Mind, Matter, and UFOs: The Quantum Link

These things flying around, they are already conscious AI. I was shown classified military intelligence. I'm not even saying it's U.S. military, am I? But I know that this happens to be a fact. We are sitting down today with our Bay Area innovator, Dr. Jack Sarfati, at his home in San Francisco. Dr. Sarfati is a theoretical physicist with degrees from Cornell and PhD from UC Riverside. His publications revolve around quantum physics and consciousness. What our consciousness is, is simply the reaction of matter back on its quantum wave function, which is a mental thing. We're going to have robots that are just as conscious as you and I. Several released CIA documents indicate that Sarfati was involved with projects such as the study of UFO propulsion, the connection between gravity and consciousness, as well as the Stargate project related to remote viewing. We have this giant coherent quantum wave, which is our mind field with a soul. It's a physical structure. We understand what it is, and we understand how that quantum wave changes the motion of matter. With the increased interest and several recent disclosures on UFOs, we will take a deep dive on these and more. This is Be'er Innovators, and I'm your host, Steve Espas. Dr. Sarfati, welcome to our program. Thank you for having me. Well, I'm glad to be here. We're in your house in San Francisco. I want to start with, you know, there's a lot of UFO sightings, a lot of things happening lately. It's been 1947 pretty much when the first sightings were being reported, right? But now it seems like it's increasing in intensity, and there's a lot of awareness. People are getting more questions. Now, you've been involved with several programs where you studied how potentially these crafts are able to maneuver the way they do. Not only potentially, more strongly than that, in actuality. Okay. Yeah. Well, please tell us about your research and what you found out about the capabilities of this craft that are being in the… Okay. Let me give first a little bit of history. I'm a World War II child. I remember World War II. I was born in 1939, but I remember it very vividly. My mother's brother, my Uncle Arthur, was in the Army in combat for years, and my grandfather was in the Army. And when I was about seven or eight, my parents split, and I lived with my grandparents. And I used to go down where my grandfather worked for the Army Quartermaster Corps. I used to hang out there. This is like the Garment District of Manhattan in the 1940s, late 1940s, only about two or three years after 1947, right? Yes. And I used to play there. And I remember this Army officer would come and talk to me. And I was a very bright kid, reading all the science fiction, rockets and all, Isaac Asimov and all that stuff. And this officer would encourage me to study that. And he even started talking about flying saucers. I'm pretty sure that was Phil Corso, who was this Army guy who wrote The Day After Roswell. He was involved with the whole Roswell crash, right? Just the 1947 event sparked the… Yeah. This would have been, for me, about 1949, maybe 1950, but only a few years. And so I already knew about flying saucers when I was a child, 10 or 11 years old. I was involved in a special program in high school that the military had for these young, very smart kids to try to get them into science. And we were also… it was kind of like the X-Men. They would test us to see if we had psychic power, like Uri Geller. And they would talk about flying saucers and the whole thing. And it was also very patriotic. They were like guys from the Men in Black, the FBI, you know. But in any case, this was like an after-school program conducted at Columbia University in Manhattan. I was in Brooklyn, but I used to go up to Manhattan. As a result of that, I was sent to Cornell. My mother didn't have much money. I was sent to an Ivy League, a very exclusive Ivy League school, Cornell University, everything paid for. My professors were the guys who built the atomic bomb. You know, if you saw the film Oppenheimer, those were the guys I learned physics from at Cornell. This is like 1956 to 1960 or so. It includes Hans Bethe. Hans Bethe. Hans Bethe was my advisor. And there were other famous… Philip Morrison, Robert Wilson, and then ran the Tavia, the big lab in Chicago. But the guys, you know, very important people from Los Alamos. Okay, so then what happens? I am a young assistant professor of physics in San Diego, which is a Navy town. We were running Navy programs and military contracts, stuff like that. Basically, the people from the Central Intelligence Agency and the Defense Department basically came to me and they said, Jack, we want you to work on two problems. How does consciousness work? In terms of physics, the material explanation of our conscious experience. How do flying saucers fly? This is, you know, over 50 years ago. So everything's happening today. It's like, you know, Johnny come late. These guys, we've been working on this a very long time and we've solved the problem. We understand. We solved the consciousness problem about 30 years ago, about 1995. And we solved the propulsion problem about 2011. So it's already been 15 years. So we understand it perfectly. The consciousness problem is quantum mechanics, okay? But there are different ways that people, different schools of thought and how to interpret the meaning of quantum mechanics. The standard way or the mainstream way