LIVE: Senate Veteran Affairs Committee Hearing on Honoring Veterans at Ceremonies 2024-02-28 22:12

We talk about you a lot back home, most of it's true. I'm surprised I'm not an honorary citizen of North Dakota, much time I've spent there. You should be. Well, first of all, I mean, I need to say thank you, obviously, for coming through. Once we came through with the legislation, you came through big with the help at Mandan with the State Cemetery and the Columbarium, and it's made a world of difference. And it's a spectacular place, as you know. I guess I'm as interested in anything, just in your thoughts going forward. You're familiar with the situation in Fargo with the National Cemetery, another spectacular facility. But as you know, there are a lot of people that love to partner up. Sometimes they have the money, sometimes they have the will, sometimes the direction gets in the way. Maybe if you could just share a little bit, first of all, with me, while we're in front of all these people, about the Fargo situation, how you see that partnership playing out. How can I, and I know Senator Olman, be helpful so that we get the outcome that we want, I think that you want, that your administration wants, and keep everybody happy. Hey, Senator, we've worked hard on Fargo, as you know. And land is an issue at our rural cemeteries. We initially bought five acres at Fargo for our National Cemetery. The landowner said, hey, I may sell all of this, this may be subdivided. And so we jumped at the chance to acquire another 29 acres there, adjoining and around Fargo National Cemetery. So that will keep that cemetery in operation for years and years to come. That was a good move. Currently, we're working, not unlike Senator Manchin's point about communal shelters, and we did add some walls around the communal shelter at Fargo, the communal shelter, the outdoor one we had built. But we continue to work with Senator Holman if on the community interest of donating funds for potentially a Mandan-like facility, that's kind of where we're going, what would it take? And so we're working that through our legal department, we're working it through our cemetery operations department to see how can the community donate either the funds or a building, what it would take to build out that additional 30 acres. So we'll need to go through some planning on that. But certainly the community interest in Fargo is incredible. The support of that cemetery is incredible. And that's really what makes the cemetery shine is when you have community support like we have in the Fargo community. Well, and I appreciate that. Regardless of what these two guys say, it is colder in Fargo than either Kansas or Montana. And so good facilities are really... And Angus, well, you have never seen flat. He thinks mine that's flat, just so you know. He has no idea how flat it is. Typically, the dogs will run west of Montana out of North Dakota. So the facilities do matter. And I do appreciate your patience with us. But at the same time, I'm glad you're having this discussion as it's coming up because I do think we have to be innovative. And I know that it's hard in the bureaucracy sometimes to do that. But if there's ways we can be helpful, whether it's policy-wise, much like we did with the Equity Act, or with people who have the enthusiasm, the interest and resources to make improvements, we wanna help them be able to do that. And we don't want the bureaucracy to get in the way. And I appreciate anything we can do. I think Fargo has pushed us, actually, in terms of rural cemeteries. And what should a rural cemetery look like? When the rural cemetery program was initially started, it was gonna be a very small plot, not very many burials or not very many interments. We'll have a committal shelter, a flagpole. Really, that's it. So Fargo pushed us to... We knew we needed a maintenance or a storage facility. Fargo pushed us to put in a toilet. There was no toilets there. I think there was a port-a-pot for a while. So we built a toilet, actually froze this winter in North Dakota, with the North Dakota winter. But we're gonna continue to look at what is a remote or a rural cemetery? We're building one in Elko, Nevada. We're gonna be building one in Cedar City, Utah. We have to continue to do that. And I would credit Fargo and the community there to say, hey, Quinn, we think a rural cemetery should be a little bit more than what you have there. And we'll continue to work through that. Appreciate it, thank you. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman, thank you. If you're ready, Senator Sheldon. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, I'm ready. Go ahead. Okay, thank you. Mr. Undersecretary, thank you, sir, for being here. And I want to begin by thanking you and your team. We got that cemetery on Metlakatla. It's a very unique place in Alaska, as you know. It's our only reservation. We only have one Indian reservation in Alaska. It's on an island in Southeast Alaska called Metlakatla. And as you know, sir, the Alaska Native community serves at higher rates in the military than any other ethnic group in the country. So this was a huge deal. You guys did a fantastic job. I was there for the opening ceremony, which was so beautiful. It was an unbelievable blue sky, not cloudless sky day. So that's where you guys have done a great job. Now I'm gonna ask you to help me on a couple other things that are important. So my state has more vets per capita than any state in the country. So