Arsenal Beat City, Onana's Shaky Start & Rooney Returns | Stick to Football EP 3

If we're going to win the league, as Sam said, you're going to have to beat City. Grealish and these other lads have done stuff for Pep. Phillips has really done nothing for Pep. Post-Peter, before Vedwin van der Sar, we had obviously Mark Bosnitz, Fabian Barthez, then we had Roy Carroll and Tim Howard, we had Ricciardo, we had Massimo Taibbi. I think we speak more about refereeing decisions now, whereas in the past, yeah, you wouldn't get one one week, then you'd get one the next. I hate that. How casual are people? I think that was a bit of a surprise to me. Yeah, all right, Jim, yeah, I'll have a look. Oh, right, what is it? Oh, Dave, yeah. What, Dave? No, sorry, Dave, sorry. Eden Hazard has just announced his retirement. I think he was one of the best players I've ever seen in the Premier League. There's no expectation on him. How can there not be an expectation on him? Cos Spurs have done nothing for 20-*******-years, actually. Are we ready? Yeah. Yeah, let's go. Hello and welcome to a brand new episode of Stick To Football. It's brought to you by Skyber, and I'm joined by Ian Wright, Roy Keane, Jill Scott and Jamie Carragher. You're already annoyed with me this morning, aren't you, with my parking? Yeah, you took up three spaces. Anyone... Did you see his parking? No, but I couldn't get a space, so that's probably why. You couldn't get a space this morning? It's packed out there, to be fair. But, Jill, you've been in South Africa. Yep, I have. So our campaign that we did went well. Did you not get the call? I went to South Africa for the whole week, all paid for. It was amazing. By who? Heineken. You know, after our campaign. What was the campaign? We swapped Twitter feeds for three or four days. Jill was panicking for a few days when I was tweeting out on her account and she was tweeting out on my account, and it was like a... To prove the sort of abuse that Jill would get over my account, and I think she got a paid holiday out of it, I don't know. It must have went well for me, maybe. Carragher, you've been doing a little fringe event for the Labour Party, haven't you, with Wes Streeting? Oh, yeah, yeah, I didn't know that was going to come up. Yeah, I've just got to ask him a few questions because the Labour conference is in Liverpool. Are you heavily involved in that? When's your speech? No, no, no, I'm not. Last year I was on stage, not this year, not this year. No, so I asked him a little bit of a Q&A for charity, he was trying to raise a few quid, so I think we did that. And why are you not involved? I just thought it'd be better to sit back this year. I was too heavily involved in politics last year. And you're a changed man. Changed man. Stick to football. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Stick to football. And last night I was... You had a go at me, by the way. Did you have a little dinner last night? I was on my own last night at home. Who's talking about? A little birdie tells me you had a little dinner last night. No. Did you get an invite to the dinner? It wasn't. We just came up and I just went out, had some toast at Roy's, watched Burton and Cambridge and just had a... You know what I mean? I'm not going to just come up and not see my guys. It wasn't a dinner, was it? It wasn't a dinner, it was toast. What were you eating? And we weren't together for tea. Toast! What were you eating? Tea and toast. For tea? No, I'd already had my tea, this was about... Yeah. He was late as usual. I wasn't late, I wasn't... Do you realise how blessed you are to get an invite to his house? No, I didn't get any, I just went. I just went to the house. Were you turned up? Yeah. What, he didn't... What's he going to do? You don't just turn up anymore and ring the doorbell, do you? You text them, you check them in. Of course, yeah. No one ever does that anymore, do they? No, you're right, yeah. Just knock on the door and say, oh, hey, are you okay? You can't knock on his door, he's got a big gate. Have you been to my house? No! It's very nice, you get a dozen things. You get the most unbelievable smoothie. It's a beautiful... Smoothie? Yeah, yeah. What, like upon arrival? You get a smoothie off Theresa. I didn't get a smoothie off Theresa. No, you don't have a smoothie. It's too late for a smoothie. It's tea and toast. Evening. It's just... Smoothies in the morning. Yeah. You have a smoothie in the morning. Did you stay over? Huh? Did you stay over? I didn't stay over. It was just like... Teddy, I'm... Come on. Me and Roscoe, behind his back, we were saying... You know what I mean? Because he wouldn't let us leave. No, because to be fair, we get his hotel bill in Manchester. It's a pretty expensive one as well. He won't stay at my hotel. You've got to put him locally, though. But you're staying at Stock Exchange? Just put him in there. Put him down here. Put me in the middle of the Stock Exchange. No, he's got high demands. Where do you like staying? I stay anywhere where they put me. I don't even know. It's a lie, that. They arse me. I don't... I don't know this place. This isn't my gaff, Manchester. You've got all the top-end hotels in Manchester, haven't you? What's the new one you've just bought? Yeah, what's the... Stock Exchange. I bet that's the cheapest. Probably, yeah. Yeah. No wonder you haven't got the Labour Conference. Right, let's move on to football. Arsenal and Manchester City. Mm. Where were you at with it? Does it change your mind, Roy, in terms of where you were at the start of the season around City? No. I still think it was probably the worst I've seen City play. They're definitely obviously having a difficult spell. Poor game. Listen, Arsenal just hung in there and maybe just about deserved it. Cagey game, yeah. I thought it was really poor quality, but it was edgy and... But I wouldn't be certainly writing Man City off. When you look at the two league games last year, obviously Man City were so far ahead, so yeah, definitely progress for Arsenal. But I wouldn't change my mind in terms of who I think will win the league. Yeah. I'd stick with City. Does it change your mind on Arsenal a little bit? A little bit, yeah. You've talked about getting over the line. Yeah, of course. They got over the line, didn't they? Well, you look at the last couple of times they've played, obviously, I haven't gone back to the community shield. Okay, that's the community shield. Classes are friendly, whatever. But they won that game, they've won this one, so that will only give Arsenal that bit of confidence and belief. And they won it without Saka. All along, we've seen Saka's a huge player for them. City are missing lots of players. City have been those... The one thing, I think we've done a few years ago, we've done City and United, Old Trafford and the Derby, and we kind of wrote City off. If you remember, we thought, have they lost the Eidetiger? You know, there was a couple of new players came in. And I'll never make that mistake again. You can't write off the fact that not beating them, like they've beaten us in 12 games. This is why even afterwards, like that little bust up and that, you can feel that. You want that. That's good. It's a good sign for Arsenal. You've got City who are not used to losing, and Arsenal who have beaten City. You know, so that bust up, and then you've got the fellow who used to be at City, he didn't want to shake hands the last couple of times, now he obviously wants to shake hands. But I like the fact that, like the changes what Mikel made at the end, because we have to beat them. If we're gonna win the league, as some said, you're gonna have to beat City. So I know that the game was cagey, he was talking about it, I didn't think it was great. I thought he was very defensive. I thought the midfield, you know, City's midfield without Rodri, obviously it's gonna be a massive miss for him. But like having Bernardo Silva, Rico Lewis, doing that kind of pivot role, and then Kovacic there. And you just think, well, why don't you play Calvin Phillips in this particular role? He's a specialist. He doesn't trust him, right? He doesn't trust him. It doesn't make sense. Has he had a chance? Has he had a couple of chances? He played a few weeks ago, and people are saying he's not getting any runners. How do you know he doesn't trust him? Because he didn't play him in a big game with all the injuries. I haven't even seen him playing games. He played at Newcastle two or three weeks ago, in the cup game. What did he do wrong? Well, he didn't do too much good. He didn't do enough, righty. You've got to win the manager's trust over. I'm not saying that- He's not playing often enough to try. But he watches him every day. There's a reason why he's not playing him. He doesn't trust him. Yeah, but you've got to watch him in games, in the situation so as he can get the trust. But he watched him against Newcastle a few weeks ago. He watched him against Newcastle two weeks ago, two weeks on a cup match. And he obviously went, I don't like what I see. So