Lawsuit Appears Part of Broader Communist Campaign to Shut Us Down: Shen Yun | China in Focus

A global sensation, a relentless regime, and a lawsuit raising serious questions right here on American soil. New York-based Xinyun Performing Arts says a recent lawsuit against it appears to be part of a broader campaign to malign and shut it down. The Chinese Communist Party has tried to cancel Xinyun since it was founded in 2006. But despite the attacks, Xinyun tours the world performing for sellout audiences. NTD has been a proud media sponsor for years. Before and after the lawsuit, The New York Times ran negative articles about Xinyun. Xinyun calls the articles one-sided, deeply flawed, and says they have helped bolster the communist regime's efforts. The former dancer who filed the lawsuit is one of the primary sources for The New York Times' reporting. Xinyun says she was always very positive about her time there until a recent change of heart. So what's behind the lawsuit? To find out more, I sat down with Xinyun conductor and vice president Ying Chen and the executive director of the Falun Dafa Information Center, Levi Browdy. This is NTD and I'm Tiffany Meyer. Ying Chen and Levi Browdy, thank you so much for joining us. Good to have you here. Thank you. It's a pleasure. To begin, there has been a lawsuit filed against Xinyun that alleges that some children have faced very grueling environments while they were there in Xinyun. As the VP of Xinyun, how would you respond to this lawsuit? Very shocked. Very shocked indeed. I think it was back in June when we started to hear about some allegations in the Chinese social media world. But those were such nonsense that we didn't pay that much attention to it. But when The New York Times published a series of articles in August coming up with all sorts of gross distortion of what's happening at Xinyun, based on a handful of disgruntled former employees and their description of what happens in Xinyun is so different from our real lived experience there. And we feel deeply hurt. I remember at the time, a lot of our artists want to have a place to have their voices heard. So we created a website, xinyuncommunity.com, where you can go and see some photos and personal blogs and short videos about a lot of people. Just wanted to tell people how they appreciate, how they appreciate their Xinyun journey and what they've learned from the Feitian School. So it's just overwhelming. Everybody responded in a very overwhelming manner because we just wanted the world to know what's actually happening in Xinyun. Actually, I remember that day because they had called me to campus, because this article had come out. And we were sitting in the conference room, right? And it was one after another after another. There was this Xinyun artist coming, just absolutely baffled, hurt about what these articles were saying. What could we do? What could we do? And finally, we set up the room down the hall, right? Where someone said, well, let's put together a website so you guys can talk about it. It was just seeing the hurt on their faces. It was clear, they were confused and they were upset that these articles were depicting a world that they didn't recognize and certainly wasn't something they've grown to love. It was a very, very tough day. Given the very different experience that you just described all of these artists having in Xinyun, why do you think this former Xinyun dancer would file such a lawsuit? That is very baffling. In fact, as far as I know, after she left Xinyun, maybe a few months after she left Xinyun, she was still communicating with one of the professors, her former professors at Feitian School, saying how much she wanted to come back. Is there a way I can come back? She even bought a plane ticket. She wanted to just give it a try to come back. That is really telling that she appreciated how much she grew from there. She actually wrote that in some text, I believe, some messages that she thanked Xinyun for Feitian Schools that she attended, for everything that she's learned and how it prepared her for her future journeys. It's very shocking that suddenly around springtime this year, we started to hear that somebody was interviewing her on Chinese social media and starting to ask her questions. The way she answered just started to get worse and worse. In terms of how true it sounds from her real feeling about what our community is like. You've mentioned several times Feitian versus Xinyun. Describe to us the difference there and how maybe Feitian is then affiliated or associated with Xinyun. Thank you. It's very important actually to note that. This is something the New York Times articles continue to neglect to mention that both Feitian Academy of the Arts and Feitian College are accredited institutions that offer a standard education. But on top of their standard curriculum, they also study arts, music or dance. The Feitian Academy of the Arts holds an absolute charter from the New York State Board of Regents and Commission of Education and also registered with the New York State Department of Education. The Feitian College is accredited by the New England Commission of Higher Education, which is the same organization that accredits Harvard, Yale and other prestigious universities. We have a lot of artists from Xinyun that have trained from these schools and they both run on the flipped calendar, which means that their spring and summer semesters are the semesters where they study at the school full time. But during the winter months, just like most other schools' summer months, the students who qualify will participate on the tour with Xinyun. So it doesn't affect their study and during the touring months, they also have some study in time. But their required study is already done in the other two semesters. It's really interesting. I want to zoom in on