Gerald Hüther - Entwicklung macht glücklich: Den Möglichkeitsraum gemeinsam erweitern

Welcome to a new interview with Beyond Perception. As always, with the intention of learning more about ourselves. I'm Simon and I'm very happy to welcome Dr. Gerald Kueter to the interview today. Welcome! Hello dear Simon, I'm very happy. I haven't had anything to do with a former investment banker until now. We'll see what we can do together. Yes, I'm just as happy. As I just told you, my own self-esteem has changed quite a bit over the past few years. Even to my own surprise. Maybe I'll introduce you. I mean, you are of course very well known, but I'll just introduce you again briefly. You are a neurobiologist and one of the most famous brain researchers in Germany. You are the author of over 30 books with the current book »Wir informieren uns zu Tode« and have been working for many years on the influence of early experience on brain development, the effects of stress and fear, and the importance of emotional reaction. You are the founder of the Academy for Potential Development and have recently been training to become a potential development coach. So I'm happy that it works out today. Me too. You actually automatically arrive when you've been working on something with a little joy for a long time, that it's suddenly such a long list. I didn't make an effort. It just happened that way. But it's true, it has already moved me a little. That's also what we want to discuss here with each other a little bit. I was always looking for something, that's what you call curiosity. But I don't like the word, because it sounds so greedy. In the last century, people have apparently not been able to do much with such people. They have been treated like addicts. That's why I prefer to call it discovery joy. And I like it all the time. And that has obviously been the case since my childhood. If you are someone who just likes to deal with new things and is always looking forward to what he discovers and what he finds out, what should you do with it? Do you have to write it down? Do you have to share it with others? And then something like that comes out. Yes, I can say that in my life there really wasn't that much joy for a while. And when I look at our society, there is a lot of fear, a lot of unfulfillment, a lot of challenges, on the one hand. But on the other hand, I would say that the wellness industry and also the self-education market, there are billions, if not trillions of markets in terms of sales. So somewhere this topic of potential development, many people are very aware of that. But what you understand under potential, how to approach it without perpetuating it as a lack of compensation, that's a very interesting question. You have been training as a coach since September, right? There is a course that is marketed by a company. That's where I did the training. It's actually a kind of training course for people who are interested in helping others and maybe also helping themselves. This potential that has not yet come to light in them, a very special potential that can finally unfold. That's relatively banal. What is happening at the moment on the public level in terms of potential development is sometimes very ridiculous. They don't seem to understand. Most people obviously didn't understand what potential is. Potential is not something you already have, but it's something that's lurking inside of you and could become something. Talent and talent is also something that is not there yet. But when I'm already standing on stage and doing my pieces of art, then I have converted this talent and this talent into a competence. So into a skill. And then that's no longer potential. That's just there. And if you look at it that way, and that's probably the only right thing, then the greatest potential that I ever had or that any of us ever had, that was present in him at the moment when he was not yet fertilized as an egg cell. Even if the sperm has penetrated, not everything works anymore. Then it either goes in the direction of male or female, and then part of the potential is already gone. And if you go further, then the cells differentiate and the possibilities continue to narrow. Then suddenly a liver cell and a lung cell or a skin cell, that's a constant limitation of potential. Every specialization and differentiation step in the course of life is not an extension of potential, but a limitation. Do you see what I mean? You can also express it a little nicer. And everyone who listens to us and watches us knows that. As a little child, you can still remember, you had this whole joy of discovery, this desire for design. Then you are driven into society. And if you weren't as lucky as I was, I was still in a school class at the time. There were four classes in one room. They were in rows of seats, first, second, third, fourth. They always had music together. I don't know how the teacher managed to separate the individual seats. But it turned out to be something for me. Maybe it doesn't matter how perfectly you do it. The main thing is that you have a little joy in it. In any case, that was a time when I was very lucky and where I didn't have to adapt so much to the expectations of the adults and the requirements of the school. Most young people who grow up today have already learned in kindergarten what to do best so that you don't get in trouble or how to behave so that you are loved and praised. But you can only do that by suppressing your living talents and talents, especially your living needs. I can't always jump around because I have such a living need for movement when I have to sit in the school bench all day. I can't always invent something and discover something or build something if I'm supposed to discover and find what the teachers or parents say. And with that you have to suppress these living basic needs. I always call it winding up. It's like a cocoon up there. There are networks that bring it up again and again. And then you notice that it doesn't work and it has to be inhibited. Then you say that