these are really important issues to my constituents. The first one, and you might be aware of it, I'd just like to get your commitment. We have a national cemetery on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, but that's on the military side of the base. And it's a really, really difficult process to have families go visit their loved ones who are buried there. Matter of fact, not to be too morbid here, but that's where I intend to be buried. And I want my kids to be able to go see me. And it's a really challenging situation, shouldn't be. We've talked to you guys before, the military folks, there's a way to do it. There's a road that could access this. It wouldn't create security issues. So I even have draft legislation if you need it to be able to fix this. It's a very simple request. But right now, so many of the people, families of the people buried in this very beautiful cemetery, they can't get there. They have to call ahead and wait in line. And when it's Memorial Day week and stuff, it just becomes a complete, utter nightmare. So, A, are you familiar with this one? And can I get your commitment to work with me and my team and the Department of Veterans Affairs in Alaska? We have a whole bunch of good solutions. We think they're very logical, common sense. And if we can get your commitment to work with us on that, shouldn't be so hard for families to visit their heroic loved ones in this cemetery. Hey, Senator, after our ferry ride out to Metlakatla, when we did that, we did stop at Fort Richardson and visited and actually drove the ground. And from the cemetery director, I heard the same concerns. Families are having to wait seven days to notify the base. I'm certainly happy to take a look at the bill when you have it, and certainly commit to working with you on it. We drove the grounds. I think there is maybe a solution. Anything dealing with the base, we'd have to work with DEI. No, I get it. But I think there might be a solution there at Fort Richardson, and that's what the cemetery director had mentioned. Certainly, yeah, my commitment. Great, thank you. And again, thanks for the Metlakatla visit. It was very memorable. I forgot about our ferry ride out there. Second is we are one of the only states, I think very few states, that do not have a state-run and statewide VA cemetery. The Metlakatla one, we love that one, but that was a VA grant-awarded cemetery, but as you know, that's on a reservation. Hard to get to. So we don't, the majority of the state, and again, a state with more veterans per capita than any other state, we actually don't have a veteran's cemetery. It's just the Metlakatla one, and then there's one in Sitka, and there's one at Jaber, but these aren't state veterans' cemeteries. So the state of Alaska has purchased land in Fairbanks. Beautiful property, and we have applied to receive a VA cemetery grant. However, we keep getting, like we always miss the cutoff, right? I think we were 28 this last time around. You guys went down to 20. So A, we're kind of scratching our heads on how you grant awardees. We think we have a pretty strong application. We've already bought the land as a state, and we don't have one, right? Again, I mean, we're very happy about the Metlakatla, but that one doesn't really count as a statewide one. So again, will you commit to work with me, this committee, and the Alaska VA to get our first ever statewide cemetery, hopefully helped by the VA? Again, we've already purchased the land. It's a beautiful site in Fairbanks, right in the middle of the state, as you know. Can I get your commitment to work with us on that? Sure, you've got my commitment. And I can just talk briefly, I don't have time. But we prioritize the expansions of existing. We don't want a grant-funded cemetery to close, and so that ended up being the priority. But we certainly will look at the establishment criteria. And I know Alaska is sitting out there asking about it. In fact, I was hit up about it. I know you were. They're watching right now. Yeah, Mike. Yes, sir, hello, Alaska. Well, I mean, just to make that point, I understand the, you know, you want to help maintain the ones you have. That makes total sense. But it also makes total sense to help out the states that don't have anything yet, and we're one of those states. So keep that in mind in your grant-making criteria. But I look forward to working with you and our VA and the people in Fairbanks who have already selected this land to make more progress. The way we did in Metlakatlanaw, I'll end, Mr. Chairman, just by thanking the undersecretary again. You guys did a great job on that cemetery. It's beautiful. It's, you know, beyond everybody's expectations. And it was a real honor that you came out. It's not easy to get there, as you know. And it was a real honor that you came out for that opening ceremony. Thank you again. Senator, I appreciate it. You got my commitment. Thank you. Before we let the secretary go, does anybody have a question that just needs to be asked? All right. You are excused, I would say, Secretary Quinn. I just want to express my appreciation for your good work, and thank you for your straightforward answers today. Now we will welcome our second panel up. First is gonna be Kelly Ackerman, who is administrator for the Montana Division of Veterans Affairs. Kelly, it is great to have you in front of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. Welcome. Then we have General William Turner, director of the Kansas Commission on Veterans