that last part that you mentioned in terms of the Feitian students because this lawsuit specifically is talking about young people and how young people allegedly are treated badly here. So give us a sense. How are young people treated? We really take care of the young people and really, you know, give them, show them respect and care. My own nephew attends there and I think Levi's sons are two excellent dancers. And we, of course, we take good care of them. Otherwise, I wouldn't send, you know, we wouldn't send our family members there. And they really cherish that environment because our schools, well, first of all, Xinyun Performing Arts, as well as the Feitian schools, were founded by people who practice the faith of Falun Gong. So we are a religious community. And the school's educational philosophy is also rooted in tradition. And a key element of that is the value for hard work and, you know, personal, developing personal resilience. So a lot of our students really cherish the pure environment there. And actually, that's why they opt into the idea of coming to Feitian and with the full support of their parents because for the promise of building character, you know, in that environment, on top of having a chance to become world class in classical Chinese dance. And so it's many of them. I'm sure there are some people who find out that it's not for them, and they may decide to leave, which is fine. But the great majority of them will say that this is their dream come true. And their parents rave about the positive changes. I know Levi does that all the time. He's so proud of his sons. On that note, Levi, you know, your sons are there. A, why did you send them there? And then B, what has been the experience of your sons? What have they told you? Sure. I mean, I think as a parent, I'll just step inside, you know, step into that, put on that hat for a moment. I was extremely offended by this lawsuit. And I had a lot of these articles because the implication is that we as responsible, loving parents will send our kids to a place that even remotely resembles what they're talking about in the lawsuit and article, which is absolutely ridiculous. I'm a very hands on father. I've been reading for my kids every night, checking their homework every night. I was their baseball coach. I was very involved in their life throughout their young years. And so what's interesting also is that these schools, I didn't bring them there to dance. In fact, I had no interest in dance. They're kind of chubby baseball players, the good baseball players, but a little chubby. I didn't even care about dance. What I cared about is this epidemic of smartphones and social media and depression skyrocketing, suicidality skyrocketing in the school systems. I wanted a good school. That was the whole purpose. They then got in with friends, they got into dance, and then they tried out for Feitian and went through all that. But my initial search was just about the education event, just what Ying was talking about, how it is based in tradition and it works on educating not just the mind, but also the character. And that's exactly what I wanted. I wanted a curriculum that was going to do that and would sort of, you know, these are the, my father went to Deerfield Academy up in the Northeast and he tells me stories about what school was like back in the late 50s, 60s and what the headmaster would do and how everybody helped out. It didn't matter if you're parents, you came from a billionaire family. You were helping out in the kitchen. You know, you were sort of making, you were part of this group and you're going to make it work. And there was this work ethic, there was this community, there was this traditional approach to education that I loved. And that's why I sent them there. They came, became dancers later, but that was the purpose. So it's almost like when I look at these lawsuits and these articles, it's sort of like they're turning day into night and they're turning the actual virtue of this place and what makes it so great and trying to use that to incriminate them as if hard work and disciplined living and moral living along with rigorous academics and rigorous artistic endeavors is a bad thing. That's why we went there. And given the mischaracterizations, whether in the lawsuit or in these New York Times pieces that you brought up earlier, give us a sense, what does a day look like in a minor's life? You know, from the morning to the evening, what does it look like? Well, first of all, the way they exaggerated the involvement of minors is totally outrageous. On average, we have about 85 percent of the members who are part of the touring groups are adults. The other 15 percent are available. We made them available for young artists, talented artists who qualify to get a chance to perform at the world's best theaters and to really learn, you know, have this real life experience, which many professionals don't even get. You know, if you talk to some of them, Levi's kids, and how many world-class theaters they have already been to and how much they've matured and learned on stage alongside professionals, it's really a golden opportunity that people highly sought after, you know, and it's unheard of, you know, this kind of opportunity. So yeah, again, only 15 percent are young artists, and these artists are selected from the Feitian schools if they qualify. Again, their education is guaranteed, you know, outside of the winter months already. They've already done their core study, but they perform with Shen Yun. So right now, we're preparing for the new season, and they're starting to attend our rehearsals. At the same time, they're finishing their academic study. So yes, it depends on the group, but a typical day, maybe in the morning, they have their dance classes or have their academic classes. I think the musicians and