you suppress the need. But that's way too complicated for the brain. If you suppress it for a few days, it makes it easier and then it just makes a few inhibiting circuits and they are put over it and then it's gone. Then I can sit on the bench all day or I can sit on the chair all day. There's nothing calling anymore. Everything is fine. I can do the things that the teacher or later the boss says. There's nothing that irritates me anymore. I work it off. It's this hamster wheel mentality. I know that you also experienced it in your investment banking. Then nothing happens anymore. It's actually a half-dead life. And now it comes. And if you've been so entangled, then you can't unfold. There's still a lot in you. But it just can't get out in this entangled state. Then you would have to unwind first. And that's the real term of unwinding. That you try to get out of entanglements into which you have fallen into. And if you've become a professional idiot or a competitive athlete, then you've just entangled yourself heavily. That's not a potential unfolding that has taken place, but something that prevents you from being able to unfold these actually inherent potentials. And if you've become very successful in some area, then you'll never get out of these entanglements again, because everything is going so well. And then you'll have to go on for the rest of your life on the track that you came across at some point. And that's not really fun in the long run. So at some point something gets upset, sometimes very late. And that says, I want to be alive again. I want to get out of this where I always just have to go. I want to live in a world where I'm allowed to, where I can and where I'm allowed to want something. And then people start to develop. But they're no longer suitable for this work area where they might have been before. Not all of them. There are also many people who can develop well without giving up everything right away. If there was a good place, a university or a bank, or whatever it might be, these are often places where you can't develop or develop, where you can only get worse and worse. And then I think it sometimes makes sense if you get the curve. Congratulations. Thank you very much. It took a long time to make the leap, because it was a permanent comparison with what I learned, what it means to be good. But now I have that and now I'm there. If I give it up now, what's left? There was no inner feeling anymore. It was so dull. Yes, I know that. But there are certainly many of my scientist colleagues who have worked there. It was actually fun. You're not without a reason. In the beginning it was definitely fun. It was adventure learning, stimulated. Exactly, you're still being promoted. And then you have the professorship. The ego is brushed and so on. And you also improve. It gets better and better. And when you're still on the rise, you don't even get the idea to ask yourself if that was what you wanted. You may have slipped in somehow. And India used to say something, it was called, go out into nature or make music or make art or do something else. And then you're stuck in this mill. And when someone comes and says, hey, you've gone too far, if people have been so successful so far, then they have identified themselves with this connection, that they feel like someone is coming and wants to cut off their leg. They fight really hard that everything they do is right. And you shouldn't tell such nonsense. You wouldn't have brought it to anything and what kind of arguments would come. And you can see how much people are shaped by what they have found as successful solutions throughout their lives. That's one of those wonderful insights that I drew from neurobiology. What is anchored in the brain are not the problems that we have throughout life, but the solutions that we find. That makes a lot more sense. And when you get the idea at 18, you can knead properly. That would be a good solution, because there are so many who also have a lot of money. That was my motivation. Exactly. And then there are those who tell you that you only need to work hard until you're 40. Then you have so much on the edge. Then you can make fun of yourself for the rest of your life. Then it can definitely happen that you come in and in and then sink into this whirlpool. There are probably only a few who get the hang of it again and realize that they ran into something that wasn't even theirs. And those are the solutions. And as long as it's a solution, it stays in there. And if it is suddenly questioned, because now suddenly something else appears, which contradicts it, for example your deep inner feeling, your true, living needs, then you realize that it collides with this solution. That is then no longer livable. And then people can turn the key. You don't have to go to a training or practice for a long time. That's a decision at some point. When it's ripe, I think you decide that that was enough now and that you try it differently. When I quit, I had some savings and so on, but I was really lying in bed and my body had panic attacks. It felt like I was dying. And I was sitting in there, but that doesn't make any sense, because I'm not dying now. But it actually felt like I was dying. And what I've been discovering over the last few years is like a new compass, an automatism, or actually being controlled by fear, somehow to compensate for fear, and now to put the compass on what could make me happy in the beginning. That was a hypothesis. There was no joy yet. But now it's more and more that it's natural somewhere. But my joy is the same. And I would like to hear how you see it. That there is a lot of fear in between, especially in my way, that fear is not necessarily an indicator of whether it's right for me to do this. It's all been suppressed for so long. And then you actually have to, if you get rid of these old patterns, that means you start to ask yourself for the first time what's good for me. And then I often hear from people who try to go this way, they say, I don't know what's good for me, I don't