Affairs. Good to have you here, General Turner. And finally, we're gonna have Michael Figlioli, who is director of the National Veterans Service at the Veterans of Foreign War. Michael, thank you for being here. Did you have anything special you wanted to say about General Turner, Senator Moran? I spoke highly of General Turner in your absence, but in your presence, I would speak highly of General Turner once again. I thank him for his leadership and the tremendous efforts that he and the team in Kansas, his team in Kansas, made to care for those who served our nation. And the reason I asked you to do that is so that now I can say nice things about Kelly Ackerman, who is just a marvelous asset for the great state of Montana and for veterans all around this country. So thank you for being here, Kelly. You have the floor. Correct me if I'm wrong, staff, they each have five minutes and know that your entire record will be, your entire statement will be a part of the record. You may proceed, Kelly. Thank you, Chairman Tester, Ranking Member Moran, and committee members. I appreciate the opportunity to share information about Montana's State Veterans Affairs Cemetery Program. We currently have three state veteran cemeteries all established using the National Cemetery Administration Veterans Cemetery Grant Program. And we've been approved by state legislature and National Cemetery Administration for one additional state veteran cemetery. We have nine FTE that staff the three current cemeteries. Our Eastern Montana State Veterans Cemetery in Mile City was constructed in 2002 and recently finalized a National Cemetery Administration Expansion Grant. It's our Eastern most state veteran cemetery allowing veterans in rural Eastern Montana a state burial option. They have 851 interments filled and they have 2,946 available. Western Montana State Veterans Cemetery in Missoula was established in 2009. This cemetery is scheduled to receive a National Cemetery Administration Expansion Grant in federal fiscal year 2025. They have 2,345 currently interred and 1,052 available plots. Established in 1988, Montana State Veterans Cemetery at Fort Harrison is the state's oldest veteran cemetery and is the largest of the three existing state veteran cemeteries. We just began the design phase of the $2 million expansion grant, which will add 1,680 plots. They have 5,470 veterans and family members currently interred with 446 plots available. Because Montana is predominantly a rural state, we understand that not all veterans and their family members will choose to be buried or be able to be buried in a veteran cemetery, which seems to be an ongoing challenge. One of the most effective tools we have determined to help veterans in remote locations is to educate them on the Veterans Affairs benefits available to them. These VA benefits include a free headstone to veterans buried in a private cemetery, a medallion to affix to private headstones, and potential burial benefits to help with the cost of funeral expenses. Our staff help service members and veterans pre-register for burial in one of our state veteran cemeteries, or help order VA headstones for private cemeteries. These are just a few of the benefits available to veterans during the burial process. As was discussed, we have a tremendous amount of National Guardsmen in Montana. So there has been quite a bit of interest in the Burial Equity Act for Guards and Reserves. Because this is considered an unfunded bill, many of my counterparts across the country have chosen not to participate in this program, which is understandable. However, in Montana, even though we required additional funding from Montana legislature, we are participating as of July 1, 2023. We are funding, we use state funding to cover the cost of the veterans burial since there is no VA plot allowance provided. But we are not able to help the spouses for their funding. The operations and maintenance at each of our cemeteries runs a little differently depending on the number of acres or plots at the number of, depending on the number of FTE assigned. We were successful in getting an additional FTE for each of our three cemeteries during our last legislative session. We anticipate requesting more FTE for our two larger cemeteries through our Veteran Cemetery Grant Program. National Cemetery Administration staff have made themselves available for questions, concerns, or walked our new staff through processes. This is true for our budget staff and our department A&E staff. There are ongoing webinar calls for training and cemetery and information sharing. The working relationship we have with National Cemetery staff is excellent and has provided for a solid foundation. I want to thank the committee for allowing me to share this information with you. And this concludes my formal testimony. Thank you, Kelly. Next up, we have General Turner. General, you have the floor. Good afternoon, Chairman Tesler, Ranking Member Moran, and distinguished members of the committee. On behalf of the Kelly administration, the Kansas Commission on Veterans Affairs, and nearly 190,000 veterans that reside and call Kansas home, thank you for the opportunity to present testimony on our most sacred mission, honoring America's veterans and their families at our state veteran cemeteries. I'm truly honored to be present before you today. Our agency remains committed in honoring our veterans by being their advocates and assisting them along with their families and gaining access to federal