when he got to the Arsenal game, he said, I don't trust you. He doesn't believe he can do a job for him. I think for City, that Holden midfield role is the most important part of the game for them, obviously in terms of detail and everything else. And I think with Calvin Phillips, he needs games to get used to it. Like for City, if you get rid of that player, it's the most important role. Everything goes through them. Silva, then Foden start a drop. And then I think you lose there. But the few opportunities he's had, I don't think he's stuck. I've seen him come on a few games and he lacks a daisy. He doesn't like him, does he? He doesn't really. And that's fine. I think it's clearly the manager. At this moment in time, unless something drastically happens, it's a question mark. I think the thing that sort of stood out for me, I thought Arsenal would win the game going into it. But I didn't think they'd win it how they won it. Because I think the brilliant thing that Arsenal got going under Arteseda is there's an atmosphere in there, there's an energy to pace them. And I thought City are not at their best. I thought Arsenal would be sort of all guns firing. But they almost won it a different way. And it probably impressed me more. Because when you think of Arsenal, you think at the back, could they do something silly, give a goal away? It was that solidity that they had in the game. But what I'd also say to almost temper it is that I think if City would have won this game, we'd have probably all said, even at this stage, the league's done. Even if the points weren't massive, you just think. But now I just think it gives people belief, or certainly Arsenal belief, that you can beat in the race. You can challenge them. But the big difference with last season, City had to beat Arsenal in the two games that they played, because of where they came in the calendar. I think one was just after Christmas, maybe January, and then there was one later in the season. This felt different. I'm not saying it doesn't matter, but I just think- Well, you think it's played too early for it to make a- I think both teams were almost happy with the draw, and they weren't going for the win. No, James, I think that- No, what I'm saying is, I think if City really needed to like, like they did last season, there's another level for them. With that team, with that midfield, it didn't seem like it, that midfield- Oh, no, they're missing players, of course, but they will come back. But I just, I still think City had still a level. Haaland didn't have a shot on goal. I think it's the fewest shots that City had in a game for 13 years. And Jack Grealish still couldn't get off the bench. Why is Jack Grealish not being able to get off the bench? Because I said on Sunday after the game, Mahrez was a deliverer for Haaland. De Bruyne obviously is, but he's injured. And so Grealish is from the left-hand side. Why is he not getting- What's happened there? Does he not fancy him at the moment either, obviously? I don't think they feel like he's found his form this season, because he played against Newcastle, didn't he? And he didn't have a great game, but yeah, Haaland wasn't involved at all. And I think they're really missing De Bruyne, like missing him so bad. I think he's a massive void, and they've said, can Foden come in and fill that space? But I just think De Bruyne, he doesn't get the, obviously he's one of the best players of the Premier League, but I think when you take him out of that team, but yeah, Grealish just doesn't seem to be getting a look in. But Pep plays games, doesn't he? Pep does this once a year with certain players, he leaves them out, where we're all questioning. Remember, I think he left De Bruyne out last year at Spurs, and after the game, and he's done it with Kyle Walker, he's done it with Stones, but we're all going, why is he leaving him out, Mahrez? I think he plays these games with certain players, and Jax. Jax had a good summer. It's well documented. No, he is. So Pep will be looking at Haaland going, and he's picked up a little injury, and he's going, you just have to wait. Well, he seems to be playing a long game with Calvin Phillips. When we- You know what I mean? It's like- Well, that's a different animal. That's a different animal. Because Phillips is, Grealish and these other lads have done stuff for Pep. Phillips has really done nothing for Pep yet. Whether he's seen him in training, whether he doesn't like him or not, or whatever he's seen, I don't think he's had the games to really let, to play and impress himself upon him. It's just like, is he judging him purely on training, and a couple of games? I know, I'm a little bit nervous. I'm a little bit, Roy. And the reason to say that is that, I just think if I was in that position, and a manager wasn't picking me, I think I'd be treating training like a game, almost every day. Making it- He surely trains well, Calvin. I'm not saying he doesn't. What I'm saying is, we all give 100% in training, but we know there's times in our careers where you feel like, I've got something to show you, or maybe a new player's coming, and it's like, you're training, like it's a game. I was like that a lot. With Pep, I don't think it'll be a lack of understanding of the position, rather than a lack of effort. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But anything, whatever it is, he's got to make sure he's in the manager's face, and the manager almost feels like, I had situations at Liverpool where it felt like every season, I was getting replaced by a new player coming in, in my position, and I'd be like a lunatic every day, thinking I've got to be better than him in training. And I just think that, I'm not saying he's not, I don't know Calvin Phillips at all. I think he probably would be. The point is, make sure you're noticed every day, and say when it's your voice, your loud, you're leaving a tackling on someone, you're going to speak to the manager, okay, I don't understand the position, explain it to me. I always think you've got a training player, where the manager, you don't give the manager an option of leaving you. Exactly. The way Calvin Phillips plays, he's not one of those chasing around the place, ah, he's very, no, no, no, he's a calm, he breaks things up, raise it. What do you want him to do? Are we seriously saying here, that with City, obviously, Why did I buy him? I'd asked him to win the league at the start of the season, but most people go, he's sitting out, and would be surprised if it was City. But are we saying, if Roger is injured, for any amount of time, that City don't win the league? Is that what we're saying, that you can't do without him? Oh, he'd be an absolutely huge loss. Obviously, your mindset changes, if someone says, Roger's going to be up for a while, a bit like De Bruyne, but you say that about somebody else, and players, you can say that about lots of teams, but Rodri, you talk about Haal, and then De Bruyne, but looking at Rodri, you know, it's something that just confirms, when he's not available, you go, the most important player, you think? Yeah, I think so. In that system. Without the two best midfield players in the league, Rodri and De Bruyne, so imagine Arsenal without Teclan Rice and Odegaard, I mean, you know, so I think, you know, once they're back, I still think there's a leveled City, or that view, that seems. I think it's a good time for, it was a good time for City to lose, if they're going to lose. I do agree with Righty, though, I think that position, I think if Phillips had a run of five, six games in that position. Nice one, Jill. He'd learn so much, no, I do, I do. More toast for me, when you start. Have you got the same agent? No, but he's had, he's changed his game so much, from Leeds to City, the amount of technical detail. But that's what you do, when you change clubs. I remember Mourinho saying something, and we talk about young, it was about young players getting a chance. And I always say this about, especially in big clubs coming through, you can't expect a manager to give you five or six games. It's like, you might get one or two, you've got to show the manager, that he can trust you. And every day is a training session. I remember Mourinho saying about, he doesn't give young players a chance, will they get a chance in training? You've got to, and it might be being a little bit harsh on Calvin Phillips here. I've never moved club, I've never gone into a new dressing room, but, I just think you've just got to grab it by the scruff of the neck. And I think probably too often, when I've seen players come into Liverpool, maybe at your clubs as well, where you'd actually think they've got the talent, but they haven't actually got the personality to actually impose themselves. Because this dressing room is treble with us, there's great players, it's a bit like- Jamie, I left Forrest, I went to Man United, Man United just won the league. I'm going to a dressing room, Ince, Brian Robson, brilliant players, brilliant characters, the usual stuff. I can't go in there