feel anything. And then it doesn't help, then you have to try with them, or they have to try to feel inside themselves, it doesn't work any other way. But then I know that something is coming. You can also make it a little easier by doing something, that you go somewhere where you can sing together with others, where you can dance. Tango dancing is also a good story. Music, then it comes, then you suddenly feel, hey, there is something. And then you have to, if you feel it again, then it's such a nice feeling, you don't want to wrap it up again. It should stay that way. And then you start to look for opportunities where this feeling comes more and more often. I just call it being alive. And then it becomes, because it is experienced as a solution, it makes you happy, it is anchored in the brain, more and more firmly, and then it overlays the old. And then there is actually only from time to time maybe such a setback, when you meet such an old investment banker again, who started with his Ferrari, you get such a short impulse, but then it gets less and less. You also write in your self-confidence on your academy page that no person is able to develop the potentials in him alone, without other people, without other people. We have many ideologies in our society. They are also scientifically limited, so that you don't even know whether it is an ideology or actually a scientific discovery. So, for example, this ideology, without competition, no performance, or without pressure, no result, but whether that is true. If I now drive someone with the whip, of course he runs faster, but I never get out how fast he would have run, if he would have liked to run. So this example with the little boy who builds such a tower, he doesn't want to build a medium-high tower, always the highest. That means this willingness to perform and always wanting to do it perfectly is inherent to us, so to speak. You don't have to push and push. And if you push and push on the little boy with his tower, then he loses the desire to build the tower. And that's just a stupid idea. So it also applies to many other areas. And that's just an ideology that we introduced at some point. Without pressure it doesn't work, and then comes the next ideology, without competition it doesn't work either. The competition then puts the pressure. And then it is said that without the competition there is no progress, and the whole evolution is built on competition. So you can believe that, but you don't necessarily have to. You can also say that evolution is an increasing story of entanglement. So now we have such a mammal, for example, with a five-beam forelimb. And then with the one it can become a wing with the bat, with the moth a shovel, with the dolphin a raft, with us such a hand. And this is a specialization. From this system, five-beam, then becomes one or the other. This kind of specialization is something that is driven by competition. So on the human level, whether you are a professional idiot or a competitive athlete, you get through competition. But you don't get creative people through competition. And the whole Darwinism doesn't even answer the question of where this five-beam forelimb system comes from. This is something on the level of embryonic development, where this five-beam is developed. And if you look at it with today's knowledge of biologists, what happens there has nothing to do with competition. It also has nothing to do with genetic programs that have to be invented there. It may rather have something to do with playful testing. So on the level of the programs and on the level of the interaction of these cells, the only, the cheapest solution from which you can make the most and they just found it and then they make something out of it. And then this whole Darwinism would basically describe how to specialize or become a professional idiot. And then it wouldn't be a development at all. It would be a confusion. And it's not so easy to help them if they once became a professional idiot. But for us humans it's just different. We're never really done. We could get a curve on the way and could get out of a specialization we got into, for example as an investment banker, and then see and perceive life in its colorful diversity again. Beyond perception. Wonderful. You're constantly looking at the same place. So there's a lot going on at the moment and there's a lot of ideology in it and there's going to be a lot to clean up. But it's true that every social system and every culture has certain beliefs that it needs so that it can stabilize itself. And the most interesting thing is actually always this time when these beliefs come into play. And I think we're experiencing something like this at the moment. This incredible turning point and almost everything that's being proclaimed. Yes, of course, there's a lot going on on the outside, but what's underneath is that somehow these old beliefs no longer apply. So probably more and more people are now on the road and practically realize that you can't grow unlimitedly on a limited globe. So for a while you want to arm yourself with blindness and want to look away from it, but at some point it just doesn't work anymore. And then you suddenly see, we have to deal with something that we have never had in our economic history. Recession. That can't be. Recession is not allowed because it brings the whole system to a collapse. So now we've suddenly arrived at a phase where nothing is safe anymore, where you no longer know where it's going. People inevitably get insecurity and feelings of helplessness and helplessness. And that's all under the headline fear. A kind of fear is increasingly spreading in society. And biologically, fear is a good thing. But fear also means that you're going the wrong way. It doesn't want to kill you, but it wants to save you. So that you don't jump down this abyss as well. Then fear comes and you step back and make the curve. And that's why we actually have to ask, what does this fear want to tell us? That's a completely different question. And it can only