Cheryl Boone Isaacs on Breaking Barriers and Fostering Diversity in Hollywood | DKTM Podcast

there's a little known part of Hollywood that most people are not aware of known as the audience test preview the recently released book audience ology reveals this for the first time our podcast series Don't Kill the Messenger brings this book to life taking a peak behind the curtain and now join author and entertainment research expert Kevin getts in 2015 and 16 Oscars so white the hashtag that Chang the industry rewrote the narrative critiquing Hollywood's racial disparity after Decades of neglect and exclusion it was a turning point in entertainment and film my guest today is one of the leading women behind the most significant inclusion initiatives implemented to date friends I have with me Trailblazer Cheryl Boon Isaac a veteran Communications and marketing executive in the film industry who has worked on more than get this 300 movies including Close Encounters of the Third Kind My Bodyguard ghost Forest Gump Spider-Man 2 the artist precious and the King speech to name a few she is undoubtedly best known for her 25 years of service to the academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences Board of Governors and was the first African-American to serve as its president in 2022 she became the founding director of the Sydney po new American Film School at Arizona State University CBI Cheryl I am so excited to have you here today oh Kevin I just adore you lovely to be here thank you very much I do want to make one little Point yes please yes as the first African-American president of the academy also as the first person of color wow in its 90 plus year history at that time and now thank God we have have Janet and I always like to say because as you said involved with the academy for many many years and in the industry and through the years I certainly notice the landscape mhm non- diversity challenges for women people of color to advance few here especially behind the camera Talent slightly different but still leaving many very talented people all peoples women and people of color kind of in the be Suite yeah On The Fringe In The Fringe with an occasional this and occasional that so when I was elected uh president it had always been in my mind always and everything had I was just going to ask you did you need Oscars so white to shame us or were you going to be more proactive regardless of that can you be candid about that yes I'm trying to remember now but there were very few minorities on the board during my first 24 years or so so there are all these little spaces I will call it that one needs to ascend to in order to be eligible for membership now there's a reason for that because this is an organization about excellence and while there are many people that were excellent the road forward in their career was not enough therefore there was a feeling of they don't want us it's a boys club it's a a white boys club women it doesn't didn't matter they're scattered through we know many women who have broken through men as well of color your brother being yes we're going to go there in a minute because one of our favorite subjects Ashley Boon but he was the first president of color I believe at a major Motion Picture Studio at 20th Century Fox amct exactly he was the very first executive in Hollywood to have the title of President of marketing and distribution and who was the first woman as African-American yeah Cheryl 20 years later now that doesn't that tell you something oh it sure does it tells me that there is an Institutional issue in Hollywood yes and that the academy for good bad or otherwise took the brunt of that and also the responsibility of that which I always thought was sort of an unfair responsibility but nonetheless what I appreciated and applauded about my friend was saying look somebody's got to take responsibility somebody has got to take control and you allowed it to be the academy which was really Noble if you really think about the entrenchment of those old values and mores and traditional hires it took you know a lot of guts my saying was folks we need to widen our lens mhm mhm there is a lot of talent that's being left behind there's an audience that is not being served this is silly and you asked about Oscar so white I put it this way I'm in the car I am driving it's a stick shift Oscar so white pushed me into fourth gear mhm and first allowed well I would say second you were in second gear second gear as we were but it was an acceleration for sure exactly so it was a boost in a very helpful way to get attention mhm outside of the academy therefore yes putting a spotlight on something that we could really dive into was there any resistance once that hit in the Press was there any resistance from the board no I do believe again I've been involved for a long time it was a bit of a refreshment people didn't know how to do what to do didn't really talk about it very much however once it was brought it was World certainly national news and international because I have friends internationally who would reach out to me oh my goodness had no idea had no idea that it was such a closed group and now we're saying no no we're open and people that I knew and some that I did not personally know African-American filmmakers who did not know that in my mind they were part of my Catalyst of discussion oh interesting for studios in particular again widen the lens