ONU : «Sans droit de veto, les sièges permanents africains ne sont que de la figuration» • RFI

Papy Brémacane, good morning. Good morning. Two permanent seats in the UN Security Council for the African continent. The idea has made its way and seems to be making consensus today. Do you think that this reform will one day become a reality? It's been 15 years since it was negotiated. And I think that this time the African states are holding on because one of the world powers, the permanent members of the Security Council for the United States, support the idea. All the other members of the Security Council are not against the idea. And so we can hope that this time things will move forward, especially since this week the African President's Committee is considering meeting the five permanent members of the Security Council to narrow the gaps. Let's hope that at the end of this meeting everything will become clear in the minds of Africans. Because it is up to African countries to take the initiative now to submit this reform? Yes. Do you think that nearly 30% of the member states of the United Nations, 17% of the world population can continue to be on the agenda of the Security Council without the states of this region being able to participate fully in the debate? This is not fair. Do you think that Africa will be able to reach a consensus to choose these two permanent representatives? I hope so. But it will be a little complicated in the sense that we already have states that have shown their interest in representing Africa at the continent level. And these are not small states. This is Egypt, this is Nigeria, this is South Africa and to a lesser extent Algeria. And now there is a fifth state on the horizon, which is Morocco. So to find two of these five, first of all, the elaboration of the criteria will be quite complicated. But you know that if the reform succeeds, it will not be two members, but five African members at the level of the Security Council. And so the idea is now to agree on which two will be permanent and the other three, depending on the formulas to be found. Now everyone knows in Africa what the great powers of this continent are. And so I don't think it will be too difficult, even if there will be a lot of negotiations, a lot of reconciliation. But I hope that there will be a consensus that will emerge. And who will decide? It is the Conference of Heads of State that will always decide. Perhaps if the decision is taken now, I suppose that it is only next year that there will be this conference to review. And once this conference determines the number of representatives, there will be a conference of heads of state, I imagine, to determine the representatives. There is also the delicate question of the veto right. The Americans said yes to two seats in Africa, but without a veto right. Two permanent seats in the Council, but without a veto right. What's the point? On this question, the Africans are very clear. They want two permanent positions with a veto right. Or we eliminate the veto right at the level of the Security Council and everyone is equal at that level. Those who have the veto right, will they accept it? Yes, but it's all a matter of negotiation. Because if this veto right is not recognized by the African states, I don't see what these two permanent positions are really going to be used for. It's just to make figures. I think that one will not go without the other. And if we are opposed to it, rather than accepting it, no one is, we must not let the five continues lead the rest of the world by the nose. We are at the heart of the problems of global governance. Absolutely. And you know, the crises that the world has experienced in recent times have shown that the world of 1945, the date on which this system was put in place, is totally revolutionary. The rules of the game must change and that the North accepts that the Global South has evolved and that the Global South is also not too demanding in terms of change, because we must accept the idea that we will go in an evolutionary way without making a revolution, because generally revolutions are not accepted by those who have almost everything to lose. Thank you. Thank you to you too.