Lets Talk About Colorism Within Asian Families

Asians like fair skin too. Texture, right? Right, but that's not because they want to be white Europeans. I don't want to be the white skin. I want to have the milky skin. Put the Hokkaido. I want the Hokkaido milk cream look type of colorism. David, the sun's shining on me. I don't want to get tanned right now. Has intra-family colorism played a role in your life? This new study from London is causing people to talk about it. Yeah, this is going viral in several circles on the internet right now, Andrew. It is a study from the King's College in London where it said Asians with darker skin tones are more likely to experience bias even from within their own families. Somebody said within families children with light skin were often favored while those with dark skin was stigmatized and subjected to insults and bullying. Oh, so guys. Yeah, I mean this is a tough topic to talk about but hopefully I think by us having a discussion, maybe you take something away from it and maybe it helps you think about it because again, I know skin color, skin tone, colorism, racism, whatever. There's all these different dynamics that are going on in the world and I would say that this study, although it's not shocking to a lot of people, it kind of confirms what people already believe. So make sure you like, subscribe, turn on your notifications. We're going to try our best to give a very good analysis, a productive conversation. Like I said, these things are difficult to talk about. It included a quote, Andrew, from a 31-year-old Pakistani woman who said her mom would say, how come your sister is so much lighter than you? How come you're so much darker than your sister, huh? You didn't wash properly? Yeah, first of all, I think any family that does this to their kids is wrong and I think it's toxic, but I do think I guess the study, it only pulled 33 people and then most of them were South Asians. So I think maybe the dynamics within South Indians or Indian, sorry, is a little bit different than like even other Asians, but I don't want to say it doesn't happen amongst other Asians. No, for sure. I think that that's why it went so viral is even though that the sample size was just 33 people, I guess the findings, like you said, they go along with what people already believe to be true. But I will say this, I think it varies a lot family to family, right? And what are the factors that impact it? I mean, family to family, what kind of how classist is that family, even the world that that family operates in or the jobs or the careers and the community that that family's in. If your mom is like Michelle Yeoh's character in CRA, I'm not saying Michelle Yeoh herself personally. I mean, she was probably colorist. They didn't bring it up in the movie, but I would assume a mom that's like that is. Somebody says it also matters what subculture and world you operate in, right? For sure. It matters. And ultimately your mileage may vary. Like we said, Andrew, me and you personally within our own family, even though there are different shades, even our parents are different shades of colors. There was not this dynamic. No, we didn't talk about it. They didn't talk about it at home. Like even if we got tan, we were out doing yard work with our dad. Mom never complained. Oh, why are you guys getting so dark? You need to put on sunscreen. No, she was weird. Just rock the tan line. So I think shout out to our parents and shout out to any parents out there who never judged people outwardly on that type of thing. And I think that's very important. It does trickle down to the kid. But even though we did not have it within our nuclear family unit, Andrew, did we observe it within any sort of systems that we were raised in? Sure, you know, I mean on church on Sundays, we would go to church and there would be a lot of different types of Chinese people and Chinese people. If you guys know, even though most people think they're just like one thing, it's 1.4 billion people. So there actually is a gigantic spectrum. I mean right off the bat, listen, the southern Chinese generally a little bit more tan than the northern Chinese or the Taiwanese people at our church growing up, right? And there was a girl who was half Chinese and half Filipino, but she was raised our mom that was in the Chinese side. And um, I we all everybody at church like you thought she was cute. Yeah, everybody thought she was good looking. Yeah, but I noticed some of the more traditional minded East Asian guys did not like her because of colorism or I guess the feature set or the skin tone, but me and you obviously we were hanging out with a lot of Vietnamese, Filipino, Cambodian people. We're going to hot import nights looking at different looks and stuff like that. But for some people they were not open-minded to that. Look, they only wanted JA not well. I was gonna say JAV, but I was like saying for sure JV J-pop anime looks now that girl look like AVG. That's what I grew up being attracted to. But yeah, I do want to talk about before we get into the comment section is like that how colorism in a homogenous East Asian society like Korea or China or Japan it is different even though there is a skin tone thing there going on. It's different than in the colonized countries like possibly like India the Philippines and obviously Latin America. It is it is actually they've actually have a aristocratic class that is mixed that is and I want to make a distinction and we're going to dive into it but still colorism nonetheless, but I think the reasonings are very different. Um, so also I remember Andrew it depends on what world you're in because I remember when we were breakdancing when we were of hip-hop choreo if you're in basketball battle rap more like I guess urban hip-hop subcultures. I would say being a light-skinned did chinky Asian was not good. Oh, you could argue that it was like I remember some of the Filipino girls. They're like a little chinky for me to look as not no, no. I mean definitely in those worlds being kind of like a lighter skin East Asian person. It was not helping you. Yeah, so it matters but of course everybody's going