You've Got Talent in front of you that for whatever reason you're not noticing you make assumptions people can only go to a certain level and that happens generally anyway but it's much more noticeable really what it did in many ways is it opened up our whole industry to take a look at itself in the mirror exactly and I think that is amazing what are the board meetings like everyone wants to know when you go behind those doors and there's all the governor's meeting and you and I are on the same branch of the marketing and PR Branch what is it like is it convivial people get along is there infighting give us a little inside scoop but without revealing anything well again I was on that board for quite a long time and it certainly did kind of change through the years of course different people but different approaches I I was pretty young when I first got on the board in 1989 scared to death absolutely scared to death there were two women I think correctly I really should look all this up it was very low I mean we have data that absolutely shows yes that voices inclusive voices of and I don't mean simply race I don't mean color I mean age I mean oh yes different culture languages cre a more compelling discussion much better idea generation this is a fact I've done a lot of research around this obviously since Oscar so white and the truth of the matter is why don't people just get it well I think they are starting to get it I really do believe the academy has changed and there is a genuine shift yes and that's a fantastic thing I want to go back to early Cheryl Boon Isaac's I want to go back to a M you made to me years ago which was David Forbes and you were a young I guess newbie very newbie publicity yes director or coordinate whatever you were not even and tell us the story of when you were in a meeting and you kind of asked a question oh yes I love that so much and the young listeners particularly need to hear this David Forbes said a few things to me that I he was David was of course president of distribution this is when you at race St that's right I was at Columbia and it was one of our movies that was the first time I actually learned about press junkets from David and I remember asking him I was annoyed because I felt I wasn't listened to and he was someone I felt I could confide that sort of thing and and he said to me you don't know enough to ask the right question isn't that the greatest I have used it probably a hundred times if not more his quote regarding you and you're in your early 20s or something like that and were you offended when he said I was so offended what you know because he was a friend so I could be all like that and I was in front of people by the way no oh no no no no no and um it just struck me oh my God it was a big lesson and you have been very known for another quote which was for the first 10 years of your professional life keep your head down down yeah learn yeah absorb be a sponge and then lift your head up and lean in exactly right it's a marvelous piece of advice to give to young people especially younger people now who have sort of this expectation to want to like go far too soon if you tomorrow tomorrow exactly and I deserve it yeah I deserve well I mean I applaud the ambition but you cannot manufacture relationship you can't manufacture experience it has to come organically and I think that was also going back to the academy one of the issues of this you know the Excellence comes in many different ways correct we had to sort of as an academy change our definition of what excellent meant and that was a good learning experience for me me to sort of understand oh okay I understand that that makes sense to me because we've been looking through a prism of one way of excellence and we had to broaden it or we would not have let any other people in because people have been as you said excluded for so long yes I don't know if you remember this when you got the presidency I was your first call at least you told me that and and I because I called immediately as soon as I read it it was a breaking news and I called Cheryl Cheryl and you said I I I know I just I just found out I I and cuz it broke very soon right well what happened in what happens is the elections happen just with the board which I've always thought was a great idea it's not membership wide right it's the board and because the board knows it's like choosing a pope well but it's like the smoke the I know almost but I think in some ways nobody was thinking of that at the time so when I was elected I had been told that within the first hour I had over a thousand requests on LinkedIn cuz I was consultant and I went oh cut that out cut that out I am not a seeker of Fame but I love this organization you really are not and because of your publicity background you've always been in the business of promoting others exactly right and you don't really feel particularly comfortable when the spotlights on you nope but damn you get a good job I wanted to say you did a good job of getting up there and presenting us so elegantly and gracefully and beautifully and you looked damn good I remember you wore that you bought it in India I believe that sari that you wore oh yeah no I bought it in Abu Dhabi but it was of Indian design was that the green one yes and I'm looking at a red dress here in one of the pictures in the studio you knew how to you knew how to wear your new fame well am I motto for