dancers are reversed, right? The dancers have their academic classes in the afternoon, whereas the musicians have their academic, the young student musicians have their academic classes in the morning, and then in the other half of the day, they have some dance classes. So yeah, or for musicians, they may practice that on their own or attend some rehearsals. So it's really, I think they find it very fulfilling. It's a very fulfilling life. Yeah, so for my sons, they're in the dance program. So they, in the morning, they have a couple hours of dance training, which is great in the morning because especially my younger son would never get up before noon. So this is great, totally reversed that trend. So they have a few hours of dance in the morning. They go to lunch, and they have all their academics in the afternoon, and then go to dinner, and then, you know, evening is they might have a rehearsal or two, depending on if the tour is coming up, or a lot of times, they just have a lot of self-practice. You go into the dance halls, and that's where they hang out. You know, they're dancers, and so in the evenings, a lot of the times, they're in the dance training halls, you know, working on some just stuff personally, stretching, you know, listening to some music, hanging out with their friends. So those are the three main components, I think, at least from what I've seen from my sons. I want to zoom into that a bit more as well. So stepping back a bit, right, what is Falun Gong? Why is it such a threat, if you will, that you have this whole government apparatus, even an invented new apparatus? Sounds like it's almost extra legal to go after this group when there was a hundred million practicing in China at one point. So yeah, in the 1990s, Falun Gong was introduced in the beginning of the 1990s. It's a Buddhist-based spiritual practice involving exercises, meditation, and studying really Buddhist-based texts, primarily the principles of truthfulness, compassion, and forbearance. And people who take the book, study those principles, do the exercises, that's what it means to practice Falun Gong. This was widely popular in China. It was everywhere, 100 million people by the end of, by the turn of the century. And primarily because of that, the top leader of the CCP looked at this group and said it was so big. And also it was sort of a, it was kind of their renaissance. This was a resurgence of traditional Chinese spirituality that hadn't been allowed for decades under the communist regime. And so you see this group that is unprecedented in size, bringing back traditions that are from heartland China much more than anything else was in the country. And the top leaders said, squash it. And so for the last 25 years, there's been a horrific campaign with millions detained or imprisoned, hundreds of thousands being tortured, rampant examples of being tortured to death, forced organ harvesting, which is a whole topic in itself of the taking of Falun Gong practitioners and killing them for their organs. So this has all been going on for 25 years. Well, overseas during that time, Falun Gong communities and Falun Gong started organizations like Shen Yun have been a leading voice calling the CCP out on the crimes against Falun Gong, but also the broader crimes of the CCP to help people understand what is really this threat, not just to the Chinese people, but to the world. So talk to us about maybe this, the beginnings of Shen Yun, because you kind of touched on that right where it sounds like Shen Yun has a lot of ties, if you will, to Falun Gong practitioners. A lot of the dancers sounds like they practice and exposing mostly the crimes of the Chinese Communist Party. But you know, from an outside view, you're like, this is a dance company. Why target a group like that? So maybe lay out why there's those ties and then what Shen Yun's mission is here. Sure. I was born in the middle of the Cultural Revolution in China, and I received very little education about our cultural heritage when I was going to the elementary school and high school there. When I came to the US and studied Falun Gong and started to reconnect with my roots, that's when I realized, oh, I'm missing something here. But sadly, my experience is not alone. I will say most people in my generation really didn't appreciate traditional Chinese culture, and that just represented something that seems outdated and superstitious or feudalistic. Those are the labels that they slap on what traditional culture was about. So it was just not something we felt worthy to be cherished even. Of course, nobody would say that, but you just don't really care about it so much. But I think, actually, it's because of the persecution of Falun Gong, where my family in China experienced the persecution personally and many of our friends. That's when we started to really see the true nature of the communist regime. Honestly, when I came from China to the US, I didn't like it when people criticized China. I would say, what are you talking about? I was defending. But it was only after the persecution, and then we learned about the persecution that they've faced for many years, a lot longer than we did, the Uyghurs. Then we started to see more and more clearly the nature of that communist regime, and also realizing what we've lost. In order to instill Marxism into this whole nation of people, they have systematically eradicated our cultural heritage since they established the regime 70-some years ago. So we found the mission of reviving that culture. We started to recognize the beauty, the wisdom of that culture, and we wanted to revive it and share it with the world. I know it may sound a little grandiose, but we really resonate with the Embrace the Shenyuan's Mission, where we want to share with the world something full of hope and inspiration, and how the wonderful