Jenna Ortega & Elle Fanning | Actors on Actors

A lot of our crew members were English, and they told me that I had the humor of like a 50-year-old taxi driver in Leeds. Which I hold very near and dear to my heart. But also, people are a lot scarier when they're still. And because I think that I... I look like a pug or something. Like I just got like a little... Hello, Jenna. How are you? I am good. I don't think people... I don't know, they might think that we know each other, but we have never met before. Never, which I'm kind of surprised. I know. I feel like we tend to be in the same... or worked with similar people. Yeah, 100%. I know, I'm so... when I heard that I was getting paired up with you, I was so excited. Yeah, I was very excited. I have to... before I forget, because otherwise I'll be remiss. Yeah. But when I was younger, I told my mom the only reason why I'm acting is because I said I wanted to be the Puerto Rican Dakota Fanning. And so we were obsessed with Dakota's work and we were following, we were following. And then she said, did you know she has a sister? And I was like, she has a sister? So for the longest time, I idolized the both of you guys. And I would follow your careers because I wanted to be in your guys' shoes. You guys were like this enigmatic, super glorious, talented, you know, figures in my head. And then it's just really, really strange to be here. Oh my God. With you guys. Oh man. It's really, really special. Thank you so much. Wow. I got to tell Dakota. She'll love it. Yeah, no, I'm so happy to be here with you. I know that you've been acting, you know, since you were a child after, right? So we definitely have that in common and I think just... You were a fetus. Right. You were like two years old. That's right. We're just the same. I was very small. I guess it's interesting because there are kind of certain milestones. Because, of course, you're getting older in your life. But as an actor that like, oh, I hit a milestone and you feel yourself growing or maybe people start to view you in a more grown-up way or a different... Did you feel like you had that? I mean, we're both still very young, but do you feel like you had that growing out of... Because people saw you when you were like nine years old, you know? A little bit. And then also I think I naturally appear and sound a bit younger than I am. I think I have like a little bit of a baby face. So I tend to do younger roles or characters, definitely. That was a little bit hard. And then I also did a little time on Disney Channel as well. So I was also doing children-oriented work, which I think breaking out of that is its own, you know, challenge and journey in itself. But I did a movie a couple of years ago where it was a horror film and I went from like super conservative Christian girl turned adult film star. And I think that that was a little bit of a turning point. Was that X? That was X. Yeah, I saw X. Oh, no way. Yeah, yeah, I loved X. That was incredible. Ty West, the director, is just... He's one of my favorite directors I've ever worked with. Just very, very assertive and brilliant and collaborative. But I think that that was a huge turning point for me. Turning point, yeah. What about for you? Gosh. Yeah, mine's kind of similar too because it kind of maybe was a more horror genre. Yeah. Which you're definitely... Yeah, I did a lot of that. That's you, yeah. The it girl of horror. I don't know how you feel about that. I would never call myself something like that. Do you like horror movies? I love. Horror is home. Really? Yeah, people really like to see me hysterical. Do you have a good scream? I wouldn't even say I have a good scream but it's just very instinctive and I think I have a really ugly crying face which people just beat on. If you're in a theater and you see someone who looks atrocious while crying, you think, oh man, she's really in it. Are you a good auditioner? I'm a terrible auditioner. Oh, God, I'm awful. Awful. Yeah, I'm not a good auditioner at all. I fainted in an audition once. How old were you? I think I was like 12. Yeah, but I got like Pinkberry and Burger King afterwards. So I was like, oh, this is great. Didn't get the job. They were like this freaky girl who's like fainting. No. But they make me so nervous. It made me really nervous. I had really awful experiences with like screaming and things like that. The first time I ever had to scream for an audition, we were driving on the way there and it was like a three-hour drive from the Coachella Valley. So my mom was saying, hey, do you want to practice that scream? And I told her, I got it, I got it. I went in there, did not have it. My voice cracked. It was awful, embarrassing. And she looked back at me and she was so frustrated because she was sacrificing so much for me to be out there. I felt awful. She was like, Jenna, how are you going to be an actress if you can't even scream? And then it's just weird that that's been- And then ever since, like I take my vengeance. I think it's part of it. I'm very, very stubborn. So I think as soon as that was an issue. But I've never fainted. Have you been yelled at by a casting director? No. Never been yelled at? I apologize too much. They yelled at you for saying you're sorry? Yeah, because I just kept cutting off my monologue. Oh, I'm sorry, I messed it up. Oh, I'm sorry. They were like, stop apologizing. You're good. And I said, oh, I'm sorry. And she said, stop. Like, you're good. Don't worry about it anymore. Yeah, you can't apologize for anything. I did get the job, though. I don't remember which one it was. Oh. Not too bad. You've stayed in LA and kind of been a part of that world all your life. Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I started acting from such a young age. And obviously, my sister, I had her as a role model, a built-in person to look up to. Did you go to public school? What was the normality in it? So I was homeschooled up until fourth grade. And then at nine years old, I was like, mom, I have no friends. I need to be around kids. And she's like, all right, let's put you into school. So then I got to go to a private school here in LA. Nice. And I got to go to proms and parties and, like, have that whole experience, which I'm really happy that I got to do that. So, yeah, from fourth grade to senior year, I did not go to college. Neither did I. Yeah. I really wanted to. You did? I tried for a minute. I was always told that, you know, as soon as the ball is rolling, especially in an industry like this that is so up and down, you just never know when a job is going to be your last job or when you're in and when you're out. And I think I was just working too much. I was too scared. Which, as I've gotten older, I feel like, especially trying to make a name for yourself in the industry, I put a lot of pressure on myself. I'm definitely an overthinker. But, yeah, as I've gotten older, I've realized that you can create space and time for your personal life and have real experiences. And I feel like that's something that I still have to learn. Do you feel like you're good at balancing? I think I'm still learning, too. It's hard. Especially, well, when you're on these shows. I mean, we've got to talk about Wednesday because it's, like, so good. It is so good. And you are absolute perfection. Like, there is not a single word physicality that's, like, out of place. And it's also so exciting to have a new Wednesday because I always think of Christina Ricci. Yeah, so do I. You know? And did she give you any advice or anything, like, on set? Like, how cool is that? No, it was almost a bit awkward. It's a bit strange meeting someone where you're kind of doing cosplay or a version of them 30 years ago. So, to be dressed in front of her and, obviously, I think that she did the perfect Wednesday. It was, like, the perfect age. I'm very, very impressed by her 11-year-old self and everything that she's continued to do onward. So, also, just naturally having so much respect and admiration for her as an actress. I was very, very nervous. And I don't think she really wanted to give me too much input. And I didn't want to ask for input because it was really, really important to me that I didn't try to knock off her performance because it was already so perfectly done. If anything, that's kind of embarrassing on my part, and I feel like it's kind of my job. Especially, it's such a different time now. It was 30 years ago to kind of integrate more modern ideas or more modern take on a character so that she continues to be timeless and appeal to a new audience. But then still weave in nostalgic, you know, throwbacks to her role and her character. I love the snap. Yay. Oh, that was cool. That was really sweet. Yeah, I thought it was cool they integrated that into the story. That boy's family was going to file attempted murder charges. How would that have looked on your record? Terrible. Everyone would know I failed to get the job done. I'm awful with accents. I can never be a British queen. If you had a good dialect coach, which I do, she helps me. You are so, so, so funny in your show. I was not anticipating. I went into it completely blind. So it was just a lot more violent than I expected. But then also I love comedy that isn't addressed too much and it's almost kind of just chaotic and you're not able to process what's going on, which is entirely what your show is about. But you yourself are so stoic and strong and just funny. For me personally, comedic acting is a lot more difficult than something dramatic. I know. I agree. I don't think I ever realized that because I didn't really do a lot of comedic things before The Great. Yeah, my roles were probably more dramatic. And then through The Great, I actually learned really how difficult it was and how kind of unembarrassed you have to feel with yourself to just go there. And I think with the cast, their background, a lot of it is they're from theater, so they're so gifted dramatically and comedically. But they were all really there to help me along with the rhythm of it. Also on Wednesday, too, there are such specific jokes, especially very deadpan jokes that you have to hit and there's a punchline there. I don't know because sometimes I would read scripts and in The Great you're like, oh, that's a punchline. That's a joke. I want people to laugh at that moment. I hope they do, but it's a real – people who are so gifted and talented at that, I envy it. But I think I've gotten a little more comfortable in the comedy world now that we're on season three. Your outfits are also ridiculous. I would never, ever feel – have you done period pieces? Well, yeah, the Coppola