They weren't brothers and sisters. Didn't know each other. One of them was from- Oh really? They weren't even siblings? No, some, I think some of the episodes maybe they sent siblings. Okay. But this one, no. The girl was from Beverly Hills and- Right down the street. Yep, yep. Crazy. The kid, the guy was from, I don't know, maybe Des Moines, Iowa or something. And so, and really out of like a lot of the episodes that we ended up watching, just for the heck of it, we probably got sent the two best kids. Wow. Out of a lot of the ones we saw. So they sent them to us for, I don't know, it was either a week or 10 days. Oh wow. And it was all about drama and trying to get the kids stirred up, you know, to quote rebel against mom and dad. But they ended up pretty much, I mean, there was, there was no drama. The show had to like kind of conjure up the kids and kind of work them up behind the scenes and be like, you're going to just take this from Terry. You're just going to, and then dad would come in the room and lay down the law and they'd be like, okay, yes, sir. So it was- Have you ever reached out to them? Tried to find them and get in touch? No. My mom kept up with the girl for probably several years. Just like once a year, try to call her, text her, email her or something. Yeah. Wow. But you should connect and see if you can find them. Yeah. That'd be fun for me to watch. While you're out here. A reunion. I don't remember the guy's name. I mean, it's on TV. We'd go back and watch it, but yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure we could find them. That's crazy. That's insane. And how, well, I'm just curious how old like you were because if they were teenagers, were you a teen as well or were you older? No, I was, I believe 14. Okay. So, and I think they were both 16. Maybe one of them was 17. Yeah. So a couple of years older. My sister would have been 16 at the time. Yep. So did that give you the itch for reality TV? No, that's probably actually what gave me the distrust for producers and stuff. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. And, you know, we did the, we did interviews and the whole, the whole thing. And so it actually kind of helped give me an idea of what it was like a little bit. Now I was young and I probably had wrong ideas about stuff, but it wasn't like just being completely thrown into 19 kids and counting. Yeah. That makes sense. Wow. That's crazy. So when you started showing interest and joy and realizing, hey, there might be a relationship here. Did you factor in, did you have to think through that? Because I feel like one of the challenges that some of the girls would have is they're not from a normal family, just circumstantially, right? They're very normal girls, but it's like, oh, by the way, we're on national TV or, oh, by the way, you know, there's headlines or whatever. But you knew that because you were around when they were filming at times, you just weren't on the show front and center. You were on the show a couple of times, but not front and center as like character, I guess you'd say. Like in the early stages of catching feelings for joy, was that something you had to process? Yeah, it was probably one of the very first conversations Jim Bob and I had, as far as just practical, just whatever, like talking about the show. And I basically told him like, I know marrying into this family, especially then, that it's just part of what the family does. So there's no way out of it. Like, if you're gonna marry one of the girls, then by default, you're gonna be on the show. And I said, I'm good with that. I didn't wanna be like a main character or for Joy and I to be a main character. I don't even know if that's the right terminology for reality show, but so that was kind of, and at that time, there were a lot of family members, there was a lot going on. And so I don't, like we didn't need to be. Now, later on when the show rebranded to Counting On, then yeah, we became a little more involved than I wanted to be because it was just, I guess at that time, Jill, Jessa, you and Joy and I. Yeah, and Janice, yeah. And so yeah, we started filming a lot more than what I initially wanted to. But yeah, there were times in our relationship where I really believe God had to give me a piece about some things and aspects of the show before we could move on in a relationship. Cause I just, I kind of knew the gravity of, and not that I could fully understand it, but I kind of knew a little bit what I was getting into. And so I really wanted to make sure this is something God wants me to do in pursuing her because just how we're out there and everything we do kind of gets scrutinized. I wonder how people would look at the situation you girls were in and think, oh, maybe that's a positive or maybe it's easy to find a guy who's interested in you. But was it more of a detriment being with the show? Did you find it to be? I feel like, well, I mean, as far as the number of guys around that would write you, trying to get in, it was crazy. Like, yeah, I mean, there were more guys interested. But genuine