and state benefits that they have earned. In addition, our services also include skilled nursing care and internment options at our four state veteran cemeteries. With Kansas legislative approval and thanks to the support of the National Cemetery Administration's State Cemetery Grants Program, the Kansas Veteran Cemetery at Fort Dodge was our first veteran cemetery and was dedicated on November 1st, 2002. Since that time, we've gone on to proceed in the same manner to construct three additional state veteran cemeteries in Markini and Winfield in 2004, and finally in Fort Riley, Manhattan in 2009. Our goal, actually our commitment and our obligation is to provide a dignified final resting place for our veterans, spouses, and dependents that is maintained in a manner that reflects proper respect. Since 2002, the Kansas Veteran Cemetery Program has provided beautiful and honorable final resting places for 5,996 veterans, spouses, and eligible dependents. Including our national cemeteries, we are geographically positioned to serve eligible veterans, including those who reside in our more rural areas who desire to be interred close to home in these sacred shrines. This not only enables the nearby families and friends to continue paying their respects, but it also allows the local citizens to honor their services and express their gratitude as they do so each year on Memorial Day and during Wreaths Across America so that their service will never be forgotten. We appreciate not only our active duty component organizations, but also the Kansas National Guard and Reserve units who steadfastly support our services. In addition, we receive outstanding support from the many veteran service organizations within our state who faithfully provide honor guards, parking, support, speakers, and much more that always make our services professional, dignified, and respectful. In recent years, we have witnessed an increase in internments at our cemeteries, and their support is vital to our success. We perform our mission with a dedicated staff of 17 individuals, including our program director, and together they do outstanding work. But illness, vacations, and retirements can create challenges for such a small staff. Teamwork between the four cemeteries has helped mitigate many of these situations. Inclusive, the NCA also offers great training opportunities to our staff. However, it is impossible to anticipate services, and we do encounter challenges sending individuals to attend NCA training due to the limited staff depth. Alternatively, we have coordinated with our NCA partners in the national cemeteries located within our state to collectively train and remain proficient in all of our duties. Equally important is maintaining our equipment, our grade markers, and making necessary capital improvements to improve each of our cemeteries. We continuously seek to enhance our quality of service for those whom we serve, and so doing, as Senator Moran had mentioned earlier, we did receive two grants in 2021 and 2023 that provided enhanced services for our columbarium walls at Fort Dodge and at Winfield. To better serve veterans and help predict future needs, we encourage veterans and their dependents to pre-certify, which assist in mitigating stress on families and also possible delays in scheduling at the greatest time of need. We presently have 8,701 pre-certifications at one of our Kansas veteran cemeteries. Clearly, the trend for growth will continue at all four state veteran cemeteries. Finally, the Kansas Veteran Cemetery Program has been honored to be recognized for its excellence in performance and service by the National Cemetery Administration. Recently, both Fort Dodge and Bocchini State Veterans Cemeteries respectively received the Stewardship and Operational Excellence Awards for superior performance. We continue to strive for the highest standards in honoring veterans and their dependents at a lasting memorial to their service. Chairman Tester, Ranking Member Moran, we would like to extend our gratitude for the loyal support of both this committee and the National Cemetery Administration. This concludes my testimony and we welcome your questions. Thank you, General. It's always good to have the VFW in front of the committee. Michael, you have the floor. Chairman Tester, Ranking Member Moran and members of the committee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States and its auxiliary, thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony with regard to burial benefits and ongoing efforts for veterans and their families. I am honored to have been asked to be a witness for this hearing regarding an agency of the Department of Veterans Affairs that I feel is often overlooked yet delivers the highest customer service and quality. It's not often that we are afforded the chance during a congressional hearing to focus more on the positives of VA rather than solely on what needs to be corrected. The National Cemetery Administration is consistently rated in the high 90 percentile of every American Customer Satisfaction Index survey since 2015. They most recently achieved a 97 percent rating in 2022, which was the highest score ever achieved in any organization rated by ACSI. This is a remarkable achievement and envious in any industry. I had the honor to serve two terms as a member of the Advisory Committee on Cemeteries and Memorials. This allowed me to see firsthand their dedication and professionalism in serving those who seek to be memorialized in our