world can be without communism, how people can have real connection, be really united, and take good care of each other, and share the wisdom of our cultural heritage, and all of that, and to show it with the highest caliber in artistry. And that's what we thrive for. So Yingchen, you actually mentioned your own experience from the Cultural Revolution inside communist China to maybe coming into America, learning about ancient Chinese culture, but then also the persecution. Talk to us about that. Do you have your own experiences with the persecution that is happening in China? Yeah, my family experienced it personally. Both my parents were members of the Central Philharmonic Orchestra of China for 30-some years, so that was their entire career. They were among the best elite musicians in China, and highly accomplished musicians. They started to practice Falun Gong in 1995-96, and they actually introduced the practice to me. Even though in China they were highly respected, when the persecution started in China, they were also personally affected. The government started to make all kinds of, through the mass media, all kinds of crazy claims about Falun Gong. They were banning it, nobody can practice it anymore, and basically said a lot of lies, slapped a lot of lies on Falun Gong. So my parents decided to go to the Appeals Bureau in Beijing, which is the only channel, legal channel, for citizens to supposedly be able to voice their opinion. So they wanted to go there to tell their story, how they benefited from Falun Gong, what Falun Gong really is, what their experiences were. But when they went there, before they even got to the building, a couple blocks away, they were already hurled into a minivan. When somebody just came up to ask them, where are you going? And they said, we want to make appeals. And what is it for? About Falun Gong. Oh, come this way. And they just put them into a minivan and drove them away. They never even got to the building. And they were then sent to a detention center and detained there for 30 days alongside other criminals. And their only crime is their attempt to go to the Appeals Bureau to talk about their experience. But actually, it wasn't surprising, because before they even went there, they heard that this was the experience of some other Falun Gong practitioners. But they still felt like, this is my only legal way to do this, to have my voice heard. But that's the reality. Even though the Falun Gong, in our own experience, has been so beneficial to us, both mentally and in our health, and improved our relationship within the family and with our friends. And it's just been such a positive thing. It's the best thing that ever happened to us. So they felt that they have to speak up for it. However, they were detained. And after that, my mother was detained another time. It was just in the middle of the night. They were sleeping. I think it was maybe one o'clock in the evening. Suddenly, seven or eight people stormed their apartment in Beijing and ransacked, searched for Falun Gong material, and took my mother and my brother away to a detention center. My mom was again detained for 30 days. And my brother was, after that, sent to a labor camp, where he was tortured for 18 months. And on many occasions, he was on the brink of death. And initially, my parents were allowed to visit him once a month. And they just saw him getting thinner and thinner, and his hair growing gray. So every day, we were worried about what was happening to him. Because after a while, they actually denied visitation rights to my parents. And that's when you fear grow, what could be happening to him, because that's not a good sign. So afterwards, after he was finally released, after 18 months, we learned afterwards that he was tortured constantly. They used electric batons, multiple ones, not just one or two, the Falun Gong practitioners. And the guards there know that usually, other prisoners, they use one baton. And before they even touch the body, and they scare them, they will just say whatever the guards want them to say. They'll just say it. But with Falun Gong practitioners, we have faith and we have integrity. We try to hold on to our integrity, even in that kind of circumstance. So there are people who just refuse to lie about what Falun Gong is. And they started to use more and more batons on them. My brother witnessed other Falun Gong practitioners suffering from multiple batons, and he himself as well. And one time, a brother was severely injured. And in that condition, they stuffed him under a very low bed, maybe the height of that table. And for a normal person to be stuffed under there, you cannot even, you feel like your back is going to break. But they tied him up. They taped up his mouth and tied up his arms and folded him up, and then pushed under that bed, and then have somebody step on the bed. Another Falun Gong practitioner who went through the same thing actually became permanently paralyzed from that. Thankfully, my brother survived it. But at the time, he felt like he couldn't breathe. He was just trying, using any strength that he left to try to breathe. Yeah, it's just unspeakable, the kind of crimes that they did. And he was on one location, deprived of sleep for 15 straight days. They did not let him sleep. And if he tried to doze off a little bit, they'll start beating him. So that time, he also felt like his whole body stopped functioning after just several days. And it was really horrendous. But later on, thankfully, my brother and his wife managed to escape, and they got out of China in 2003. But some of his friends went through even worse. They were injected with drugs that made them crazy. And then you heard about the organ harvesting life practitioners to get their organs. It's just really, really terrible. Her brother's a very soft-spoken, sweet guy. I