people, it made it harder. Yeah. Because I think you initially question motives. You question the why behind this. Why are you wanting to get to know me or why do you want to be around my family? That was another thing. Because I feel like whenever you're in the public eye, there can be a lot of characters come around, good and bad. And people can want to be there for the fame or they can want to be there for genuinely wanting to get to know you. But then there's also the aspect of the show that plays into it. And like, that was something that was super cool about Austin coming in because he wasn't an outsider. And it was cool because like, you weren't buddy-buddy with our family at that time. But you also, well, I guess kind of, yeah, you were. John and I were close. You guys were, but not the entire family at that point. And we knew who you were though. It wasn't like you just rode into the family. So that was something where. That actually worked against you a little bit though. It did. Because Mr. Duggar watched you grow up and was like, Austin, really? Because you know who. He thought of the 12 year old Austin probably. And that's, I think whether you married in or whether you knew the family, there would be challenges that you'd have to face and work through and figure out for the, even with like the logistics of the public eye stuff, because you realized that you knew more of what that was gonna entail coming in than like Jeremy or Ben or Derek, somebody like that. Yeah, actually, all of the brother-in-laws, we were all completely naive. You had a front row seat from. And I had the hardest time. Well, I don't know if I had the hardest time. Maybe not more than you, but. Well, everybody has to have a hard time at some point because you have to get in, you know? And there needs to be some level of like, there needs to be some level of vetting and working through things because it is such a huge thing to like make that decision, to think what is my involvement gonna be? And it's, you're marrying into, like you're marrying the girl, you're marrying into the family and the TV show all at once in the public. So there are like four aspects that you feel like, okay, I have to really make sure that I'm serious. And also, how was it for you? Because coming into that, you already knew us, but then if you make the relationship public and say, at some point you're like, okay, maybe like, did you wrestle with thinking if this goes public and then I have to walk away for any reason, did that put more pressure on you to like figure out where you and Joy were before you entered that space or made anything public? Yes. I think I did a lot of praying and fasting before I even approached your dad and then even before Joy even knew because I didn't wanna do that to her, have a failed relationship on national television or whatever. And yeah, I just, I took it very, very seriously. And I'm not saying by any means all relationships are different, they're not the same. But for me, I feel like I did enough praying and fasting on the front end that I didn't really, like once your dad and I told Joy or once he told Joy that I was interested, at that point, like I just had such a peace, like I'm gonna marry this girl. Now, I know God could change his mind. I knew that. Or I knew that the circumstances could change like just because God led me here, maybe the end result isn't Joy. But like I had done enough soul searching and just seeking the Lord that I was, I wanted to marry this- You were settled. Yeah, I was settled. You're willing to take that next step. I love that. I had the same kind of sense of peace. I remember, because there were a lot of hurdles to get to where we are today. Part of it was the teaching that they grew up in. So this is how we do courtship. This is how a young guy has to go about things, which I was naive to. Part of it was just the show stuff is like, well, because there's all this interest because of their public platform, you've gotta be vetted to a certain degree. And then part of it is just, she has a lot of brothers. She has a dad who care. So you've, it doesn't matter if there's a TV show or religious teachings, you gotta get through those guys to get the girl. And so there was a lot of praying. There was a lot of seeking the Lord. And I remember thinking there were reasons for me to walk away, like on a human level, thinking like, this is getting too difficult. I don't hardly know her. Like, why is this so difficult? I'm jumping through hoops. I don't even know what I'm doing this for. And yet when I would go and pray, the way I put it is I didn't have the faith to walk away, which means like, you know, in Romans 14, he says, whatever is not a faith is sin. You have to follow where you believe the Lord is leading you and I didn't have the faith to walk away. There was something that as I would think about her and pray about the situation, I just felt, no, I just have to keep pressing. Like I have to keep pursuing. And I'm so grateful I did, but that really was the kindness of the Lord to give a peace and a settleness. Even