“六四幕後黑手”王軍濤：北京老百姓瘋了 拼了命保護學生 白紙革命和六四有何不同？

Mr. Tan, the 35th anniversary of June 4th is coming soon. As a witness, you have been participating in the democratic movement for so many years. Can you recall 35 years ago, when Hu Yaobang passed away, and when the students in the central government came out to protest against the revolution, and when the students in Tiananmen Square and June 4th came out to shoot? Did you expect that the Communist Party would shoot the students and use tanks to suppress them? At first, we didn't expect that the movement would reach such a large scale. According to past experience, the student movement started in 1985. From 1978 to 1979, after the revolution, the number of university students entering the university has never been reduced. For example, from 1985 to 1998, there was a school strike every year in Peking University. In 1986, the student movement reached a large scale and Hu Yaobang was removed from office. But there was no response from the society. In 1988 and 1989, we also knew that Hu Yaobang had passed away. I was in Ningxia and Yinchuan at that time. The mayor of Ningxia invited us to a meal. After the meal, we heard that Hu Yaobang had passed away. I immediately said that something was going to happen in Beijing. I bought a plane ticket and went back to Beijing. At that time, I knew that something was going to happen. When I arrived in Beijing, something really happened. But I didn't expect that the student movement would reach such a large scale. Most importantly, I didn't expect that the citizens of Beijing would support the student movement so much. In order to protect the students, they gave their lives. Because I was in the student movement, and there were millions of people in the movement. According to my experience, the biggest difference was that the student movement was suppressed. At that time, the students also thought that they would be suppressed. Tiananmen Square students insisted that if they were to suppress the student movement, they would use sticks to beat the students. After beating the students, they would take them out. The students were ready to accept this. But they thought that they couldn't withdraw. They didn't agree to withdraw. Because they thought that the demands were legitimate. But in the end, the students were suppressed. I think that the main reason was that I was standing on the side of the army. I was the secretary of Hong Xuezhi, the secretary of the Secretary General of the National Defense Research Association. I was also the secretary of Hong Xuezhi, His secretary told me that the army had prepared five violent levels There was no such thing later. In fact, the army was also out of control. The main reason was that Beijing citizens fought to the death to defend the students. This caused the army to be unable to enter the city. There are many details here. For me, at the beginning, I didn't expect the students to be so big. I didn't expect them to get so much support This has a lot to do with the students' determination. When the students first came out, I was already the Deputy Editor-in-Chief of the Beijing School of Political and Defense. Our situation was more complicated. Generally speaking, there were many problems in China that needed to be solved. At that time, we young students took to the streets to fight for the people at the risk of our own lives. We were also worried that the school in 1986 would be taken by Hu Yaobang. We were also worried that Zhao Ziyang would be involved in the reform. At that time, Hu Yaobang did not solve these conservative issues, but Deng Lixun and Wu Xiaomu did. However, we were still worried that if Deng Xiaoping or other conservatives took to the streets, the students would not do anything. However, Deng Xiaoping would clean up the students' blood. We were worried about this. Later, on the first day of May 3rd, we hoped that this would end quickly and not fight. But on the second day, we were deeply moved by the students who fought for the people and the future of China. They did not graduate from a prestigious university, but they did their best to fight for the people and the peace. I always tell my party members that these students sacrificed for you. They did not need to sacrifice for their own interests. At that time, although there was no freedom of speech in China, students could say whatever they wanted. If they graduated from a prestigious university, they did have freedom of speech. However, they did not have the freedom to speak publicly in the media or in society. However, they still had the freedom to speak publicly in the media and support the students. At that time, I made a decision with my friends to set up a meeting to discuss a plan and then talk to the government. Indeed, after the meeting was set up, all the students from different organizations were invited to participate in the meeting. Li Yang, Wang Dan, Wei Kaixi, Liu Yaoguo, Zhou De, etc. In fact, all of them were there. Therefore, if we can discuss a plan and talk about it, I know that before the end of the month, if we can't talk about it, the military will suppress it. At that time, many people thought that the military could not control the situation. I said nonsense. I said that ordinary people could not defeat the regular army on the street. At that time, only the French did it. It was the 18th century. It was the age of weapons and weapons. I said that as long as the army fired, no ordinary people could hold it. At that time, I said that if there was no result I would withdraw all my people and leave. At that time, Liu Gang and Zhang Lun were the leaders. Liu Gang did a lot of work. He did a lot of work, including the Democratic Salon in Peking University. He started to do it in the 18th century. When I was ready to leave, Yaoguo and Zhou De found me and told me that they were going to be exterminated. Later, I thought that they were all close friends. So I was willing to host the extermination for 48 hours. They asked me to host the extermination for 48 hours. But the extermination took place on June 3rd. At that time, there was also a plan to exterminate on the street. After the extermination, they continued to