remember when shortly after he got out of China, he was describing that incident. And one of the things he described is that Falun Gong was this thing that he had learned. And fundamentally, he saw it as something that was trying to help him be a better person in any way, be a better husband, be a better son. And this little piece of goodness. And all these people were starting to shock him with these electric shocks. And all they wanted is for him to give this up. And I remember him saying, he was talking about that moment where he's like, I just want to have a little place in my heart where I can hold on to something that's good in this world. And all they want is to take that from me. I haven't done anything wrong. There was no other motivation than to try and torture me to let go of this one little thing. He called it a pure thing in his heart that he just wanted to hold on to that was his, and that was trying to help him be a better person. And that was one of the most distraught parts as he described it of that whole experience is that this whole torture was about that, stripping that thing in his heart, and making him give up his belief and give up his faith in humanity and life and just throw it all away. And that was just, it was such a heart-wrenching kind of exchange. I do want to zoom in on an issue that seems to pop up over, you know, various either hit pieces or the lawsuit where as you've both mentioned, right, this is a moral place. There's also very high caliber artists. There's a very demanding discipline. So it does seem, you know, sometimes in such a demanding discipline, people get injured and there's this narrative coming out that when they're injured, in terms of Xinyuan, they're not allowed to get medical treatment. I think the lawsuit says they were just told to go and meditate. So speak to us about what that's about. That's totally false. You know, think about it. Our dancers are one of our biggest assets. You know, how can we not do our very best to protect them? You know, so when they get injured, of course, it's up to them. Some of them may be, oh, it's not that big a deal. I can just meditate or, you know, get my strength back. Some of them may want to get it checked out, they have access to Northern Medical Center and another doctor who comes to visit and give them even training on nutrition and training on how to prevent injuries and give them treatments regularly. So all of those are, you know, are accessible to them. And it's actually not funny that before the last series of New York Times article came out, one of their questions to us before publication was about medical treatment. And we responded that, would you like to interview some of our artists who have, you know, such experience for you? Nope. They just published the article right away without ever getting back to us on those answers. And we told them in our response that we can provide evidence if you want. And if you want to interview some of them, you can do that too. But never heard from them on that again. I think it was interesting when the article first came out, one of the first people I talked to is one of the doctors. And he said his staff were reading the paper, the article, when it came out, he said, this is ridiculous. We just had three Xenian dancers in this office last month. You know, so I mean, dancers like professional athletes, they have minor aches and pains. They've got serious stuff like ACL tears or tearing their Achilles. And, you know, if you just look at the dancers, they all get treated for this kind of stuff. But again, I think this is where I think that's, I think, particularly sinister about the New York Times articles is they take real life, which is nuanced, and they try and just cherry pick the negative stuff. And they're clearly going after a hit piece. And when I say nuance, it's like, like, what's the most famous game Michael Jordan is known for? The flu game. He's got a temperature of 102. And he goes out and because he's a champion, and he's at the height of his, his game, he wants to win that that particular playoff game. And he goes and he plays with a flu. There is, like with any high performing organization, sure, there's going to be some dancers that are like, my knee hurts, or my back hurts, but I'm going to go out there and do it anyway. And you see that across ballet, it's not just Xenian, it's ballet, it's professional sports. So there's some of that. But if someone ever gets hurt, that they need medical attention, they go get it. So again, that's real life. And what's what I find particularly, almost offensive about these New York Times articles is they forget about sort of all the nuance. And let's just pick this one narrow thing and try to create a narrative that not only do they not get treatment, but they're discouraged from getting treatment, which is exactly the opposite of what you see at Xenia. And I think you touched on this earlier, at least when it comes to minors, right, there have the academic balance with the training for dance, or maybe orchestra, if they're in that, when it comes to, you know, those professional dancers, do they have their academic suffering? How do you balance that? We really want to make sure that they get their academics finished. And I, you know, they actually heard that they achieved pretty well, pretty good SAT scores, just, I think it was yesterday that some of some students were taking tests and, and they're doing well. So we really want to make sure that they get the adequate education. And, and that's what we prize ourselves about our schools about is that they not only get a standard education, but on top of that, they get to be trained to be a world class artist. So that is very important. And for some students, if they're not too interested in academics, and we, we drilled into them, no, you need to be good