nation's shrines for their service. The NCA for half a century has had the mission of providing a fitting, fun, and resting place for those who served in our nation's military conflicts. More than five million souls have been entrusted to its expert care. This includes decedents from the Revolutionary War to our most recent conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other places around the globe. NCA was also entrusted with the solemn responsibility of re-interring Air Force Pilot, First Lieutenant Michael Blassie from the Vietnam War, who was thought to be the last unknown from any conflict. NCA has long been a forward-thinking agency despite its mission to look backward. By that, I mean remembering the lives and careers of hundreds of thousands of soldiers, sailors, airmen, Marines, Coast Guardsmen, and now guardians are properly memorialized, not only in acres of beautifully landscaped grounds, but inside the space as well. Beyond physical memorials, the agency has embraced digital innovation through projects like the Veterans Legacy Memorial Project. As a subcommittee chairman for this project, I witnessed firsthand its success in creating a public-facing digital archive where family members, friends, and fellow service members can share memories about our veterans. Balancing privacy and free speech concerns, the NCA implemented a review system ensuring appropriateness and accuracy in the shared content. The Veterans Legacy Program, initiated in 2016, further engages students and teachers across the nation in discovering the historical richness within VA national cemeteries. This program is funded 35 initiatives in colleges and universities, involving nearly 15,000 students, and producing valuable resources such as veteran biographies, documentary videos, and lesson plans. While these initiatives showcase the NCA's commitment to honoring veterans, it's crucial to raise awareness about the agency itself. Often overshadowed by Arlington National Cemetery, the NCA administers 155 national cemeteries, each uniquely reflecting the communities they serve. The Veterans Legacy Program has played a vital role in telling the history of those cemeteries and the individuals interred with them. Addressing challenges faced by NCA, I want to highlight a case that exemplifies effective cooperation and problem solving. In 2018, concerns were raised about accessing the National Cemetery Scheduling Office. Through collaboration with the advisory committee, issues were identified, solutions were implemented, demonstrating the NCA's dedication to maintaining a high level of service. As advocates for veterans, the VFW addresses concerns raised by its members. In 2018, we responded to concerns about inscriptions on headstones in the Southern Wisconsin Veterans Memorial Cemetery. The issue centered around inscriptions like Vietnam, potentially misleading observers about veterans' actual service. In recognizing the importance of accuracy, the VFW called for a review of the policy to ensure accurate recognition of veterans' service. Funding is critical to sustaining the NCA's operations and meeting the rising costs associated with inflation. Adequate funding ensures proper grounds of keep, materials for new cemeteries, and seamless burial processes for the increasing number of veterans each year. The VFW recognizes the need for continued support from authorizing and appropriating committees to maintain the high standards set by NCA. The VFW calls for improved data sharing among VA entities, including the NCA. Efficient communication on veteran deaths is essential for timely and accurate processing of claims for survivors. Investments in technology upgrades or a single IT platform are necessary for streamlining this process and ensuring the effectiveness of benefits programs. In conclusion, I am proud to have been a part of the NCA team and witness its dedication to honoring veterans. The agency, though often viewed as a third wheel in the benefits landscape, plays a crucial role in every veteran's story and service. The men and women of NCA make a positive difference in people's lives during the worst of times with care and professionalism. This concludes my testimony, and I'm happy to answer any questions you may have. Thank you for your testimony, Michael, and there will be questions. I will yield my position to Senator King. Mr. Chairman, I really don't have any questions, except this has been an extraordinary hearing where it's really been so positive, particularly, and I think Mr. Quinn should feel very positive about the response that he's gotten today. Your testimony was extraordinary about customer service, and I just think this is one of the most successful programs we're engaged in, and we need to maintain our support and continue our oversight, but I think, in this case, it's support more than oversight. Thank you for that observation. I think it just proves what happens when you put a Montana man ahead of a program. Senator Brown, let me complain about this committee. Mr. Chairman, thank you. It has been a good, I agree with the Senator from New Hampshire. It has been a, for me, I appreciate what we've heard today. Let me just ask a couple of things. Perhaps of General Turner, you heard the testimony or the request of the Senator from West Virginia. Is there something missing in our cemeteries as far as shelter during the committal ceremony? Yes, sir, right now, two of our veteran cemeteries, we have them encased with side doors, side panels, if you