when some people might be, Jer, what are you doing? You know, I get how it looks right now. It looks really difficult or, but I just have a peace about it. I think I need to take that next step. And it wasn't like this premonition of our future, even marriage. It was just, no, I just need to take the next step. No, I just need to see this phase through. I just need to keep talking to her father. I just need to keep, and then with each step, there was just greater confirmation. Yeah, I felt the exact same way. What switched? Because you were the little, you know, annoying 10 year old Austin running around being a jerk. And Joy, if you would have told 14 year old Joy, like, hey, you're going to marry Austin, she probably would have gone, eww, and run away. No, she had a rush on being a wiener. She actually did. If you would have told the nine year old Joy. So what happened though? Like, was there a moment where all of a sudden you were like, hey, Joy? Yeah. Do you remember where you were? What you were thinking? I do, yeah. Talk about it. I've talked about it before, not with you guys necessarily. I was coming out of a low spot, a spot where I thought I was owed something from God because I had been faithful to him. And when that didn't happen, I was mad at God. And I spent the better part of a year being mad at God. And so when I finally got over that, when the Lord finally was like, man, what are you doing? Are you just gonna whine and pout? I remember when the Holy Spirit was like talking to me, I remember the exact place where I was, where he was like, are you just gonna stay in this, this woe is me, have a pity party for yourself because it didn't go the way you thought it was? Like, go talk to Job or go read Job. Like, life isn't just about you and getting everything you want. And so I kind of, in a sense, rededicated. I don't wanna say it was like as major of a transformation as rededicating my life or whatever, but I just got, I just reestablished my relationship with the Lord, like where I was going and what I was supposed to be doing. And I remember I came to the place of contentment where I was like, God, I don't care if I ever get married. I don't care what people around me are doing. Like, I just wanna serve you. I just wanna be faithful to you. And so I don't really care. Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, you know, I have a desire to get married, but that's not what I'm gonna focus on. I just wanna focus on my relationship with you because it's been kind of broken over the last year. And then literally it was about a month after that, joy, like literally I rolled out of bed, put my, my feet hit the floor. I sat up and I'm just sitting on the bed and the thought, what about joy? Have you prayed about joy or would you pray about joy? And I mean, that was, it was, it was the weirdest thought I'd ever had because she's four years younger than me. I was 21 or 22 at the time. So she, she had just turned, I think 17. And I was like, what? No, a little joy, joy, like, no. And so I actually thought that for a while. And I, and I thought it was in the moment, I thought it was Satan trying to like distract me. And looking back, you know, learning to recognize how the Holy Spirit talks to us and, and tries to convict us. And like, it was the Holy Spirit, you know, prompting me versus, you know, Satan is degrading and makes us feel worthless. And just the way he, he tries to communicate with us. And so I thought it for like a month. I was like, man, get this thought out of my mind. I don't, I don't want to be praying about this. I literally just told God that I want to work on my relationship with you. Get this thought out of my mind. And I started praying and fasting about it because I literally couldn't think about anything else. Like all day was just consuming my thought. What about joy? Pray about joy. And looking back, Satan probably isn't going to be, you know, I want to, like, I want to be careful because Satan doesn't talk to me, but you know what I mean? Like Satan's not going to be asking me pray about joy. You know what I mean? I don't, I don't feel like, so. That's a good assumption. Yeah, yeah. He doesn't typically tell us to like pray about stuff. Yeah, yeah. So that's not like his MO. Yeah, yeah. So it should have been a, should have been a sign. So I started praying and fasting like, God, get this thought out of my mind. I want to, I want to work on my relationship with you. I don't want to be thinking about girls or whatever. And then it was like, he was like, hey dummy, it's me talking to you. Like, I'm the one asking you to pray about this. And so I started praying and fasting. I mean, really our whole relationship started with a lot of praying and fasting. I'm not, I'm not a guy that like fasts for days on end. I just, I physically, I physically just, I can't hardly do it. So I'll do shorter fasts, but yeah, that's kind of how it started for me. And then it turns out all along, Joy kind of had been praying about me or had a crush on me too. She had a crush on you and she's so, so subtle. She's just