exterminate. At that time, the army fired. On June 3rd, where were you at that time? We were a team. At that time, we were the most mature team We started in 1976. Later, the Democratic Salon in Peking University and the Student Union in Peking University were all planned by us. So, when this movement came out, we were quite satisfied. At that time, we were all in different corners. Every night, we would meet at a small hotel in a small town in Wuxing. Every night, we would meet there. When I went there that night, our team was very large. We had more than 200,000 students. Most of them were party officials. The highest rank was Vice Premier Jiang Chunyun. He was one of our students. In ancient China, he was my disciple because he was a teacher. In Peking University, there were more than 100,000 students We had a newspaper, a research institute, and a company. We had a very large team. So, my driver picked me up and took me back. Half an hour later, he couldn't make it because the army was firing. I told him to take me there. It was at the intersection of Wuxing. I was the first one to be shot. I couldn't make it because there were too many people. I got off the car and walked over. Suddenly, I saw an army car driving past. I was lying in the middle of the road with my eyes on the sky. I couldn't see anything because I was covered in blood. There was a car at the entrance of the hospital. The army was constantly firing at the people. The people were carrying bricks and putting them there. The people were carrying them and walking over. The army was firing. It was raining heavily. Anyway, I felt relieved and rushed back. I promised my friends including Wang Dan and Bao Zunxing that I would keep them safe if they fired at me. So, I found Wang Dan and Bao Zunxing first. Where were they? They were staying in different places. In different places? Not in Tiananmen Square? Actually, Tiananmen Square is like this. Many people decided to withdraw from Tiananmen Square. If you wanted to withdraw, you could leave. If you didn't want to withdraw, you could stay there. If you wanted to suppress, everyone would go back. On June 3, many people went back to Beijing because Wang Dan and I were together. We were in the same group. He wasn't there. At that time, many college students were going to various places to mobilize the people and build a democratic campus. The campus was going to be a democratic wall. They were planning these things. That night, when I took the violence level test, my army was out of control because I knew about the army. It wasn't like that. They were planning to kill a few prisoners on the street. Because the army had fought in the past. Many Chinese generals were still alive. If the people saw blood, they would collapse. But on that day, the people in Beijing were crazy. They were risking their lives to protect the students. They shot so many people and posted it on the Internet. I was so angry that day. But I wasn't there. We had killed many people in various places. There was one person who was killed in Muxi. Those three people were also killed. They helped me and kept telling me about the situation. They called me by BPG. They called me and told me what was going on. BPG was as convenient as a cell phone. So, on that day, 35 years ago, there were two aspects. One aspect was that to pursue democracy and freedom, we had to kill the students, the streets, and the people. On the other hand, I kept telling myself that I wanted to win Tiananmen Square. If I won Tiananmen Square, you would know that you were defeated. In fact, many people don't talk about this. Many people who went abroad were very popular. At that time, more than 80 or 90 countries all over the world supported democracy and freedom, including Taiwan, Eastern Europe, and the former Soviet Union. Some people said that although the 80 or 90 people were suppressed, they lit the fire of their success. However, those who went abroad were welcomed and respected and surpassed those who succeeded. They won, but no one thought they were successful. If you come to Tiananmen Square, the presidents of all countries and the Congress will welcome you and give you opportunities. The media will interview you. It's true. Some big shots come out and say that they are respected, and some people are respected. However, we, the losers, are different. We, the prisoners, are different. We really have to taste the bitterness of failure. When the winners are in God, you know they won, so you sit on the throne. At that time, I said that I was not suitable to look back on a great historical event. Because if we want to win in Tiananmen Square, we will see a group of people who were engaged in sports on the one hand, had a noble ideal and pursued the spirit of forgetfulness. On the other hand, they had a weakness. What was the weakness that caused us to lose every opportunity? These are the things that I think about a lot. These things can only be told to those who want to continue doing business, not to those who want to receive a great spiritual education. You know, I'm not a person who likes to be in the spotlight for a long time, so this year is here because I'm not suitable to give this kind of traditional education to young people. It's been 35 years. We see that the CCP has been covering up the historical truth. Why is it so afraid? Let me tell you, I think it doesn't matter if it doesn't know this kind of thing. If it doesn't know it now, it will be more shocked in the future. It's like water. You know, if you want to block the water, one day you can't block it. The higher the water is, the more it will rush down in the future, the more it will collapse. I often see these pink people. I know a lot of people don't like pink people and scold them every day. Sometimes I don't scold them, sometimes I make fun of them. It's very simple. I used to be a pink. When I was a kid, I used to make fun of Mao Zedong. I finally came back to make fun of Mao Zedong. I think I might be more loyal to Mao Zedong than those in the Taliban. But that's because we were deceived very badly back then. So later on, I hated those who lied to us. You just have to remember this. In fact, people are ordinary