and just, do what I was doing at Forrest. I have to go and make an impression. From pre-season, to the Charter, the first few games, you go, I've got to put America down. But otherwise, I will be that, or you'll be the fringe player for 12 months. No, I don't want to be a fringe player. There's one thing about Arsenal, I've watched Arsenal in big games this season, against Tottenham, and against City. And look, they've both been difficult games. Tottenham are in good form, and obviously, City are City, and they don't give a lot away. Nketiah and Jesus, there's talk this morning of Tony being linked with Arsenal in January. Right, I'm going to come to you, because obviously, your position at Arsenal, how you played. There's no doubt Nketiah and Jesus, they worked their absolute socks off. But in quality terms, I just found in those two matches, is that going to be enough to win Arsenal the league? That's my only doubt, is actually a centre forward, because if they'd have the centre forward, like if they had Haaland, if they had Kane, I'd be saying, it's Arsenal, I think, if they can keep Saliba, and Gabriel, and Reisford. But honestly, I worry about Nketiah and Jesus. They're erratic. You know the thing with the way we're playing, obviously, we've spread the goals out last season, and yes, it took us to a certain place. I don't think the Tony links will go away, because it's blatantly obvious for everyone to see, that with that focal point, and that player that scores that, then that takes you somewhere else. You can't question the endeavour of both of these players. No, you can't. Eddie and Jesus. But in the moments, I think you look back at the Tottenham game, with the Jesus, that for a player of his level, his calibre, to get into that position, one nil up, against Tottenham Hotspur, you have to, those chances have to be buried. And I believe that Arsenal, in what we're trying to do now, you cannot afford, the margins are so small now, you cannot afford to be missing chances, and not winning those games. And what I'm seeing with Eddie, Eddie's working his socks off. No chances really made for him. He had one shot that went wide. But like, the work off the ball, fantastic. Same with Jesus. But yes, the Tony links don't go away, because you can see, that is probably the last bit, for me, in the jigsaw. And he's been clinical, hasn't he? Ruthless and clinical. Well the thing is, we're seeing, we're seeing that he's, it's blatantly obvious for everyone to see, that that would probably be the last piece. But, I think if it's gonna be done, he'll do it. If it can be done, he'll do it. I think what Arsenal had last season, we were fortunate, or you can say it's good, good from the medical staff. I think they had the, the team that played, their best team played more times, than probably anyone else's best team. You'd always think Saka, Martinelli, Jesus was obviously injured at times as well. They're probably not gonna have that this season. When you see that as the backup, I still think if they were going to win the league, they'd have to do something in January. I do, because that, that won't win you the league. I mean, the great lads, they make the socks off, especially Nketiah. Jesus, I do really like. But when I looked at that, to actually win with that front three against Man City, you probably couldn't win by playing your normal game, and having lots of chances, and scoring goals. It had to be about being solid, but. But Martinelli had to come on, didn't he? Yeah, he had to come on, and listen, it's a fortune. It doesn't matter how you win, you win the game. But, I do look at that, and you think of like, the Tony situation. I do think he's a quality centre forward. But then he's coming to your club in January, having not played for a number of months. Yeah. That's not ideal either. But when you say about work rate, and work ethic, ultimately, they have to score goals. You can say about Haaland's hold up play, and everything else. Why do we speak about him? Because of the goals he scored. They're not wired, are they, to score goals, naturally. Instinctively, they don't make the runs, that you see goal scorers make. They hold back. They're always looking for the pull back. They're never getting across players, and I just look at Jesus, he is quite erratic in front of goal. The work ethic of both of them is brilliant. I just question, at that level, can they win the league, without another striker? What you need is, when the game's a cagey, like that game was, you need somebody that, you know what, he hasn't had a touch or game, but we know that if he gets out, Harry Kane, if he gets out of the chance, he's gonna score, and then bam, you win the game 1-0, you say, we didn't play great, but that's what we've got, that striker. I was expecting Haaland to score the winner, to be honest with you. You know what I mean? Yeah, but this is the thing with Haaland. If you're not afraid of the fact, that at some stage, they're gonna click, something's gonna go right, and this is why I was very surprised, with City, that he didn't. I thought Saliba, and Gabriel Marguez, dealt with him very well, but he didn't have the kind of service, where he could cause them a problem. So when you're talking about, him running next to them, they had the physicality, they were able to see him off, he didn't have that much, like, for me, support in what he was doing, he didn't have to link up the play very well. I thought they'd done very well against him, but you're still, in the game, petrified, if he gets out of the chance. That's what we need up front. Can Arsenal win the league, and do they need to sign a striker? Can win the league, yeah. They would never need that striker, I think, and the players you're talking about coming in, they also give them that physicality. I think Arsenal, I think it's great, when you're watching a team who can play, and are good in possession, but also are physically strong. We see City over the last few years, they've got bigger, obviously set pieces are huge, and I think if we're talking about Arsenal getting certain players in, we're seeing lads coming off the bench for Arsenal, they're big, strong, physical players, which can get you over the line, in these tight games. I don't think Arsenal come in the league with the squad that they've got right now, I think they need some lads for in January. Striker? Yeah. City for the league, for me. I think they always gain momentum as the season goes on, so. I'm still sticking with City, yeah, I'm not budging at City. We've got two new goalkeepers, Arsenal and Manchester United. What's your, what have you made? I mean, Roy, you were very vocal, as many of us were, around David De Gea, his time being up at Manchester. No, I would have kept him, they should have kept him. Huge mistake letting him go. You're knocking him back? He's on a freeze. No, he had to go, yeah. Yeah, but then. Yeah, when you say he had to go, what do you mean, he had to go? Because when you look at what's happening now. He's making too many mistakes. No, he was, I mean, we've gone over that. I mean, look, it's early days, eight games in, what do you make of Inanna? Oh, not great. Listen, obviously, really poor start. We talk about positions at any big club. I think you've mentioned a number of times, Gary, goalkeeper at Man United is a huge, for that personality, dealing with mistakes, but he's already made, six, seven, eight big mistakes, that have led to goals. It's not been a great start. It's a long way back. We've seen other keepers come to United, where they've had a tricky start, and we've walked with them, and we thought they're really good goalkeepers, but there seemed to be no way back from. I think looking at it now, he's made mistakes. Goalkeepers make mistakes. Is he making mistakes, or is he a bad keeper? I think you'd sort of, I think we'd probably be working that out, in probably the next sort of four to six weeks, in how actually people see him. Is he just having a really bad run? Is he playing in front of a, you know, a really poor back four, and his confidence has gone? And he is a good keeper. He has played in the Champions League final. But, I can't get out of my head what that, what he did to Maguire, in pre-season. And, I thought it was awful. I can't get it out of my head. And I almost think, now he's going through a really bad time. Now, psychology must be really affecting him. He's had a new club. Probably never had this attention before. And I think, how would he feel if someone was running at him, throwing his arms about like a lunatic? Like, bagging him out? Yeah, I mean, it's a pre-season game. Don't need to go mad. It was only his second game for Man United. He's come running out the goal, with his arms flipped. It wasn't, he didn't concede a goal. Maguire made a mistake on the halfway, and he's having a really bad time. Everyone's on his back. It was a bit like, you've only been here two minutes. I think sometimes a player comes to a club, and he's probably putting a marker down, and listen, I'm sure if he