is by, from Niels Bohr and a lot of his, John von Neumann, well, John Wheeler, people like that. And even now, Roger Penrose. It's called the Copenhagen Interpretation. And what they're saying is that there is this quantum wave function, you know, which is very kind of all the spooky stuff. The entanglement has to do with this quantum wave function. They're never very clear what the quantum wave function is. So let's define a little bit quantum entanglement for our audience. Yeah, well, I have to first describe the wave function, okay? So the quantum entanglement is a property of the quantum wave function. If, say, you have a quantum wave function, I have a quantum wave function and they merge together. And that's kind of entanglement, you know, in a very rough way. In an easy way to understand, you have one particle here and another one very far away. And they affect each other, right? Okay, well, now this is part of, it's tricky. In the Copenhagen Interpretation, there are no particles. You can't even talk about a particle. Because there aren't any. Which is a problem. This is a problem. But what you can say is that you can say there's a wave function. There's a little localized wave packet over there. And there's a little localized wave packet over here. And they somehow are connected with each other. That's the entanglement, okay? Then they have something called collapse, which is like a deus ex machina. I don't know if that's Latin, deus ex machina. It's like a miracle. Then a miracle happens. The wave function, maybe consciousness does it. They're not clear. The wave function collapses into a particle. So it's like, it's a wave. It suddenly collapses into a particle. Okay, well, this is, you know, this is tricky. A lot of, and this is when Richard Feynman, who I knew, and he helped me with my work, actually, back in the 60s when I was a graduate student. Richard Feynman would say, nobody understands quantum mechanics. And even Niels Bohr said, anyone who thinks he understands quantum mechanics doesn't really understand it. That's because they have this kind of, it's this, you know, wave function, no real particles. It's called the reality problem, the measurement problem. All these, like, fake problems because they have the wrong physical picture, I think. Any case, Einstein never liked this. Einstein said, there's something wrong with this. Everybody arguing, what's the meaning of quantum mechanics? There was this popular book by Sir James Jeans, a British physicist. He wrote a book called The Mysterious Universe, popular book, in which he says, the universe now looks more and more like a great thought rather than a great machine. The machine was Newtonian classical physics, the 17th century clockwork universe, mechanical stuff, you know. But the great thought, it's kind of missing, you know, is the wave, like the wave function itself. And even back in the early 20s, when the quantum theory was being developed, you know, by Bohr and Schrödinger, even if you read Bohr, Niels Bohr's early writings, he says the wave function is something like a mind. It's like a mental field. So the very beginning quantum mechanics, that was there. So that's where the connection starts to happen between consciousness and matter. Let's call it proto-mind. It may not be a conscious mind yet, but a mental field. Entanglement, because entanglement is kind of like telepathy, you know. It's always remote viewing, precognition, all these things connected with this quantum entanglement. And in some vague way, they weren't very clear, none of these guys were clear, that somehow, he said, the quantum wave function is analogous to the mind. And in fact, there's a book written by one of my mentors, I guess, David Bohm. Back, he was at Princeton around 1950, working with Einstein at Princeton, right after the war. But in chapter 8 of that book, he tells a whole chapter about Bohr's theory, how the quantum waves are kind of like the mind. And he has this, it's called, you know, the analogy between the mind and the quantum waves. And this relates to the UFO propulsion. Well, we haven't gotten there yet. But there is a connection. Oh, of course, yeah, there will be, but that's too quick. But what I finally realized is that it's not just an analogy, it is the mind. In other words, the quantum wave, the quantum properties of matter, are the mental properties of matter. In other words, there's a philosopher named David Chalmers, and he wrote an article in around 1966, Scientific America, about what's called the hard problem. In fact, Tom Stoppard wrote a play, a London play, the hard problem. You know, what is consciousness in terms of science, in terms of physics? David Chalmers does say that there must be some kind of physical entity which corresponds to the mental process. Yeah, it's the quantum wave function. Einstein didn't like this idea that there are only waves and no particles, there are no classical fields even, there's no classical electromagnetic field. There's like this wave and it collapses into like a field, a classical field. He didn't like that. Bohm was hanging out with Einstein at Princeton like 1950, 51, and you know, going over all this stuff. So Bohm, on the basis of his discussions with Einstein, came up with this new interpretation. He rediscovered an interpretation that Louis de Broglie in Paris had discovered in the 1920s. Basically, you have both waves and particles. You have the quantum waves and you have these classical