in both. Again, this is another part that I think is very ridiculous. It's, it's, I graduated high school at the top of my class, both my boys got higher SAT scores than I did. And they spend all this time dancing and training, doing all these other things, and they still outdid me. And so I think this is sort of speaks to kind of like, okay, there's a lot of, you can say all you want, you can make all the rumors you want, but you got to look at the cold hard facts. And one of the cold hard facts of academics is SAT scores. And if you look at the SAT scores at the school is way above the New York state average, these guys are just performing well, they're performing well and academically, and it's undeniable. So this is again, one of those parts where I think they're picking, you know, it's an art school, so they're taking a track of trying to downplay the academics. And, you know, sure, you're going to have people at an art school with that's their passion, and they're not terribly interested in math and history. That's what they're there for. That's great. That should be applauded. But to then incriminate the entire academic program of the school is nonsense. And I think, again, look at the test scores, they speak for themselves. Now, in terms of, you know, some of these New York Times pieces, they paint this picture, if you will, that these children are, you know, once they're in Shen Yun, once they're here, they're separated from their parents, maybe some of them don't speak that much English, their cell phones are taken from them. It's this very oppressive sounding environment. They're not allowed to leave, you know, they're kind of stuck in this area. You're a parent, your kids are there, speak to us about, you know, are you allowed to talk to your sons? Too much. I wish they wouldn't call as much. It sounds like they have their cell phones. I mean, again, this was sort of like this is a very strange take and a strange aspect of the New York Times articles where they took, for example, they mentioned that Internet is restrictive on campus. Hello. What campus in this day and age doesn't restrict to some extent the Internet? If you've got under, especially underage kids at a school, they better be restricting the Internet. There's all kinds of trash out there. And they are also talking about, oh, well, they're not freely allowed to leave campus. Welcome to a boarding school. Again, anywhere in America, what boarding school would allow a kid to just get up and walk off campus to do whatever they want? So these are very normal. Procedural things that you have in boarding schools, and they try and twist it and demonize it into something that is abnormal. So it's completely the opposite. Now, how is Faitian different? Certainly they were different, or at least they were much earlier on the cell phone social media issue. No smartphones, no social media on campus. If you're under 18, if you're a student at the school, I 100 percent agree with it. In fact, that's one of the reasons I chose this school. And I wanted to go there is because I remember sitting with my boys and all their friends before. This is before we came to Faitian a year or two ago. And they had all the friends over and they're all sitting in a row, like 10 of them. And they're all sitting there looking at their phones and they're at the house, apparently supposed to hang out and play. And this is what they're doing. I think society at large, certainly in America, certainly our educational system has been 10 years behind the curve on the harm and damage done by social media and smartphones. It has absolutely decimated the whole generation. And they're starting to wake up like that. Even the Department of Education in New York and California are starting to say, hey, let's ban cell phones from the classroom. Faitian has been doing that since the beginning. And I applaud them for it. It was a great move. The New York Times doesn't talk about all that. They just sort of try and portray it as some sort of weird kind of restriction thing. And also they don't mention, guess what? All of the young students, it's not like they don't have a phone. The school issues them a smartphone that's locked down. They can't go just go anywhere on the internet, but they can text anybody, including me. They can call anybody, including me, whenever they want. So this is a whole area which was quite underhanded in those articles on taking normal things or healthy things and trying to portray them as draconian or somehow dark and weird. Yeah. And the students, if I could just add to that, the students really built real relationships. They interact with face-to-face people day in, day out, and learn face-to-face with their teacher and develop this sisterhood, brotherhood, and do all kinds of activities together, play ball together, and dance together, play music together, all face-to-face. Put the phone aside. It's really healthy and very great. And every week, they have their time off and they go home. They see their parents, enjoy some great meals at home. So of course, if their parents are in Taiwan, they cannot fly back to Taiwan every week. So yes, they get to see their parents less, but it doesn't mean they cannot call them. So all of that is exaggerated, even the fact that we have guards at the gate. And that, again, because of the CCP's interference and trying to cause damage. We haven't talked about all the tire slashing and bomb threats and all sorts of crazy things that they've tried to do to threaten us. So yes, we have guards at the gate to safeguard all of us. If your children's there, wouldn't you want to make sure that they're safe? In fact, the Times described the campus where Shen Yun is and where Fei Tian, they share a campus, a physical campus. They describe it in the first article as compound. If you look at the definition of that, it