people. As long as one day they recognize their face, no matter how badly they are deceived today, no matter how big it will be tomorrow, they will take revenge on those who deceived them. So I think it's a bit like saving money. It's like the power of the city. The higher the power of the city, the greater the power of the city in the future. All that the Communist Party is doing today is burying our future. It's storing energy. Unless it really represents the historical direction, it represents justice. So in the future, we all know that it is obviously not. The more evil it is today, the more miserable it will be. This method will accumulate greater energy in the future. On the one hand, those who oppose it are getting angrier and angrier. And those who are deceived will wake up one day and realize how miserable they are today and how much hatred they will have tomorrow. So I'm saying I'm not afraid at all. It's just a matter of time. The later it is, the more the Communist Party will be hostile to those who are deceptive and violent. In the winter of 2022, many young people came out and raised a white paper to protest against the promotion of white paper. They also shouted the slogan of the white paper movement. Do you think it is comparable to the election of 1989 At that time, they hoped that the Communist Party would improve, including the introduction of three students and the kneeling ball. But now, in 2022, the students raised the white paper to protest and they publicly shouted the slogan and demanded the promotion. Do you think the young people are more awake than they were at that time? I think from a practical point of view, today's young people must be braver and more motivated than before. The Communist Party does not deny that you can do this because the Constitution stipulates these things. Hu Ping said that the Communist Party is a liar, but a very strange liar. Other liars lie to you to make you believe them, but the Communist Party actually lies to you to make you believe it. For example, the third article of the Constitution states that you have freedom of speech. If you say that the Communist Party lies to you, you will be arrested. If you really believe that the Communist Party has freedom of speech, you will be punished. So these students are very strange liars. I think the students at that time actually didn't know that the Communist Party really lied to them and that the Constitution had the power. Today's young people know that they don't have this power , so they have to go to the streets to prepare for certain risks. Of course, it is not comparable to the generation after generation. Because I am now in contact with a lot of people I have been in touch with them three times in my party. They said that they did not have so many political ideas at that time, but they were just dissatisfied with Feng Cheng. You know, when people are angry, when they quarrel with their children and mothers, a lot of harsh words can come out of their mouths. It's not that they really want their mother to die. So I think some young people say this, but they don't know how bad the Communist Party is. For example, I said that the results will definitely be shot at the end of the month. They don't believe it. Why do I believe it? Because I know more about the party. The Communist Party will not allow them to do this. And I know that Deng Xiaoping will definitely do it, but they don't know. They still have certain illusions They still think it's not that cruel, it's not that bad. They know it's bad, but they don't take it seriously. Now the young people know how bad it is, but they don't take it seriously. For example, I have been leading people on the streets of New York and the United States for more than ten years. In 2019, when we had a conflict with the Communist Party on the street and they beat us, we called the police and ambulance to the hospital. In November last year, when I led people to Jiujingshan, there was no one to back up or call the police. No one. You know, the young generation is different from the previous generation. For example, in New York, many of them are single mothers and many of them have children. Their parents have been working outside, and their children come from low-income families. They grew up in an environment without social warmth. So I think what the Communist Party will face in the future is that the people of the 1980s were against the Party's reward. I think if we continue to be so harsh on them, they will know that the Communist Party will not reward them. The Communist Party will face a worse end than them. The death of the 1980s may have been more dignified. They were given clothes and coffins. Right? It was more dignified. But now I think they will be burned to death. They will be beheaded. This is what the Communist Party will face in the future. They deserve it. They killed the reward. If the people don't accept it, they will not be rewarded. In general, I think the skin of the 1980s is the reward. Now people know that the Communist Party is not rewarding. So sometimes we need more courage. But on the other hand, the Communist Party will face a worse end than them. The Constitution is supplemented by the Constitution. But the Constitution doesn't care about the mainland. At that time in Taiwan, the Constitution was supplemented by the Constitution. So the Constitution was a petition to see who the Executive Yuan should be responsible for, the Legislative Council. The Executive Yuan should be responsible for the Legislative Council. For example, the President of the United States should accept Guo Qing's kiss. But the Executive Yuan in Taiwan doesn't have much power. We all know that it is still in the hands of the President. So the President should answer the question. Of course, in the United States, for example, the President will go every year. This is Trump's character. But he didn't say that he would definitely go. It's just a tradition. Because the US government tradition is based on history. Taiwan is not like this. You can't think of this. It is not necessary for the DPP to lose the Legislative Council. He can win the Legislative Council. If he wins the Legislative