so subtle. She like wrote your name on the wall in a project. I'm like, hey, this girl, she's so- How long was she crushing? Yeah. Four years. Yeah. She was? And she did a good job. Like there was one time I can remember I was leaving, we were playing volleyball or something and I was leaving. And I think it was, I think it was her and Carlin, which I'm, I think I was probably 18 at the time. So she's 14, her and Carlin, you know, little, little 14 year old girls. And I'm leaving, it's late at night and they both come running out, running out to my truck and jump on my running boards are like, bye Austin. And I thought that is really strange. Like that's, that's not very normal of- In this setting, in our setting especially. Yeah. And so I was like, maybe, and I may have even thought like, maybe I need to make sure like I put some distance, like make sure, whatever. And she was young. And yeah, yeah. She was really young. She was crazy. But that's really the only time that I ever thought one time like- That she could have. Yeah, maybe, maybe Joy. But you know how it is at that age, like you crush on this guy one day, the next day, next week, whatever. So I didn't really think anything past that. Was courtship strange for you or is it, it wasn't a new concept. Were you in that whole courtship world? Did you think like, Hey yeah, if I meet a girl, I'm going to court her. That's not how my family was necessarily. My sister had gotten married year, year and a half before I started pursuing Joy. And that's not how her and her husband's relationship went. But I did understand that in the circle, that's how it is. And so I kind of knew going in like kind of whatever, whatever they got going on, like I have to play by their rules. Like I can't bring my thoughts. You had, yeah. Cause you had enough knowledge of how things went because you saw a lot of my family walking through relationships and you knew in a sense what was required. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd seen Jill, Jessa, and then you were kind of, we were kind of in it together, right? It probably worked out well because we were probably help distracting, you know what I mean? Taking some of the heat off each other a little bit. It's not all concentrated on one person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, really it like looking back, like if it would have just been me, I don't know if I would have made it. So thank you. Did you do a lot of chaperone dates? Yeah, all of them. Who's your go-to chaperone? Justin. Oh man, that's Justin. He's often married now. Claire, they have mini horses. Have you ever seen those mini horses? No. Dude, they're like tiny horses that are like dogs. Jeremy wants them. I want them. He wants them here. And I'm like, they'll probably get taken by a coyote in our area. She just bought these mini horses just for fun. They're like dogs. Yeah, really. They're so cute. But they're bred from normal size horses. They're smaller than mini horses. Yeah. Like mini, mini horses. They're like a dog. But they have like normal sized horse teeth and stuff. It's crazy. Bro, I'm not kidding. What are they called? You gotta just put a picture up here. All I've seen is teeth on this dog. Mini horses. Horse teeth and a dog. Sounds a little dangerous actually. Dude, look. Look at this. They're so cute. What? They're so cute. That's like a full grown horse. Jeremy talks about these. The number of times that he pulls this up is ridiculous. Aren't they cute? I've never seen that before. That's awesome, isn't it? So Austin's gonna go home and just get a couple in his backyard. You guys have space for it. Yeah. It would work. We had some miniature horses, but they were like, you know, are you kidding me? These are like puppies. What do you do? Yeah, I mean, it's just a- They're not. They're just for like a pet. Like a puppy. Can you see Gunner riding one of those? That'd be so cute. Crazy. So anyway, that's Justin. Yeah. Yeah, Justin was my buddy. Joy and I did a lot of work projects together. And he loves projects. He loves going on those things. Yeah. Yeah, Justin loved. So it worked out well for me because I got free labor. So you'd go to Sonic and sit there, just be staring deeply into each other's eyes and Justin's sitting there like sipping on his Slurpee. Like what is he? Yeah, I would tell Justin, go sit in my truck or like. Yeah. Did you ever have a conversation, a moment in all seriousness where you're like, hey, let's talk about this on the phone? Because it's like, you're wanting to talk about something, but you got a 14 year old kid sitting there. No, because I lived there. And so like, yeah, you didn't have as many interactions with Ginger. There were so many times I was like, let's just talk about this later. No. Because you're sitting there. Yeah, no. Because when you came into town or were around, like it was a bigger deal than just me coming over. But no, like if we were working on one of my projects, I'd be like, hey, we're going to talk, you go over there, Justin. Like you go in the next room or whatever. And he, yeah, him and I