Chair Rodgers & Rep. Hern Join Scripps News To Talk About Protecting U.S. Data and National Security

thank you Jay with over a billion subscribers since its launch back in 2016 Tik Tok has quickly become one of the biggest and most popular social media apps anywhere on the earth it is now worth over $200 billion dollar launching trending dance crazes as well as businesses from creators and influencers all of that at least in the United States could be on the verge of being wiped out thanks to a bipartisan group of lawmakers who are getting closer to having the china-based app banned because of its potential use for Chinese Espionage joining us now Kathy McMorris Rogers chair of the house Energy and Commerce Committee and also Oklahoma representative Kevin Hearn who is one of the co-sponsors of the bill good morning to both of you thank you so much for giving us some time here on morning Rush certainly appreciate it can you explain to our viewers just as a starting point um why congress with the support of the president is making this move to ban Tik Tok I do want to delve deeper into former president Trump's quickly evolving position on this and some fresh reporting that's worth noting uh there's been a dramatic about face and Trump obviously has a lot of sway over the party look at the immigration bill for example we'll get into all of that but first Tik Tok in and of itself can you just Express to the average Tik Tok viewer at home why you good folks on Capitol Hill are so concerned yes uh Tik Tok has been repeatedly caught in a lie I'll let the cheer while go the Chinese com congresswoman continue s hear yes congresswoman the Flor yes uh so Tik Tok has repeatedly been caught in a lie that it is not beholden to the Chinese Communist Party through bite dance it's parent company and we know that we cannot trust the Chinese Communist Party they're collecting a massive amount of data so they can Target they manipulate they surveil and they can all in essence control what Americans uh see on Tik Tok uh we saw it last week even when we were when we were voting on the bill in the committee when they blocked blocked Tik Tok users from getting onto the app until they called their member of Congress so Tik Tok and ultimately the Chinese Communist Party cannot be trusted they cannot be trusted to safeguard our data or to uphold American values of Freedom so this is a n we see this as a national security threat uh this is a tool this is a destructive tool that is controlled ultimately by the Chinese Communist party uh it is this bill will force Tik Tock to make a choice so Tik Tok will either have to choose if it wants to maintain the current relationship that it has with bite dance and ultimately being controlled by the CH Chinese Communist party or uh the legislation would force it to divest which means it would have to sell and and and break away from bite dance in order to remain operating in the United States of America it's tick tok's choice to make and Kevin I I want to ask you about what Rob was just talking about we know that President Biden supports the legislation inv vows to sign the bill into law uh president Trump on the other hand has done some shifting on his stance now raising some concerns that um his indication that he may not be supportive of an allout Tik Tock ban uh we heard from Lindsey Graham um he was talking to Meet the Press and he's conflicted about this situation so let's take a quick listen to that banning Tik Tock um maybe that's necessary to protect American data from China but if you find a way to avoid that that'd be good too you were a strong supporter of it in 2020 though do you no longer no no I I understand people like Tik Tok I would like to keep Tik Tok running but not have our data used by the communist chines how you vote on this I don't know yet I mean I'm just being honest with you I am definitely conflicted so much like the uh immigration Bill Trump said something and said that it was not a good idea for the party at the moment um and and things change so do you have any concerns or worries that uh Trump will sway your colleagues against the ban and that he may have too much control right now no no in fact um you know I think if you're a republican you agree with everything that the president the former president said that you know Facebook and others we we saw what happened uh with what they did in the election and certainly you know there's concern we had the uh Director of National Intelligence just come out two days ago saying that there is credible evidence that Tik Tok is going to be used to interfere with this election you know there was a time in this country we sought out during the Cold War we sought out spies we don't have to seek them out now they're they're in every household you 150 million households Across America now and let's I think we need to be perfectly clear and the chairwoman said this we're not out to ban Tik Tock we're out to ban the ownership of Tik Tock by the Chinese Communist people and that's what's really important to know is that you know president X acts like he's the you know free democracy and he's the president of that his his official Tittle is the general secretary of the Chinese Communist party and I think we need to understand what we're dealing with here is a an adversarial Nation as described by Congress one of the five being China Russia North Korea Iran and Venezuela and we're just saying that China cannot own Tik Tok if it's going to continue to do business in the United States of America and congresswoman there's always that feel like there's always certain issues that