Gerald Hüther - Gewaltfreie Kommunikation & Achtsamkeit

Hello and welcome. I am Andi, host of this show and founder of non-violent communication as an internal practice of on- and offline training. Welcome to Living Compassion, hashtag GFK with Andi, your podcast full of inspiration, strategies and motivation to shape your life and your relationships from the bottom of your heart. Yes, even if it gets really tight. So let's get started right away. Yes, hello to everyone, especially to you, Gerald. It's great that you're here. You are my second guest in my series, Living Compassion, non-violent communication and mindfulness. GFK with Andi in encountering people. In the last few months, I have decided that I want to invite people who inspire me again and again, who walk over the path. In the form of books, in the form of seminars and trainings. And you have been doing that for many, many, many years. You studied biology, biology, biology, animal physiology. I read that yesterday. And German, up to Germany, I live in Austria. Brain researcher and you also focused on the effects of early childhood experiences on the brain, among other things. And you are a book author, you have brought three initiatives to life that are currently very present. The Academy for Potential Development, Lernlustjetzt and Liebevollpunktjetzt. I'll come back to that later, if the listeners and viewers want to take a look. Among other things, I would like to start directly with a book title that is a bit in the context, so my focus in non-violent communication is the inner work, the place before the word, so to speak. The work of consciousness before the communication process. Living Compassion. And a book that you have translated into English, the manual, or a manual for the human brain, is called The Compassionate Brain. And I'm very curious, what do you say there, so compassion and brain, the context, how does it play together, what happens there? That's already a wonderful day for those of us who are watching and listening. I'm glad that we have the opportunity to exchange a little bit. Yes, if you work as long as I do, a lot comes out of it, you can't avoid that. But it has always been a pleasure for me to find out how the brain works, how these nerve cells interact with each other and then also how people are on the move and how they interact with each other. And that's why I became such a brain researcher who not only takes care of the brain, but also of the body that is attached to this brain. I was also interested in that. And then also in these social relationships in which every person is embedded and which then form the corresponding experiences, where he gathers his experiences, which are then anchored in the brain in corresponding networks. So that's how this whole picture is put together. And then of course I started writing books. My colleagues didn't find it that funny, because for a kind of brain research where you have to study the body and also the social relationships, there are no academic journals, there are no special areas. That is, so to speak, exactly the opposite of what has been happening in science for many decades . They specialize in increasingly narrow areas of expertise and what I did was to leave such a narrow area of expertise and to penetrate into the edge areas and everywhere where the field still shines with it. And then it always says, Schuster stays at your service and takes care of what you have learned and does not give us lectures about sociology, there are special people for that. And not about physiology, there are also special people for that. Yes, and then I thought, okay, then I'll just leave this academic debate on the left and write what I have to say about it for people who don't necessarily have to be academics. And then popular science books come out. And that was my, so to speak, the second half of my being a scientist. I say to myself, that's when I really became a scientist, because I learned so much in this time where I had to learn to express myself in such a way that people understand me. It is not natural that you can do that. And then I just started writing these books because I was always very interested in some special topic. Then all these insights about the biology of our brain were really flushed up in the 90s. This neuroplasticity, the constant rebuildability of the brain, became clear. The social integration and the social experiences and how they are anchored in the brain were then studied more closely. And then I thought, okay, you actually need a book like that, where people are explained what is already known there. And then you look for a title and that was somehow a funny title, it should be. Operating manual for a human brain. So a little bit written for people like you, our press and the media sometimes have in view. So idiots who need an operating manual for everything and everything. Who are too stupid to find out how something works, but everywhere they ask how it works and how do I have to do that. You are now pregnant, you know what a bunch of invitations and requirements and information you get, what you have to do and leave during pregnancy so that everything goes well with the unborn child. That's actually an encouragement, but we ended up in such a society and that's why it was a bit sarcastically meant. Operating manual for a human brain. And that's how it starts, I say, we do it here like with the washing machine. First switch on, second and so on. And so is the structure, but it should all be somehow ironic. And then the book went pretty well here and then the