essentially means there needs to be a wall all the way around it. There's no wall. You walk out the door of Fei Tian and go any direction and you're in the woods and you've got these beautiful walking paths. In fact, we pointed that out to them and that was the one thing I think that they realized and they've stopped using that word. No, I think I still see that word recently. So it's absolutely ridiculous to just sort of, again, it's trying to, they're using words and sort of narratives to try and paint this place as some sort of dark enclave and it is anything but. On that note, I do want to get into another dark area, if you will, that's being painted here where we've established it's a boarding school. A lot of children go here and then they're talking about the amount of pay they get you. I think you touched on this earlier, Ying Chen, but explain to us, you know, at least the lawsuit is talking about minors again, that they're being underpaid, almost exploited, if you will, by Shen Yun or even the college, almost sounding like child labor. Explain to us what's happening here and especially when it comes to paying them, how does that play out? Okay, I think we've explained this to the New York Times reporters multiple times, over and over again, but they just keep ignoring it. At the Fei Tian school, both schools, every student receives a full scholarship which includes room and board and it amounts to about $50,000 a year and if they get to participate in the tour, all the expenses are covered, including high quality hotels, meals, and even most recreational activities and clothes, you know, they get a lot of clothes as well, and so it's really their expenses are at a minimum. On top of that, they receive, you know, the standard education on top of the artistic training, so they really are, you know, getting a lot. Now, because of their students, and the Fei Tian school actually has an arrangement with the Shen Yun Performing Arts to have a practicum program where they can allow students who meet the standards to tour with Shen Yun, so Shen Yun has this arrangement with them and every year, selected students get to perform with Shen Yun, so the practicum program are basically part of their coursework, they receive credits for that, and they're not employees, they don't receive a pay, but they do get some stipend, you know, I think that most, if not all of them receive a stipend to help them with additional expenses, you know, related to their studies, so it's really a tremendous program, you know, to get all of your tuition waived and get this kind of opportunity, so many people really want to send their kids, you know, to the Fei Tian schools, but the New York Times, however, not only did they ignore our explanation, they keep in their article, they intentionally conflate examples across categories of child labor, young performer versus adult, you know, employees, and they talk about this, and then suddenly they talk about another example that's actually a young adult, and then they're talking about minors again, to create this impression that, oh, you know, these minors are working some grueling schedules. And I think there's a real selection, like treating Shen Yun differently and Fei Tian differently, I mean, you know, I know there's been some changes to the NCAA rules last year or two, but by and large, if you look at the athletic world, you get a full scholarship to play football for Ohio State, you're not getting paid, but you are getting a full scholarship, and if you're good enough, hey, that's the best way to go to the NBA. These people, the students here, are not only getting this tremendous experience, I mean, I get calls and texts, suddenly my son's in Prague, and then he's in Paris, and he's doing all this, he's on the French Riviera, I mean, they're having experiences that are amazing, and yet, they're trying to apply a sort of a weird, they're trying to apply a labor standard, and I think they're not, it's an unfair standard, because again, if you're a student, and you're on full scholarship, and even the activity you're doing, whether it's football or baseball, is leading to a career there, that's something we've accepted and been fine with for more than 100 years, or if you look at the Olympic training program, you know, was Michael Phelps being paid when he was 13, and getting up at 6 in the morning to do his training, and become Olympic swimmer, that's not the point, and the reason they do that is, their bottom line narrative is, they're trying to paint Shen Yun as like some strange money-making machine, and they're completely missing the entire point of the whole organization, and the heart of people there, and why they're there, and that, I think, is one of the most deceiving things, and I think one of the things I hope everybody who reads the New York Times articles does, is go to the Shen Yun Creations website, because one of the things you can see, is you just, after every show, people come out of the theater, and they just, there's like media there, and they just talk about what they saw, they just, what their experience, and by the thousands, people are like crying, people are like, that was an amazing experience, that was transformative, I didn't know humans are so capable of such compassion and love, and they're like going out into the world, sort of transfixed that way, that's why people do what they do at Shen Yun, and it's not easy, and it requires a lot of hard work, but that's, I think, why people go there, people like Ying, her whole family, my boys, and they're so, and they're so transfixed with that mission, I think that's one of the real tragedies of the New York Times piece, is not only is that omitted, but they're trying to turn that around, and say it's the exact opposite of what the heart and soul of the organization is really about. And given