film. Yeah, that's right. That was Civil War, so it was a little different, but still corsets. Yeah. Have you ever worn a corset in a film? No, only in my casual life. Yeah, casual life. In my personal life, yeah. I do love a corset, I have to say. But never for set and that's not even just a corset. It's every layer. Actually, in Wednesday, there was one outfit that I had to wear that was corseted. Was it a prom dress? No. No, I was playing an ancestor or someone to Hollywood Goody and she was from Pilgrim Times. Right. And that was so annoying to get into and took forever. But it was great once it was on because it looked insane. Yeah. I know clothes, I think, they play such a – they're important to me and costume and the design especially. I'm sure Tim Burton was very specific with that, right? Did Colleen Atwood do it? Yes, she did. Yeah, Colleen Atwood is incredible. That was definitely one of the highlights of the job in terms of just watching someone that gifted at what they do work was such an honor. And I completely agree with you. A good set of wardrobe completely changes the way that you can perceive a character, in my opinion. I tend to get a lot more creative or have a lot more ideas when you're working with clothes that you feel comfortable or right for the character and Colleen is a master at that. How did you – I'm so curious about your physicality as Wednesday. How did you come up with that? Because you're very – you don't blink much. Yeah. And you also are like – there's a real – you know, which you're not like – I mean, you know, it's a character. I think I'm kind of sneaky. I guess it's a little spidery or something to her that very rigid. Like was that talked about or did Tim want that or did you – like how did that come about? It wasn't talked about, but I'm sure that you run into it a lot. Oftentimes teenage girls are just rats or for some reason super against the world and just nasty and it's great for Wednesday because that's what she is and it's fun and she's just excited by, you know, evil things. Yeah. But I needed something that was going to differentiate her from past iterations, but then also just from other characters that I do. I want everything that I do to kind of stand out or to feel like maybe certain characters that I play wouldn't get along or are different people. So I think for me, physicality, that was something that I had never really played with before. And because I never experimented with deadpan humor before or anything like that, I think that there's something – God, you're so good at it. That's crazy. I don't know. Do you feel like your humor is like that in real life? My humor in real life is very deadpan. Is it? Very, very dry. People never know whether I'm being serious or not. It's kind of English. Yeah. Well, a lot of our crew members were English and they told me that I had the humor of like a 50-year-old taxi driver in Leeds. Which I hold very near and dear to my heart. But performing it and then also have it take place in a teen drama, romantic setting, it was very, very foreign and different for Wednesday, which is the great thing about the characters. You put her in the most absurd situations and it's going to be funny because she just doesn't belong. But, yeah, making that work, I was really, really nervous about that. But also people are a lot scarier when they're still. Because I think that I look like a pug or something. What? I just got a little – I don't know what it is. I was like, oh, what could make me more intimidating or more weird? And I'm like, I just should never move and stare at people really intensely. Maybe that would work. So I used to walk my dog down the street or just, you know, at night when people weren't paying attention, I would just try different postures and stances and are my hands cleansed or are they free, you know, and I would film myself. Oh, wow. That's really – oh, wow. That's cool. When you were talking about kind of the stillness, The Neon Demon was a film I did when I was like 16, which also kind of felt like a film that kind of pulled me out of child star a little bit. Like I felt like that was a turning point for me and people seeing me more in a grown-up way because the film was so kind of polarizing, which I loved. Like people either hated it or they loved it and it was very out there, but it was an amazing experience. But there's an opening shot in the movie and I have to – I'm like playing dead and I have contacts so I can – like I've never lost a staring contest ever. Whoa. Because I think it's my – something about the contacts holds the moisture in my eye. I don't know what it is, but when I did that take and Nick Reffin is the director of Neon Demon and he takes really long takes. I think it was like 11 minutes or something and my eyes were open the entire time and the lights were so bright and they melted my contacts all over my eye. Like they burned into my eye because I kept them open for so long. Did that hurt? It didn't. It was odd. I think because I got off set and then I was like, oh, God, I can't see. I thought that I was blind. Yeah, I thought I went blind because I was like, I can't see, I can't see, and I was like really freaking out. And then I think because I was like, where's my contact? I thought that they had like gone away and I couldn't see anything. But then we're like flushing water and finally I like fished it out and it was all melted and crazy. Just an anecdote. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, you, I would never, I don't even come close. Do you wear contacts? No. No, I don't. And the whole staring thing, you blink on other people's lines. I wasn't properly doing anything like that. No. They're usually a quad kind of girl, but I've been working on that all week. Birthday, yes. Happy, never. So your show takes place in Russia. Do you actually shoot in Russia? We do not. We shoot actually in London, which is really nice. That is so nice. Yes. I've always wanted to shoot there. Yeah, it's like my favorite city. I feel like if I don't end up living in LA, I want to live in London, which I get to for like six, seven months out of the year, so I'm lucky. Yeah, it's a long shoot. Yeah, it is. How long does yours shoot for? I think we went seven, eight months. Yeah. And that was in Romania. Wow. Did you guys take over the town? No. I don't know, it's such a big city and I have a lot of friends there and things, but in Romania, I'm like, did you have a lot of friends there? No, I didn't know any Romanians going into it, so I think, honestly, I'm so, so fortunate because the cast that I was set with are some of my favorite people I've ever met on this planet, so I think that we were very supportive and beneficial to each other during that time. I couldn't imagine doing it without them. Yeah. But, yeah, did not know anyone in Romania. It was in the middle of the pandemic. It was a red zone country, so some people weren't allowed to leave because you couldn't travel in and out of certain regions in Europe. Everything closed at 5, 6 p.m. because of the pandemic, so it was pretty much just set and then home, and then if we wanted to hang out with each other on the weekends, if we had the time, we would go to Georgie Farmer's apartment. He plays Ajax on the show and he just had the coolest Airbnb, so we just would hang out there and play cards and things like that. There you go. Yeah. You do what you can. I don't know, the hours in the day, it does kind of take over your life. Yeah, in comparison to film, it's absolutely insane. I agree. You really build a family in a different aspect, and you do have no life for a little bit. Do you know if a lot of the same crew members are going to come back for next season? I know you're a producer next season. I am a producer, yeah. What made you want to kind of step into that role? This is my first time producing a television series, so I was pretty excited about that. I think for us on our show, it's pretty much a natural progression just because we had already been throwing out so many ideas, and I'm somebody who's very hands-on and I want to know what's going on, and I think with a character like Wednesday, who is so beloved and is such a legend, I just really didn't want to get her wrong, so I think I try to have as many conversations as possible and really on set with the writers and Tim, we just all kind of would get together and decide. We'd go through sides in the morning and decide, okay, what works and what doesn't. Yeah, it was naturally already very collaborative, so I think that in preparation for a second season, we kind of wanted to get ahead of the curve and make sure that we could start the conversations earlier, and I'm just so curious. I want to see the outfits, new characters that are coming in, scripts, and yeah, they were gracious enough and cool enough to let me put the producer hat on, which I'm really excited about. As they should. Yeah, but you, on your show, this is your first time producing a television series. Yes, it was, yes. Gosh, because the first season we did the pilot, we filmed it when I was 20, and now I'm 25, so I'm like this part has been, she's formed my whole 20s. I don't know, it's just like this character is in such formative years of my life, I feel like I've grown up through her and learned so much through playing her as well, but also I think the producing side of that, just learning the behind-the-scenes mechanics of it all, because I think, I don't know if you felt like this, but I think when you're, you start acting young, and maybe not for everyone, but for me at least, I think you start to realize, oh, I want to kind of have more agency in this, and I want to have more say, and I think a lot of actors that I've talked to as well, the advice is always to produce your own work, go out there, find a book you love, find an article you love, and you can make that. You are able to make that, because this business, the one thing that I just hate about it is that it's, sometimes it's other people telling you who you are and what you can do, and it's so unfair. It irks me that they want to put people in these boxes. So I think for myself, I'm like, I'm going to produce my own material and have more say, and I think even through each season, I've grown so much with my voice and opinions of really saying how I feel, because I guess for a long time too, I felt like, oh gosh, I'm young, I should listen to the adults. But then when you think about it, you're like, oh, we've been acting for a very long time, and we've been on a lot of sets from a very young age, and we're allowed to have those opinions, and we do know what we're talking