English or Americans became interested in it, i.e. such publishers and wanted to translate it and then suddenly it became clear that they did not understand this background irony. And then I had to rewrite that a little bit and then they came up with a title, they understood the content. And the content means that our brain is actually a social organ. It is built up and formed in its structure by the experiences made with other people. And sometimes those are unpleasant experiences and sometimes traumatic experiences, but often they are also very powerful and strengthening experiences. The fact is that without this experience and this knowledge and ability, we would not be able to live at all from others. So the idea of ​​the human being as a single being is an absolute nonsense. And there is not a single brain, a single human brain, but there is still something hanging on it. That is then integrity, being embedded. And you can already see what kind of other form of science it is that is happening there. You can no longer separate the individual from the other, but then it all goes into the area of ​​connectedness. And compassion is to a certain extent the feeling with which you feel this connection. There is nothing for which you have to struggle, I think, but it is something that is actually always there if you haven't broken it. So very natural. The ultimate naturalness of being human. We all come to the world with this basic experience that we come from an incredible connection. It's nice that I'm talking to you right now in this tense state. The baby comes from a state of complete connection to the world and has already made a lot of own experience in the womb. At the moment you learn how to push your feet against the belly wall in order to get a little bit of movement. It learns how you smell, because the fruit that has a certain scent is then recognized by your breastworm, because the same scent comes out. So there is so much that is already learned from the little unborn child. And you could say that these are the two basic experiences. One is connectedness and the other is the possibility of self-design, autonomy. Later it is called freedom. And that is always applied to both as a basic experience. And it would be absurd if you didn't put that at the center of all considerations. And that's why every child comes to the world with the ability to empathize. And I would say it's not even an ability, it's a need. And they can do that too. But if you don't create a space for that by experiencing this empathy of the child as something great, then it's gone. And if you even create conditions where the child who empathizes realizes that it hurts to have to empathize with everything, so parental argument, for example, then the child develops a mechanism around this empathy, which then becomes awake in him again and again when the parents are arguing. And that also leads to the emergence of networks in the brain that this empathy, i.e. this area from which the empathy grows and is controlled, which then inhibits it. Then the empathy is gone. And the funny thing is that if you inhibit the empathy at one point, because the parents are arguing, then it is apparently also gone at other points. So also the empathy towards the friend who is there now, because you pushed him, flew there. That means, what is needed for people to be in conflict when you are together? That's what happens, isn't it? When parents argue, that's healthy arguing. So what does the child need as someone who is there to have a healthy relationship, to be together, to find each other in the, yes, in the mutuality and in the other seeing. So how can you, how is that? That's also possible, isn't it? That you accompany that, to be together, even if it's challenging. I'm such a big fan of simplicity. I think then when we try things, or the other way around, the better you understand something, the easier it gets. Mathematics is complicated only at the beginning. And it is similar in these areas that affect us. And there is something that suddenly makes everything very, very simple. And that is, if you realize that in the brain of every person and of every child, and first of all of every child, only that is anchored, what this person has found as a solution to deal with a problem. So it has something to do with this general principle that occurs in the brain over and over again, because light comes in or you hear something or something happens that is not expected, comes in through each other and then the brain tries, so in every life the system does that, you don't need to have such a conscious brain as we do. So it wants to sort itself out again so that everything fits together better again. So otherwise there could be no life at all, if it didn't have something like that, that it always sorts itself out again, that everything fits together well again. It probably has to do that too, because that is the second principle of thermodynamics, which says that only when it fits together well, as little energy is consumed as possible. And whoever can't do that, he flies apart and the energy contained in him then distributes again in the universe. Wonderful. So we always try to create conditions where everything fits together again. And that's why a child, when the parents argue, tries to get it right again. We just mentioned one possibility of how to do that, if it doesn't work, that they finally stop with it, then it suppresses their empathy. So then they don't give a shit, they close the door and go out and let the old ones run into their heads. But unfortunately, this