thought he was going to make those mistakes, he wouldn't have been giving out instructions, or having a goal player. What would you have done if you were Maguire? Oh, probably taught him where to go. Yeah. And everyone's defending Harry, but Harry's a big boy. Harry could, after the game, go, hey, you're allowed to stop. Peter would do that. Peter would do that, but Peter then obviously would back it up. I think if the keeper knew, these mistakes coming, he might have, I better go easy before I start. You always say that, before you start ratting and raving at people, make sure you're on game. He's one of those lads that you look at him, he still looks full of life, full of confidence. Do you think that is, at the moment, a facade, and a mask, and what's going on behind will be a lot more? I think when you look at the mistakes, hopefully he's got the mentality to get himself through it, because it can't be anything but for me a facade at the minute, because if, I'm not even a Man United fan, he frightens me, simply because, you know, I just feel that he's making so many mistakes, that he worries me in respect of, if they score two, you feel that, you're gonna still concede three. You know what I mean? It would scare me playing with him, at the moment, and you know, I'm not seeing too much in the way that he plays, obviously on the floor, he's very good with his passing, but I'm not seeing too much in the way he plays, that makes me say, oh I can see he's getting through that. I don't know if he's doing that in training. You can justify a little bit. yes, I'm not seeing it. How long would you give it? I mean, you used to play with a manager who, obviously it's famous, what happened with Jim Leighton, in terms of, you know, changing him for the cup final to Les Seeley, I think, Tayibi came in, he was gone really quickly. Do you think if this continued, Man United would be saying, we need to sign a goalkeeper. Well we've lived, They've got Beyondair, they've got Beyondair. We've lived through this period where, post-Peter, before Bedouin Van der Sar, we had obviously, Mark Bosnitz, then Fabian Barthez, then we had Roy Carroll and Tim Howard, we had Ricardo, we had Massimo Tayibi. I think that's six, that I can think of that, in a very short period of time, it felt like four or five years, and it was really unsettling for them. You know, they're good lads, them lads that I've just talked about, really good lads, so you're not, Everyone's a great lad, isn't he? They weren't all great lads. But they're good lads, but you could feel that tension, and that unsettled feeling, you didn't know who was playing next week, sometimes it was a bit of a flip-flopping, and then obviously sort of, you just knew it wasn't Peter, you knew you didn't have that presence behind you, and that personality, and then Edwin came, and it became quite calm again, because he had that experience, he had that stature. I think it's really difficult, once you start, I mean, David Heyer had a bad start, didn't he? Yeah. And then he came out of it, and to be fair, that's I think something that Anand is going to have to look at. I remember speaking to goalkeeper coaches, different ones at United, and they always say, keepers make mistakes at clubs, but it's how you deal with it at Man United, it's how you deal with the mistake. Peter Schmeichel made loads of mistakes at Man United, but what he'd done was, he recovered very, very quickly. That's the problem with goalkeepers, but what we're finding out, when it's mistakes, four, five, six, seven, in a run of games, that's where you start to worry. Do you think it goes back to philosophy of teams, you know, like if they are making mistakes, do you think this should take it back to basics, and obviously just think about stopping the goals, and playing out, or do you think, keep trying to play short, because we have this fascination in the minutes, of everyone playing short, and like. He's making all sorts of mistakes, isn't he? Usually he's cut out, trying to be clever then. What I worry about, what I worry about at United, is to be honest with you, I went to the game against Brighton a few weeks ago, and Matt Tomlin had a fantastic weekend, where he comes on and scores two, but he looked like he couldn't move in that game, Matt Tomlin against Brighton a few weeks ago, and there were clips circulating on social media, of a look at him not trying. That's your mind playing trick, Scott Matt Tomlin, I think would die out on that pitch for Manchester United, that's the world on his shoulders, that's, do you know how many heavy legs I talk about, in a young player, when the pressure in the dressing room isn't there, the support isn't there. My worry is, who's getting an honour through it at the moment, in that dressing room, because they're all struggling a little bit, and they're all got heavy legs, they're all a bit overweighed, by the pressure that's happening, and that does concern me, how is he going to come out of it? His teammates aren't helping him, obviously because they're losing games, he made a mistake the other day, but he ended up winning 2-1, you see him at the end of goalkeeper, he's on top of everything, he's thinking, you've got me out of jail, and Dave not getting him out of some of the other mistakes, at least when we were playing, when Peter made mistakes with goalkeepers, we'd still win the game, you go, it's kind of, you're getting away with it a little bit, but he's getting really highlighted, because they're losing week in week out, but you're saying about McTowney, about dealing with the demands, and these people are critical, when you're a young lad, who's been at the club though, for a long time, you carry the weight of the club, Yeah, you do. He's been there since he was five. I know, but he's one of those players, he's been there since he was five. Every club has a player, who thinks there's a young player, and he's like 28. Well Gary said he's been there since he was 26. Gary says he's been there since he was five, yeah, he's not had the pressure since he was five. No, but he's been there a long time, you know what I mean? I know, but five, he's been there since he was five, six. I know that, yeah, but he wasn't, he wasn't carrying the weight of the world on his shoulders, when he was five, he was a Man United guy, this is great. When you're a fan, you do, it hits you. But the longer you're at the club, when you're at a club a long time, you do get extra pressure, new players, you give them a year or two, like Phillips, they're going, listen, you can find your feet here. You don't know any other pressure, if you're the same. Yeah, sort of pressure, but that's part of being a Man United player. Were you worried about Raya on Sunday? Were you worried about Raya? You know what, I thought like, when I watched it back, I heard you was going on about my keeper. To be honest, what he's doing. Is that too harsh? I thought, I think for what, for what Mikel wants, I expect you to say what you said, because it did look nervy, it did look, yeah, but the fact is. Do you think he looked nervy? I mean, I was watching, I was listening to your commentary, I thought it was almost the opposite. Arrogance. Almost like, he was almost too cool, he was sitting too long on the ball. This is what Mikel wants, Dolce. That's the old, that's the old nervy one, when you start to look cool. No, but he was, he was almost. I tried that one. He was taking, almost, there's no doubt, when you could watch him at the ball. At times, when he had time on it, he was, the old, a lot of teams are doing this now, with, I think Brighton almost started, but they're trying to entice teams. Atta said it, provoke, he said. So, I don't think he was nervous, I think he was almost waiting, come on, he was inviting the pressure, and then sometimes, just waiting too long. The fans, the fans, what happened was, is that, you could see the fans, especially where I was sitting, they were saying, come on, because you could see, Zinchenko's in there, you know, if he could pop it in, like you see Edison, just clipping little one, into the midfield. They wanted him to do stuff like that, but, you could see Mikel, was on the, he's saying, just stay calm, and you've seen Mikel, I've seen Dzerbi, as well, with their goalkeepers, when they just go long, because, and then they give up possession, they absolutely lose it. I thought that he was, very, very cool, in the first half, and yes, it was nervy, but he done what the manager wanted, because the second half, second half, some of his distribution, was unbelievable, especially the last, 10 minutes of that game, the catching, and the distribution, was fantastic. We, as Arsenal fans, have to get used to the fact, that he will, will take his time. You see Aaron, you know, people say, Aaron would have got that out there, yeah, but maybe, that's why Aaron, unfortunately, he's on the bench, and he's there, because he calmed it. One of them, should have been a goal, though, shouldn't there? One of them, in the first half, that should have been a goal, when he got closed down. Was that with Aki? Yeah, and then suddenly, the game's 1-1. Was it Alvarez? It would be interesting. It would be interesting, I think, if one of those had gone in. Do you think, we're talking about him, always on the ball, and being cool, do you actually think, I mean, I don't really know yet, do you think he's actually, a good enough goalkeeper, to win the league, in terms of actually, what he keeps out the net? Have you seen enough evidence, of that yet? I think, I've seen some saves, where you, where you think, yeah, he's gonna probably save us, a few times. Especially, one of the things, that he does more than anything, that makes me feel very, very calm, is the way he comes, and takes everything. And just, kind of like, calms everybody. You can see that, there's a calmness, in our defence, when that ball's coming in, but he comes, and gets it, and he just, stays calm. A calmness, that wasn't there before? Well, I wouldn't say, it weren't there before, but the fact is, unfortunately for Aaron, he's not in there, and this guy is. We have to discuss VAR. Roy, I've not heard you, obviously, the Spurs-Liverpool game, was a big crisis. What did you make of it? Oh, it was crazy, wasn't it? Yeah, It's not crazy, it's incompetence, Barry. Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah. I hate VAR. I think we speak more, about refereeing decisions, now, whereas in the past, yeah, you wouldn't get one, one week, then you'd get one the next, like, it annoys me. In 2019, we played with it, in the World Cup, and I remember, you'd score, and you'd like, stop, and it would ruin, the whole moment, and then they'd come to you, three minutes later, and go, yeah, it's a goal, best moment of your life, scoring the World Cup, and then you're like, yeah, I hate it, I hate it. See what VAR, and we're talking about VAR, we're talking about the people, that use VAR, VAR works, it's the people, that are using VAR, are not good enough, in what they're doing. But, this idea that we put, ex-footballs in there, is a nonsense for me, by the way, seriously, we don't even know the rules. Yeah, but yeah, are you tired of talking about it? It's tiring, isn't it? It is tiring talking about it, but at the same time, the people who are in there, who do know the rules, cannot make mistakes, like that, man. They're taking, they're taking away the joy, the essence of the game. That was a bad one, that one. The celebration, the joy, is what we go for. You know, the punters in the ground, don't even know, what's going on. It's, at the moment. Just replay the game, that'd be easy. You know something, we've taken so many, on the replaying the game, you know what, it shouldn't have got to that, because what should have happened, was they should have, hang on a sec, you've got that wrong. They've taken so many, so much time, sometimes, to look at something, that we can see that's right. If you're going to take, another 30, 45 seconds, to get that decision right, for Liverpool, then do it, and then we've got, There's common sense, isn't it? There's no common sense. You know, you're looking at someone like, Mike, what's the fellow with Merce, the other day? Mike Dean. Mike Dean, saying about, yeah, you don't, they don't even know, the laws of the games. Laws of the game. They know the laws of the game, and they're still getting it wrong. I saw, did you see, what happened with Alex Green? Yeah, it was ridiculous. It was actually, she went a little long, on a free kick, and then, the player didn't run, so she went back, and got a second, yellow card. That's not the VAR, is it? Yeah, but this is what I'm saying, the VAR's there, and we know it's not going, anywhere. It's the people, that are using it. At the same time, we have to be careful about, the progression of referees, that's coming as well. Because that's something, that we need to be, sorting out. Because we're talking about, the elite ones here, who are getting it wrong, on an unbelievable scale. So what, so, where's the conveyor belt, of referees that's coming? I just think, in terms, I said this on it, on Monday Night Football, there was a lot of criticism, around the officials, on that game, because they made a mistake, about them going, abroad. But, we have got, I think we'd all agree, probably, the best league, most exciting league, we've got the best players, from all around the world, the best managers, coaches, training ground, stadium, we've got the best of everything, here. If the officials, aren't up to standard, why can't we go, and get the best? And listen, I'm not, I don't want to just sort of, ruin this sort of, road that you're talking about, young referees, getting to the top, in the Premier League, but, we've got the best, of everything, and if the officials, aren't up to standard, we should be able, to bring the best, then we just have to. You can't accept, some of the decisions, that we've seen this season. I was doing the game, on Sunday, I thought the Kovacic one, I mean Michael, I was a fantastic referee, I thought it was, I thought it was incredible, that one. Yeah, but this is what I'm saying, with Mike Dean, talking about rules, and rules. He's talking about rules, and rules, if the rules, are the rules, then Kovacic, has to get sent off. What, for the second one? Well, he's got two yellows, he's got the first one, and then the second one. The second one, is a foul, but, I'm not sure, that was a yellow. Bibi said, well it was very close, to the other one. Yeah, it was close to it, but, I don't think the second one. Could have easily, been a yellow. It could have easily, been a yellow, but I don't think it's just, everyone's saying, well he just got another, he had a yellow, just before that, and he probably, could have been a red, but that doesn't mean, that's a separate incident. Yeah, but, he's made a mistake, for a player, that's on a yellow, he's going into a second one. I get it, but I don't jump on it, and go on, it's definitely a red. I'm a bit red, Roy, and the reason I say this, is because, I think the one, the week before, with Curtis Jones, is that, I think a referee, and I sort of admire, Michael Oliver, for doing this at the weekend, I'm not saying, you don't apply the rules, but, I'd love referees, to do as much, as they possibly can, to try, and keep 11. If there's any, sort of, great, can I keep him on the pitch? Keep him on the pitch, and the coverage, each one, for me, I always think, if you get someone on the ankle, you probably, no matter how bad, you're probably gonna get away, but as soon as it goes, above the ankle, it looks like, oh, that's a leg break. I think he was lucky that, if that was sort of, six inches high, he's off the pitch, no doubt. When they slow it down, though, it looks so much worse. Oh, yeah. They give yellow cards out, for anything, you wouldn't have stayed, on the pitch for one game. That's what it is. Whoa, whoa, whoa! I mean, they do just give yellow cards off, for nothing. Imagine they gave red cards, a foul on abusive language. I don't know, I mean. Exactly, you wouldn't be on there, for nothing. See, slowed down, it looked worse. There's always a point, another tackle happens so quickly, people go, he's only just had a, yeah, but it doesn't matter if that was, two minutes ago, or 20 minutes ago, I think the referee done quite well, and we have everyone, on the sideline, and players, they're all, starting to do that again now. Yeah, but we're playing in a time, where everything's, every foul, is a yellow card, so you'd expect, Let's wrap it up, anti-clock wise, keep VAR, or no VAR. I'm keeping VAR, but what I am doing, is opening up the mics, to the stadium, and the ref, and the actual, theatre of the replays, to the stadium, so everyone can see it. So, is that on the table? So, can we say we're keeping, for those things on the table? but bring that in. Can I make a one point, about the VR, when they showed the recording, of the look, how casual the people, I think that was a bit, that surprised me. Yeah, all right Jim, yeah, I'll have a look, all right, what is? Oh Dave, yeah. No, sorry Dave, sorry. All right, Trigg. It's true. Yeah, it's very casual, wasn't it? That's a bit, what worries me. You're watching the golf. It's true. I like golf. You know something, go on, keep it, keep it. I'm with you, I'm with you. It's all, it's easy to say, get rid of it, it's not, as Wrighty said, it's not going anywhere, we've got to try and make it, as good as we can. Get rid of it. Jill. Yeah, get rid of it, and get rid of Jill. No. No, I don't think get rid of it, we can't get rid of it. What about Jill? Yeah. I'd love Jill. Eat Jill, and get rid of you. Eat Jill, and get rid of you. We're talking about, Birmingham City, and they just sacked, John Eustace, yesterday, and Wayne Rooney, some, someone, or linked with Wayne Rooney, it looks like they're, you know, appointing, what, what do we make of that, in terms of, so we've got, enter the sort of, discussion around, modern managers, players that we played with, the difficulty, and challenges, that managers, that