will, that all protect against the weather elements, the severe winds that we see in Kansas and the like, so when it's cold out, and so two of the cemeteries have that, sir, and they're able to provide that care and comfort for those and the families that are there to attend those ceremonies, the committal shelter. The other two do not have that, and that has been built into our capital improvements program this year, and we received the funding from our state and our state general funds, and we are being able to go about doing that, so we are gonna be initiating, going out for a bid and completing those projects here in the next probably 12 to 15 months, sir. I've been to all four of our state cemeteries. It seems to me, as I recollect, there is a shelter for burial in really all four locations, but I must be missing something. I apologize, sir, if I miscommunicate. We do have the committal shelter with the roof, sir, with the structure there. The two of the side, just with the side doors, the side panels, and so two of them did not have that, and now we're in the process of correcting that. Design engineers must have not recognized that the weather does not always come from above. Yes, sir, exactly. I wanted to make sure that I'm not missing something on any tribal issues in Kansas. We would share with Montana and other states significant tribal population. Is there any, are there any issues in regard to cemeteries and tribes in our state? No, sir, we do not have any issues at this time. We do not have any dedicated tribal cemeteries that we oversee or supervise from the Kansas Commission of Veterans Affairs, but we work closely with those groups to provide equal support for them as well. Very good, and finally, is there anything, General Turner, that if I knew, I'd be disturbed by? Anything going on in Kansas in regard to the topic of today's hearing that I should be made aware of? Sir, I don't think there's anything that kind of rises to that threshold that should cause you great concern. There are certainly issues that we deal with all the time in terms of making sure that we are following the right procedures and making sure that we follow through with attention to detail, whether it be with ordering and establishing the grave markers for each of these individuals. If it's the meticulous nature in which we go about maintaining the grave markers at the cemeteries, maintaining the grounds, I think the staff does a tremendous job of doing that, sir, but it doesn't come without its challenges. Obviously, there's a 17-person staff out there that does that work, and they do great work, so. I wasn't, of course, General, suggesting that there was anything, but I wanted to make sure that you had the opportunity to inform me if there was something that you thought helped in solving the problem. And just generally, the Kansas Commission on Veterans Affairs, are staffing levels or positions filled and adequately staffed in Kansas, beyond just cemeteries? Yes, sir, they are. We have received a tremendous influx of folks that have been seeking employment with us. We owe a lot of that to the administration, the Kalei administration and the legislature out there with a 24-7 pay plan with various considerations for salaries and wages. It has helped increase our staffing at each of our veterans' homes. And likewise, that is also applicable to our programs with veterans' services as well. And General, finally, again, unrelated to the topic of the hearing today, my understanding is that our team, including my staff here, are working with you and your team as we try to find a path forward on a veterans' home, an additional veterans' home in Kansas. Anything to report, update me there? Sir, we have the state dollars that represent the 35% commitment of $17.2 million that's been appropriated to us in a line account in our budget. And we have submitted an application with the Federal VA Construction Grant Program to seek the other 65%. We are currently in one of the priority groups, and there's another, a subsequent list that will come out here in the future that will also assess where we will fall in that in the future. But we have continued, so we have continued with our schematic design, our design development. So when the time comes when funds are available, we are absolutely intending to be ready to break ground and proceed. I will work with you in hopes that we can find an innovative way to get us to a position in which that decision and the funding is available more rapidly than it otherwise might be. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Senator Blumenthal. Thanks, Mr. Chairman. I wanna thank all the witnesses. General, thank you for your service, Ms. Ackerman, for yours as well in the Air Force, and your son, Denton, who is in the Montana National Guard, thank you. And I wanna, in particular, thank Veterans of Foreign Wars that play such an important part in advocacy, but also in helping at the state level. I've seen it myself in Connecticut, along with other VSOs, in keeping awareness elevated about the need to honor our veterans, not just in words, but in action, in healthcare and all the other ways that you do, and at our places of burial, our cemeteries. I wanna focus just really quickly on the program that benefits state-funded cemeteries. In Connecticut, we have two. A lot of the time, families really want their loved ones to be buried close to home. Arlington is a majestic, beautiful place, but so is our state cemetery in Connecticut and