be that this fear wants to tell us that we have now reached the end of an entanglement, that it has become so bad that it is high time that we free ourselves from it, develop ourselves. And then, if I put it that way, everyone notices that this is not something you can expect from above, from the parties and the governments. You can do it yourself. You're the only one who can do it. But that also means that even if I now, from my own experience, you hear nice conversations, yes, joy, yes, I feel that's right. But then I look at my daily work and maybe I'm afraid. And now to do what I want to do, even though I feel this fear, that's maybe a step first. But then you can say, the outside will certainly change if we still follow the joy. Or how would you comment on that? What we experience on the outside is a mirror of us on the inside. Yes, but it calls us to do something. That you sit on the sofa and are only tormented by fear, that's not the point of fear, but it calls us to do something. And there are also three possibilities that we have there. These are the three great resources that we can all use to get through such difficult situations. And that always starts with trust. I would have to find my trust in this, sorry, I would have to find my trust and recognize that I have a whole range of skills that I can use now and then maybe I can solve the problem. Reflecting on what you can do is not so bad. Secondly, if it doesn't work on its own, hopefully I have someone with whom I can share it, where I can go, who helps me. This is psychosocial support in English, this possibility that if you don't travel alone anymore, you find others to help you. This is quite eroded in a world where this competition is put in the center and relationships are still determined by what you can get from the other and how you can get it across the table. This with your own competence is also quite eroded because there are far too many people you can turn to for money so that they do it. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are no longer able to free it again when it is blocked or nail it in the wall. They always need a service provider and you don't have the feeling that you are very competent when you have to call for everything. So that this trust in your own skills is not too strong. With your mouth, of course, but when it gets serious, you no longer know how to do it. Many people have become life-hungry due to the services they claim. Many people can't get by without this device either. And the third thing, the great trust resource at the very back, is just as broken. That is the trust that it will be good again. I'll put it this way in general. It has something spiritual. That's also what religions have always promised. But it's also what fairy tales convey when we read these old fairy tales to our children. It's always the same story. At the beginning it's okay, and then it happens or some magic or miracle and then it's good again. And if they didn't die, they're still alive today. That's a story of trust. A story is told that strengthens this awareness in the child that there are difficult phases, but that it will be good again. We don't have that anymore. We don't know if it will be good again. And that's why so many people are so susceptible to what the media tells them. They are flooded. And then they run around like the scared chickens and don't know where to go. And if it gets really bad, they call a guide who shows them where to go. And I'm honestly afraid of that. And that's why I always try to make sure that people free themselves from their self-indulgent immaturity. And that's a... That's recognized. They once said it's not about knowing everything there is in the world, that you're best informed about everything. That's not enlightenment when I tell you how it is. Enlightenment is that you bring up the courage to really use your mind. Enlightened. We all know a lot. A lot of people know a lot. But that they have the courage to use their mind. And Kant took the mind a bit deeper than we do today. That means that they have the courage to follow this inner call that tells them where to go. You can't say that. And that's why it becomes a bit clear that we have become a society where we inform ourselves to death. And less and less know what it really comes down to. This flood of information that reaches us every day is best suited that we don't even know what is important and what is not. Because something new comes up again and again. Everything is emotionally charged with images and corresponding comments. So that if you really take care of it, you are lost. This is actually a huge danger. Because you need, all living beings, every cell and every plant and every animal, they need the possibility if something threatening happens or if something changes in their world, to share the other. In the brain nutrients are released with which one nerve cell says something to the other. And outside in the forest fragrances are released from the leaves where one tree says something to the other. If suddenly a flood of nutrients or fragrances or whatever becomes a flood of words and messages, then it becomes difficult, too dangerous for society. Because then people can't tell each other anything or only nonsense. Then it's just talk. And that's what we've learned in the last two years. There is a tendency to open graves between people or groups of people. And maybe the fear of projecting yourself to blame yourself as a failure or guilty of being paralyzed. But you also wrote something beautiful. One of the self-understanding. You wrote that all people try to make their lives and their coexistence with others happy. That everyone always tries to do their best. Yes, I didn't finish that earlier. I wanted to go beyond Darwinism and competition that we are social beings and that we can't live without others. And that this is also an ideology that we walk around as lone warriors. And everything I know or what you know and can, we have it from other people. We can't even walk on two legs if no one showed us