we've played with, have had, and, is it a smart move, by Birmingham, to bring Wayne Rooney back? Well, he's a student of the game, isn't he Roy? Yeah, apparently so, yeah, watch his games, coaching badges, like Phil, like Sir Ralph. But I mean, the thing, I saw it, Wayne is, he's 37, he's already in his, what would it be now, would this be his third job? And the thing, I would say, and one of the reasons, why, not the exact reason, I probably never went into, but when I think of, players we played with, in the England squad, Wayne, Frank, Stevie, where they've, actually, had to go, to sort of, stay in Manchester, Stevie, Stevie's in Saudi now, moved up to, Scotland. What I'm saying is, moving away from the family, Wayne's just gone to the MLS, now he's back to, Birmingham. Frank's been, obviously, normally, you know, been in London most of his life, then moving around, and that sort of thing, of being, away from the family. So, I actually admire them, really, because they've had to, probably do things, in their, managerial career, that, they probably didn't do, in the playing career, and I don't think, I'd be prepared to do that. I mean, you did it in terms of, going to Valencia, I remember, speaking to you, you talked about moving, the whole family, down to Ipswich. I think, that's a big part of managing, because it's not like playing, where you're confident, and you think, I'm gonna stay out this, four year deal, or I can stay at United, or Arsenal, or Liverpool, for a long time. You know, you're only gonna be in a job, for two years, probably, max. Is that a big problem, for you, in terms of, Yeah, of course it is, but it depends, what club you're going to, when I moved to Sunderland, I was gonna move the family up, didn't quite walk out, regarding the family, coming up with schools, I ended up, like commuting, but that, that actually suited me, at the time, and maybe we got some, decent results, so your mindset is, well, this is working, this suits us. Ipswich is slightly different, again, you move the family, I think, I signed a two year deal, when I was down there, you bring all the family down, you buy a house down there, and I was gone, probably after, what, 13 months, so, yeah, but that's, that's the pitfalls, pitfalls of management, yeah, it can be, obviously draining, Would you, would you like to go back, into management, Roy? I'd like to go back in, yeah, but, I'd love to see you, back in management. No, listen, I'd like another crack of it, you sign a two year deal, we stick to football, so. You can still come in here, on a Wednesday afternoon, can't he? There's a few clauses, guys, as you well know, like my clauses, yeah. Roy, what is it, what is it about management, because it fascinates me, because when I speak to, you, or other people, who've been in management, I was with Frank Lampard, on Sky, the other day, and, they tell you little things, listen, you wouldn't put out there, in the public domain, things that go on, behind the scenes, and a lot of them, are horror stories, but when you ask someone, do they want to go back in, everyone says, yeah. What, what is the drug, what is the drive, to go back in, when there's so many problems, around the job? Well, from my own personal experience, is that, especially the last one, where, when I was a manager, I think, it's just a challenge, getting back in. I've been out of management, for a number of years now, but still, on a Saturday, I'm still agitated, every Saturday, about not having a team, and I've not managed, for nine, 10, 11 years, so it never goes away, but it's, what opportunity, are you going to get? what about Wayne, and these lads, having the Sunderland, certainly wasn't easy, which was a tough challenge, Wayne now, is coming back, to Birmingham, I know there's new owners, there, I think it depends, on the club, the timing, listen to contract, so sometimes, you think, I like a challenge, you speak to a club, but, it's like anything else, you've got to look at the contract, you've got to have a bit, of self work, do you think you want to go in, and face them challenges, like Wayne, I guarantee, if Wayne takes the Birmingham job, the contract would be, listen, he won't have lost his spend, I don't think he'd bring in, 10 staff, I think the wages, mightn't be great, but that's up to the person then, do they see that challenge, in front of him, but contracts, obviously, come into it. What makes you like, want to be a manager, or a coach, because I look at managing, I'd love to go in, There's a difference, obviously, some people, have been on the grass, love coaching, I probably wasn't one of them, I like making the bigger decisions, but other lads, then we work with lads, who just want to be a coach, and are not interested, in picking the team, or, going to board meetings, or dealing with the media, yeah, you do have to make your mind up, I know clubs have changed, recently, with people like Pep, obviously, and Klopp, they're very hands on, and also on the coaching, but other managers, I bet you, like Wenger, the managers we played under, Ferguson, Brian Clough, the managers I played under, were very much, no, let other people coach, and I'll just step back, obviously, make the big decisions. Did you want to go into managing? I did, as a player, I always thought I would, I was thinking, I'd done my coaching badges early, I think, if you'd asked people, in our dressing room, whether me or Stevie, would have been a manager, I think most people would have said, I would have. Yeah. But the, Roy's talking about, having the experience, as your own managers, the two managers I had, were Gerard Houlier, for six years, and Benitez, for six years, biggest influences on my career, so impressed with them, but the last, sort of, couple of years of it, you just saw what the job, it was just almost, like, this man who'd come in, and you had so much respect for, you sort of, in awe of, in some ways, you saw them on the way out, and you were like, oh my God, that's what the job's done to them, and they were successful. Yeah. You know, it wasn't a disaster, it was like, they both did really well, and then, I owe, what I asked Roy before, I'd never moved, and that thing of like, thinking, I'll be in a job here for 18 months, then move there for two years, and I got a good gig, with him, on Monday Night Football, didn't I? So, I looked at it, and thought, I'd probably have to go in, as a manager, probably, bottom championship, maybe top of league one, a level I don't know. Yeah. I don't know that level, and I'm getting a job, where I think, you know, one of the best shows, Poundry Two Hours, and I'm thinking, well, I'm going into, probably the top of that. Yes, right in there. Yeah. Top end. Or I'd go, sort of, to the bottom of football, at a level I don't really know. Does that give you the football fix, though? Like, it's great talking about football, but the prospect of being, like, back on the grass, and, does it give you? That thing, when people say, back on the grass, I couldn't think of anything worse. Aw. Doing a warm up. You've made a good point, sorry. You've made a good point. The other side, you've got Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney, you're on about, these are lucky lads, and I was lucky to get to Sunday, your first gig, when you've had a half decent career. But the problem is that, when you've been in, you've had a decent career. As soon as you go through, a difficult spell, people throw it at you, straight away, going, like, Wayne's stats at the moment, are not great. He's had tough jobs, no doubt. And the first thing is, people say, well, just because you were really top player, doesn't mean you're going to be top manager. But, and like me, and Gerrard, we're still, we're still managers learning our trade. Yeah. But when you've had a decent career, people throw it at you, straight away, oh, just because you were a good player, doesn't mean, yeah, but we're learning like everybody else. I went to Sunday, and I remember Niall, Niall was the chairman, Niall was saying, Roy's going to be box office, and he was, he was meaning well, he wasn't coming from a bad place, but I remember going, I'm just a young manager, learning like everybody else. And as soon as you have a difficult spell, people go, oh, you can't handle it because, what you've done as a player, and people can't do what you've done, and you're like, no, I'm just having a difficult spell, like everybody else. Yeah. You don't, sometimes get the benefit, you get lucky to get into a job, I get it, and you look at, listen, Gerrard, and Lampard, they've got great opportunities as well. But as soon as you have a difficult spell, people throw that at them, oh, you're a good player, but you'll never make as many. I think, have you ever think about it, righty? Yeah, there was, because I'd done that, I'd done that year at MK Dons, wanted to see, because I wanted to see, if I, if I had that, like you say, boots on the grass, and the fit, I didn't have it. I'd done it for, I'd done it for a year, remember I was telling you