leads to the fact that in their further life with other people, they can't develop this empathy. And in order to be able to do that, you always need the experience that it's nice to be with someone. Then that's a solution and it's anchored in the brain. And now we can ask ourselves what the parents could do. We are not these parents and we don't know why they are so stupid and constantly get into trouble. Maybe they don't like each other at all, then it doesn't look good at all. Or they liked each other once, but have now noticed that they find each other rather stupid, then it doesn't look so good either. The child can never do anything. The child can be overwhelmed in such a situation. It's an intimidation for the children. Actually, you should kick the parents in the back and tell them, please do it somewhere else and not in front of the child. It only hurts the child. Basically, it's the responsibility of the parents to take care, even if there is a conflict. Maybe because they know that otherwise the most beautiful thing that their child possesses, namely this empathy, will destroy it. In this respect, the damage that is caused by such a dispute is huge. Yes. It is always said, but it may be better, we separate for the child. It's all right. You can also learn. It doesn't do much harm to children if the parents don't understand it in front of the child. Their stupid dispute and their dissatisfaction, also, for example, with work and everything else, these are issues that a child cannot solve. And that's why it shouldn't be expressed in front of the children's eyes and ears. You have to give children as many problems as possible, so that they can find as many solutions as possible themselves. But please only such problems that they can also solve. Too little is crap if parents clear everything out. A child can't learn how to do it at all. And too much is also crap. And especially such problems that cannot be solved at all, are also bigger crap because the child doubts himself and often doesn't like himself anymore. Because it feels incapable to solve these problems. For me, this goes in the direction that I also like to ask, or research and explore this topic of responsibility together with you. You have the first initiative, when was it, a few years ago, founded the Academy for Potential Development. How is that? If I go back to my story, I had a turning point in the mid-twenties, I used to call it that, it was really my low point, I wasn't doing well. And in reality it was my breakthrough. It was the step towards clarity of heart and strength. And I hear that again and again from participants. So that was my way towards potential and exploring myself and exploring and seeing what's going on there. And I'm always there, I'll never stop discovering myself. Where does the challenge come from? To go into self-responsibility is a lifelong process for me and at the same time, in recent years, I'm getting better and better at it. I realize my life is getting more beautiful and colorful. And it has a lot to do with responsibility. To take responsibility for what's happening to me and to have the capacity to deal with how life is. Should I say something? It's something very simple again. As it was said earlier, problems are not anchored in the brain, but the solutions are. In brackets, they can sometimes be pretty stupid solutions. There are a lot of people who are walking around and apparently found solutions when things weren't going well. For example, everything has to be tidied up very precisely. And then they run around as forced cleaners and inspectors for the rest of their lives. These are all professions that get their recruitment. So the solutions are anchored that a person finds in brackets, even if they are not, in the long run, so optimal. And the second thing is, as humans, we can't help but be curious. So this joy of discovery is inherent to us. You really have to do a lot to break it. And as long as we are on the road as discoverers, we feel like you that at some point you discover yourself. This is a story that especially takes place after you have lost yourself before. Then you have to find yourself again. And that's a great success story, also a solution. But I think those who listen to us here can look at it for themselves like a little child. I have such a little girl in front of me who is now four and starts to be interested in letters. That's the bright madness. And now she starts to look and now she realizes that there are words that you read out of the book and then she wants to know the initial letters. Now she can already and now she learns to read and write. With four and completely out of herself and when she does that she is only fascinated by herself. She doesn't learn that because she has to learn to read. Or because the parents are so happy that it's a little more fun when you say, wow, I can even read that. What did you write down here? And then the joy is a little bigger. But in the core it is her own joy about what she is now achieving. And that is the most beautiful feeling that there is in the life of a person that he is happy about what he succeeds in. And that is then destroyed very quickly by us starting to raise our children and then later, as we call it, to educate them or it would be better to educate them for something later. And then we tell them how it has to be done. There is no longer that they discover something and find out how it works, but they are told how it has to be. And that has happened to you and then you have to recognize your own joy of discovery and desire