Middletown. And the Veterans Cemetery Grant Program enables grants to be used to establish, expand, or improve veterans' ceremonies that are owned and operated by the states. I've looked at the list of 69 conforming requests. By the way, one of them is from Helena, Montana, for $2 million. I assume that's gonna be funded promptly. But- Don't make any assumptions, though. None from Kansas, so far as I know. Yes. But very, very seriously, these cemeteries are really so important. Maintaining them, expanding them. Maybe each of you could comment briefly on that program. Ms. Ackerman. Yes, sir. It's the greatest honor that we can provide our veterans and their family members. And we are, that $2 million expansion grant has already been awarded. It had been submitted back in 2016. So it's been sitting on the docket. It took us quite a few years for it to wait until it had been actually awarded. So we've been waiting a long time, but we're going through the architect and engineer phase right now. So it's, the process is long. It's, it can be frustrating for all of the staff. There's a lot of different pieces and parts and moving parts that have to go through. But when it's all said and done, the National Cemetery Administration staff and their grant program staff are absolutely fantastic to work with. And I remember when I was new in my position, I had no idea what I was doing. And I would just pick up the phone and call the NCA grant program staff. And they were fantastic. But when you don't, when you're running out of plots in your cemetery and you need to, when you need to expand or you just need an improvement, like we were talking about when you need more walls for your, you know, to, for your committal shelters. We have in our committal shelters in Montana, we have those walls. And if you didn't have them in Montana, you're hurting because it, our winters are brutal. And so these improvements, these grant and expansion improvements are absolutely phenomenal. If you've ever been through Miles City, Montana, it's flat, it's Eastern Montana, and it gets really windy and really cold. And if we didn't have that beautiful committal shelter with walls so that the family could, you know, nestle in together in those walls, it would be very uncomfortable. Well, they wouldn't get out of their cars is what would happen, or they would wait until the summer and bury them in the summer. So yeah, it's a very, very, very important program. Thank you. Thank you for asking that question, Senator. Thank you. Thanks for those comments. Very important. General. Sorry to echo Ms. Ackerman's comments and we feel the same way, sir. And it is so vital, I think, to the communities and to the families and the friends that to be able to continue to pay respect and honor. When we have these ceremonies out in these local communities, they are highly attended. There may be three or 400 folks that come out to a local community cemetery out there to pay respect and honor their citizens who have served our nation. I take great pride in that. At all hours of the day and night, we know that we have visitors that come in solitude and sometimes out there in the day who come out and to spend time and visit with their loved ones. So I think it's a very critical need to have these in the local communities where these folks lived and were raised and left to go serve their country and then returned home to, and rather than having to travel great distances to do that. So it's been really a great thing for us. Thank you. Sir. Yeah, VFW definitely supports the State Cemetery Grant Program because of geographic areas. You know, I'm originally from Massachusetts, so near your home state. You know, Cape Cod, Bourne is one of the largest national cemeteries, but then the next closest cemetery, that's the only one. The next one is up in the middle of the State Cemetery in Worcester. So it provides that option because they are just as highly maintained as national cemeteries, but it also gives you that option. If there's no room at Bourne or it's too far to travel, then you have the State Cemetery option because it's just as close. Same standards, same training as VA. And VFW is happy to continue to advocate for support for that program. And as a grassroots organization, we'd be happy to partner with you at the state level as well and encourage our department level staff and members to work with your office as well and try to get that line moving and that funding besides Kansas and Montana. Thank you very much. Thank you all. Thank you all for your service. Thank you, Senator Blumenthal. And I want to echo Senator Blumenthal's remarks about the VFW. You guys have a class organization and we appreciate you being in front of the committee today. My first question has to do with Kelly Ackerman. Administrator Ackerman, recently we heard about an issue with the first special service force medallions at the cemetery in Fort Harrison. What I need you to do is explain the issue and then tell me how it was resolved. Thank you, Senator. The issue was, it was noticed that the first special service force medallions were, there were actually 11 of them at the time. They were noticed that they were on the headstones of the first special service force headstones in Fort Harrison, Montana. When they were noticed, it was pointed out to us that it was against regulations to have medallions on headstones. These headstones, these medallions have been on these headstones since the eighties because the Fort Harrison in Montana is