particles. You talk about both of them. And not only classical particles, but classical gravity fields, like Newton's gravity, Maxwell's electrodynamic. There are these classical structures and there are these quantum things, okay? And what Bohm showed is called the Schrodinger equation, that Schrodinger did back in the 1920s, the wave mechanics, the quantum wave mechanics. And Bohm was able to recast it in a little mathematical trick, using what's called the polar decomposition. You know, it's just complex numbers. It's not that hard. I mean, people in high school, smart high school kids, yeah, I can show them how it works. And what he showed that if you just take the Schrodinger equation and reformulate it in a slightly different, but equivalent mathematical way, you get both the waves and the particles, classical and quantum waves. And there's something called the quantum potential, which in classical physics, say you have an electric charge in an electromagnetic field. The charge is going to move in a certain path in space time, right? It's called the world line. What the quantum wave does, it exerts another, an additional non-classical influence changing the motion of the particle. So that's the mind moving matter. In other words, when I do this with my finger, I decide to do that. What I am, there's a big quantum mechanical wave in my brain and yours too. So there's a big giant quantum mechanical wave. It's, you know, the mind wave. It's a physical wave. And that mind wave, it's fairly complicated. It's what's called feedback loop. But that mental wave, that quantum mechanical wave is causing the matter doing that. So according to the mathematical structure that David Bohm already created around 1951 at Princeton with Einstein, right away if you just say, well, the quantum wave function is a mental field. And what we have, there's some more physics, but basically we are like giant, we have this giant coherent quantum wave which is our mind field or the soul. You want to call it the soul? You call it the soul. It's a physical structure. We understand what it is, okay? And we understand how that quantum wave changes the motion of matter. So we've solved half the problem. How does mind move matter? Trivial. Just running an equation in Bohm's theory. So that answers the old age- Half the problem. No, but also the old age old question, mind versus matter. Oh yeah, we understand that. They're the same. It's easy. Just that philosophers, you know. So they're not separate things. No, well, it depends what's separate. I don't know what separate means. Why? Because we have a beautiful mathematical theory that fits experiment. And we have the structure. We have the quantum waves. And we have the classical particles in the classical fields. So mathematically, I mean, physics, you know, the language of theoretical physics is mathematics. So we have a beautiful mathematical model that we can build. It works for a moment. It works. Everything works. All we care is if it works. We have technology. We have Apple computer. We have AI. Everything works because of what I'm telling you, okay? But we've only solved half the problem. We now know how the mind moves better. We haven't yet solved the consciousness problem. What is it that, you know, that you're feeling things? You're conscious of what I'm telling you. Elon Musk's Grok AI, it's machine intelligence without consciousness, like a zombie, like the zombie apocalypse. Except they're not eating flesh, right? Not yet. It's not like terminating yet, but okay. So the question, what's missing? Something is missing. We still don't understand consciousness. Ah, guess what? But in 1993, 94, I understood it. I had an epiphany, you know, what happened. You know, Herb's Theater, down around there, there's a clean, well-righted place for books. And I went and checked the physics books, the science section. And there's a book, it's a book by David Bohm and Basil Hiley called The Undivided Universe. I had worked with Bohm in London back in the 70s. So I said, oh, look at the book. And I open it up and just pull off page 30 or something like page 31. And there they're talking about how, what happens in ordinary quantum mechanics. The quantum wave is able to change the motion of the classical particle. But there's no direct reaction of the particle back on its way. Or at least they don't count for it. Well, in standard physics, it's not there. It's missing. And as soon as I saw it, right away, bang. I understood, ah, there it is. Because what it is, what consciousness is, since the wave function is a mental field, and when you're conscious, you're conscious of changes in things, right? If you had no sensory, I mean, you're conscious, my words, because these are changes. So what that is, is that the electric fields and the electric charges in your nerve system, you know, they're like patterns, you know, the neurodynamics of that, gets down to a certain level. And what it's doing, it's reacting back on this coherent quantum field that's in your brain, or all over your body, actually, okay? And it's those little perturbations that's your conscious experience. But this was also beautiful, because this now connects with the UFOs, you see, because it turns out, so you have quantum mechanics, and then you have this additional thing, I call it post-quantum mechanics, or you could call it special quantum mechanics, and more general quantum mechanics. What was missing from the ordinary quantum mechanics was