myself because so much is coming at you I wanted to make sure did not embarrass my family and the members of our branch that you know it we were so proud of you we had Sid ganis yes and Richard Khan was a publicity was Marvin ever Marvin was a board member but never a president no it was the three of us wow that's what a group these two men were my mentors wait and we have to next talk about how we're going to give an Academy Award to the marketing at PR Branch I mean I actually think that it's very complicated who gets it the president of marketing at the studio I know I think it's honorary probably honorary Oscars you know there's a place for people who've made an indelible Mark in the business the year I produced the governor's Awards one was Jeffrey kenberg ah MH gotcha and then the humanitarian award of course goes to someone I nominated a few people which will remain nameless but I did nominate someone for an honorary Oscar this year and also for a humanitarian neither of them got but as you know I was very very instrumental in supporting Jenna rolands getting her honor Oscar may she rest in peace I miss her terribly and it was you who called me CU it was seven years that I lobbied for Jenna to get it with people like Marty sesi and Sandy bulock and others that were great in wanting to help support that and then you called me one day and said Kevin are you sitting I said what Jen is getting it it was just after you made the call to them and right before the press hit because you knew how Neil and I were really behind that and man that was meaningful and of course we sat with Jenna at the event and it was one of the most special evenings that I've ever been to It's a Wonderful room I loved for example being Sharon Stone's guest one year and we sat right in the front and Oprah got the award for humanitarian and she talked about Sharon right in the front row and it was such a familial wonderful I felt you know I felt like I was part of something important and I think that's why it's important for us to always retain and maintain the Integrity of the Academy I think Bill Kramer's doing a spectacular job isn't he yes and I know the museums had its challenges but they seem to be getting their stuff together it's that takes time I know it does it everybody wants instant that's almost impossible and even in Hollywood where they're instant Stars if you do your homework you'll find out that they've been at it so to speak for many years I also like that they don't seem to back away from the controversy in other words they'll say yeah we screwed up we're gonna fix it or we're learning this is a learning moment for us and I think that's super important well I have a thing I wish they would at somewhere in there list all the presidents of the academy through the years oh Absol is it's not there we're not mentioned at all well we will and I know it's I'm not thinking just for me I think about Mr mirish I think about Bob Remy I think about many different people that had some part of where the academy is today including the museum the museum has been talked about almost the entire length of the existence of that's a really great idea by the way the other one that I'm advocating for are marketing posters one sheets that's what I just had a meeting about and I want to do this celebrity photography as well as behind the scenes of the unit photographers cuz I'm bringing these things to my students they have no idea of all of the different areas that they they can succeed I hope and I know you do this I'm having going to ask but I'm going to say it for the listeners if you haven't been to the Margaret herck Library get your ass there because oh it is spectacular when I was writing my first book Audiology that was a very good source man like that had old questionnaires from funny face it is a treasure it really is a treasure and I'm so glad to hear that you are also actively giving your input because you're influential in that area and if you notice I said we're going to change that because the thing is it's our Museum it's the entire membership exctly right and we all knocked ourselves silly to raise money and to give money and to continue to support it I just want to say that the idea for the Governor's Awards was actually mine years ago that was brilliant separating it from the noise of the whole broadcast what I kept noticing was wonderful people who were recognized for the broadcast but I kept thinking and one name didn't even know me was Roger Corman there were names in my head that I'm like wait a minute we are saying that we represent the best in so many different fields what it takes to make a motion picture and while we have celebrated many Fantastic folks on the show we should put something together that is more about the people we all know from all these branches whether it's out of costume whether it's out of makeup whether it's out of cinematography whether it's humanitarian we already had thalberg we already had Margaret herck so why not broaden it make it a celebration by the way with no press which is still my favorite because people act differently you know as you know I just got an award this year and you I was there you were there of course that's what friends are for so that was a very special evening obviously for me but if you notice there was no press invited inside the room because it was originally telecast the American cinem American cinematech and I think people