about the, like, watching the guys train, and then watching them on a Saturday, play totally different to what, they were told to do, on a Wednesday. Right, and then I'm watching them. I remember Carl Robinson, one time he said, he said to me, just, just go, just go and say something, and then, didn't know what to say, I said, I can't believe I'm watching, the same players, play at the levels, that they were playing there, and then, now you're, you're here, we're playing against this, and you can't even string, three, three passes together. That's pundish, you're not a coach. Yeah, which is why, but not in that moment, I said, and in that moment, he realized, this is not the place for him, right? Because I remember, I had to do some stuff, Deli Alli was there at the time, he was a young guy, they were there, and I remember doing it, and I was saying, I'm not enjoying doing this, I haven't got the, I haven't got the mentality, to be able to deal with, not only, the press, and the pressures, that come with the manager, but emotionally, I'll be all over the place. I think, I think another thing, as well, I think there's people, who probably haven't had, our careers, who know, they know the game, and they've got a drive, in terms of coaching, and management, that I just think, it might be tough, alls to match. I'm not saying that, we wouldn't work hard, but it's just like, it's a way out for them, financially, as well, so that even the families, are saying, go and take that job, because that's going to, change our lives, because probably, our wives, are probably at the end, of our careers, saying, this is our time now, aren't we supposed to be, going on holiday at Christmas, or doing this, or doing that, whereas people, who haven't actually played, have got that thing of like, they've still got the family, really pushing them out there, because the money managers, are here now, I mean it is, it's life changing, and a lot of the top managers, certainly, when you talk about me, not doing it, Wenger, not a great career, Benitez, didn't really play, Ferguson, didn't have a great career, Marino, he didn't play, they were the four, like managers at the time, I was thinking, you know, they've just got something, that like, maybe an extra drive, that maybe players, who've played at the highest level, probably haven't got. I think all of them, all of them you mentioned, have a certain obsession, and a direct, like vibe about what they're doing, it's obsessive, Arsene Wenger was obsessive, about football, I think you look at, Pepe's the same, Mikel's the same, you look at Klopp, and the way they see, there's a different energy, to the way the managers are now, in their obsession, to get their team, get it right, and what they wanna do, which I would, I'm nowhere near, that place, in respect, nowhere near that place, and I could see, you watch them, I would not be able to deal with this. When those managers are out of a job, they're not going to Ibiza or Dubai, they're not are, they're on holiday, they go to someone else's, training sessions, aren't they? You know what I mean? Breaking news here. What we got? Salford got a new manager. Eden Hazard, has just announced his retirement. Wow. What do we make of his career? Has he achieved everything, that we thought he would? I'll start with you, Roy. No, listen, brilliant player at Chelsea, but when he turned up, when he turned up, with the condition he turned up, at Real Madrid, not a good, he's had injuries. Talented boy, but I just, the fact when you talk about Real Madrid, I just, again, I find it hard to. 32 years of age. Is that all he is? That's it. That's all he is now. This is sad to see, because he's a talented player, but it goes to show that, your talent isn't enough. He just didn't look like he had the full package, in terms of his mindset, when he went to Real Madrid. You can't turn up over waste, your first pre-season at the club. I just think it's. Didn't Hazard openly say though, that he knew that he had the talent, and reached them heights, but wasn't willing to, have that dedication. To eat. No, but that dedication, and whatever else, he knew what he wanted to do, he was very comfortable with that. I think he was one of the best players I've ever seen, in the Premier League. Yeah. Yes, James. He was one of the best players in a World Cup, when I think Belgium finished third. I think he even played the year a couple of times. But, I do think there's something about Barcelona and Real Madrid, for me, I think they are, the two biggest clubs in the world. The best players in the world, always, always play for those teams, really. And, he just hasn't done that last bit, that Roy's talking about, where you think of like, you know, what Ronaldinho did when he went to Barcelona, what Ronaldo did when he went to Real Madrid, what Bellingham looks like he's doing, when he's going to Real Madrid. I think you elevate yourself to another level, if you produce the goods, at those two clubs. And he just hasn't got there. And I think a lot of that is what Roy said, is you know, how can you go to Real Madrid, like that? I just, I can't understand that. But in terms of the Premier League, I think he'd be very close, to probably an all time Premier League 11. I think he'd definitely be in the discussion. I think he was brilliant for Chelsea. That is a shame, because like, when it was all happening, we saw it was happening for a few years, before he went to Real Madrid, he's going to leave, and that, but like, he was scintillating. Yeah. He was, you know what, that could, the same kind of, How many seasons though? Was he that brilliant for that many seasons? I think for three or four seasons, he was probably the best player in the league. he was the one. How many seasons? I think for probably three or four seasons, I think he was probably the best player, in the Premier League. I think so. I don't know. Chelsea won the league twice, I think, in that time. You can see where, again, where Real Madrid would want a player like him. He was scintillating, and that's why they come and get someone like that, when they see, what he can do. I'm very surprised, that, you know, when you saw the pictures, when he came back to training, you think, wow, what's happening there? Because, if you're going, that is the final destination, isn't it? For that elite level of players. So, for him to turn up like that, it was like, wow. You know what I mean? I don't know what's happening. But I tell you about that, that he didn't have that extra. Because, again, you'd be, imagine your first pre-season, at your new club, they've spent 40, you turn up. Was it, did he say, like a stone, or? Was it? I always think, I can't believe a player, that's so fit, that's so, motivated, that's had a massive move. I always think, there's something else wrong, because he's turned up all the way. I just think, that can't just happen, in a month. He's not just gone on the pace, he's not just gone, and got bladdered for a month, and ate pizza. He can't have done that. So, I always think, what's happened? What's happened, in that summer? I do always think, that you mentioned, about Real Madrid, it's an unforgiving club. I think, United can be. I think, you look at United, over the last seven, or eight years, it has become a graveyard, for players, who are top players. And, I think Real Madrid, can become that place. There was a, accusation level, that that Belgium team, wasn't there, about the mentality, the hunger, those talented group, that golden generation. And, I think he, sort of, I think is the epitome, of that now, in terms of his, unbelievable ability. When you look at Ronaldo, you remember Ronaldo, at United, and you think of, sort of, Messi, and what, Pex was talking about, last week. They were relentless, every single day, was like a mission, to become the best, in the world. I don't think, Hazard, thought about football, that way, in the way in which. That's not Madrid's fault, does it? But they signed him, but yeah. It can be difficult, to go to any big club, but you turn up, in good shape, to give yourself, the best chance. He didn't give himself, a chance, even if the club was maybe, you're going to a club, at a bad time, but you can still turn up, when you look at a player, who's that good. Some of the players, who are that good, yes, they've got the work ethic. They'll do it, but like, sometimes, when you're that good, you just feel like, yeah, I'll be fine. I get the impression, that he is. Complacency. I think so. I think so, because he was that good, and when you see him, and it's even, sometimes, he's vibing, he's swaggering, you can see that he's somebody, that yeah, I'll be fine, don't worry. I get that impression, of him. The players you've mentioned, there, and the brilliant players, in the Premier League, Shearer, Henry, Oli, I still wouldn't be putting him, in that bracket. Well. Maybe because of that, little bit of DNA. Has I? Not in that bracket. Yeah, I put him in, yeah, I put him in the, like James, I'll go with James, with that one. Well you