Washington d'ici [9] : Fake news, complots : les derniers récits de campagne • RFI

Democracy is on the ballot. Your freedom is on the ballot. So now we have a new victim to defeat, Lyon Kamala Harris. I know Donald Trump's type. She is a radical left lunatic who will destroy our country. USA! USA! We'll stop Donald Trump's extreme abortion bans. Kamala, you're fired! Get out of here! You're fired! And when we fight, we win! God bless you! Washington D.C. We are six weeks away from the election. Harris and Trump are in the polls, and they are fighting the campaign like us. Jordan Davis from the RTS is in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Hello Jordan. Hello Sébastien. Frédéric Arnould from Radio-Canada is in Detroit, Michigan. Detroit, Michigan. How are you Fred? Pretty good my friend, pretty good. Very good. Sonia Dridi from RTBF is here in D.C. How are you Sonia? I'm fine, thank you. Guillaume Naudin from RFI is here too. How are you Guillaume? Better would be bad. I'm Sébastien Pahour from France Info, and you are all welcome in this 9th episode of Washington D.C. season 2. I give you the summary of the day apart from the movements of the two candidates Harris and his gun, Springfield and the cats and dogs who would go to the pan, and the black nazi of North Carolina. We start first in Pennsylvania. With you Jordan, the anticipated vote has begun in this key state of the election, the tipping point, the pivot state. Does the heart of the voters that you meet, Jordan, swing too? Yes, I am in this corner of the state where we really see the progression of Donald Trump. These historically working class corners, the white working class, as we said, and who massively plebiscited Trump in 2016. It was a shock for a lot of people because there traditionally it was democrats, it was a post-industrial union. Well, here we see how much, I measure how much, how much the Trumpization wins the minds here. It settles. I am right next to Luzerne County, which is a county that now has a majority of voters registered as Republicans. It's never seen here. And when we talk to voters, it's striking to see how much the economic argument and the identity argument, these two arguments come together and people will tell you, ah yes, but the price of housing is going up because there are too many immigrants who come and change our culture and they make the housing prices go up. It's so many conversations like this that show how much these ideas are now set up in the landscape here. Same question to you, Fred. You are in Michigan right now, but you spent a lot of time in the Derry County and other counties in Pennsylvania, north at the border of Lake Erie, on the edge of Lake Erie, as its name suggests. Remind us why this county in particular is ultimately a very good barometer. Well, in fact, since 2008, so it's been four presidential elections, voters have always selected the winner in this race to the White House, so Obama twice, Trump, Biden. And now, according to polls, it's a perfect equality between the two candidates in Pennsylvania. Erie is a city that was hit by inflation, a working-class city that was confronted with the same problems as this type of municipality across the United States. Well, factory closures, an impoverishment that was, let's say, accentuated during the pandemic. Now there are a lot of food banks running at full capacity. Small businesses are strongly imposed. And so there is a dilemma, because people are very divided. Immigration, indeed, we are far from the Mexican border, but we are close to the Canadian border. In fact, just on the other side of the lake you can see the flags of Canada. But there are still migrants who are really weighing down, let's say, the social challenges. So I attended mini-debates like this between Republicans and Democrats, and the economy often comes back. And I wanted to ask a little bit, but an economist from La Place, but what would be more beneficial as a candidate who would be elected for cities like Erie? And he told me, in fact, if we look at the programs, it would be Harris that would be the most profitable for this kind of city. And so we have the impression that they have always selected the winning candidate because they have always been looking for novelty. And in this case, if the novelty is perhaps promising for Harris. It is indeed Kamala Harris who embodies it. Guillaume, we finish this little tour of Pennsylvania with you before going to see the other topics. Nineteen major voters have voted. It is the most important of the seven pivotal states. You saw the opposite camp, since you were at an event with Trump's support. Absolutely. Pennsylvania is the big lot in this presidential election. And I ended up in Morgantown. It is just on the outskirts of Lancaster County. It is the rural part of Pennsylvania. We went together a long time ago in a report, you and me. Not far from the Amish. In the Amish country, exactly. And I ended up in an event where there was Doc Burgum, the governor of the North Dakota, and Christy Noem, the governor of the South Dakota. The Dakota had come to force in Pennsylvania. And there were Trump voters who were there. And they insisted a lot on an aspect of Kamala Harris' speech that worries them. Will she not change her mind about the exploitation of natural gas by hydraulic fracturing? It is something that worries them a lot. Because