Krav på en israelisk-palestinsk lösning som redan införts. Enligt Jonathan Tobin, chefredaktör för Jewish New Syndicate, finns det redan röster inom det utrikespolitiska etablissemanget som kräver en tvåstatslösning på konflikten mellan Israel och Palestina när dammet har lagt sig efter Israels krig mot Hamas. Han menar att problemet med det är att vi redan har en tvåstatslösning. Hur kommer det sig? NTD:s Chris Beers från NTD News Today pratade med honom.
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Jonathan Tobin, thank you for joining us.
The Israeli army is bar none in the Middle East.
Already we're hearing talk about what should be done when Israel wins its war on Hamas.
You've said whatever happens, a two-state solution is not really the answer here.
Explain the two-state solution and why it won't work.
Well, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves because Israel hasn't entered Gaza yet to
take down Hamas.
And the debate right now is whether it will be allowed in the long run.
But I did jump ahead to ask the question whether after the smoke has lifted, after the fighting
is done, the United States will begin a new diplomatic offensive to try to do something
to make this not happen again.
And a lot of people are already talking about a two-state solution.
A two-state solution means an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel.
Two states with two peoples, coexistence, peace, sounds great.
Why is it not such a great idea?
Because we actually have a two-state solution right now.
For the last 16 years, Hamas has governed Gaza as an independent Palestinian state in
all but name because in 2005, Israel withdrew every Israeli soldier, settler, and settlement.
We've had this.
And what happened was a terrorist state.
Now, also, Jonathan, MSNBC personality and president emeritus of the Council on Foreign
Relations Richard Haass has said Hamas can't be eliminated because it represents an ideology
as much as an organization.
What's your response to that?
Plenty of ideologies have been eliminated.
Nazism is an ideology.
It was eliminated.
Normally, I'm very down on Nazi analogies because they tend to be used too much and
inaccurately.
Lately in America, everybody I don't like is Hitler is the rule.
When it comes to Hamas, after what we've seen in the last week with these unimaginable atrocities,
yes, the analogy works.
The way to defeat Hamas is the same way we've defeated the Nazis, to defeat them absolutely,
to convince the Palestinian people they have to give up this war.
As noted by many geopolitical experts, in the past, Israel has restrained its retaliation
to Hamas, like you were saying before, calling to resolve things peacefully and prioritize
the safety of Gaza's citizens.
Is Israel likely to bow to those calls this time around if the support for their war starts
to wane?
Well, it has every other time it's been forced into a conflict with Hamas in Gaza.
This is not the first time.
This is the fifth time that Israel has been forced into a conflict with Hamas in Gaza.
Each time, the international community came down very hard on Israel to make it stop before
Hamas was eliminated.
But it's different this time.
The atrocities that we've just witnessed seen on social media, these awful images, the slaughter
of 1,300 Jews, the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust, the Israeli people will
demand nothing less than elimination of this threat.
And honestly, they don't care what Europe says, and they may not care even what Joe
Biden says if he changes his tune from one of complete support to saying stop.
If he cares about Israel, if he cares about stopping terror, if he actually cares about
peace, he'll say, finish the job.
Jonathan Tobin, thank you so much.