off a societal macro almost like ancient thing right now. Let's get into the comment section Andrew. Somebody said it seems that way everywhere in the world. It's not just their sample size. Yeah, it's this exists in many different regions even in Europe the Scandinavians and Anglo-Saxons are viewed differently than the Iberian Peninsula Mediterranean whites. Yeah. I mean, I guess even within white people they kind of do discriminate against gingers redheads, right? Like a little bit even that's inter UK. Yeah, that's in that's intro white guys. And also I do want to note that yeah, most people agree that colorism is the most extreme in places that were colonized by Europeans, but that are not natively European, right? I think that if you come from a colonized place, I understand there's different levels of colonization. It would be more of a Western style of colorism where like we said, there's still colorism in a place like South Korea, right? But it's not the same type of colorism the sun shining on me. I don't want to get tan right now. Somebody said this is another internet comment. Hey guys, don't over read in a skin color skin color may be a factor into lookism within certain places, but there's a lot of other stuff that you're not considering whether it's religion income class education class ancient tribal rankings of where you fit in a dynastic or Imperial like King system. Yeah. I mean a lot of people like to point out. Oh of white guys a millionaire and a black guys a millionaire then, you know color isn't going to matter race isn't going to matter to them. Yeah. I mean, I do think it's also an economic class thing, you know, like and if you are coming from a comparable class and even if you're a little tanner skin, I don't think people even think about it, but I think it varies. I think some places they would go off the color of the skin and other places. They would go off the other staff those parts we call racist. So how different is it like in the places that have been colonized? For example, everybody points out Latin America the most it was a ton of anecdotes in the comment section from Latin America, but to a lesser extent the Philippines and even to a lesser extent India. Yeah. I mean, I think that those places of course because they have like a whole class of person that is part European and generally that class of people is considered higher class or richer or they happen to be richer or their lineages richer or whatever they dominate economics or politics or media or whatever because if there are the colonizers if they're at all a blood a descendant of the colonizers than they usually are put in a better position to some more elevated pedestal immediately, right? Whether whether just off look or maybe even their family dynamics are more powerful, but I think it is important to note that let's just use like China. For example, that colorism in China is not based off of like colonization from Europeans, right? And a lot of people like to point out like Oh Asians like fair skin to Asians like fair skin to look at the k-pop stars like very milky snowy texture, right? But that's not that's not because they want to be white Europeans. So that's why I would say it's not so much a whiter skin thing. It's a lighter skin thing, but it's not because they want to be European. They just like that soft milky snowy white skin with the dark black hair and that may have been related to working in the fields or the type of Industries and jobs that were available even just like a hundred years ago like obviously jobs in the past 50 60 70 years have dramatically changed. I mean since a hundred years ago think about the makeup that like Geisha's wear or like the Chinese Opera wears like if when they put on the white face, they're not trying to play Europeans. They're just saying like this is while the high-class people do it. They don't stand out in the sun, but it gets confusing because when people say white skin, they're thinking about like a white Anglo-Saxon European obviously the most dominant group. I guess globally the last couple hundred years whereas really they use milky and snowy a lot. That's those are the words I hear translated. Yeah. I want to I want to have the I don't want to be the white skin. I want to have the milky skin put the Hokkaido. I want the Hokkaido milk cream. Look, how is it in colonized countries and or there was a lot of comments from various platforms talking about I guess Mexico because of Mexico specifically is that easiest use case to see intra family colorism. I'm not saying all by the way. I'm just going off the comment section because 60% of Mexico is mixed mestizo, but they said about 20 to 30% is white European looking in Mexico and 10% is very Mayan or Aztecan indigenous looking. I don't know. Maybe there's something that Unites Mexicans man. They just like to hang out with each other and just chill and crack a beer open. So I don't know they must have I do think I did hear that. They do have some discrimination that they have within their world because if you look at the Mexican entertainment industry Andrew, it is more of the European looking ones. Yeah, for sure for sure and I would say with the Philippines the Philippines the people was elevated in the media is like usually a half or quarter European. Yes, but I mean, I think that what I think how you have to look at things is how differently are the tanner darker skin people treated in that country and how many laws were set up to hold those people back because in America the the racist laws. They were very specific. Yeah, because America so mixed they had they had all these definitions they put a hard no on certain people. So I'm saying I guess in those countries. I'd like to know like what the laws were against mixing and and how people are treated. Obviously, I understand that tanner skin people are generally sometimes treated differently. You know, that's interestingly enough Andrew even historically in America. I would say that Chinese were got viewed with a no by those laws and Japanese were almost like a half. Yes. If you look historically guys, I'm not talking about yeah, they have the internment too, but