in 2019, during her first presidential candidature, which she abandoned quite quickly, Kamala Harris wanted to ban the exploitation of natural gas by hydraulic fracturing. And it is something that mattered a lot. Because it is currently authorized in Pennsylvania. It is something that mattered a lot in Pennsylvania's economic recovery, especially in the north of the state. Factory closures, etc. have been compensated by gas exploitation. And today, Pennsylvania supplies 20% of American natural gas. And the voters are a little afraid that Kamala Harris, who says that she is no longer for the ban of hydraulic fracturing, will change her mind. It is a precise but important issue in this campaign. It is a delicate question, Sonia, to vary so much on the fracking, hydraulic fracturing for Kamala Harris in this state of Pennsylvania. Yes, and by the way, Donald Trump plays a lot on this, saying that it is a joke. She justified herself by saying that maybe before she was against it, but that today the important thing was to diversify the energy sources. And we have the impression that we have moved on. It is really a way for Republicans to push her down. But I think she managed to convince Democratic voters and independent voters that we had to move on and that we could change our mind. We are now going a little further west. We are leaving Pennsylvania. We are going to Springfield, Ohio. We have already talked about this village here in Washington, D.C. It has been the central point of the country for a few days, since Trump relayed unproven statements during the debate. You remember that many Haitian immigrants in these cities in the Midwest, there would be around 15,000, would eat domestic animals. I went there last week and the director of the Haitian Community Center, was a little stunned by his words. It's really unimaginable to say such a thing. Because we don't have that in our culture in Haiti, to eat domestic animals. I don't know where he comes from with his words. And I don't know how much he has weakened the community by saying these things. The mayor of Springfield and the Republican governor of the state of Ohio call to stop maintaining false rumors. But Trump and his colleague J.D. Vance don't seem to hear them. What inspires you, Frédéric or Jordan, over there? In fact, we see that the Republicans, once they are on a tangent like this, they will go back. It's impossible for them to go back, because it's not in their nature. So they say to themselves, let's continue. Because for the MAGA supporters, whom they absolutely need to dream of winning, you have to feed this kind of coal stove with this kind of controversial rhetoric that has neither head nor tail, but which is really essential to try to bring back these troops, which are obviously against immigration and against this kind of concept. They don't care. So they continue. There are no limits. It's not a question for them to go back. Jordan, is it an anti-immigration machine that we feed too, as Frédéric says? It's red meat. It's really fresh meat for the base. This base now that hears Donald Trump in his political speeches. Here in Wilkes-Barre, just next to the city where Donald Trump was a month ago, he was dealing with illegal immigrants, as he treats Haitians, who are not in a regular situation. But he says, illegal immigrants are savages, savage monsters. I mean, these are registers of language that are frankly disturbing for living together in the United States. And especially Haitians. Donald Trump has a long history where he qualifies Haitians by all names. For a long time, in the United States, in the 1980s, Haitians were a bit of a scapegoat. In fact, they were said to have brought AIDS. Donald Trump stayed there. He talked about it, even very recently, Haitians carrying AIDS. In fact, Donald Trump conveys a lot of his stereotypes against his prejudices against Haitians. And here we see that now. It's frankly worrying to see how much he persists and signs with that. It feeds his electorate, clearly, Sonia. Yes, and what is worrying again is that Donald Trump, in fact, again echoes the rhetoric of neo-Nazi groups. It is said, in particular, that the neo-Nazi group Blood Tribe on Telegram is delighted with this last controversy. In fact, he could not even hope that a candidate would echo their theory that they have been feeding for a long time because neo-Nazi groups have already this theory for a long time that immigrants in Springfield, in particular, we have been talking a lot about it on social networks for years. Why? Because there has been a legal immigration of Haitians in recent years in Ohio and in particular in Springfield. So, in fact, there are neo-Nazi extremist groups who have been holding his words for years. And there, they are delighted that Donald Trump echoes them. And to finish, Donald Trump, who, despite the mess it made, even his vice-president, who at one point came back to finally put a new layer, a few days ago, he was in Pennsylvania, of course, as you said, Guillaume, it's really the big lot, and he said we have to get them out and the crowd to shout bring them back to their country. He continues while we have seen that it makes a mess. What is interesting and worrying is that we can see that a lot of people went there. The mayor, the governor of Ohio, we say, but it's not true. These people are here in a regular situation. They bring