this grandiose mission, and you know, the personal stakes so many people have in it, especially in Shen Yun, when it comes to, you know, the hippies by the New York Times, this latest lawsuit, or even, you know, the physical threats that you have faced on tour, whether that's the slashing of the tires on the buses, this is even on other continents, how is Shen Yun going to face all of these challenges? I think we want to do even better. I think it makes us even more determined. Yeah, I think, of course, throughout the years, we've continued to make things better and better for our artists, and we'll continue to do that, take care, take good care of each other, encourage each other on this path, and I think, because obviously the world wants to really welcome Shen Yun, want to see Shen Yun, so we want, we strive to do a better, you know, every year we will try to make it even better for our audience members. And with all that's been laid out, you know, especially if someone's listening to this, and they're curious about Shen Yun, you know, when does the next tour start, where can they watch that, and what can they expect to see in a Shen Yun performance? Our tour is starting at the end of December, and I think four of our groups are actually going to Europe, one is going to Asia, we have a brand new show just like every year, yeah, and, but I want to keep the details as a surprise, as before, but I think this year's show is only better than before, in previous years. Well, in terms of just very quickly, right, because I see on the websites and stuff, there's often information, these are handmade costumes, they're very historically accurate, so that's quite beautiful in its own aspect, there's of course the dance form, classical Chinese dance, it's this whole thing, there's also a live orchestra that combines both Eastern and Western, and then I think you also have a special patented backdrop that's interactive or something, so it sounds like almost there's something for everyone, I think I'm doing your selling points now. Yeah, that's very good. But just like as an example, it sounds like there's a lot to expect in one of these performances. Yeah, I think for people who first see Shen Yun, they're absolutely overwhelmed, what do I look at, there's so many things to pay attention to, and the music is of course, you know, a crucial part of that, we have a special blend of Western and Chinese instruments, and the music is also all original, every year, written specifically for all of the dances, every single one of those dances, that's also choreographed every year, and that's something I think very unusual or rarely accomplished in any other performing arts company, and yeah, and if you've been to Shen Yun's show, you know how spectacular the costumes are, and we're not just talking about one set of costumes, but for our 16 or so dances, each one of them gets a whole different set of costumes, and handmade, and yeah, just really gorgeous, and it's like a fashion show on its own, and many people are also wowed by the interactive background that blends with the stage, and seem to, you know, you see the people going in and out of the stage, and it just basically extends the stage infinitely, and take you into different time periods, different scenes, and different, yeah, regions of China, so it's a really great cultural journey. Yeah, I think it's interesting when you see Shen Yun on stage, like a lot of people are like, what's the secret, what's the secret? Right. I think one of the secrets I've learned is that it's not really acting. Normally you go see a show, and you might see a character, and who's that person in real life? They go home, they start drinking beers, who knows what they're doing. With the Shen Yun folks, it's not really an act. They're trying to portray the morals and principles of traditional China, compassion, loyalty, all these things. It's not an act. They actually are working moment to moment via their Falun Gong spiritual practice, the culture of the company, to actually embody that, to be those things, and I think that's one of the things that the audience feels, and that's why people have such a visceral reaction to Shen Yun is because it's real. It's not an act. Yeah, I think a lot of people ask me, how can they become that synchronized on stage? How is that possible? Yeah, even our orchestra, our ensemble is just extraordinary, you know, and people really wonder about that, and you think that can be achieved by threats, by ongoing threats. And not treating injuries. Yeah, coercion and abuse. Yeah, whatever words that they're using. No, it comes from the inside because they understand they are not only, you can see that every single one of those dancers on stage, they're excellent by themselves. Everyone can be a solo dancer, but when they're together, they know how to work with other people in perfect teamwork. That takes not just self-discipline, but also, I think, respect for other people, right? And keeping the big picture in mind, definitely resilience. I've told the teachers frequently at VTN, you know, I ran a software company in New York City here for about 20 years, and in a heartbeat, I'd hire graduates of the dance program before I'd hire computer science graduates at John Hopson's or something. You can teach someone to code, you know, you can teach someone that, but having a team member who is moral, who's upright, who doesn't try and kiss your butt because you're the boss, who tells you what you need to know, who calls out a problem if he sees it, all these characters, those are the types of people you can build a team and a company around. I was like, I'd go there and hire before I'd go to the science schools. Well, this has definitely been a very inspiring interview, so Ying Chen and Levi Braude, thank you both so much for your time. Thank you very much.