were more likely to want to let their hair down and it is a different it's a different vibe there's nothing wrong with any of it I refer to the Oscars as our one night out versus the 365 days of work that goes on for Oran it's like our New Year's Eve and it's fun I mean I love still going fun it's so fun when we come back I want to talk to Cheryl about what got her to the place and the woman she became we'll be back in a moment listeners we are just around the corner from celebrating our 50th episode of my podcast Don't Kill the Messenger we have a lot in store for you including an upcoming special interview with Visionary director Ron Howard make sure to subscribe so you don't miss it and for this Milestone we would love to know who's listening out there please visit my website at Kevin 360.com for the link and through August everyone who connects will be entered into a drawing for our special 50th episode celebration t-shirt giveaway as always I am grateful for your support of my book Audiology and in helping to spread the word about my podcast thanks everyone we're back and so excited to continue our conversation again one of our favorite subjects is your brother your brother who I never got to meet now first of all you and I go back I don't even want to say how many but it's over three decades I met you at Paramount originally I think which was probably 35ish years ago when you were working with Don Steel and then we with Nan shut Ned Tannon Frank mauso Frank M and our dear Sher lanzing Sherry who's our favorite talk about your brother and his influence you're a girl from Springfield Massachusetts that's correct what did your parents do mom stay at home Dad postal worker so good work ethic in the family totally New England to the core still very much and how many kids four and I'm the baby and Ashley was the number two my sister V I know Velma yes who's still live 88 and 88 oh my Lord just the other day can you believe you're saying you have a sister who's 88 I have no understanding she talks about how she's 39 and I'm 50 so now I'm her older sister and who who the and so Richard who I grew up with is Richard still alive yes and he's 80 and I'm staying with him this weekend I and Pasadena oh he's local okay yeah so what's interesting is I teased my mother is that V and Ashley were like a year and a half apart and she didn't plan this but she was smarter than even she knew I think she realized two babies at once too much so the next pregnan was when Ashley started school then she had Rick and then when Rick started school she had me so I always used to joke with her she said she didn't plan it but I think because she's very smart how did he actually get to Hollywood through Robert Benjamin at United Artists in 6162 after graduating from brandise University with a degree in economics brandise University University at the day he graduated 1960 jewi boy a nice Jewish right words like muga and you know when I was a little girl he would teach me all sorts of you know why did everyone rever Ashley so much I I never I'm just being candid I've never heard like a negative thing about you never I don't think you will and what amazes me like a gentleman is very much and handsome charismatic smart feet on the ground died way too young what 55 of pancreatic cancer in ' 94 was it '94 and it was a six Monon and must have been one of the most devastating things in your life oh my God because our family I was so blessed to be born into that family did he tell you to come out by the way oh no he was adamantly against me getting into the business well how you went to Whittier College which is out here so how did you how did you get to Whittier if he didn't did you follow him anyway to California no he came in 71 I came in ' 67 you preceded him just like on the board I preceded him oh so it's always not not everything has been me second and I used to tease him when I was elected to the board before he was and later people would say to me oh you got on the board because of your brother went oh no he was elected to the board finally though yes and we were both on the board together and the academy hey wait a minute that's NE that's a they were he was executive branch on PR and the academy didn't do anything publicity wise for it okay that's a whole other thing yeah right says a lot and but he was the force in our family what was his superpower brains and lack of arrogance I would say which is why I think people had such high regard for him except for those who wish to make sure he didn't become too famous and I do believe that and I think that that's what caused much angst and ugly inside of his body wow for cancer to exist appreciate research oh yes and Technology big time you're talking in the 80s oh yes he had the first computers the first this oh yes he was I think out of so many areas that I see today that he would have excelled tremendously the biggest one is technology because growing up he always wanted to be an architect oh how interesting yeah what did you want to be I wanted to be a musical comedy dancer on stage do you know I never knew that I know I always daning with your self deprecating you know you have a self-deprecating quality I said you put others before yourself yet you wanted to be on stage you know Sharon Stone was my guest I said Sharon you were this sort of Bookworm who didn't really like an little intellectual introvert who became an actress like how did that