see, I still think, it was less than three or four years. I just look, if you look back, I'm gonna say, and I still think, that's not long enough, when you start talking about, these other amazing players. You've done it for me, eight, nine, 10, 11, 12 years. For two or three years, for me, it's still not enough. These are listeners questions now. So, which celebrity show, would you do? Righty, you've done, the Jungle, Jill, Queen of the Jungle. Was you, the Righty, we see here, or the one we've seen in the Jungle, which is the real one? This one, when he's fed, when he's fed. He's angry, You were a little bit gropey, you were gropey. Yeah, but that's the way, they edited it. You should have seen, everyone says that. Everyone says that, yeah. No, what's it called? That was, that's a, it's a difficult show though. It is so, honestly. It's difficult. Being that hungry, for that long, and that tired, and then they're doing certain things to you, you didn't, you don't know what's happening. I swear to you, I don't know how I didn't, I didn't, Hazard should have went in the Jungle. Honestly, you lose about, you lose about two seats. Oh my God. Honestly. That was, that was tough. Roy, would you go in the Jungle? There was a price on it, put on the World Cup, I think, if I remember rightly. Was there? Go on Gary, what? I think he said for a million quid, you'd go in. Was it a million? Did I say that, or did somebody else say it? No, I don't think I said that. I think you said it'd be a million. I never. No. Would you go in for that? I would have kept my options up, and go in. I wouldn't put a price out there. No, I don't see myself in these programmes. You're a bit funny though. I think we'd like to see you though. Yeah, I don't know, I just. Going for charity. Yeah, look at him. You're like, not for yourself, Roy, do it for someone else. yeah, right. No, I don't see it. No? No. How are you off of Strickland, yeah? Dancing on ice. Please, James, no way dancing on ice. You'd be brilliant on that. No. I think the only one I'd do, is probably The Jungle, but is it, it's a brilliant TV show to watch. Is it completely, completely different isn't it? It's hard, cause you're like, literally sat like this, for like 16 hours. if you don't go out for a trial. It's a bit like what we're doing here. Imagine being sat here for 16 hours. It depends on the company, but the food is bad as well. Like the food, you don't get a lot of food, but you make good friends out of it. No, but I mean, it looks a brilliant show to watch. It's funny, but what I'm saying, is it boring being in there? It's very boring. Is it? And then the hunger. But like, there's a nice comradery that you build, when you're, like for instance, you go and do the trial. You know what I mean? Like if Roy's in, like what happened with me, they just kept voting for me to do him. In the end. Isn't that a good thing? You know what it is? You know what it does? It kind of gets you to a place, where you know, you've got to do this to feed people. So whatever they're going to do to me, to be honest, I never wanted to be buried, buried in anything. That was one of my, I couldn't sleep at night thinking, they're going to bury me tomorrow. But like, when you go in to do the trial, I was just thinking about, people are starving. People are starving. And so it kind of gets you through it. You kind of go into that place where, yes, you can do it. But like after that, it's. When people say they want to be friends, you know, you said you made great friends. Yeah. Who? No, no, I'm saying, I mean, because when you're in there, people go, we'll all be friends after this. You go, no, we won't. We're just friends because we're here. I don't want to see you ever again. Like who? When was the last time you met him? Did you meet him for a cup of tea recently? Yeah, no, we do meet for a coffee. Me and Owen go to the Man City games. Yeah. Okay. I have made good friends. Cause I feel like, you never, you don't have your mobile phone, which is a big one. So you actually talk to each other and yeah, it is good for that. You've got to go and make some friends. Did you find out Emery had been sacked when you were in there or something? No. But what happened? Any information? No, no, no. Something happened with Arsenal that told you when you came out. They told me when I came out, but like, I remember. What, that Emery had been sacked? Something, no, I can't remember what it was with Arsenal, but I think, I can't remember. Was it an England game? What was it? Was it? I was right. How did you find out? It was about your time in there. You knew Emery was sacked. You were celebrating. Yeah. No, I wasn't. And look at him now. How did you find that out? Cause I asked for the World Cup squad, the England World Cup squad, and instead, they give us three players of Sweet Caroline, and I played one, and boy, George said, please don't play that song again, cause he didn't like it. So, I lost my luxury item, but they wouldn't let us know the scores or anything. In respect of who I was in with? Who you were in with? I was in with Roman Kemp, who was cool. And Nadine Coyle, who's a dear friend of the family now. Because plus, Nadine's family and my missus, Nadine's family and my missus were in the hotels, back next door, just getting hammered every night, while we was in the jungle. But like, we're really tight with them. You know, so obviously, Kate Garraway. You know, you do get a bond with people. So you can make friends. You know what I mean? No, you can bond with people, but then leave it there. You know what I mean? Yeah, but what's... What happens in the jungle stays in the jungle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course. Right, last question. This one is a difficult one, I think. Ten Hag or Postacoglu? Ooh. In what respect? That's the question. Come on, man. It's a state. Postacoglu. It's a question. No, man. Postacoglu. Who's a better manager, you mean? At the moment, Postacoglu is not even... It shouldn't even be compared at the minute with what he's done in Tottenham in such a short space of time. I think it's enough. It's up top. Ten Hag won a trophy last year. He's won a trophy, yeah, but the thing is, he's won a trophy in a time where they weren't expecting too much. It was about the results and getting in there. So whatever got you in there is gonna be, is gonna be, like, it's gonna suffice. But you're gonna tell me now, you start a new season and we're still seeing, what? What we're seeing? You see, Andrew's coming under a lot of pressure. Andrew Postacoglu. He's coming under a lot of pressure and, you know, he's showing us that Tottenham are playing a certain way. Who was under pressure? Who? Who did you say was under pressure? Postacoglu. He wasn't. How can he not be under pressure coming from, coming from Surrey to Tottenham? There was no pressure on him because people weren't, people weren't expecting much. They were so keen. They were like, let's see how this goes. What do you mean, they weren't expecting much? They weren't expecting much from him. Were they expecting Tottenham to do what they're doing now? Absolutely. I take the finger. And they're doing it so... But he wasn't under pressure. They were saying, everyone was doubting him. So straight away, they went, all I can do is do better by everyone's thing. So you think that if Postacoglu starts and he starts like... Ten hours. A season later, like ten hours later. Oh, yeah. Oh, he's under pressure. Oh, we knew that would happen. He's not experienced enough at this level. Ange, bro. Ange. But he wasn't under pressure. The other managers were under. Absolutely not. He's not under the pressure. You're saying to me that Postacoglu's coming in and Tottenham, with everything they're saying... They lost Kane. As soon as Kane went out the door, everyone was writing Spurs up. What were people saying? Where's the goal's gonna come from? That's what they're gonna say. And look what he's done. There was no expectation on him. How can there not be an expectation on him? Because Spurs have done nothing for 20 ******* years, except for a few years. You're not expecting... As soon as Kane left. Roy, it's Christmas. As soon as Kane left. You be quiet. As soon as Kane left. As soon as Kane... Don't speak to Jew like that. Nah, she slagged me off earlier. As soon as Kane left, everyone was Tottenham... Righty. There's no way if Tottenham don't start, if Tottenham don't start, if Tottenham start badly... Of course, yeah. Yeah, he would have been. So he's dealt with that brilliantly well and he's shown... He's done brilliant, but it's October. Sorry, girl. I can't do this. We'll do this after. That's the end of the episode. Is it? Straight to football, yeah. We have to come to the end of this show. So thank you, Ian. Thanks, Roy. Thanks, Jill. Thanks, Cara. Don't thank Roy. No thanks to Roy. I'll see you all next week. Nice one, girl. Fuckin' hell. It's like trying to hurt fuckin' cows. Fuckin' honest, I can't be a host. Fuckin' ----. Of course he's not under pressure. He's under no pressure.