for design, so to speak. It's also something like what we discussed earlier, compassion. So if it always goes to waste and becomes even more harmful, then it has to go. If the joy of discovery cannot be removed because someone keeps telling you what to do and what to leave, it has to go, otherwise there is a constant unrest in the brain, no one can stand that. So networks form in the brain, they lie over it and then it's gone. Now with Corona, the children who were not allowed to go out for so long, that is the reason why the children are half-dead by now. They are running around with the mask alone on the way home from school and no longer come up with the idea of ​​removing the mask. So that is then inhibited and then it can happen, as you described it, almost like an awakening experience, then it can happen at some point in life that you find your way back, that you find this joy of discovery again. Sometimes it happens because you fell in love, sometimes it happens because you meet yourself again through some big, somehow significant event. Sometimes it's about reading a book, that it somehow grabs you and then it kills you and then you suddenly realize that you are living the wrong life, that you have come to a standstill. Older people often describe it as a hamster wheel, they sit in it, that's their life, they sit like the hamster in it and turn in a circle. Yes, terrible. And they don't even notice it. If they notice that it is a hamster wheel, they can at least look where the exit is. But some hold this hamster wheel for life and are more and more addicted to it, regardless of age, that it forms itself again, that it unfolds again through stimulation, so to speak. Yes, but you notice that there is already a lot of old thinking, also in the way you formulate it in it, because through stimulation. No, not through stimulation, but because the interest in yourself is awakened again. It comes from you, it doesn't come from outside, you can stimulate as much as you want out there, nothing happens in your brain. I think that's a basic problem of our current pedagogy, also of psychology, that we think it came from outside, that you say something to someone else, that you explain something to them, that you advise them and teach them. Yes, you can only come to such an image if you think that the other can be treated like an object. What stands out much more clearly now is that in this way you can bend and correct other people in the desired way. But that's not a change that really takes place in these people, it is pressed into shape and identifies itself with the form that has arisen. That's very miserable. But that's all done from the outside. And in this, let's call it matrix, in this form that he has taken, like a fruit tree that was tied to the wires by the fruit growers, he has now taken a form and identifies himself with that form, also brings big apples and bears and so on, but from this form he doesn't come out alone again. And in this form nothing actually happens in the brain anymore. What you have experienced is that you have cut off the wires with which you have set yourself to this fruit tree, to this series of fruit trees. And where does that come from? And that's not a stimulus, that's a revival of your own intrinsic motivation. To shape your life yourself, to take it into your own hands, to discover things yourself and not to let others guide you in life. Wonderful. Congratulations. Not everyone can do it. Some are constantly busy defending themselves against these measures. You are also under pressure because I constantly have to defend myself. And some have had really traumatic experiences that they can never forget. This is also a constant pressure, no one can escape under such conditions. And that's why it's good when we talk to each other, when we help each other. Because in the end, this has been added to you by others. That a person starts to subjugate himself and do what others want or that a person starts to be seduced and even wants what others want and how they want to use him. These are things that you can't do alone. This always happens in the interaction with other people. Actually, it's a social experience. And when it has been anchored in the brain, not alone, but with others, then you have to give people the opportunity to have a different, more beautiful, more favorable experience in being together, in living together, in shaping each other and getting to know each other. But you can't force anyone to want to have such an experience. He can only do it by himself or the other. That's why it's not about stimulating the other, but you have to invite him, encourage him, and inspire him that he wants it himself. That's the stimulus. If he wants it himself. Now I've explained it, right? Yes. Yes, I think so. Otherwise, everything will remain in the corner where Pavlov and Skinner and the conditioning are. The direction, the docteur's doom. So docteurs in the circus. Direction and hairstyles. I don't want that anymore. That's inhumane. But of course we do it everywhere. So now our corona measures. Direction and hairstyles. Like in the circus. Think for yourself, not asked. Let's stay there. If you look at today's world, how it is going now. In Austria there is also the idea of ​​vaccination or the already formulated vaccine obligation and all the measures. Exactly, a lot is being done. If you look there, where do you see the biggest challenge, but also the greatest potential of what is happening right now? I'm a little older too. Sometimes that's advantageous. You don't get to the idea when