C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien on the power of Fiction

Clive Staples Lewis
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8 Video Views·Feb 12, 2023
I've always been so impressed with how J.R.R. Tolkien led his atheist friend, C.S. Lewis,
toward faith in Christianity. You know, J.R.R. Tolkien and Lewis were both teachers at Oxford.
Lewis was a lecturer, Tolkien was a full professor, a little older. Tolkien was a very devout Catholic
Christian believer. Lewis was an atheist. And one day, walking on Addison's Walk along the River
Chairwell by Lewis's rooms, Tolkien made an evangelistic move that basically laid the
foundation for that atheist becoming a believer. And I've always been amazed. You want to know
what it is? To understand it, you've got to go to Tolkien's not that easy to read,
but absolutely crucial to read, essay called On Fairy Stories. One of the things that he says
on fairy stories that I think is amazing to me is what he calls secondary belief. He says,
when somebody tells you a story and you know it really happened, that's primary belief.
When someone tells you a story that you know is fictional, you know it's fiction,
but it's so well told, and the characters are so well developed, and the plot is so
well developed, too, that even though you might sit there at the movie or listen to read the book
and you're really kind of indifferent, you get drawn in, right? You get scared. You get happy.
Because if the story is well told, Tolkien said, then the story commands what he calls secondary
belief. It draws you in. It makes you have the feelings as if, to some degree, it was true.
You get just as scared, even though you know it's not true, but you're scared for that character.
You care about that character, and you're excited when you see the resolution.
He calls that secondary belief. First thing. It's very important. Then he goes along and says,
there's a kind of story that human beings, even today, we live in a secular realm, a secular
time, a scientific time, and the leading lights of modern literature have been telling us,
life is meaningless, then you die, and yet, Tolkien says, we still crave a certain kind of story.
We crave it in movies. We crave it in books, and these are stories that depict a supernatural
world. We're just fascinated by that, those stories, that depict being able to cheat death,
escape death, escape aging in time, stories that show us a love that is eternal,
a love without parting, a love that overcomes death. We want stories about good absolutely
triumphing over evil, destroying evil. We love stories about victory snatched from the jaws of
defeat, or sacrificial heroism that brings life out of certain death. We pay money to watch those
movies, and we pay money to read about those stories. The modern literati, they're myths,
they're legends, they're fairy stories, they're fairy tales, basically. Modern people say,
life is not like that, but Tolkien points out the fact that these are deep human longings.
And for some reason, human beings, even in our day and time, want the kind of stories that are
very, very well told, that evoke secondary belief, that catch you up in them, that tell you that
good will triumph over evil, that there is a supernatural world, that you're not stuck in time,
that there is love without parting, that there is a way of escaping death. Now, Tolkien said,
why would people still feel this way? Now, what Tolkien's about to say here, I can't prove from
the Bible, but it fits in with the Bible. He says, we're made in the image of God, but we're fallen.
And therefore, weirdly enough, human beings know at the fact level, we all do have to die,
that evil often triumphs, that no matter how much you love somebody, eventually you're going
to lose that person, or they're going to lose you. And we know at the factual level, and we also are
told at the factual level, there's no supernatural. So at the factual level, there's no supernatural,
we're going to die, there's no escape, good is not going to triumph at the factual level, and yet
underneath, almost, he says, all human beings feel, but there shouldn't be death. We're not meant to die.
We're not meant to lose our loved ones. Good should be triumphing over evil. There ought to be a
supernatural world. We shouldn't be just stuck in time, and then we're dead.
But at a deeper level, we feel like this is how reality ought to be. In fact, this is, that's the
reason why Tolkien believed that even though fairy stories at the factual level aren't true, most
people feel in some ways they are true. They point to an underlying reality that's almost more true
than the way life is actually being lived in this world. That's the reason why we still pay good
money to see the kind of, that's the reason why the happy endings, that's the reason why the heroic
sacrifices that bring good out of, you know, to triumph out of defeat and all that, that's what
we still want to watch. We don't want to read Ulysses. We don't want to read high literature
that's nice and nihilistic, because that's the way life really is. We say, well, maybe it is,
but it shouldn't be, and that's the reason why the popular stories tend to be like fairy tales.
And so, Lewis, C.S. Lewis, though he was an atheist, really, really, really felt the power
of the myths and the legends and the fairy tales, and he loved them. But, he said, even though they
point to a kind of what life ought to be like, they're really not. It's that, you know, they're
not true. And as he was walking along with Tolkien that day, he said something like this. He said,
yes, but myths, fairy tales are lies, though breathed through silver. Myths are lies, even
though they're breathed through silver. As beautiful as they are, as much as they point to
the way I think the life really ought to be, they're just lies. And Tolkien said, no, they're
not. And he says, here's why I'd say they're not. Look at the gospel. Look at the story of Jesus.