a lot to the community. These are people with a work ethic, workers. They run factories. They spend their money on site. They don't say that there are only advantages. Obviously, when you have 15 or 20,000 people from the same country coming, it puts pressure on housing, it puts pressure on schools. What is interesting and worrying is that once this rumor is launched by someone like Donald Trump, we can try to debunk it, as we say in English. There's nothing to do. It's over. It's impossible to stop it. We'll see. The next step is to know if he's going to go or not. He said he would go. In the latest news, he doesn't seem so sure about that. It also costs a lot to move. And he's not very young, Mr. Trump. We'll see if he goes. Another subject of the 15th, Oprah Winfrey's show. It was last week. Kamala Harris, guest of an evening between interviews and political meetings with celebrities. Kamala Harris made this remark about guns. I'm a gun owner too. And if someone breaks into my house, they're going to get shot. I hear that. I probably shouldn't have said that. Why did I say that, according to you? It's to prove that she's not against guns, but for a ban on assault rifles. She's looking to drag Republican voters. Completely, because we already know that this election will be extremely tight. So yes, she wants to drag Republican voters, and also many independent voters. And we know that many, even Democrats, support the Second Amendment. So she wanted to convey the message that yes, we must limit the sale of weapons, control the sale of weapons, and ban, if possible, assault rifles. But she's not against having a gun at home. She said, if someone breaks into my house, I'm going to shoot him. I shouldn't have said that. I'm going to let my team deal with it. Of course, let's not count on Oprah Winfrey. She's a key step in the campaign. Oprah Winfrey has been described as an independent voter in the past. So it's interesting, because even though she's close to Democrats, she's the kind of person she can try to convince. And what's also interesting is to see her more naturally, more friendly. Sometimes we see her like that, for example, when she was with her sister in videos, in meetings, but we don't see her as charismatic and natural as often as that. So it's also interesting to see her let go a little. A little spontaneous. Do you also think, Jordan, that she was spontaneous and that all this was well calculated? Yes, there is a performative side to this kind of exercise, because there she is giving an image of someone who looks like Americans, who looks like you, who has the same values as everyone else. So especially for a black woman, it's not obvious. A lot of people will say, ah yes, she's crazy, she's crazy, she's totally on the left side of the political chessboard. She's really trying to break that image. So with this kind of output, even if it's not necessarily what's going to be decisive, people say to themselves, people hear it and say to themselves, well, she's like me. And she smooths her image a little by doing this kind of thing. She smooths her image and it expands her electorate. Frédéric? Well, in any case, it's obviously the wish of her part. It must be said that Republicans have always tried to portray Democrats as people who are going to come to your house, knock on the door and confiscate your weapons, when it's completely wrong. That's not what they want to do. It's about having better control of the weapons, better verification of the judicial predecessors, for example. But it's clearly here a way to target these pivotal states. For example, the states of the north, like Michigan, Pennsylvania and Ohio, where hunting is obviously very important. So we don't want to touch this right to carry weapons. And it's also the case in the states of the Sun Belt, the other pivotal states in the south, like Georgia and Arizona, where it's really the Far West where we really stick to this kind of legitimate defense with firearms, of course. I think that, especially in Europe, people may not realize it, but here in the United States, there are a lot of people who are, so to speak, normal. It's not just guns that have weapons at home. My aunts had weapons in their handbags. So it's very common here. And so there, she still speaks, it's not a fringe of the electorate here, no, it's still a lot of average Americans, so to speak, normal, who are concerned, who see themselves in this kind of speech. Even Jordan Davis' aunts have a gun in their handbags. We know them, they are very nice, so it's still, it's information. We learned something. Traditional Republican electors, there are some who are hiding behind Harris, former Vice President Bush, Dick Cheney, of course, and his daughter Lise, former collaborator of the previous Republican campaigns or administrations. Sonia, you met one of these Republicans who is going to vote Democrat. He is a former elected by Virgie. Yes, Denver Riegelman, and by the way, it was pretty nice because I went to see him in his distillery of whiskey, in the middle of the Blue Ridge Mountains, near Charlottesville. And Denver Riegelman is a close friend of Lise Cheney. And what is interesting, he left the Republican Party, especially after the attack of January 6, especially because he was part of the January 6 committee, the special committee of the House of Representatives who was in charge of