you're as old as I am that these current social and economic conditions that this is the end of the world, so to speak. And that it will be like that forever. I still have the aftermath of the Third Reich. I have experienced this build-up of socialism in the GDR. I then ran away in the West and experienced how they are on the road here. And if you ... Maybe that's a plethora for everyone, especially if you are a young person, to hang into different cultures so that you can see that everything is different and that nothing is the ideal that you imagine. These are all just transition phases. Man always has to be on the lookout with this time-life plastic brain. Also on the lookout for how he can shape his life together. And of course that's not always the optimal variant that he finds there. An authoritarian ruler system also has a good function at least when it brings order but no one can really unfold there. And if people suddenly, as in our society, can unfold in such a way that they are basically guided by economic interests and if they are actually only a mass for a growth-oriented consumer industry, then I have to say that's not what we need either. These have suddenly become consumers. And then it makes, so I don't find it surprising that such a system, which does something like this, will eventually reach its limits. Just as this East Bloc has reached its limits with its kind of socialism, so this system will reach its limits with its kind of capitalism. And I think that we have and now we experience how a system grows on itself. That can happen. In contrast to this collapse of socialism, in quotation marks, in the East, there is now no big brother who, so to speak, grabs you by the arm and therefore it has become a global process. And then you need something, you need a solution. If everything slips away, you need a solution. And the solution always means in history, you have to scare people about something. And then you can lead them again. They have always done that. That has been the case since Caesar. So probably for a long time. But now this scaremongering is fatal. Because we know that the virus is alive. Among us, you can't defeat it. If you come up with an idea to defeat a virus, you have to be careful in biology lessons. It will change again and again. It will never be defeated. You can only learn to live with viruses. And now you have got into this idea to defeat a virus and to do it with a vaccination. Especially in Austria. And now you don't know how to get out of this situation. How can a reasonable politician explain to his people that vaccination is not such a great idea? Because vaccination does not help against infections. It helps against self-infection. And then people say that it helps against severe cases. That may be true, but I have only seen it as an assertion. I would like to see some numbers. I would like to know how many percent of the people who are on the Austrian intensive care units are actually vaccinated and how many percent are not. The fact that I am always shown an intensive care unit with only unvaccinated people I am a scientist. That does not convince me. So here we have a real problem and I look at the whole thing and assume that the virus is smarter in the end than we or those who have believed that they could defeat it. That will change faster than we can imagine. And it has now suddenly found a very clever solution. It has become much more contagious than it was before. It has learned to change our immune system. It can only have learned by changing itself with the vaccinated who had antibodies. It has learned to change itself in such a way that the antibodies were powerless. And that is now spreading rapidly and is now throwing everything we have come up with into the air. And above all, the vaccination is totally absurd. So it doesn't make any sense anymore. That is why I wish the Austrian government to continue to claim that the vaccination protects and that all Austrians get vaccinated. It is best to make a law that everyone must be vaccinated. That is the best way to finally get rid of yourself. I am very sorry. I have to say that it has brought infinite suffering to our countries. It has hurt an incredible number of people. Maybe we can learn from this and we want to take it positively that we simply have to learn that we are not the masters of this world and that we have to say goodbye to our neighbor and remember that we are something, a life form that emerged from the living process of development on this planet. We are part of this life and that is why we must not use another life to distance ourselves from it or to use it for our purposes. I am talking about the tropical rainforest. The way we behave in the world at the moment is not worthy of a human being. And now comes the beautiful message and that is why this pandemic and everything we are doing wrong at the moment contributes to more and more people coming to their senses, to remember what their life actually makes alive and worth living, what gives meaning to their life. Suddenly such questions arise and to the extent that people deal with the question of what they are actually here for, they can do nothing but come to the idea that they are certainly not here to spend their free time and consume something and buy something, but they can only be here to ensure that the diversity of lifestyles on this planet is preserved. And we are on a different path here. And that has to happen globally and that is why I also believe that this is a kind of awakening that we are experiencing where it is not yet really