were buddies. Now he's obviously quite a bit younger than me. I don't know, 10 years or so. But so he was kind of my little buddy before joining. And so I would say, I don't know, he respected me or trusted me or whatever. And so he gave us a lot of space. So yeah, if it was- Good job, Justin. Yeah, thank you, Justin. I owe you a lot, bud. If it was like one of the other siblings, then yeah, I don't think we did any serious talking. Yeah. You and I have some theological differences even to this day. And how have we resolved this? How have we resolved this? I guess what's the definition of resolved? You just have differences? Yeah, like, so I can learn to get along. You can agree to disagree on things. And that's the cool thing. I think y'all are such good, you can be such good friends without having to see eye to eye on everything. You always hate to say it. You hate to say it. Trying to get mushy. But it's true. I know, I'm getting too, okay, sorry guys. There are no tissue boxes coming out right now. But we've had some good conversations. Yeah. Because I remember Austin and I have probably had, I remember at least one four hour conversation we had at Onyx Coffee. Wow. And we just went through stuff and it was just like, okay, we disagree. Let's talk about it. And that's actually been really encouraging. It's super healthy to do. Yeah. I try to tell a lot of my friends, like, don't just pick friends in your circle. And one, because of location, because you are here, you're not in our circle. And then two, theologically, you are a little bit different. And so don't just pick somebody in your exact circle. Cause you have a really small worldview then if everyone's thinking the same. And so I have really appreciated your viewpoints and just you think about things that I don't think about because some of the other counsel I get is in the same circle as me or whatever. And so I've really appreciated over the years being able to come and ask you advice. I mean, we were talking about something last night on the way from the airport that I wanted to get your point of view on. And so I've valued that and I think it's great. No, I would say the same of you. And it's been interesting. People have all these theological debates and when you're doing it online or when you're doing it with people that you have nothing in common with, well, really you have something in common with every person. That's James, who is the half-brother of Jesus' whole point when he's like, with your tongue, you bless the Lord and then you curse those who are made in his image. This ought not to be, he says. So you do have something in common with every living soul. But sometimes those conversations can become so harsh and brutal when what, honestly, coming into the Duggar family and then coming into the sphere where you were and having these conversations, it helped me tremendously because instead of just having a theological viewpoint that I'm trying to shove in someone's face or like prove I'm right or win some dumb argument, I'm sitting across the table from my future mother-in-law who's asking sincere questions and I'm having to say, oh man, that's such a good point. I'm like, here, can I show you why I believe this? Here's this verse. And you and I have had tons of those conversations where I remember one where something had been said, not by anybody in the family, but someone in those circles that was basically condemning me as a heretic. And so I just pulled you aside. Do you remember this? In the closet, in the hallway going out the big house. And I just said, and I don't think you and I were even at a point where we were like, our relationship wasn't as strong as it is now. It wasn't not strong. We just hadn't spent time together. And I just said, hey, Austin, I just want you to know like what was said about my theological point isn't true. And I'd love to talk about sometime if you want to talk about it. But I just want you to know, I do have a vantage point on this thing. And that was one of those moments you were like, yeah, dude, let's talk about it. And we talked about it then and I just started some stuff. And we walked out of that room still not agreeing, but having a space of going, hey, that kind of rhetoric, like honestly, like hateful rhetoric isn't helpful. And building straw men and putting people in unnecessary category, that's not helpful. What is helpful is going, oh, you view that text in the Bible this way. Interesting. So I see it differently because of this, but thanks for sharing. And my goal wasn't to convince you. I don't think your goal was to like change me. It was, and I think I honestly opened the door, probably for a lot of our friendship building even more because there's maybe, I don't know, I'm just thinking about this for the first time now, but maybe there's a trust established or something where it's like- You can talk through things. Yeah, we can talk through stuff. And not just like leave it, like everything's great, everything's good. Yeah, not just have this facade, but then deep down go, you know, I don't trust this. But