you know Congress wants to inject itself in and and I understand there's some urg here um but I at the same time I also wonder this thing's been around for 8 years makes a ton of money with a ton of people is the horse already out of the gate on this one has China already inflicted the damage that it wants to allegedly well the concern only grows we had a hearing last year almost a year ago with the CEO of Tik Tok where uh the concerns among Republicans and Democrats were only heightened we have been spending months drafting this legislation it's a very targeted specific approach and clearly this is uh it's it's a it's a it's been a difficult bill for us to write and that's why it has taken us some time to get the Constitutional experts to to look at this bill to have we've had several drafts but what we have now is a very targeted specific approach focused on apps that are controlled by Foreign adversaries and so this is about foreign adversaries that are seeking to to destroy America and us taking action to protect America and protect American user data on these apps it is critical that we take action and that is why you saw a a 50 to zero vote in the Energy and Commerce Committee last week uh Republicans and Democrats coming together to say we need to take this action in order to protect the United States of America China we know the Chinese Communist Party surveils uh its own citizens and seeks to control its own citizens uh America believes in Freedom and we must be taking action to protect American freedom and this time it means taking action uh on on Tik Tok and other apps that are controlled by Foreign adversaries and I would also say we share president Trump's concerns about meta and other big tech companies and and what is happening on those platforms we are working uh to on privacy data security uh uh legislation to address that this is legislation that's focused on apps that are controlled by Foreign adversaries and it needs to pass as soon as possible and let me just clarify before we go I I want to ask both of you both of you are Republicans I want to ask you this question there's fresh reporting out that it may not be just about Facebook that Trump is Con concerned about and his opinion let's face it is is important he's going to clinch your nomination today and could be president the United States again the first time is in the over office he asked for um wanted an executive order to ban uh Tik Tok in America that didn't happen and now those press reporting that he met earlier this month uh with a major um GOP Mega donor other words a very wealthy man who has a major Financial stake in Tik Tok who's against this ban and then literally hours later came out and said or very shortly afterwards oh no no I'm not for the band after meeting with this Mega donor my question to you so I want folks to have the context of Trump's position on this if Trump sticks with this position that I don't want this ban to happen will you both vote for it even against the wishes of your your presidential candidate when President Trump was was in the Oval Office he sought to force Tik Tock to divest to sell to separate from bite dance which is controlled by the Chinese Communist party uh we are continuing action this is not Banning Tik Tok Tik Tok will have a choice to make as to whether or not it wants to continue to to operate under its current ownership structure ultimately controlled by the Chinese Communist party and then therefore uh not be allowed in the United States or if they divest and there there would be opportunities for others to to potentially purchase Tik Tok they could go public in the United States Tik Tok could continue to operate it would have to be separated from by dance which is controlled by a foreign adversary the Chinese Communist party and that is listed in the bill this is Tik tok's choice to make and I think so this bill has your support regardless of of Trump's public posture this bill has your support regardless of absolutely this legislation needs to pass and we shared president Trump's concern about other big tech companies including meta and we're working on legislation to address and protect America's privacy and data security fair enough Congressman last word goes to you same question oh absolutely in fact uh the Banning of uh the ownership of Tik Tok by the Chinese party is it's just part of a broader bill that I introduced last week encountering communist China and what they're doing on the southern border what they're doing with the belt and Road initiatives what they're doing in funding Iran and what they're those and you know funding Russia and the chips that go into the drones uh that are bombing Ukraine right now so this was a broader a piece of a broader piece of uh legislation that we put forward last week but absolutely and I think the president you know when you talk about banning Tik Tock as the chair Walman said you know there's not many things happen in a bipartisan way in Washington DC and I would argue it wasn't just bipartisan it was unanimous and so when you look at the data that's going on about what China is trying to do to us in the National Security front you couple that with they're leading um they're being a leader in the industry of AI uh it's AI can only exist if you have a lot of data and certainly what the chairwoman did in the Energy and Commerce Committee is truly remarkable in the day of the partisan politics that's going on in Washington DC all right Kathy MCM Morris Rogers chair of house Energy and Commerce Committee and representative Kevin Hearn thank you both for your time we appreciate it