noticeable, because of course many are still in the old patterns, but a gradual awakening of people takes place, who suddenly don't take responsibility, but feel their own connection with the living. And a very simple possibility to feel this vitality and this connection with the living is that you just start to look at yourself a little bit and you could just try to deal with yourself a little bit more lovingly. Then you would again connect yourself with yourself as the most alive and nearest living thing there is. And then something could happen that most people find impossible, namely that you start to like yourself and then we all know that someone who likes himself and feels comfortable in his skin doesn't just bring happy children to the world, but also moves in the world in such a way that it doesn't become a hate preacher, but a pacifist. He brings love into the world, if you want to put it very brusquely, but not because he strains himself, but because he lives and lives in himself, because he has dealt with other people lovingly, if he didn't do that first with himself. Maybe that's part of your self-discovery process, that you suddenly realized again that you lost yourself, that you lost contact with yourself. Then you start asking yourself again what you actually would have needed, what you would have needed, and already you connect with yourself and that's the way to start lovingly dealing with yourself again. Others do that while eating, they ask themselves if it's good what they eat and where they eat and how they eat. You can do it differently, others can try it on TV, that they just turn off the crap that doesn't do them any good anyway, instead of looking at the sofa like a pig every night. It's better to design it yourself, to look for the button where it's pressed. What are your strategies in everyday life? I don't have any, I'm just happy that I have such a nice day again. I have the advantage that I don't have to run to an institution every day, but I haven't had to for many years. I founded this academy so that I had an institution where I could do this work. The academy was no longer there and there were no research institutions that did something like that that interested me. And so I spend a lot of time in the forest at the moment. And now it snowed again, so it will be difficult to go out there with my wife again for a few hours. You don't do long walks in the middle mountains. And it's nice because then you come back to places where you've never been and where before you, you can see that on the new snow, there was no one at all. I think such areas are great. I like to go where there was no one. That's it. After Latschen, where everyone has already gone, I don't like that so much. You don't really need that. We're already going in that direction. I'm just going to the other one. If you look very briefly into the eyes of your grandchildren and invite your grandchild to look, what is the blue sky vision? The path without a trace, how do the grandchildren see the dream world? The blue sky, the sun. How is the world as it is absolutely in the dream, in the vision from the child's eye? For them, everything is fascinating. That's what I see every day. When they are little, everything they perceive and everything they do is equally fascinating. That's why there is this immense joy of discovery and the desire to design, because it's so much fun to constantly find something new. How one thing fits into the other, I don't know. I think that and what the children do is they try out in a playful way what works and learn how life works. You don't need to raise them and don't need to educate them. You just have to feed them for this game and this playful learning. And yet there is something in it where I also notice that it is sometimes misunderstood, because there seem to be a lot of parents who believe that the child finds something to find in this world. And that won't happen. Because the child doesn't know how life works. Someone has to show it to him. It needs parents who also represent a certain position, who also have an attitude, who also make it clear that they are not objects that can be used. They should then say, no, it doesn't work with me. This doesn't happen with us in our family. These are pretty clear guidelines that you have to set out of love from time to time. And you have to say no to that. You don't make the child an object. You say, I don't want that. Or even better, we in our family don't do that. And with that you can help the child to orientate himself. These are the problems that I mentioned earlier. You have to make as many problems as possible for the child to find the solutions. And with that I think we should start earlier than we have done so far. We always start when it's too late. When the son is constantly hanging out with his friends and playing computer games. Then to say, no, it doesn't happen in our house. It's no use. Then he goes to his friends and does it there. Then it's too late. And then you shouldn't put the no in the room. It needs an offer, a solution. Building a treehouse with children is a thousand times better than watching a YouTube video or TikTok or something like that. Watching a video of how other children build a treehouse is totally boring. So get out into the living life with the children and see if there is something to experience, that there is something to shape. And above all, that you can take care of something. That you help children to take care of something. Here we are again with compassion. You can only take care of something that you