happen so I say the same thing how did you make the turn away from that to the publicity side it's not a well and I I fell into that it's not something that my parents thought was going to be the place to go for a young female they didn't say no there's Massachusetts that's the New England well my parents were born my dad in 1910 my mom 1915 their Vision as African-Americans and America Amica very different and it was always there you know be careful all the time makes me more reserved and that's for sure and it took up quite a bit of time protection not overly but there and I had a few other jobs I would say they were more like jobs I went to Whittier College because at the time I wanted to work for the federal government that's why my interest in politics usually you were a political science major absolutely and an economic mix minor how'd you fall into Hollywood I was living in San Francisco right another little interesting fact out of college I was a stewardess for Pan-American airlines that I remember wait for PanAm PanAm did you wear one of the pilled box hat oh yes no you didn't and they called you a stewardess that that's why I always say to people I was a stewardess that's how long did you do that for Just 2 years and then what happened and well there was a gas shortage remember that in the Carter yes so the choice was move to Honolulu or Houston because I was in San Francisco I love San Francisco Honolulu hands down I was worried that I would become crazy with no Island fever but the routes were fantastic it was Asia and I love love love Asia and then I took a couple of different jobs and thought what am I doing I'm in San Francisco what am I doing I'm 24 25 Cheryl you need a career come on and and I really toyed with this for a while for like months months months and then I went you know what I really want to be in the business packed up the plants and the cats and drove to La Ashley was I'm not going to help you oh he said that absolutely we were very close so I knew it wasn't anything about ego or power that was never a thought yeah so thought of if you could do anything else do it in other words it's a hard business it's a hard figure out on your African Aman female his little sister he was concerned and I said that's okay it really is okay I want to see if I can get it on my own so Bob dillian who worked with Ashley at Fox and then at LAD company who I absolutely Ador obviously adored me and he gave me some names to start going for interviews and they were small PR firms that were powerful but small okay and first of all this is a funny thing when I would call up and make appointments I would constantly be asked are you one of Pat's daughters Pat Boon and I would say you said no you li I would just say no I'm not and they would because of Bob I think take the meeting and every meeting after I would say could you give me some names so I could call but it was always fun not really when the door would open and I'd just watch the face for a few minutes as we had to readjust to something different it's kind of like my freshman year in college when my roommate when I opened the door she burst out crying it took her quite a while to calm it down to real oh my God hearing this is just like oh yes the book will be very exciting so anyway no it's something that like myself who presents as a white male in this society never has to deal with and it's just crazy it's it's you know I it you but do you think things have changed oh God yes however God doesn't mean that's over oh I I didn't say that but it defin understand changed and I think allowed people to be able to actually Express themselves when they might have been afraid in their group or their area but you ask me a question I didn't quite finish because I just want to say when I would go out on these interviews and I could tell they're just being polite um but that's okay that doesn't stop me things like that and then I went to Colombia pictures because Bob had said to me dillian oh you know I heard that Colombia's going to put together the biggest press junket ever in Hollywood maybe there's something there so what was it for I got a meeting Pat Boon's daughter with Barry Lorie who was head of publicity then at Columbia Pictures and the movie was Close Encounters of the Third oh my God your first movie my very first movie but I was a little nothing in the corner believe me who cares exactly and I told my students that because I was a nothing nobody pays attention to you so I'm a great Observer and I'm like watching and who and blah blah blah and I've just always been that way and that was my first position and I have to say that through most of my career a lot of those journalists I worked with who would have known that I would never had Associated that concept when I first started out so all those years on publicity when we do press junkets or whatever I'd known them already for years we were Paramount after that for 13 years yes you did so many you Rose from from a junior person to a VP to a senior VP to an executive VP before you finally became president of marketing at new line that's right now in all those years what junkets what publicity events are you most proud of is there one that really sticks out in your mind like we did this for Forest Gump or we did this for you know I take these things kind of personally so the one I think about and it's come up lately because it's the fourth installment is Beverly