I'm just saying as somebody said in Mexico, they have words such as Castillo Mexicano in the Philippines. They have a word called mestiza and in India. They have Anglo Indian and those are to indicate the people who are mixed with. Yeah. I mean you guys know that like within China. We don't really have a term called like Anglo Chinese, right? That's not a term we have like maybe in like I guess maybe Hong Kong Malaysia Singapore a little bit more like Hong Kong. Maybe a little bit a little bit but it's very it's very seldom interestingly enough Andrew people said in Europe the Scandinavians and the Anglos are viewed as more rich and prosperous than Mediterranean Europeans. However, especially the Mediterranean men, but even the women are viewed as better looking. Yeah, and I thought this one comment was really interesting said, yeah, it's a proven fact no way. So why do light-skinned people want to get tan though? And why do they age so badly? Yeah, I do think it's interesting. I guess that's like a stylistic people want things that they don't have right or they think they're like, oh like let's just say there's a it's like so weird to say this. But like, yeah, let's just say there's an Anglo-Saxon person, but they're like, they're like what am I missing? I have the rich in the prosperous face, but they don't look cool. I don't look I can look like I can salsa very well where that's where I wish I had the look of an Italian man. Yeah. I mean, I would say with some white people are so pale. They just look cold, right? They just look like they're talking about the chase Buttinger where they got the blonde eyebrows. Yeah, they they literally do look like they've been in an ice bath like since they were born somebody said, of course, it's different family to family, but growing up. My grandma always said these mean colorist things to me because I was darker than my brothers sisters and cousins. Yo, you had all the examples, you know, what's funny and this is kind of messed up though. I think a lot of moms and some side about the mom side of the family is always the most like black pill like about look lookism. Yeah, like the dads don't really care because dads are just like, I don't know just do good work and just be a man and just be productive. I don't want to think about this cosmetic stuff, but then women generally think about cosmetics more and there's I think to be honest in global society anywhere women's like looks is I guess impacts their life more than the looks of a man. I guess that makes sense. Yeah. Um, somebody said is this why Asian girls like marrying white guys so much? Hmm. I don't know. I don't I don't know. Yeah, somebody said well to be honest in the future environments that are probably likely to occur on Earth melanin will be a huge advantage to prevent cancer also in space exploration and because it also has more elasticity scientifically speaking. Hey, that's a case for the tanner skin darker skin. Um, this is these are more personal comments. Like I said, we cannot get to all of them guys. Like I said, do not get offended. These are not my comments. I'm just analyzing other people's comments. Somebody said I'm Cantonese. I was speaking Canto to another Canto lady and she said I don't look Canto. I took it as a compliment interesting, right? This has to let's be honest Andrew if we're going to get deep cut here. It has to do with like how different groups and this is sort of an intra family thing, but it's just a larger dynamic different groups view themselves with different self images, right? Yeah. So for example, like I noticed my Korean friends where like there's three siblings and one of them doesn't look Korean that person feels bad, right? Because they're like, oh, I don't look Korean because the Koreans are they're like have that image of being good-looking right? Whereas this guy saying oh, I'm Canto, but I got identified as not Canto and that made me maybe feel like ooh, maybe I look Korean. I'm elevated. You know, what's messed up is like a lot of people don't even feel like certain groups of people can have good-looking people because they feel like oh, well, if you're good-looking from that group, you must be something else. Hey, yeah, honestly, it's sometimes happens for Canto people. I'd say this does it does it remind you of an Irish guy? He's still proud of being Irish. He likes the kilts. He likes haggis even but at the end of the day if he wants to be viewed as more sexually in a global way, he's like maybe I did wish I look, you know more like, you know, like a Yeah, all of skin guy. Yeah. I don't know. I mean possibly I know you think it's true. There's another comment Andrew in the Asian world. They're like man, you're not just judged on skin color and lookism. It's also how short you are how fat you are or how ugly you are. I mean, I think your aesthetics in your appearance always play and there's multiple factors. That's why I would like to think that in the modern day with most people. It's not just about like if you're tan skin or darker skin, it's more about you could be a super good-looking dark skin. Yeah. I think there's enough like good-looking people of every color and every like ethnicity that like people have seen now, but it's just maybe it's a more good-looking thing. Now. Yeah, I definitely think amongst the older generation Andrew. Do you agree that for the older generations in Asia? They pretty much go off height look and probably skin tone does play in a look thinness education and money. This guy said that it seems like humor good works in society sports and other intangible skills such as vibes do not really up your status to the older generation. I mean just talking about personality because the older generation was coming from a time where your economic status meant so much that meant if you were going to come to America or not or that meant if you were going to live a good life or not now, obviously did not pick people based on vibe. Yeah. Now that we're all in America and everybody kind of you generally know how to live at least at middle level like middle-class lifestyle. Like yeah, it's it's more about maybe your vibe. I do disagree with