how to do it. We can't talk. As humans, we don't exist in the singular. We are social beings and we have to try to bring this coexistence somewhere. And the communities that we have formed are not always favorable. And you should actually try... They are not always favorable. They are sometimes forced communities. In the past, they were often forced. Because they couldn't do anything else. There was the property and their farm. Everything was related to that. You couldn't question this community. They were forced to stay together. Even the marriage traders were forced to stay together. Although there was nothing going on in bed for a long time. And then there are fear communities. We have already seen them where they all get together and agree that it's only about masks or vaccination. One kind and the other get together and agree that it must have been something satanic that brought it into the world and that there are some dark powers that did it. Then they sit in one corner and the others in the other corner and exchange ideas. And these are all unfavorable communities. And what we need are communities in which each individual feels so elevated and protected and connected that he then has the feeling that he has never grown so much beyond himself as there. Because they all are potential development communities. And everyone tries to get the other one to grow. Also in a partnership. If it's just about sitting on the sofa together and having a good time, I don't think it will work in the long run. But if you start to ask yourself what the partner needs so that he can get his strength and grow beyond himself. That would be an unconditional interest I would say that deserves something like the term love. And there it goes. We often don't even have such communities on the level of partnerships and even less so in the area of other communities. Although I also notice that we are currently questioning these old lifestyles that we knew so well that there are more and more young people who are looking for a new way of life. But it's not as chaotic as we did it in the 60s. A lot of experience has flowed in and they know that it's not that easy and are sometimes very careful and conscious about it. It may be that it works in one or the other case. It's difficult because no one has learned it. But there are a lot of different communities. There is a community where they all give their money. Even the inheritance, if we get one. You notice when you listen to it and look at it, it's nice. They have a joint cash register and a whole purge of electric cars with which they drive. That's 180 euros per person per month. But yes, it's a certain exaggeration when you imagine that you throw all your savings into the big pot and then you don't have to get involved. Then you suddenly notice how you stick to the owners. And that is the most common form of community I had a conversation about the matriarchy two weeks ago. That was very interesting with Dr. Heide Göttner-Abendroh. She described it and it was so far away that she couldn't imagine it at all. But that's actually quite different from what you experienced here as normal. You have also written several times about discovering yourself as a subject and not as an object and not as an object. Yes, that's why I'm not so sure about the matriarchy and the patriarchy. It could also be that the big break in human history came about when people started to become so smart that they could grow grain and breed cattle. This is the transition from the hunter-gatherer community to the individualized communities where no one had any property, where they moved around, where one was dependent on the other. And everyone who could do something was also important. So the herb seller and the trail reader and the fur dealer, they were all equally important. And then everyone came to work and took over the leadership when this activity was just announced. These are really beautiful stories. How did this become so dominant? Whether it was the men or the women who initiated it, I don't know at all. People just learned that you don't just have to collect the grain on the meadow, but that you can also see it. And that was suddenly a dimension that arose because suddenly food could be produced in sufficient quantities. The goat breeder and the farmer were more important for the survival of the whole community than the trail reader and the herb collector. And it may be that this also resulted from the very beginning that the community then listened to what the upper cattle breeder and the upper farmer said. And then you have this transition into the hierarchical order structure. And then something like this may have happened that men were even better at it than women that they used such hierarchical order structures for the maintenance of power. And in these hierarchical order structures, which we have now for at least 10,000 years, this is an old invention, it is often forgotten that a few hundred thousand years before without this hierarchical order structure, that is, a percentage of the entire development of humanity, this hierarchy is a short piece, five minutes on the clock. The rest of the time were the individualized communities that did not accumulate any owners and were not permanent. And this hierarchical order structure is just so that the one at the top can always give the lower one to the one at the bottom. This means that it inevitably leads to the fact that the lower ones are made the object, the object of the ideas, the expectations, the teachings, the assessments, the measures of the above. And that is for the cohesion of society. A society must also maintain an order. That is probably why the hierarchy was formed. They no longer move around, they were now in cities and became larger communities and there had to be some kind of order principle. And the hierarchy is just one that is suitable at first. It's not quite optimal, but it helps. It leads to the fact that the people at the bottom are terribly tired of coming up. Do you still know that from the bank? I know