about. We really do. And so I've learned to kind of assert myself. So I would say don't be afraid to assert yourself. It's definitely something that I'm learning now, and I think that that's why someone like Wednesday is someone who kind of forced me out of my shell in that sense. And especially, I don't know if it's, again, I'm pretty short and I'm pretty young, but then also just being a young woman in the industry, I feel like sometimes people don't take you as seriously or as open to the conversation. I've had insane conversations with people in terms of, you know, I just stand my place, and I don't know because I'm not this or that. You know, I'm just an actor. So I definitely agree with you in terms of, you know, having experiences or having seen it happen to other people where you kind of become a puppet in some sort of sense. But the most beautiful experiences that I've had on a job or the jobs that I'm most proud of have always been the ones where everyone's voice is heard, everyone pitches in, everyone, and yeah, with your experience. And you could be wrong, too. Like, that's the thing. 100%. Some ideas land, and sometimes they don't. But it's great if, you know, we have the time or we're in the space now to explore as much as we possibly can. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, with the whole producing thing, it's exciting but nerve-wracking at the same time because, first of all, it's so nice, you know, having, oh, well, Jenna, you have the floor, and you have this, and, you know, it's just kind of, I feel like almost like a kid in a candy store in a sense. But at the same time, I'm in the phase where I'm still sending the wrong email to, like, three different people. Yeah. What am I supposed to be here? Yeah. Definitely finding your footing, but it's a good place to be. I love the whole editing process. Oh, I haven't even considered that. You have to get involved. So they send you dailies every day and things like that? I've never been sent dailies before. It's so fun. It is so fun. I'm like, I would love to be an editor. I don't know, but I at least get to... Can you watch yourself? I can. Okay. Has it always been that way? It's always been that way. I think I was such a ham, like, growing up when I was little. Like, I just loved watching myself. Like, and then it's gotten, sometimes, I think as I've gotten older, it's gotten, I judge myself a little bit more than I used to. Because when you're a kid, you're just like, oh, I'm on a huge screen, and I'm like a little kid, and it was like a home movie or something. But, yeah, I start to judge myself a little bit more. But I can, I can separate weirdly. Yeah. But it's not even just about me. I think it's watching, you know, the first cut of the first episode, and watching that, and thinking, hmm, do we need this scene? We can, you know, looking at all the dailies and picking the right lines, and I find that really fun. It always kind of helps you, take you out of your head. Yeah. Because it's a lot more objective in that sense. Yeah, I'm happy that I do get to produce, too, because I think the show is very challenging and all-consuming in its kind of brain power in a weird way, because it's, well, not even in a weird way, it's like extreme memorization, because we have to be word perfect. We cannot be wrong. And the dialogue is not natural. It is not natural, yes. Tony McNamara, our showrunner, he's a genius writer, and he wrote The Favorite as well. Did you ever see The Favorite? Oh, yes, of course. Yeah, it's kind of like super sung. That makes so much sense. Yeah, totally. But he's like, his rhythm is so specific, and yeah, the memorization is like, it's a lot. So you do need something to clear your head. I think having the producing side and getting to watch some dailies and put a different hat on at the end of the day helps clear it out a little bit. You thought it was me. I did. Well, that shakes a man. How can we trust each other? Faith. Annoying answer. Agreed. Well, yeah, for season two, I'm so excited. I can't wait. I'm like, what spoilers can you give me? Oh, my God. None. I don't even know. We're just kind of throwing. I just got a couple of the outlines for the first couple of episodes, so it's still very much coming together and things like that. But we've had a lot of conversations, and I think we've decided things that we definitely want to enhance or dive a little bit deeper in. Things that you specifically want to kind of bring to. Yeah, I think we want to lean into the horror aspect of the show a little bit more because it is so lighthearted. And I think a show like this, you know, with vampires and werewolves and superpowers, you just don't want to take yourself too seriously. So I think that we're kind of ditching any romantic love interest for Wednesday, which is really great. And then also we have such incredible female leads in the show. Is Queens coming back? Oh, my God. I would die to work with Gwendolyn Christie for the rest of my life. I know. She's a perfect. What? I was so shocked when that happened. I was like, no. Well, also, I wasn't sure about her at first. Yeah, she's a little. I mean, not her, but the character. I was like, I don't know, she could be a baddie. But then she was so good. Wednesday's relationship with Weems is one of my favorite because they're very, very