feel connected to and where you have something like empathy. A horse, a hamster, maybe also the little frogs. So if you have something as a child that you can take care of, I think that's the most important thing, because it gives you an orientation in life. It helps you to experience what life may be about. That you can take care of something. It's like giving something away. It's much nicer to give something away than to receive something. Actually. Lernlos.jt Liebevoll.jt and the Academy for Potential Development. I would like to mention at the end of our conversation again, would you like to say something about the initiatives? I know a little bit about it, but I like that you, as people hear or see it now, you can contribute. You can be part of it in various forms and be active. These activities that I do on the implementation level, they run together in this Academy for Potential Development. It's a common-use partnership. And I'm happy when many become members. But they have to be clear that they don't get anything for it. It's not a service operation. In this respect, the name Academy is wrong for all those who assume that you are taught and educated there or something like that. But that's what it was originally. It's an academy under the arcades where people exchange ideas and find ways to solve problems that they recognize. And that's why this Academy is the only big invitation that people like to get together and what seems exciting to them. Someone can give a lecture and then there are always a few others who do it with him. And it's always about communities. It's not about the individual. It's about communities with potential development, i.e. the development of the potential in us humans, also in each individual is only possible in a community. We talked about it earlier. As individuals, we are actually not viable at all. Not to mention that we could develop as individuals all alone in the forest or elsewhere. And an essential area of the activities of the academy is and is also increasingly directed in this direction that we bring out initiatives similar to an incubator. Initiatives fly out up there. One is called Würdekompass. Exactly, the Würdekompass. I don't even know how many there really are, but let's say 200 or 300 Würdekompass groups in Germany, Austria or Switzerland, who have met regularly, who have suffered a bit during the Corona period, but some have also managed to do it virtually. That will certainly come back. Another nice initiative is called Liebevoll jetzt. People gather there who came up with the idea that they could deal with themselves a little bit more lovingly and not yet have enough courage to try it out and therefore get a bit of support from others. You notice that there are actually always communities where people come together to strengthen each other. And the latest one is the Lernlust.jetzt. This is an initiative where teachers and other interested adults from one place are invited to join an alliance. This alliance Lernlust, here at my place it was called Lernlust Witzenhausen, goes to the local school and introduces the person in charge and says we would like to help you so that in this school, here in our school, not a single child loses his joy in learning. What can we do? What do you need? Let us know. And then you realize that this is a way to change schools. I always have the picture on the website how a big ocean tanker is on our school system set up in the following century on top of the command bridge. A lot of people in uniforms who see themselves as captains but can't steer the ship for a long time. And now we attach to this tanker side-by-side boats, so tugboats and so on. And they all move in this direction where there is more joy in learning. Then I am firmly convinced that if there are enough people who move in this direction, then the ship moves in this direction. Now we have about 100 such local alliances, also Germany, Austria, Switzerland. But we need 10,000 if not even 100,000. But if at least 10,000 are attached side-by-side, then we feel how the ship moves. And that's what I invite everyone who listened and watched and where I would be happy if many would decide to build an alliance at the place where they are. Either for the rediscovery and the awareness of their own dignity, or for the people in the place who feel like a little bit more loving to deal with themselves. Or for those who say we want to take care of our community in our district or wherever, no single child grows up and loses his most important treasure. The joy of learning. Everything can go away, but the joy of learning must not go away. I also hear all the links to the pages in the show notes, so you can find them there. And I know that there are contact persons who want to contribute. Exactly. And now, Max, is there anything else you would like to add? No, I don't want to say anything more, except that I really enjoyed this conversation with you. Greetings to everyone who watched and listened to us. Stay with you, try to deal with yourself lovingly and please, so that we can move forward, we have to try to make everything a little slower. Everything goes too fast. Calmness is perhaps the right word, because then you get out of this pressure and then this can take place, which we have talked about a little bit, i.e. reflection. It is actually about reflecting and realizing what life really is about. And we have done quite well in our current society. So, all the best. Ciao. My daughter will now say thank you very much. Thank you very, very much, dear Gerhard. Thank you. Ciao. Bye-bye.