go, hey, let's just talk about it. Yeah, no, I think you're right. Being able to calmly, respectfully talk about things. And that's something that I would say, marrying into the family and then having just so many different dynamics from in-laws and brother-in-laws and just all of it like has taught me to have a lot more grace for people. Looking back, like, yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to be around me much, you know, when I was probably whatever. From the time I was born to last year. Dude, I feel the same way sometimes. I think that's a natural part of growth though. Like, I remember there was actually a moment, I was thinking about this this week, where I was in college, maybe halfway through and God was doing some work on me in college. And I went back to a lot of my old buddies in high school and just asked for forgiveness, just like wrote them a note on Facebook or something back when it wasn't just our parents on Facebook and was like, sorry for being a jerk. Like, sorry that I was around you. I wouldn't have wanted to be around me then. But that's a natural part of growth, I think. I think so. Yeah, I had someone in our church, I don't know, a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about a decision that was being made in the church or something. I was like, man, I just, I don't agree with this. And I don't, you know, he was like, you know, you're looking at this person from knowing them over the last five years. He's like, what if people judged you from five years ago? And I was like, yeah, I hope people wouldn't judge me from five years ago. I hope they would, you know, judge me over the course of my life and see growth and whatever, and then judge me off of that, not just off of something that happened five years ago. And you know what's interesting? I don't even mean to bring this full circle, but with like the TV thing, because I even, you know, bringing up that when you had been on TV earlier and you look back on that and go, that's one of the things that the dangers of reality TV is it creates a perception of who you are in that moment. And that that's stuck for the rest of time. It doesn't really allow much growth. Yeah. It doesn't allow like normal natural transformation of a person's development. Yeah. Because people will forever see you as that, unless you're ongoing, like you grew up on TV and the nature of the Duggar show is, but for many people, it's like, nope, that's you. Well, I think they kind of label, think they kind of label you like, you know, whatever. Joy was always spunky or, you know, they always ask the other siblings leading questions about, what do you think about Joy's spunkiness or whatever? And so, yeah, you kind of get labeled almost how the producers want your character to be. And I feel like in the beginning, I feel like in the beginning, I was probably labeled more of like, I don't know, serious, doesn't have a good time, like just always whatever. And then I think later on, I think you and I started bantering back and forth and the network kind of saw that and they would ask, you know, questions about, what do you think about Jeremy and how he did this? Isn't he goofy or whatever? And probably vice versa trying to, and so I think towards the end, they kind of pulled more of who I was out. And then that's what a lot of people said when Joy and I were doing our YouTube channel, like, wow, this actually seems more like Austin than the show. More real, like that's, cause you know who you are, yeah. The character of who everybody wants you to be versus who you are in everyday life. There's only so much of that that comes across on a reality TV show. And okay, real quick, were there ever any times where we're filming and you were like in the background or whatever, or that you were asked to step away cause maybe they were doing a big scene with the family when you were there? Oh yeah. Multiple times? Oh yeah. Okay, cause I remember one scene with Jeremy, this was funny. They were building the tree house. Were you there that day? Yes, I was. You were? Were you asked to step away? It was a different producer. It was not one of our normal ones. You probably were there building it. I don't remember, but I remember I was asked to, hey, I need you to. Yeah, cause that's funny. I remember it was a new producer who didn't really fully understand whoever one was there. And Jeremy was there and he was asked to step away from the scene because if you have too many characters, you have too many people who are in the scene that people don't know, it gets confusing. And they're like, well, who is that? So they had him step away. And then I remember later they were like, oh no, we should have had you in there. We didn't know what you were here for. And they had no clue that he was a thing. That brings up a really fascinating point. People would be really curious to know what was it like during the Duggars filming their reality TV show, but you're on the fringes. You're like a friend, so you're around, but you're not in the show directly. What was that experience like kind of