different women, and they're constantly against each other, but simultaneously they both want to watch each other's successes and support them, which is such a fascinating dynamic, and Gwendolyn, being as talented as she is, is just really, really a pleasure to work with. So I'm doing everything in my power to throw the most insane plots that would possibly bring this woman back from the dead. I am trying. Great. Yeah, it would be a shame to go on without her. But yeah, definitely more. I think we're just going to get a lot more old or a lot more dark, which you never really know. But fortunately, I didn't know if it was going to be for younger audiences or older audiences, but it's kind of been a seamless transition in terms of different audiences, which I'm pleasantly surprised by and excited by, and I think we just want to see how far we can take it. Yeah, for sure. I think also the Addams Family, I mean, it's an iconic family. I love Addams Family values. That's one of the best movies. Incredible. One of the top. That's my favorite iteration. Did you watch them to study it? I definitely, I had never seen the series before, the one from the 60s. I don't think I've seen that either. Yeah, I went back and I watched the Addams Family series, and then I watched the movies 100 times over from the 90s, and that was just kind of all I really did. I also went back to the original comic strips because I think… I didn't even know they had that. Yeah, the wonderful thing about Christina Ricci is she kind of created Wednesday. You know, Lisa Loring, first iteration, absolutely wonderful, special, and completely different from Christina and much, much younger. But I think a lot of people associate the deadpan nature of Wednesday with just the Addams Family, and Lisa was very, very happy and excited and just very childlike. So it's been interesting to see what has been done, so I think with mine I just kind of had to try to blend the two as much as I possibly could. But that's what that was. I just was thinking, okay, what were the most memorable or heartwarming instances from, you know, both of these performances and then see, kind of see what I can do. OMG, you look perfect. Only thing, where are your whiskers? Ask again and you'll be down to eight lives. Yours is not a true story. Right. Very, very clearly. Is there anything in terms of getting yourself ready for that era or that time that you have to do to make sure things are accurate? Yeah, I remember starting out and I was like, okay, I'm playing Catherine the Great, so I need to do all this research on her and kind of pull out the books and read a bit. And then Tony was like, you don't need to do that. Like, you know, of course it's fun to read about her. And there are things in our show that we do bring in. You know, she brought female education and science and she invented the rollercoaster and that is real. Catherine the Great invented the rollercoaster. That's an incredible invention. Yeah, so I was like, that's all I need to know about this woman. I'm like, she sounds amazing. That's very fun. So like, we'll get back. But I kind of threw out the history books a little bit. I think, you know, she was reduced to this horse rumor that we all know that she, you know, they say she had sex with a horse and that's kind of what she's been reduced to, which I think it's like the first form of like slut shaming in a way. She was very, very sexually open and had a lot of lovers and loved sex. And so, you know, that's what society likes to do to women is put them down and they reduced her to this rumor. So I think with our show, we wanted to show the things that she did do for the country and her period was the Enlightenment period and she brought such amazing things. So those things are true in there. But I had to pave my own way and create our own version of Catherine. She was a very progressive and very modern woman and also was very kind of messy and not always right, like not the strongest woman in the room. I don't know if you feel like this, but like I've been reading scripts, it's like they love describing women as like badass, strong, and they're always like coming into a room and like they know everything and it's like, oh, that's a strong woman. It's like I don't want to watch that. I'm not like that. Like I love complicated women and I want to play evil women and, you know, that messiness is like that's what I feel like I try to bring that into Catherine because she's not always right all the time. Also, when you're watching a project, you want to feel like the characters or representatives that you're seeing of yourself on screen are relatable or attainable and sometimes when, yeah, when you're constantly walking and there's cars blowing up in the background and things like that, it's cool and it's awesome. It looks beautiful, but I don't know anything about her. So it's hard to develop some sort of admiration or connection with women when they're, yes, they're written very two-dimensional and don't really give you enough. To be a strong woman, you have to be this. You know, it's like, again, putting us into a box again. So I think I'm very grateful for Tony's writing of getting to kind of show different sides. And for it to be accurate and feel good to you and relatable to you. Totally. I mean, I think she has a huge