Hills Cop Premiere the second one Eddie Eddie Eddie there was Sylvester Stone every cool folks in Hollywood all wanted to go that Premiere and it was tense and it was just so much fun and I got to dance with Jerome from the time anyway to me it was a very big deal it's like one of my highlights we also for it was on the Rooftop in Hollywood that could never happen again because of all the noise and the sound and the people living in the hills were all you know angry but that was a lot a lot of fun probably the biggest was the Howard Stern film that was at Madison Square Garden private parts private parts yes with I love Thomas Thomas I love Betty Thomas right it was so much fun and she thought blae and I when that we had our first screening at at the lot I we didn't know she was behind us and we're watching this movie and talking back at it you know and being you know like real people not every all the studio people me and blae and Carol Su were like uhhuh yeah go you know all that that we do and at the end of it she went up to talk about it and she said all I know is those people back there I want them in every screening I ever have it was so funny but I remember Arthur Cohen said to me Arthur Coen was head of marketing head of marketing then my boss and learned a lot from him with every everybody actually I must say I took bits and pieces from everyone that works out doesn't you know whatever and we had the pope mobile and it was MTV special before the screening Madison Square Garden oh my that was big that's a biggie that was a biggie I remember going to the premiere at Madison Square Garden for Godzilla and I sat like almost Center Court is that size Matters oh that was Size Matters bob L call out to Bob call out to Bob I I'll tell you you need to call out to Bob because that movie opened spectacularly well and had I think the biggest drop in it made no money because it was all about opening weekend which means it was all about marketing and if you talk to Dean devilin he'll tell you one of his regrets is never really having tested that movie and that was a fatal mistake that he you always have to test you got to get out of the bubble oh you must get out of the music guys Cheryl's singing music you must test you heard her say it right here no you you but you I mean it's silly it's very easy for us to live in our bubble I have some speed round I'm going to do quickly and I've chosen specifically African-American notables in our business and I just want to get your sort of give me your first take on your experience with them first is uh Ruben Canon oh my God I have loved Ruben Cannon for a very long time and I did not know when I used to see his name on those Universal shows that he was African-American I saw his cool name Reuben Canon really on the front of a show on television what so who knew and we are still friends in fact we have a project together iore him what's the project can't tell you okay I'll learn afterwards folks Deborah Martin chase another great one I met her on Princess Diaries and she's still also a good friend and she's done so much she needs more recognition in my mind with Rick I think she was the one of the first or the first to have a studio deal female African-American I believe very smart knows her business I think she's fabulous she's good friend Deborah Lee I don't know Deborah that well we got to know each other more when I was President CEO another these women are so smart highly educated and very smart and learn very quickly which one must in order to navigate and maneuver through this very very tough World C entertainment Paris Barkley another one of great ones I'm loving that you're doing this Paris was president of the DGA when I was president of the academy and then who got elected overlapping we were at the same time oh he did really well oh yes he really was terrific he's fantastic heo Washington that Screech who just get it done guy get it done guy wow and many mees which he totally deserved not big in the spotlight good friend who was then made president of not writers producers and so there was the three of us at one time in Hollywood was there a big deal about it no Ley Spike one of my favorite things about Spike never mind the fact that when I first saw years ago she's got to have it oh my God it's probably my favorite to this day and even though do the right thing my mental Summer of Sam so many so many so diverse so fabulous worked with us one of our marketing campaigns when year for the Oscars when we did what is your favorite quote from a movie and he went out on the street wonderful and one of my favorite things with Spike was when I called him to tell him that just came out of the meeting and that was Jenner rand's year right and I called him and I said Spike I just want you to know I came out of the board meeting and I want you to know that we have selected you to be a recipient of an honorary Oscars from the academy his first words were for real for real Cher I'll never forget that ever for real and I said for real it goes a real one not a little one I totally teared up those were my probably my favorite of of my years as president is calling people like Morin O'Hara who cries Morin O'Hara I'm talking to her and she's so excited she's in tears do you know what I mean do I know what you mean these that was so much fun through those four years of calling people it's like I remember Sid ganis calling me to tell me I got in the