that, yes. It has only one disadvantage and I think it is now that this disadvantage is slowly becoming clear. Hierarchies are too inflexible. They cannot change when the world changes. And the world is changing faster and faster at the moment and that is why such authoritarian order structures with such a hierarchy are not a future model. They can give it again in between. Trump has tried it once and but the age of these hierarchical authoritarian order structures is probably over. And there we have the problem, you can't get rid of the authoritarian order structure from top to bottom with the commandos if the people are not able to take responsibility for themselves. So scared chickens need a rooster that tells them where to go, otherwise they all run away. Unless the scared chickens have become so to speak obedient citizens and then they would know how to walk around so that they don't get eaten by the fox and get lost in the forest. That's a nice metaphor here. If I look back at my school education, I say, we are this here, this range of diversity and in school we were chosen to be evaluated. Not that the parallels just came up and then you evaluate yourself about how much you function in this small section or not. So that was very valuable for me to hear that somewhere in each of us a talent or a determination that I would like to describe again is slumbering. And just to hear that I have somehow begun to open the focus a bit again. Would you also describe it in such a way that somewhere every specific gift, talent, determination in the sense that slumbers in you? Yes, of course. It is only now a special cultural achievement that we have the idea here in this broad range that cognitive performance, i.e. mathematical performance, is something special. And then maybe also musically, i.e. playing a musical instrument, which is then also assessed as highly talented and then maybe also somehow one or the other sport. And that means we don't pay attention to everything equally what people can do and what they can use particularly well in this society. So my favorite example is always spitting cherry tree branches. That is also a high talent, but it is not appreciated that much. But that is a cultural question in the Amazon region where they still have to shoot their food from the trees with the barrel. If there was a cherry tree spitter here from us, because he can do it better than everyone else here, then he would be promoted and he would be the upper barrel shooter. And he would have something to say. Maybe he would even become the boss of the whole group. So that's all very relative with our ratings and our evaluations. And in the current world it is just that we find these talents, i.e. certain talents and talents, great and then also want to unfold them to perfection. And in other societies it is different. And it is only right that every child comes into the world with special talents and talents and that it is a pity when it then turns into a world of adults who do not see these talents and talents because they think it would affect others. So the cherry tree spitter typically is hardly recognized in our world by our parents with his talent. So is there a goal for the potential development? Yes, there is one. This now leads us into a very deep field. There is such a universal principle. The physicists also know this and they say it is about the expansion of the universe and what happens there. It is about expanding the possibilities more and more. Possibilities. So that means the possibility is much greater when particles can interact with each other. If they are still so charged that they still fly away, they cannot interact. And that's why a lot of energy has been exploding since the beginning so that more and more can suddenly interact. And in the end, this interaction will be so fine that there will even be life and they will have a completely different possibility space than a stone. And now a learnable being has another possibility space than one that cannot learn anything. And so you can imagine that potential development is an expression of this universal principle of the constant expansion of possibility spaces. And now it suddenly becomes clear what I said earlier where one or the other probably said to themselves, what nonsense is he talking about? Specialization is not an expansion of possibility spaces. That's a constriction. The performance athlete and the expert idiot And now we as humans have to say, now it starts to get really interesting, we have to say, but we have to be able to afford such specialists. And then the right answer is actually yes, if we could ensure that these specialists and these performance athletes would all be connected to each other, then it would work. That would be like an organism. But this liver cell does not form that it is better than the lung cell. And they are both allowed to do their job and are allowed to find their fulfillment in what they are particularly good at. But they must not forget what they are on the road for. Namely that I can still be a little bit on the road as a whole. And we just created a society in which we have a lot of specialists, but they don't work together. Because this ideology is so widespread and deeply anchored that the competition is necessary and that you have to push the others away. Then it gets difficult. Maybe this question, could you conceptualize it in such a way that the goal, in the sense of the way, so an attitude then arises out of liveliness, joy or enthusiasm? Then you would no longer ask what I want to achieve, but you would say how do I want to be on the road? Do I want to be a loving person or someone who respects his dignity or someone who slaps around without consideration and without dignity and without love? These are decisions that you can make for yourself and give your own existence a certain orientation. So you can also ask yourself what you actually want to give your existence to, what you want to use it for. You have to, one does it for investment banking and thus for making money and then