witnessing all of that? When they would come to the Big Sandy Conference and here comes the film crew and you have two trailers over or you're watching this, what's your viewpoint? Before you're interested in joy and all that. Did we film at your family's camp a couple of times? I thought so. Yeah, yeah, like, man, I was probably 11 or 12 when y'all came in Horseback Road and did some different things. Yes, that's right, a father-daughter retreat. Yeah, yeah. Yes, that's right, okay. Man, I don't know. I think because I kind of like from, I think we met their family when I was eight or nine years old. And so, and it was before the show. So I think kind of growing up with them, like it was just something I always knew and expected when they rolled up and the film crew rolled up. I guess it made me feel kind of awkward or like, I don't want to be around this. Like when the cameras started coming out, like it almost, I don't know. Because I think I kind of looked at it as not reality because when, as soon as the cameras turned off, you know, it was like, okay, back to life as usual in some ways. I'm not trying to say it was all fake and I'm not like, I'm not saying that, but yeah, when the cameras were off, you could talk more freely and just- There's a certain level of energy too that you have to have because it's a, people are watching for some sort of a performance, even if it is supposed to be natural in reality. You have to be a little more excited, a little more on, yeah. And you can just relax. That's like, oh, that's not right. Go have a camera stuck in your face and be mic'd. Like you're not gonna act normal for the first year and a half until you kind of get the flow of things. And level out, yeah. So yeah, I was never starstruck or any of that. And probably because I grew up, like saw them before and then watched it unfold. And so it didn't really bother me. I think I tried to stay away. Like if I knew the film crew was there, like I would just, I wouldn't really come around until I saw the film crew had left. And then you would come for like volleyball nights. You'd come for hanging out with the brothers or going somewhere with John. Yeah. What was the perception of people who are in that world? Because obviously the Duggars were around people who are very much conservative, like-minded. Did it create some tension with the show or for the most part, like was the perception, oh yeah, this is a great opportunity. The Duggars are filming now, so we stay away right now. Then they'll be done filming. We can go over. And I'm thinking, I guess, particularly at like those big conferences that everybody would go to. I feel like the people that knew the family felt that way. Like, let's just kind of give them their space. And then, yeah, you have people that want to try to be on national television that would walk up and whatever, just, or linger around hoping that the crew would come or whatever. But I feel like the more genuine friends would like see, okay, the film crew's rolling up. Let's step back and kind of give them their space. Unless they had like a role, like they were the music teacher or a tutor or something like that. But otherwise I'm just thinking of some of the friends over the years, I feel like, yeah, they kind of would give them their space. And unless Jim Bob was like, hey, we'll come over here. You know, I need you to be around or whatever. And then I feel like most of them didn't want to be there. Yeah. But you definitely had the people that wanted to be there. Yes, and you could tell very quickly who was all about just trying to get their foot in the door and to like present themselves as best friends when you didn't really, you're like, wait, what's your name? I don't know if I met you. When they filmed at your family's camp, did you guys have a watch party? Did you ever watch it on TV? Or were you like that, film next? Not, okay, we did for our show. We went to a neighbor's house that had- You guys didn't have TV? No, we didn't have cable, no. Yeah, for World Church Experience, we did. But for when they came over, we probably didn't see those till years later. And it's not like, yeah, I don't even remember how it was on. When you watch World's Strictest Parents, the episode, were you guys sitting there, had you seen it before? Or were you going, wait, that's not what happened? Like, what was the reaction in the room as you're watching? Oh man, I don't remember. You didn't get like a rough cut before though. No, I don't think they gave us a rough cut. Yeah, no, we saw it on television for the first time. Cause yeah, they didn't really give us any editing rights or anything like that. That'd be a little scary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember sitting there being like, no, no, no. That was three days ago or like that reaction of whatever, of me sitting on the bunk bed and then them panning to her. Like that didn't happen. Y'all just completely splicing stuff together. And that makes sense with your level of distrust because you're like, what's gonna happen if I go on a reality show now where they're