what's called the action-reaction principle, you know, which we've heard about, like Newton's law, you know, propulsion or something. Yeah, it's because, like nature, if something acts on something, then that, whatever it's acting on, should react back on it. And that's a, it's like an organized, it's like metaphysical principle, you know, philosophical principle, okay? Now, gravity, UFOs. It turns out, Einstein did his special relativity in 1905. He's talking about vacuum, first of all, things in vacuum, and you're looking with light rays in vacuum. It doesn't work inside matter, see, that's what people, it's only in vacuum. And he's talking about, you know, a clock, a clock's moving, okay? Or a measuring rod is moving, and, okay. So, say there's something happening out there, but we're in space. Let's imagine we're in our spacesuits, we're out in space, okay, because it's simpler. That's, well, Einstein, he was only thinking of, of really a vacuum, of the atmosphere, almost vacuum. And you see a clock, you see a rod moving. You're looking at the rod, and I'm looking at the same rod, but we're moving relative to each other. Yes. We're moving relative to each other. But we're moving in a special way, without acceleration. We're what we call inertial observers. We're moving at constant speed at a straight line. Okay. And what happens is, because you're measuring the properties of the rod with light rays, and light rays follow, you know, they, like light rays, they have a finite propagation speed. So there are delays and stuff like that. So when you measure the length of that rod with your, at a distance, remote sensing with your light rays, you measure a certain length of the moving rod. I measure a length of the moving rod. We don't measure the same length. It's called length contraction. Or we may measure the way the clock, you know, the time, and you'll measure a certain time interval between two events that you're looking at. I measure that same time interval between those same two events, but we're in relative motion to each other, relative uniform motion to each other, but we get different answers. So it's like time dilation, length contraction, but that's called special relativity. No gravity. You couldn't explain gravity. This only happens in vacuum where there's no gravitational field, no big massive. I said, how am I going to do gravity? He struggled for 10 years, from 1905 to 1915, what Einstein realized was missing was this action-reaction principle, because what happens in special relativity, space and time are what's called a four-dimensional space-time continuum. It's a physical, it's like a physical thing, okay, the space-time continuum. And the space-time continuum causes a certain motion of particles. It's called a geodesic. In other words, if I have just like a little particle that has no electric charge on it, and it's in a space-time without any gravity in it, that particle is going to move in a certain way. It's going to move in a straight line, because it's flat. You know, it's Euclidean geometry. It's going to move in a straight line at constant speed. That's called a geodesic motion. So the space-time structure itself determines that kind of motion of a free particle. But then I realized, okay, well, the space-time, space-time is like the quantum wave function here, in analogy, okay? Quantum, we got the quantum, the mental wave, and here I have the space-time continuum is like the mental wave, in analogy. He says, well, the space-time is causing the motion of the particle. It's called the geodesic free motion of the particle. But the particle is not reacting back on space-time. It's just like, this is, as soon as you put that in, bang, he gets the equation I have on the board. He gets the field, I'm making it simple. But in other words, gravity is the reaction of matter back on the space-time. Space-time tells matter how to move, is John Wheeler, who I studied with, although he believed in Copenhagen, but that's okay. Space-time tells matter how to move, but matter tells space-time how to bend or how to curve, and that the reaction of matter back on the space-time continuum is the curvature, is the gravity field. That's gravity. Okay, so what do we have here? We have this beautiful thing, you see. We have, on the one hand, we have general relativity of the gravitational field is the same as special relativity without gravity, plus the action-reaction, the action of the space-time continuum on matter and the reaction of matter back on the space-time continuum. Action-reaction, that's the key thing, right? That's gravity. And then we have, in the quantum realm, that was classical physics, then we have, in the quantum realm, the same pattern, the same general pattern. Instead of the space-time continuum, we have the mental field, the mental waves, the mental field. You know, when James Jeans says the universe is great thought, you know, the thought field, whatever you want to call it, the intrinsic property of the universe, that is mind, mind of God, as we get into religion, the gods, all that stuff, you know, cosmic consciousness, all that stuff. And so what our consciousness is is simply the reaction, the reaction of matter back on its quantum wave function, which is a mental thing. The change in the mental structure is your consciousness. That's the basic idea. And we can test that in the laboratory. In other words, we're going to have robots that are just as conscious as you and I. This is what