ego. Like she's very egotistical, which is one of like I love playing that side of her. Like it's so fun. Calling yourself the great. Of course. Seems arrogant. It is if you're not great. If you are, it is just calling things what they are. Right. You have an Instagram? I do have an Instagram. Did it blow up after Wednesday came out? It did in a way that I did not, wasn't not anticipating any of that at all. Just like so many followers and comments. Yeah, and it was weird. I've had projects come out where people started to recognize me more, acknowledge me more on the street. And that was manageable and easy. But there was like a very obvious shift in my life. Maybe three days after the show came out. Wow. How did you manage that? What's your relationship like with that stuff? Because I know for me it can get toxic. It's ugly. Yeah, it does. I feel like it's the comparison culture of like so many images coming at you. And you're like just comparing yourself to all these people. Well, for you especially because I feel like you were in it right before because you've been acting for so long. You were in it kind of right, but you've seen the gradual shift to social media. Yeah, I've just seen it. We didn't even have Instagram when I was acting. I had like a private Instagram when I was in high school like just for my friends. I wasn't allowed a Facebook growing up. And that was like the cool thing. And so like I never knew about the parties. Like they'd have to text me like get a Facebook. But I wasn't allowed one. So I had a little private Instagram and like a Snapchat, which I don't anymore. But yeah, then when I was 18, I got a public Instagram, and that was like a huge thing. And it was also such a dilemma. I'm like should I get one? Should I not? Yeah, it's difficult. See, when I first started acting, it was told to me by my first agency really that I had to have a public platform, that that's what I had to be. And also when I did television shows when I was younger, they would take us to media training. They would call it, you know, Disney 101 or something like that where you would go and they would give you a notebook and pens and pencils and paper. And they would say, okay, you're going to post three times a day. This is how you get the most engagement. This is how you get people liked. This is how you build followers. Download these apps as well. Engage, you know, promote our show. So it became a business. Or you would go into some sort of audition or meeting and it was how many followers do you have? I didn't get a part once because I didn't have enough followers. Yeah. Which I was like, it was so weird. They were like, you were great, but your numbers. I'm like, oh, God. I was that way a little bit for a while too. I was not media trained. I'm like still just post whatever. Even after shooting Wednesday when I was auditioning for certain roles, they would ask me or they would come to my team. We like her, but we just don't know if she has enough of a platform or enough of a name because it's so important. It's really, really ugly. And I think that social media, what it does to anyone our age, it's such a comparing game. I think it almost influences bandwagon mentality where it's so easy to follow what a trend may be. As soon as you see a trend, especially the way the algorithms are set up, it's all you're seeing and all you're feeding on. It's just not brainwashing in a sense, but just very, very manipulative. And I get really, really nervous. I feel like after the show especially, I'm really, really nervous to post or really say anything on there or even be myself because I feel like. You could be misinterpreted. That's like a whole other world that people don't even prepare you for. And I naturally, because I tend to be sarcastic or dry, I feel like it's very easy for me to find myself in trouble. I wish I could be funnier on my Instagram. I wish I'm like, I could say something really funny. And then I'm like, oh no, but I can't because people are not going to, it's not going to land, it's not going to work. You're thrown to the dogs. And I was actually just talking about this because when I first started acting, my mom told me that I had to use my platform for good. I had to be vocal about things that didn't matter to me or were important in the world, society, whatever. And I had to get good grades. I couldn't have all straight A's. But I remember growing up and when I started creating this platform for myself, I just thought I am going to be funny and I am going to share whatever jokes I find. And I'm going to be honest and I'm going to be myself and I'm going to be vulnerable because I want people to be able to watch movies and also get to know the people behind the camera and feel like they're attainable or realize that people should never be put on a pedestal. Nobody is more special than another because of what they do. And then the more I guess I've been exposed to the world in a sense, people prey on that and take advantage of that and they see your vulnerability and twist it in a way that you don't always expect. It's so, so strange. Sorry, I didn't mean to do this. I didn't even feel like I was going to do this. But it's such a hard thing to balance because it's how do you be honest without jeopardizing your own health and safety and feeling like you're... It's