Jamie Lynn Spears Interview on Britney Spears Conservatorship Ended

Today we're going to talk about Jamie Spears, and she's had a few interviews come out about her sister, Brittany, and whether they get along or not, and what's going on, what she thinks about the conservatorship. Greg, why don't you tell us about the videos we're going to see. Yeah, I think these videos are from ABC, maybe Good Morning America. She's promoting a new book, so of course she's trying to get out in front and talk about the things that she says in the book. That's created its own kind of chaos, because I read yesterday, Brittany Spears has sent a cease and desist order about some of the comments we're going to see. I've spent most of my life in that cycle of ruinous behavior. His bouts of drinking always caused me periods of torment and sorrow. How did his drinking shape your lives? For me, it created a lot of anxiety. The hardest part was like, could I trust you? Are you drinking? Are you not? It was something that no kid should have to question. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I want you to notice how the head's nodding there and the foot is moving along kind of at the same, roughly the same rhythm as the head. I'm not going to mention anything about that, but say we'll come back to that foot later on. It's interesting that we can see that. And we're going to see some big differences between Jamie's foot there and the interviewer's foot. And notice how they suddenly start to drift even further apart in, you know, their attitudes to each other. But I do want to pick up on this word anxiety and the big level of vocal fry. That's the crackle, distortion in the voice that comes on that thought for Jamie Lynn, actually being the sister of Brittany. Brittany is the queen of vocal fry. If you hear many of her singing tracks, there's lots of vocal fry in there. It's usual for that group, that generation, that culture as well. And it's very popular. It's part of popular culture. But even so, the vocal fry on anxiety is more than her baseline would be. And so I would say there is congruence between the word anxiety and the anxiety and stress in the voice. So I'm going to say when she says she had that anxiety, I think she's being honest about that. And that comes from the vocal fry. Chase, what do you think about that? What do you got? Yeah, I agree with you. One thing that I want you to pay attention to here when this clip comes up is watch her eyes here. All of us around here are talking about eye movement all the time and all these videos that we do. What you're seeing here is honesty. She's moving them as she speaks. They don't access internal dialogue very much or if at all. The movement was likely her going through a series of genuine memories because she's talking about several and she finally goes down into her right, which is during the time that she's recalling this experience in her childhood. And this movement is associated in most people with emotions and emotional thoughts. And she's clear up front that she's speaking only from her own perspective. She never says we or us referring to Britney. And we're not going to hear her say Britney's name at all, I think, throughout these videos. You can take a listen. And I think she's been coached on this, but coaching does not mean deception. It just usually means protection and lawyers. And her head movements are fluid throughout the even nodding during the interviewer's questions before she provides an answer. She's nodding as the questions coming out. So I think we're seeing a whole lot of honesty here and probably some coaching or restrictions being placed on this. Greg? Yeah, I think this is a great baseline video because of a few things. Mark, you're dead on the thing I noticed too, the vocal fry intensified at that anxiety moment. She does that confirming nod you're talking about as she's being asked the question, Chase. Her foot only bounces when she's kind of throwing her family under the bus. And I think we're going to see that intensify as you get further down. She illustrates very effectively with her head as she turns and says, are you drinking? Aren't you drinking? There's congruence between everything she's doing. So this is one of those times I think we're seeing a pretty good baseline in her. There are a couple of things to point out. She shows her lower teeth as she's talking. In this case, I don't associate this one with anger, more with the way Southerners talk. You can see the sides of our mouths draw down over age because of the way we do talk and the way we pronounce letters. And when she says no kid should question, you can see a lot of illustration her head. I think overall, this is a great place for us to start because it gives us a good baseline before she gets to some of the more emotional, more intense things. Scott, what do you got? All right. Her posture is a little bit rigid. She's not very comfortable here. Her gestures aren't very smooth. And right here, we just see the one small one. But this lets us know she's focused on all this because this could be, for all she knows, this is an attack interview. So I think she's braced for that. So whatever's going to happen next, she doesn't know, but she's ready for it. Her sentence structure is very, it's, here's the word very, I hate the word very. Her sentence structure is elemental and she's, mostly what I've seen videos of her before because I watched a couple of them of her talking, her sentence structure isn't as tight as this. I don't know how to say it any better than that, but her words are fairly small usually. Not like in a way where Hemingway is small, where he makes these big pictures and thoughts by using small words and hooks them together. But hers are very, I think she's, the word she's using, she's right on the edge of her intellectual capacity. How does that sound? It makes it sound a bit better. Her hands are clasped. Again, that's part of the whole setting and being uncomfortable because she's braced. There's a key to looking comfortable and making the other person look comfortable. Here we see the interviewer is doing a really bad job of matching and mirroring. She's trying, as you speak to somebody, you want to match them, which means you want