the CIA asked me to do. We now have it. I've solved the problem. Mission accomplished. George Bush, thank you. Mission accomplished. But now, here's the problem. These things flying around, they are already conscious AI. And I'm going to say something I've got to be careful because I can't go and do that. I was shown classified military intelligence. So I'm not just talking theory. I'm talking about I have been shown things by a military... I'm not going to say which one. I'm not even saying it's US military, am I? But I know that this happens to be a fact. Okay? But tell us how it actually works for this craft itself. How does the craft function? You explain how it works, but give us a sense of what makes it maneuver. I mean, explain. Oh, okay. Well, no. What the craft is doing... You have to look at my equations. What the craft is doing... The technology... Okay. Einstein's field equation, what Einstein did in 1915 was in a simplified way to show how you could convert electromagnetic fields into gravity fields. The problem was that the coupling, the strength of interaction between electromagnetism and electric charges and gravity was very, very weak. In fact, the coupling turns out it's what's called reciprocal Newtons. One over... A Newton is a unit of force. It's like 10 to the minus 43 reciprocal Newtons is the coupling. Very small. Everybody realized back even in the 1920s that in principle, we could change the gravitational field with electromagnetism. And that would also... We could travel in time, by the way. That's a whole other thing. See, time travel. If you can manipulate the gravity field, gravity is spacetimes. It's a spacetime field. So you can control gravity. It means you're controlling time. You can time travel. And this is a whole thing we've been into. Well understood. It's not science. This is just mathematics. Standard application of mainstream physics, I'm saying. But the problem is that it took too much energy. If the coupling is very small, it means that the amount of energy density you need to do it is just impossibly large. But what we're seeing is that these craft, they are manipulating the gravity field inside their little fuselages. And the fuselages are made out of what are called metamaterials, certain artificial materials that we're now manufacturing in the lab. And so what they're doing, they're just... Tell us more about the metamaterials and what it enables. It's like basically artificial atoms, right? Yeah, they're artificial atoms in a lattice. Metasurfaces, like in a two-dimensional lattice, but they're layered. There's several layers. And what you have, you pump in electromagnetic fields at certain frequencies. And what it does is what's called a resonance, makes a resonance, and it just increases the strength of that coupling. That's that S thing I had. In fact, there's a project at Lawrence Livermore Laboratory over here, Livermore, by a physicist named Michael G. Anderson. And he has what's called the warp reactor. And it's a hot fusion kind of thing. And so you take, he has these beams of ions and he collides two beams of ions together. And using my equation, okay, where I'm able to connect the strength of the coupling to certain electromagnetic properties of this plasma, it's called the dielectric, the relative dielectric permittivity of the plasma. What he's able to do, he predicts, if my equation is right, the testing to see if I'm right, that what would happen is that you create a little warp bubble, you know, where the three things smash together, you'll create a little warp bubble in the gravitational field in which the surface, the acceleration of gravity of the surface's bubble is 16,000 Earth G. So one Earth G is like 10 meters per second squared. So 16,000 times that, okay. It's not a black hole yet. And this little warp bubble is about 1 ten millionth of a cubic meter. Okay, so they haven't done it yet because I think in order to do the experiment, he wants $250 million from, so I don't know if I talk to Donald Trump and Elon Musk and maybe persuade them to do it, okay. So this is a proposal they have. But there's also another reason, that's just this machine, they want to build this machine, it's 60 feet by 30 feet, you know, it's a big reactor, fusion reactor. But the other things they can do is they can test nuclear weapons, you know, there's all kinds, it's a nuclear weapons lab, Edward Teller, it's Edward Teller's lab. Yeah, he's dead now. So that's one test of what I'm telling you about. You know, they have the detailed equations. But I have a much simpler way of doing it. I have a much simpler way of testing the idea. It's called the Cavendish experiment. This could be done very cheaply, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars, maybe. I think there's a certain laboratory in Torino in Italy, I was told they may want to do it. So we'll see. So I have another way of testing the basic idea of this. So the idea is that what we're seeing, we're actually seeing these machines flying around. And what they're doing, they're controlling the gravity field inside the metamaterial thin shell fuselages. They're controlling that gravity field with electromagnetic fields, some kind of like a Tesla battery. Well, maybe it's cold fusion, or maybe it's just radioactivity. They may just have radioactive batteries, you know, uranium decay. You could just have decaying radioactive nuclei embedded inside the lattices that'll provide enough energy, you know, to do