Council, this clause is not harmful to him. The constitutional clause is in this place. In fact, it is not specific to which party. In this term, it may be good for you. Do you consider the next term? You are not the President of the Legislative Council. The President is you. So I think the rule of law should be negotiated. The most important thing is to see what will happen in the middle of the operation. The only reason is that there may be a constitutional crisis. This can be considered. If the Legislative Council and the President don't go down, what will happen? There will be such a problem. In short, the constitutional rights constitute the constitutional rights. This is what should be. But now, there is a very specific opposition. The President is in the hands of the Democratic Party. If not, there will not be such a problem. Why? For example, there are now presidential and cabinet positions. The Prime Minister is elected by the majority of the Parliament. So he is the same as the Legislative Council. If he is not the majority, he will be dismissed. There are two options. One is to resign. The other is to be elected by the Legislative Council. But there is no such thing in Taiwan. What do the people of Taiwan oppose now? Black box. They think that some terms have not been taken out. They don't even know. They want to forcefully pass. They want to see procedural justice. But what is the benefit of the black box? In fact, the speed is fast. For example, 1 degree, 2 degrees, but it is still 3 degrees. 300,000 Red Mountain Army will come out to protest. 300,000 Red Mountain Army will come out to protest. To be honest, the most important thing depends on the rules of the Constitution. In fact, I think it is good for everyone but not good for everyone. It is not like a specific policy. For example, if this policy says that the People's Party will be restricted today and the People's Party will be restricted tomorrow, this is not fair. In fact, I think as long as the rules are like the rules of the game, the ping-pong ball was so big and now it is so big. Anyway, it just says that some people today are suitable for this way of playing. I don't know who will be the next generation. I think in Taiwan, the Constitution is really a big problem. It needs to be restricted. If it is not restricted, for example, in the U.S., the U.S. Senate has more than two-thirds of the seats in the U.S. Senate, so it can legally deny the president. It can deny the president. The U.S. Senate so it can legally deny the president. After the president denies, it can pass the president with two-thirds of the seats. Because this is the law. In Taiwan, the Taiwan Constitution has not been implemented. It is supplementing the terms. The Taiwan Constitution has a problem. It assumes Nanjing is the capital of the whole of Mongolia. This is not realistic. The Democratic Party has repeatedly emphasized that Taiwan is actually Taiwan. Don't talk about such a big thing. Last year, you, Wang Dan, and Liu Junying held a series of parliamentary meetings until this year. They have been held since March. What kind of necessity is there to get some information or to feel whether the CCP will collapse soon? Yes, we think the CCP is going to collapse. And today, the more solid it is, the more solid it is in terms of dictatorship, everyone knows it's fake. Those who sing praise songs are not really singing praise songs. It's different from Lao Mao. Lao Mao is very admirable. A lot of people were killed by Lao Mao and cried for his long life. However, we think the CCP is going to collapse. And now, this solidness clearly shows that there can be no opposition at all. It will be very dangerous. So we have to consider what China should look like after the Communist Party. This is the most important thing about our parliamentary meeting. And when the Communist Party is over, because a politician repeatedly proved that in the past 300 years, almost every country has experienced a democratic revolution. But today, only a few countries are experiencing a democratic and mature movement and bring benefits to the whole society. Most countries are experiencing a lot of pain. Otherwise, they will fall back. There are new autocracies, like China, which often uses the Communist Party to fight for power, which is worse than Manchin. There are other countries that have been suffering in the swing of power. It means that they are all thinking about some problems so that the transition process will be disrupted. So we think after the collapse of the Communist Party, what kind of country should China build? Second, how to get through this country? Because in this transition period, I will give you a simple example. After the collapse of the Communist Party, a lot of things will happen in society. The Communist Party is a big gang, but there are many small gangs suppressing it. Don't think that the collapse of the Communist Party is a curse. For example, the Iranian students overthrew Khomeini and we became democratic. Khomeini overthrew Balevi, and Balevi overthrew Khomeini and came back. It's worse than Balevi. Back then, the students and intellectuals thought that the Republic was not democratic. After the Republic was overthrown, they became democratic and came to the Communist Party. So I think we have to do a good job. We must deal with the transition problem well. You have to build a good country from an old country to a new country. How do you maintain social stability? The police have been a bad part of the system in the past. For example, the Falun Gong is being investigated. How many police officers are on this list? On the other hand, can you build a new police force These problems need to be studied. How can we maintain the country and society and maintain peace? At the same time, you have to investigate and punish those who commit crimes. I think all the issues, including labor inflation, unemployment rate, foreign trade, enterprises, need to be discussed. This is the purpose of democracy. The Communist Party is about to collapse. What will the country look like after the collapse? How can we overcome these problems? How can we solve all the problems of the transition period?