this Capitol attack. And so it was him and his team who found the texts of Donald Trump's relatives, collaborators, and in fact he was convinced that it was really an organized attack. And so he is completely disgusted with Donald Trump, to put it in two words. And you will hear, he tells us why he will support Kamala Harris. She's been Vice President. She's been a prosecutor. I think she's chosen a good candidate in the person of Tim Walz. And she's not crazy. And not being crazy is an important thing in politics today in the United States. That's why I always prefer reason to madness. And Trump is almost 80 years old, isn't he? We can say that he is aging, that dementia is setting in, he is senile, but he has not changed since he has become a kind of ignorant, authoritarian, idiot. I wish I had more flowery words to define stupid. I'm sorry, but I'm a Republican. I've been a Republican all my life and I'm going to vote for Kamala Harris. So it's really something she's working on. It's a thoughtful, conscious strategy and in the long run. Let's move on to the sultry character of the week. Well, not really of the week, because he's been talking about him for a while now. He's the Republican candidate for Governor of North Carolina. A certain Mark Robinson, supported by Trump. Let's first remember why he's famous here. Jordan, do you remember who this Mr. Robinson is? Mark Robinson is the Lieutenant Governor, that is, the assistant, if you will, the number two, the vice president, if you will, of his state. And he has a heavy passive with remarks on social networks for a long time, anti-Semitic comments against LGBT people. And there, he managed to win the North Carolina primary. And there are revelations that he left messages on porn messages where he told a lot of his sexual exploits with his wife's sister. I'll give you the details. But above all, he said to himself, among other things, I'm a black Nazi. I'm a black Nazi. He makes the apology of slavery and all that. Obviously, it makes a mess. There are a lot of people, his advisors, who abandon him. And there, he didn't withdraw. It was really this article that came out just before the last limit for him to withdraw. He didn't withdraw. So he's going to do well on the bulletin in November. Homophobic, negationist, conspiracist. Frédéric, the portrait is complete. And on top of that, he's almost alone now. Yes, and it's a problem, of course, for the Republicans and Trump. Because it's a candidate who was chosen and adored by Donald Trump himself. He spoke of him as a Martin Luther King on steroids. It's pretty incredible. But once again, it's an example of poor quality candidates who were chosen and supported by Donald Trump. And it's a problem for the Republicans. Because in 2022, during the half-term elections, Donald Trump had supported dozens and dozens of candidates with a lot of pot. People of poor quality. And the impact that happened is that during the half-term elections, Donald Trump and the Republicans lost a lot of seats that they could have won and therefore try to get majorities in the Senate and Congress. So once again, we are in 2024 and a state like North Carolina, which is a state that tilts from time to time on both sides, is problematic. And people are starting to wonder, but with such a bad candidate, won't there be a negative impact for the presidential race with Trump, who could suffer from the choice he made and the very negative image that the Republican Party gives to voters in North Carolina? And he can't afford to lose North Carolina? No, he can't afford to lose any state. It's so tight, it's not possible. In fact, what we need to remember is that we have a single ballot in the United States. We have Up the Ballot with the two candidates for the presidency. And we have different elections that are Down the Ballot. That is, there are local referendums and the governor's election, in this case. And what is very clear is that Democrats hope that the free fall, because he is in free fall in the polls, will mobilize voters so that he leads in his fall, so that he plunges Donald Trump's candidacy in North Carolina, and that it can help them to overthrow this state. Or that it demobilizes Republicans. And what is amazing is that for the moment he does not resign, he persists, and there is a whole part of the MAGA who will believe his theory because he hates liberal media so much. He says, I will pursue CNN in justice because it is they who released this information. And what is crazy is to see a good part of the pro-Trump who believe it. What is interesting is that we did not think that North Carolina would end up on this famous shortlisted list of pivotal states. Because if we look at the statistics between 2000 and 2020, each time they voted for the Republican presidential candidate, except once, it was in 2008 with Barack Obama. But for the rest, it is still quite stable at the presidential level and at the Republican level. And there, we really wonder how it will evolve on November 5th. We will see what will happen for Mark Robinson. We leave with this character a little sulfur. In the next issue, we will talk about the debate of the vice-presidents, Tim Walz and J.D. Vance. And we hope it will be a little more civilized. Bye everyone. Bye. Let's hope so. Bye. Washington DC Le podcast des médias francophones publics Radio-Canada, Radio-France RTS, RFI, RTBF