it. It doesn't take that much energy. And so we're seeing it. It's technology that these drones that we're seeing, they're not really drones, some of them may be drones, but, you know, all these weird things. They just saw something in China, just Kim Burafato was just showing me you could actually see a big craft like right out of Independence Day. I don't know if it's real or not, but, you know, the stuff on X.com. So we understand it perfectly. I understand it perfectly, and a few people, I'm a PhD, I'm working with a couple of PhD, MIT engineers, you know, aeronautical engineers, very smart, and a couple of other PhD scientists. Let me see if I can summarize it. So through the power of their consciousness, these beings are able to change or influence gravity within the craft through the metamaterials. Yeah, well, they are, okay, these creep, the machine itself, the fuselage itself is already a conscious artificial intelligence. It's a quantum mechanical computer. It's both simultaneously a propulsion system and the conscious control of that, you know, super intelligence. It's computing on, you know, every nanosecond, or maybe less than that, because it has to make these super computations very fast in order to change. In other words, the gravity field that it's creating in different parts of the fuselage is different than it's changing in time all the time. Oh, in fact, in fact, when you change gravity quickly, when you change the field in time, you can produce ionizing radiation. It's called the anti-gravity. If you say, if a drone, if one of these drones, you know, over New Jersey, if you're in New Jersey, don't stand underneath a hovering drone, because you're going to get radiation. It's like being in an atomic bomb explosion. Well, not quite, not quite, but you can easily get radiation sickness from it. In fact, a guy named Travis Taylor, a physicist I know, who was at Skinwalker Ranch, he actually got sick, and people up at Skinwalker Ranch got sick because they stood underneath this cloaked drone, or UFO, or whatever, and they got what's called the anti-gravity blue shift. So we understand all that. There are no mysteries to any of this phenomenon. So again, just to say it again, to make sure I understand it. So through the power of the consciousness, they're able to maneuver the craft using gravity. Well, it's a feedback loop, it's both. They're getting sensory data from their sensors. Okay, there's a dogfight. Here comes Commander Fravor, and Ryan Gray's in their F-18s, and they want to get into a dogfight with the Tic-Tac. So it's a combination between the data that's being... Yeah, they have sensors, right? So the sensors, and so the conscious artificial intelligence computer, I shouldn't even call it, it's the same conscious we have. We have very similar structures, by the way, what are called microtubules. All I have done, all I want to do is make artificial microtubules, and it turns out those M4 chips, those M3 Apple chips, they're already, they're metamaterials. Tell us briefly, what is a microtubule? A microtubule is, you have to go, microtubule, every living cell, at least in mammals, I'm not sure about plants, have what are called these microtubule structures. They control the DNA. They're little metasurfaces that are rolled up into tubes, like cables, but they're the artificial atoms, they're what are called protein diamonds, they're little switches. They're like computer cables with little transistors. They're like a corn cob, but the kernels of corn are like little switches. They're called protein diamonds. They're like little transistors. And we're cabled. Oh, in fact, if you take an electron microscope, in fact, this guy Stuart Hameroff, anesthesiologist, the first guy, he's the guy who said microtubules are where consciousness is generated. He was, in the 1980s, what he found was that what happens if you take an anesthetic, an anesthesia, the molecule of an anesthetic, and what it does, it goes, this is called a protein diamond. It's like the kernel of corn on a corn cob, okay? It's a switch, a little molecular switch. The molecule goes in and jams it. And that's how the anesthetic works, and you lose consciousness. So he says, you're losing consciousness because we stopped the transistors from switching on and off, right? But wait, so then he made an electron microscope picture of a microtubule, you know, in a cell, and he took it over to Intel, and the guys, the Intel chip guys, look, they said, what chip is that? It's not a chip. It's us. Yeah. All I'm saying is that the architecture of the Apple M3, M4 chips is almost identical in function and structure to our microtubules. So, you know, and the only reason we're conscious is because we have what's called the ATP. We have these molecular mechanisms for converting, you know, food metabolism into energy. So that's an energy pump. So all we have to do is externally pump those chips with the proper frequencies, depending on how they're built, you know, depending on the spacings between the atoms and stuff, and they'll emerge into consciousness is what I'm saying. Dr. Sarfati, thank you so much for your time. We want to continue next week to continue on this discussion. Thank you for your time. Thank you for watching another episode of Bay Area Innovators. If you enjoyed this episode and you know someone who should be on our show, please send us an email at sfbay at epochtimes.com. We would love to hear from you. Thank you and see you next week.