academy oh yes because of course I got rejected the first time which happens very often to folks takes a while and well I then I got in on my second try and it was really about qualifications at that time I had to have X number of years as a I don't know whatever you whatever was just a couple of more this is fun I'm sorry Ava du well she's a force and she's stunning don't you think I've always thought she was stunning I think she's stunning yeah she's stunning and she is powerful and what has she done with it help others okay nothing can be better than you have this kind of power and you Reign it on other people so that they can be successful someone I haven't worked with in a while but I always thought he was so gifted is Thomas Carter yes have you talked to him l no I haven't talked to almost anyone anyone probably Ruben more than anybody lately you things change and when my time was up at the Academy I could have run again but I just felt 24 years for other you could have yeah I thought you turned out no I did not ter out I turned out but I didn't ter out but I just thought 24 years people come on it's crazy new people please you teach students I want to ask you about they come in these students and I've taught your class a number of times at Chapman I have to say that they all think they're going to be the next Lee or Martin scorsi or Steven Spielberg that's what I or stepen Spielberg and so my question I guess is what do you tell them about the intersection of art versus science or ART versus the audience not versus science science is part of it can you tell me about how they come in and how they leave well they're young so they come in full of piss and vinegar which is great or shy sometimes very shy not knowing much because of press It's usually the most famous the way the Press is and it's not a bad thing it's just the way it is you're famous if you're an actor you're a director everybody else maybe if you're interested in certain areas but that's kind of the the average person the average film goer people who enjoy and love this medium including students and they think about the movies they've loved and so they look up who is the director so the biggest thing for me through all of my years again I started teaching in the '90s I didn't realize that you went back that far with the where were you teaching then USC race Stark program oh at the Stark program W yes that was my first number of years with art Murphy and then Larry tman yes art was the one who forced me I kept saying what are you talking about I can't teach graduate students is he a writer yeah for variety and he called me I want you to do this what do you tell the student leaving film school coming into the world I'm interested in hearing what you say to them what and I other than two things for the first 10 years keep your head down and and learn and the other one is uh you don't know enough to ask the right questions that one comes early I love that but tell me about what you say as parting words to them or what would you say as as we end this interview what was important to me is that they understand that this business is a collaborative business it takes Village takes a community art of film making is not not one person and every Department that comes together to actually bring what is written words yes onto a screen that elicits emotions for people is Magic It's Magic when you think about it how does that happen and it happens with a whole group of people from different disciplines who are all in support of the important thing which is the story if the story isn't there you know this totally oh 100% then as this project progresses if it does and I used to say folks I'm from marketing if we can't figure out what the essence is then we're going to tell the public what it is so you need to make it very clear so it's a very big point at the Sydney parier film school I say to students all the time you know yes it's a director's Vision yes there's a uh yes of course yes the producer is the glue the exactly puts it all together but at the end of the day you don't have a great production designer and art director and star and writer all of those things it's not like writing novel it's not writing or it's like painting an oil the reason is is you know you don't like those things they can go in your closet or in your drawer that's right but to get involved in a film it's a medium that's meant to be seen by many people and it takes a village to do properly so I love what you said I love the fact that you salute so many artists and it doesn't surprise me that your incredibly strong advocacy and sensitivity to all those things got you to be president of our Academy but also to the woman that I know you are and the woman who is one of my very dear friends and I love you and I thank you so much for being here well thank you so much it's always a pleasure to see you always we've known each other forever we will forever to our listeners I hope you enjoyed our interview for More film making and audience testing stories I invite you to check out my book Audiology at Amazon or through my website at Kevins 360.com you can also follow me on my social media next time on Don't Kill the Messenger I'll celebrate my 50th episode with a very special guest the academy award-winning filmmaker Ron Howard until then I'm Kevin GS and to you our listeners I appreciate you being part of the movie making process your opinions matter