obviously for himself. But then there are also those who set themselves up for the diversity of living beings to remain preserved and they do it for the bees. That's something different. It's not the same whether I direct my activities to what is useful to me or whether I give my activities where it is useful to others. And from this self-understanding the questions no longer arise, right? Yes, there are many questions. Then it suddenly becomes simple and also clear that you can go this way without constantly having to ask yourself new questions. And some people do it that way. But you can recognize them from a distance. These are also people who know what they want, they don't need so much anymore. They are no longer available. Someone can come and say you can earn a lot of money with me. They don't care because they say does it help the bees or not? Then they have a kind of compass with which they travel in life and that makes them no longer manipulable. The problem is we used to have societies where domination was ensured by oppression. That still exists today. So the model is not gone yet. But it has increased and, above all, with the expansion of the media industry, another model has been implemented to ensure domination and manipulation. Manipulation is pretty terrible because the oppressor can still experience himself as a subject and can do something. He can defend himself, he can join forces with others, he can found a party or whatever. But he is still a subject, he still experiences himself as a subject. The seducer doesn't even know that he is seduced. He is still grateful to his seducer and still protects him. Hypnosis, I mean. No, we are talking about Facebook and Mr. Zuckerberg and their consorts who deliberately seduce people. We are talking about advertising strategies that invite us to do anything. We are talking about opinion-makers who make sure that people here believe something very certain and are convinced of something very certain. That's all seduction, I don't even know if I can be happy about that it doesn't happen with oppression anymore. With oppression, you would still have defended yourself. So it's oppression in the sense that you are aware of it, but here it happens completely unconsciously. Here you hang inside and you are offered something nice everywhere and they all think that you have become lifeless and dependent on those who provide you with your aid. It's difficult. They can do what they want with you because you can't live alone anymore. Without a smartphone, you can't live. Or at least you believe together, right? Is that the step to no longer believe in yourself in that sense? The experts also say that the question is not when the blackout will come, but whether it will come. They say it's just a question of when it will come. And then suddenly everything is gone. And then some people will be surprised, I think. With forced withdrawal, so to speak. Who knows if they still have enough candles in the house but you don't have to go in there. The brain is formable and plastic all your life and that's why you can get the curve at any time. And in order not to be available, you would have to ask yourself what you actually want. And then you would have to find a way for yourself and maybe always look for a new one that doesn't lead to a goal, but that achieves a purpose. And then you can stand in front of the mirror every evening and ask yourself whether you have come a little closer to this purpose, to be a dignified person or a loving or peace-making or whatever. And if it's like that, you say, great. And if it's not like that, then you say, okay, then I'll try a little harder tomorrow. But it all stays directed in one direction. You are not someone who can come and convince you of something that goes in the other direction. In this sense. Mr. Hüther, thank you very much for your time and the conversation. Do you have any last words that you would like to share with us? No, we actually talked about it so loosely that I think that someone who is watching can start to think about it a little. You can't change any other person. What we do here are invitations and encouragement and inspiration that you ask yourself again whether the life you lead is really what you wanted to lead. Whether that should have been all or whether something is still possible. And I can say from my own experience that there is still a lot to be done. You just have to want it. Thank you very much for the memory, but also for the inspiration. All the best. All the best to you, Mr. Hüther, and of course to all the viewers. Thank you very much. I hope the inspiration will come. All the best and see you soon. What is my potential? What is really in me? Is it possible to be joyful, to be fulfilled and to express what I really am? Do I have unique gifts and talents at all? How do I find them? If I find them, how do I bring them to life here? Is it even possible to debate what I am and love? These are some of the questions that have been driving me for over a decade. I don't want to give an final answer, but I have learned valuable principles on my search that have helped me to find myself again and to bring what I really am here, piece by piece, to life, regardless of expectations, regardless of conditioning, regardless of limiting and self-limiting thoughts and patterns. And now I want to be the bridge, as you can see back here, and pass on these principles to you, so that I don't just remember you with my words, but enable you to check yourself, to discover, to experience. Self-discovery, self-empowerment, that you are a wonderful, creative being, a genius in the truest sense of the word, and that you have the potential to develop exactly that and to set yourself and your creativity free. That is my mission, so to speak, now. And very importantly, don't believe my words, but also not your possibly own words, but convince yourself, try it out, and join our next seminar, Structural Creativity. More information here. Participation is free. I look forward to setting your creativity free together.