very easy to feel almost out of control of things, which is why it's so important I think for people to get off the phone and experience. And I've been so, so grateful and lucky to be with family and friends and things like that who have been with me since I was a fetus. A child of four or five who are real people and know me for who I am. But it's definitely been like a... It's scary out there. You just have to protect yourself. And also just know when to put it away and know it doesn't matter. That's not the real world, you know? I will say the last couple of years I've gotten much better about not being on my phone or not reading comments. Because I know that's such an ugly cycle that people go through. But it's definitely like... Yeah, I was so nervous to even do this interview because I was like, oh man, I never do long interviews. They'll probably say we said something. Yeah, but not even that. It's just what do I talk about for so long or how do I... Because again, I still have this really, really intense urge to be human and honest and just authentic. Another thing about this industry is you get in front of the camera and people want you to be something else. Like you were saying, it's the puppet thing where it's have more energy. Could you smile a bit more? Could you sell this more? It just feels so gross. And I don't want to feel gross. I would rather people see me cry and do whatever than be something that I'm not. I don't know if you've found that you've got a couple years on you. No, I mean I think I hear you and it's so beautiful that you are so open and honest about your feelings because I think not a lot of people are and I think it's so courageous for you to put that out there and to say that. I think it also can help so many people as well. It doesn't matter if we're in the public eye or not. We're all human beings and it is a feeling. And I think like also you said, just surrounding yourself with people that know you and your family and your friends that you know are going to be truthful and honest with you and love you for you is really important. I feel like that's something that I've learned. It's like my friends aren't really in the industry. They're just my friends. Which is so nice. Yeah, and just my family. I think that's what's really been important. It's a real saving grace for me because they're my unit and I have them and they know the real me, which is important to have that. And I think a little, not even mystery, but it's like keeping something private and for yourself. It's like to protect that side of you. Yeah, that's definitely what a lot of it is. Keeping your own peace. Yes. I think it's good to be private. You want to share a bit, but I think there's a part of you that also it's important to keep to yourself that you know. I've felt more private than ever I think recently. And you feel you like that. I feel so, so, so grateful to have the job that we have because to be consistently passionate about and excited about something every day that I go to work, regardless of the hours, regardless of the time, regardless of the stress that it can bring, it's really such a pleasure. And it's something that I see myself always doing. And that's why it's, yeah, the social media and having to carry yourself in another light. How do you even represent yourself in photos and things like that? It's insane. Like, oh, yeah, this is me. All done up. Yeah. I'm just going to consistently post photos of myself so that you guys know what I look like. Yeah. I haven't changed. I got a new haircut. Yeah, guess what? Because you care. Yeah. No, but it is funny to kind of coming to the realization that something like that is completely worth it for the opportunity to do what we do and even be consistently working. Yeah, and I think, like you said, to use it as a space that you can highlight things that you care about and also show a little bit of your personality too because I think, like, before social media, I don't know, before that, it's like you didn't really have a platform for yourself. I guess that's the good side of it, that you can kind of speak, you know, to what you believe in. People across the world can communicate. And what I will say about my generation because I think it's very easy for us to be talked about as the, you know, screams, lazy, unmotivated, whatever the typical things that people are going to say. We are also having conversations that haven't always been accessible to anybody, and I feel like there's a lot of, well, it's hard. I mean, generalizations and assumptions are dangerous, and we should stay away from those, so I can't speak about it in a grand sense, but I do feel that we have opened a lot of space online for, you know, communities and people being able to resonate with people and maybe sometimes make people feel less alone and knowing that there's someone on the other side of the world that feels the same exact way. Or we're able to amplify and support other people's voices that maybe wouldn't be getting as much recognition or support, you know, on a global sense, which I think has been really, really fascinating to watch. And I just hope that we continue to use that and use our platforms to just kind of uplift one another and make sure that everyone is heard and equal because it is very easy to get lost in it as well.