that though. I always notice that at church. I know our family was not like that but some of the families the man like I said, there was a pretty big variance in Some of them. It was like if you wasn't the tallest best-looking biggest sharpest nose kid in the family. It's like you get like a second tier status. Yes. Some of those tall good-looking guys are boring bland ass personality. Melandy act like it's 1935 in the ish. Um, let's get into our takeaways. Like I said, there was like so many comments from so many different platforms. I could not possibly get to them all. What do you think? How do people lean away from colorism? And obviously like we said, there's different types of colorism. There's intraracial which is like two different ethnicities. There's ones that are regional within a country and there's ones even within a family. But obviously the King's College London study was talking about it in the most micro nuclear family way. Yeah, I do think it's hard to change your family, but it's just growing up and opening yourself up to kind of like products or cultures from people who look differently and I hope that's what families can do, you know, like even just like for us eating food going to different restaurants. Like there obviously are groups of people that have darker skin Jamaican people. I mean like Nigerian food or even Filipino food or Indonesian food. These are all skin to Vietnamese food, Cambodian food. These are all foods Indian food, right? Like you can just go into these restaurants and just connect with the people and enjoy something from them and that's going to help that family open up. Obviously if your family is super super racist, I don't know what to tell you. It's very hard for me to have a solution for you. Yeah, just got to get away from them at some point. But yeah, I think that's one thing that you can ask of your family, you know, for sure. How do you determine between preferences and racism because obviously some people that are older let's just say the colorist people in your family intra family. They would defend themselves being like it is just a preference. Okay, it's not like a racism preference. There's a thin line between preference and discrimination and then discrimination to racism. These are all steps and it has to do with I guess extensive extremity and applicability and preferences depending on how specific they are. They can sound kind of discriminatory, but I guess it just depends on the person. So it's case by case. I noticed that one major thing for myself was listening to a lot of different genres of music. Like you said earlier Andrew eating different genres of food like authentic versions, not the gentrified version listening to like hip-hop. Of course, hip-hop is like so cool because and basketball as well because you can be a fan of Luka and Jokic. You can be a fan of LeBron. You can be a fan of Jose Alvarado, Yao Ming, Jeremy Lin, Eduardo Nahara. There's like a huge spectrum within basketball, right? Yeah. What would you say to kind of wrap this up like as far as people because I think there is some feeling like listen, if you're if you're like you're very tuned into this and you know you have darker skin and you feel like oh man, like people are going to always judge me or all the old traditional people will at least like how do I live like a good life, you know, I think the key is that there's so many levels of your life. There's your micro life that you're born into right up, but there's also elements in the micro you can shift. There's your mid which is your neighborhood in the city. You know your locality. Let's say the closest 500 to 5,000 people and then there's the globe like statistically guys. There's 8 billion people in the globe. I believe it's 7.9 billion. So what levels are you like looking at? Yeah, you know what I mean? Because it's like every level is completely different and we all live in different fishbowls. Some people live very big ranging lives. Some people live very hyper fishbowl lives. Yeah, and I think if you're around a family or a group of people that are very much judging you on that constantly and you feel uncomfortable. I mean, how don't you get away? Yeah, that's wrong. It's honestly wrong. It's outdated. People should be judged on because they're not going to empower you if you buy into their validation and their societal skeletal metrics people should be based on what they can provide how they behave their personality all these other things and you know are so much more valuable. But anyways guys, I don't know if we sound like a broken record colorism is bad. Like I think it's pretty clear but it still happens. So I think hopefully this conversation was helpful in some way. And yeah, I mean, you know, maybe we didn't I don't have the end-all be-all solutions for everybody, but just hopefully it was just good to get it out and talk about I know that's a hard and I know that it's interesting Andrew because some people view colorism as such a tier embedded issue. They don't want to talk about it because they feel like it's a given and other people view it as a C or D tier issue where they're like, yeah, it's a thing but it's such a light thing. Let's not talk about it. So why do you think there's like some people are considering it a issue and a C issue, but both of them are not trying to talk about it. Yeah, and I know talking about it in a productive way can help the feel like maybe other people are like, I don't need to talk about it. It's so simple to me, but other people are like I really needed this. Yeah, I think in 2023. It's not probably the number one thing. I think there's probably other factors that I think are will more change how people perceive you but it is it is definitely a factor 100% and like we said guys it depends on your family and the world you're in and what systems you buy into all it can tell people is go out there see different reps. Look at what's empowering to you and man. I just hope everybody has a successful happy life. Let us know what you think in the comment section below keep it civil. Like we said guys, we're tackling the tough topics until next time we hop out boys. We out peace.