Do you realize what you have there? Everything that moves you about a story. Escape from death,
a love that conquers death, good triumphing over evil, heroic self-sacrifice. And when everything
looks the darkest, life out of death, triumph out of victory, out of defeat. Everything you want
in a story, Lewis said, yes, it's true. But he says, I want you to see something.
The gospel story of Jesus is not one more wonderful story pointing to the underlying reality.
Rather, Jesus is the underlying reality to which all the stories point. And the reason we know
that is because of the resurrection. See, Tolkien says the resurrection is what happened.
The resurrection was this underlying reality breaking into this world. And the way life ought
to be, and the way life is, Jesus Christ is our great captain. He's opened a cleft in the pitiless
walls of the world. He's punched a hole through that concrete slab between life as it is and life
as it ought to be. Between the ideal and the real. And now, because of the resurrection, the resurrection
proves that the cross was not a defeat, it was a triumph. It proves that Jesus made satisfaction
for sins. It proves that now God can come into your life. It proves that now Jesus can come into
your life because he's alive. He says, take a look at the evidence for the resurrection.
Basically, he said that. The resurrection means that Jesus is not one more beautiful story
that makes you feel good for a while, and then the lights dim, and you walk out into the real world.
Jesus Christ is the underlying reality to which all the stories point, breaking into our world.
And that's the reason why there's a place where, in the fairy tale, on fairy stories,
Tolkien says this. He says, the peculiar quality of the joy in a successful fairy tale can be
explained as a sudden glimpse of an underlying reality, but the gospels contain a story of a
larger kind which embraces all the essence of those wonderful fairy stories. The gospels contain
the greatest and most complete conceivable eucatastrophe, which is a good catastrophe.
The catastrophe is the old Greek word for world-changing turn. He says, the story of the
gospel has entered history and the primary world. The birth of Christ is the eucatastrophe of man's
history. The resurrection is the eucatastrophe of the story of the incarnation. The whole story
ends in joy. There is no tale ever told that men would rather find was true than Jesus' life,
and none which so many skeptical men have accepted as true on its own merits.
Emile Callier was a professor of philosophy at Princeton Seminary, and he tells a story of how
he actually found faith. He was an agnostic, went off to World War I. He was an agnostic.
He didn't really believe in God. He was into philosophy. He was kind of skeptical about the
whole idea of religion, but during World War I, he had an experience like a lot of other World War
I people. He actually had one of his best friends was talking to him right next to him about his
mother, died like that with a bullet in his chest. Later on, a bullet hit him. He was in the hospital
for a while, and he realized even though he was an agnostic and he still wasn't sure if he believed
in God, he realized that to really make sense of this world and this life, he was going to need
more help than just his skeptical philosophy. So he started reading poetry. He started reading
books. He started reading things, and every so often, he would find a passage in this book or
this writer or this author that really seemed to make sense to him, and he said in his account,
he said, I began to long for a book that understood me. I began to long for a book that understood me,
and he came up with an idea. He bought a leather-bound little diary, blank, please, and he said
every single time he read something that seemed to make sense to him and help him, he was going to
copy it down, and after about a year, he hoped that he would someday sit down and open it up and read
page after page, and I'd finally have a book that made sense of my life and made sense of the world
and gave me the joy I was looking for, and after he worked on it for a year or two, one day he went
out and sat under a tree and got his book out, and as he read it for the first time, you know,
just to read it through for the first time, he was deeply disappointed. He realized he'd already
changed, and so some of the things that really hit him a year ago didn't hit him anymore,
and he realized that he himself was a moving target, that any book he compiled or any book
he wrote would be sort of like a gun pointed here, and then he would move, and he said,
he said, I was never going to find a book that understood me. That very day, as he was sitting
under the tree, his wife was out walking their little infant child, and along the way had talked
to a French Huguenot pastor who had given her a Bible in French, and they didn't have a Bible
in the house, and she thought it'd be a good idea, brought it back, and he saw it, and he said,
give that to me, and he began reading the Gospels. He said, I read all night, almost all night,
and I actually realized as I was looking at the one the Gospel was written about
that here finally I have a book that's alive and a book that understands me,
but it's not just a book that understands me. He went into the Word of the Lord
to find the Lord of the Word, Jesus Christ, the true story of Jesus. That's what the world needs.
That's what you need.