the birthplace of the first special service force. And we hesitated on taking these medallions off because it was the birthplace, but we were directed to do this. And so we took them off. The families weren't happy. But as I was directed to do that, I directed my staff to take the medallions off. I visited with National Cemetery Administration staff and I requested for a special exception to be made to be able to keep these medallions on because of the special situation. And I was granted that exception. So now there is a memorandum of agreement in place going through legal review. And so these medallions will be able to be reinstalled on the, replaced on these headstones. Some of the headstones will need to be replaced because some of them did damage by taking them off, removing them off of the headstones. Well, thank you for your work on this issue. I want to talk about the grant funding and I want to talk about the standards that are associated with the grant funding. And this is for you and the general, Kelly. What are some of the challenges the states have in meeting the National Shrine Standards or other challenges? Yes, sir. There are challenges. One of the challenges that's an inspectable item on the National Shrine Standard is setting headstones in the wintertime. That is, you wouldn't think that that would be an issue for most states because it isn't. But in the wintertime, we can't set, well, we can set a headstone in the wintertime, but then we have to reset them all again in the spring. And with our staffing, it's, our, you know, the general doesn't have any more staffing than we do, makes it very challenging. So we don't set headstones in the winter. So that's a challenge. But the other challenges that we have are just with our staffing shortages. That's about the only challenge that we have with National Shrine Standards. With the general upkeep of the grounds themselves, we don't have any challenges. Okay. General, would you like to respond to that? Yes, sir. Thank you. Probably the greatest challenge is similar to what Ms. Ackerman had stated in terms of the staffing and being able to meet all the requirements. I will tell you that our staff take great pride in doing that. And we recognize the challenge and the folks there appreciate it. They go about that and by really teaming collaboratively, they will move between cemeteries as needed and they will serve in different areas where needed to work together to be able to meet the requirements, to go out to work on setting the grade markers, to making sure that it's all being done to standard. The training issue I addressed, I think in the opening comments are, again, with such a staff that does not have much depth. Makes it very difficult sometimes to send somebody away. You can't always anticipate when there's going to be a funeral service and when you're going to provide honors of this nature. So to let somebody go and to do that when you only have two equipment operators at a location and many of these operations require two and three people to do. So what we have done alternatively is to seek opportunities where we can come together and we partner with the NCA and those national cemeteries within our state to be able to achieve that. This is a question of you, Mr. Figlioli. NCA offers a number of burial benefits. Most importantly, they allow burial in a veteran's cemetery with the promise to maintain that final resting place into perpetuity. Mr. Figlioli, how do your members feel NCA is doing with maintaining veteran's cemeteries? Yeah, thank you. I think overall they are satisfied as they seek out through pre-need and other methods to secure that benefit to be buried in the national cemetery. I don't think we've gotten very many complaints in the Washington DC headquarters about that particular benefit. I think a lot of our members are aware it's a benefit. I think they take advantage of it. And as I said, if the NCA portion is not necessarily available, then I think, yes, they're also inclined to look at a state cemetery as well. And we're happy to continue to push that word about access to those burial benefits, whether it's through pre-need, through our social media, through talking to each other. We heard earlier that it's kind of an underused benefit in such a way. I think we are aware of it because we work in that space, but definitely happy to continue to talk about the good things NCA does and the benefits of seeking to be memorialized in the national cemetery. Thank you. A couple of things here. I would ask unanimous consent that my opening statement be a part of the record. If no objection, we can get them as a part of the record. Thank you for that. I want to thank our witnesses for their participation in today's hearing. On a personal note, I just want to say that when I was a teenager, I was asked to play Taps by the VFW for funerals that were held in my hometown. Maybe the highest honor I've ever had. Truly got to play Taps for some incredible people over my life, Danny Inouye being one, and a guy by the name of Lindy Ray being another, who I played for last August, who was the guy that asked me to be the bugler for the VFW. I just want to say that the work that NCA does, the work that these small communities do, the work that the VFW chapters do, providing honor guard buglers is something that we ought to continue to support and encourage and make sure that it continues to happen. With that, I would just say, we'll keep the record open for a week, and we are adjourned.