there all the time? Because then how do you function and live a normal life with people in their house all the time? That's something I gotta say was unique about the Duggar Show was, I think it gained so much traction that it was, I'm pretty sure, unprecedented for a network to give the family editing rights and say, hey, anything you want taken out, take it out. And so every episode that we were on, we would get a copy of it and we would edit. And there were times where sometimes our edits were pretty strong where I remember one episode where we were like, yeah, we don't wanna be featured in this and they didn't. And so that's pretty unprecedented for reality TV. When you sign your life away on those contracts, it's like, no, we're allowed to splice a reaction from Tuesday and put it on a conversation on Friday and you're not gonna really do anything about it. Yeah. And they would kind of do that with the interviews, right? Like, because we'd wear the same clothes, same set. And so they would kind of- You can use them interchangeably. Yeah, the actual interviews. But like, yeah, footage from just normal, yeah. Yeah, Joy and I had, I don't remember us ever having like really big, like, oh no, y'all can't show this or whatever. I think when we did push back about having Gideon, I didn't want any film crew there. I took a lot of heat for that. What an interesting dynamic, having to have conversations about whether your kids are shown on TV or birthed on TV, you know? Fascinating, just- And that's something which Jessa and Jill, I believe had already had Spurgeon and Israel. And so I should have thought about it, but I don't think that's something- It didn't cross your mind. Yeah, it's not something that as a single guy that that crossed my mind like, oh, one day I'm gonna have to make the decision if I'm gonna have the network, right? With cameras in our face, you know, whatever. Yeah, you just, there was a lot of stuff like that that you just don't know how- Yeah, uncharted waters, and you're having to deal with it for the first time. But it brought you and Joy close. I think that's so cool to see in those relationships of, especially, you know, with the girls, like going out on their own, becoming their own, having to work through things, but it demands you guys trust each other. You work through these things at an early stage in your relationship. It can deepen your relationship even more because of the difficulties you're having to face immediately. And I think that that's something that's, like we've seen too. It's been cool. And just seeing the level of growth, even in Joy and in you, has been super cool throughout the years. More in Joy. And- Just, he's grown, but it's still been like- Yeah, yeah. No, I would agree. No dang, I just can't, because I always think of, I always think of, I say little Austin. We are the same age. But little Austin- Choosing what in her mind, how she perceives herself and you. Yeah, people are now gonna be looking at pictures of Ginger and I standing side by side, like, is Austin shorter than Ginger? No, I think you were actually always taller than me, but I just have this picture of like this locked in time. Girls mature faster than boys. Yeah. And it was just like, yeah, you were Austin that I knew as a kid, and we were both kids. I remember my first impression of Austin. Yeah. What was your first impression? I was sitting around, so I pulled up to this big RV in Big Sandy. Ben comes out. Hey, what's up, man? I greet Ben and Jessa. Hey, we gotta run off and film something. So I sit down. I'm sitting there in chairs like this, like lawn chairs, and there's Austin. And you were talking so confident about what you would and wouldn't do in life. Yeah, I'd never do this. Yeah, I'd do this. Yeah, I wouldn't do this. And I was just like, I literally thought, wow, he's got a lot of confidence in how life is gonna go. Would you rather have a guy like that or a guy that's like, I don't have a clue. I don't know what I'm gonna do. Yeah, that's actually true. Very true. It's better to be confident, I guess. But it is cool to see genuinely like how the Lord has led you guys. Yeah. Joy is genuinely one of our favorite people in the world. She is. She's blossoming. She always challenges me, like watching her be a mom, all the things. And you're doing an incredible job with your family. Yeah. You've got a beautiful family and we're very proud of you. We love you guys. We have a lot of fun together. But when it comes down to it, I mean, you're perfect for her. And I know you say she's a blessing to you, but I know she'd say the same thing about you. So we love you guys and we'll let you go get to work. I know you got work to do. That's why you're out here. There's a lot. Thanks for hanging out for a little bit and sitting down with us. It's been super fun. Yeah, thanks for having me. It's been good. Next time you're here, we'll have your better half with you and we'll all sit down. Yeah. Yes. Please do. We miss you, Joy. Miss you a lot. All right, Austin. Thanks for hanging out. Thanks guys. See you guys next time.