to look like them. Sort of mirror them, my colors are changing, but at the same time, you want to sound like they sound as well. We see completely different things going on here. The interviewer is sitting with her leg out, with her foot out, and that's fine, but it still looks a little bit odd the way she's, the way that it's coming out. We'll get into the details of that later. Going back to the sitting, there's a comedian named Nate Bargatze. He's from Nashville. When he sits, that's the most comfortable and confident-looking guy sitting I've ever seen in my whole life. When he sits down on a talk show or on a podcast or whatever, I'll put up a picture of him. If you check that out, this is the most relaxed guy, the most confident guy in the world, and he's a comedian. This guy is the most confident sitter I've ever seen in my whole life. Her face is almost expressionless here. There's a lot of Botox, but I'm not so sure that that's keeping her from showing expressions even a little bit, but a lot of non-expression stuff going on here. He wrote in the book, He spent most of my life in that cycle of ruinous behavior. His bouts of drinking always caused me periods of torment and sorrow. How did his drinking shape your lives? For me, it created a lot of anxiety. The hardest part was like, could I trust you? Are you drinking? Are you not? It was something that no kid should have to question. That was close. Words that you've used in the book to describe her behavior over your lifetime was erratic, paranoid, spiraling. How do you see your sister's state of mind currently? I can't really speak to anyone else's state of mind. I don't think that's fair. But I'm allowed to say how I felt in those because that matters. It matters that I was in pain. Okay, Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So let's talk about feet and the difference between the interviewer and the subject here. So we see on describe her behavior, the interviewer's foot defies gravity and it goes up. I would suggest that means she's got quite a positive idea around this. My guess is, is she's thinking, that's a really good question. This is going to get to the heart of it. This is going to get something good for my interview. We see with the subject, her foot dips down, in fact, the kind of the toes kind of just collapse down a little bit. I'm suspecting that that is more of a negative idea because gravity takes over there. A sense of, oh, I'm not sure whether I really want to go there or you've hit me with the thing that I don't really want to talk about or don't want to talk about it within that framework. Look, all of that is conjecture, but regardless, it's very different what the toes do or the feet do around that question. And for that, for me, that kind of waves a flag around there is a big difference around the angle that the interviewer is coming from and the subject is coming from. And that's going to play out even further as we go along. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, so I'm going to steal a second and I'm going to hand that part to Chase, but Chase talks about digital flexion in the hands. We may be seeing it in the feet here, maybe what we're seeing because she's putting her foot down. But what you notice is this is a pattern now. We saw when she talked negatively about her father, her foot bounced. When the interviewer says words that you have used and she knows there's going to come up something about mental instability, her foot moves again. Those things are indicators to me that something's going on in her head, whether she notices or not. It's a change in her baseline. And then her chin drops. She looks away. She looks down to the right. Her chin drops and she looks away. All that when they're talking about what she's used in the past to describe Brittany. Then she gets very happy that she gets the opportunity to get away from Brittany. This is a redirect. She's given the opportunity when she says state of mind, she's like, well, I can't talk to her state of mind. I can only tell you how it felt for me. And when she does that, at one point when she says matters, one of her shoulders lifts. We usually associate that with uncertainty about what you're saying. And in this case, I think that may be exactly what we're seeing. We're talking about internal dynamics to a family. And the only reason these videos really matter is because you can't talk to Brittany right now. So people care about this video. They've asked for us this many times as a result. Scott, what do you got? All right. We see a little bit more movement here. We see an increase in movement overall for her in this one. And she's using her left hand as her illustrator, which is what she does most of the time in this. The right one comes up here toward the end, but it's mostly the left one she's using. And at the very top of the clip, she completely turns, you know, blocks her eyes and then almost turns away as she lets some air out. She's sort of, she's blocking the, it's like an intake, complete intake blocker. Because the question she feels like I think is aggressive is going to be not a good question toward her. The vocal fry thing in this, I think is from her not being able to sing properly and having done that so long. Because at some points when she's talking at a fairly good volume, she's got a lot of air come through her larynx, you still hear that fry in there. And that fry is from your vocal cords banging together a lot, and it causes like a little scarring and there's little polyps on there. And I think that's what we're hearing. And so when she has less air coming out, it comes through even more. A lot of singers get that, who don't know how to sing properly. If you listen to Alison Krauss, Sia, or Celine Dion, some of the most beautiful voices in the world, when they're just normally talking, they have a really clean, clear tone to their voice when they speak. And there's none of that fry in there at all, not even a little bit. So someone who sang a whole lot and they didn't do it properly, you'll hear that fry even when they're talking at a pretty good volume and have a lot of air coming out through that. Overall, she's still stiff and looks uncomfortable. No charisma, because not a whole lot of changes in her facial expressions. So that's what I got. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, as the interviewer starts, I agree with all of you guys, and right away when the interviewer starts asking this question, Jamie's chin drops down. To use Mark's pen technique to illustrate that. You see the chin come down, and this is a self-protective behavior. Anytime our body starts covering up or preventing access to arteries, access to arteries specifically is one of these protective behaviors. And she says she can't speak for someone else's state of mind, but that's exactly what the quote in the book is all about. But I think it's interesting that she uses the word allowed to discuss what she can say, which I think indicates that there's some handlers or some lawyers involved here. And the only time that she moves her eyeballs to our 3 o'clock or your 3 o'clock as you're watching this is when she's describing being in pain, which I think is truthful because of this. And I went back to see where she had done it in the other videos, and then in the other times she's been on video. These are other interviews that she's done. This 3 o'clock movement, your 3 o'clock, is her baseline when she's recalling something truthful. She moves her eyes in that direction to recall memories. So I think this whole thing is genuine and incredibly guarded. As far as body language goes, we're talking about like the toes curling in, like Greg mentioned and Mark mentioned. I can kind of separate body language. If you just draw like a big plus sign on your paper, you can draw open, closed, confident, and insecure. And all body language can kind of fit in those little blocks. And that's a great way to maybe start teaching your kids. What block would this go in? If you're just sitting in a restaurant, you could point at somebody, start getting your kids trained up in this or yourself. That's all I got. Words that you've used in the book to describe her behavior over your lifetime was erratic, paranoid, spiraling. How do you see your sister's state of mind currently? I can't really speak to anyone else's state of mind. I don't think that's fair. But I'm allowed to say how I felt in those because that matters. It matters that I was in pain. That's good. What was your reaction when the conservatorship was dissolved? I was happy. I was, first off, I don't understand when it was put into place. I was 17 year old. I was about to have a baby, so I didn't understand what was happening, nor was I focused on that. I was focused on the fact that I was a 17 year old about to have a baby. I understand just as little about it then as I do now. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'm going to keep this one pretty short. When she was saying I was happy, her brow was up like, yeah, okay, maybe she was or wasn't. But I do believe she was too involved in what was going on in her life to probably pay much attention to that. Because you see that grief muscle, and that's not an easy one to fake, around her situation, I was having a baby. When you're 16 and you're going to have a baby, you're probably more focused on self than you are outwardly. And I think that may be the beginning of all the stuff that we're going to see through the next videos is maybe she didn't give enough support or whatever. But that's where she's at. She does a really good job of illustrating with her palms up and her elbows away from her body. I guarantee you, Mark has to talk to politicians all the time that do this. Create an axial skeleton because you feel uncomfortable. People don't trust you. When you hold your palms up, your arms should be away from your body, exposing all this vulnerable area. Chase was just talking about open versus closed. When we're honest and we have nothing to fear, we often are very open, exposing our arteries, exposing our joints, as Mark will say, and exposing our soft white underbelly. She does that. It's the best time we see from her. Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So I think the stress and pressure is up to a little bit on this question because to kind of Scott's point of her being, you know, quite a lot kind of maybe uncomfortable and I'll just say composed, let's just, I'll call that composed. She breaks that composure. As you say, Greg, she comes out, she's gesturing, maybe not in a way that is, you know, opening up these vulnerable areas and it's asymmetrical. So it's not like it for the majority of the time, it's asymmetrical. So she breaks composure, but not fully. So she's not kind of fully expressing. She's kind of half expressing. So she's, something's bothered her here. It's jolted her out of the composure, I would say, but she's not fully expressing what's going on. And the thing that, you know, I guess bugs me the most about this, because either I don't have the ability or the can't take the time to go through all the places that she goes to access whatever she's accessing, is what I get from that is just a state of confusion. I go, there's a lot of confusion here because she's going so many places in that, what people would call eye-accessing cues, going around so many places and so quickly that it makes me feel confused, though maybe I shouldn't be, and maybe others aren't confused. Maybe you're not confused by it and you can, you know, put down below what's happening there. For me, too many places, too fast, I get confused. I project that on her and I go, I think she's confused. Well, it's a possibility. Maybe there is a level of confusion around this or certainly complexity or complex conflict around this area. But Chase, give me your view on this. Any ideas on that eye-accessing? Yeah, I think what we're seeing here is genuine confusion. We see it right at the top of the clip, right at the beginning. We see it right in the face. And I think this is a genuine recollection of what she actually felt. And what she's talking about, I was happy. I'm willing to bet that she's learned more about what a conservatorship is over the course of 13 entire years. If my sibling was in one and 13 years had elapsed, I would have probably read at least a Twitter post about it. And I think the suggestion that she was happy to hear about the end of it would automatically indicate that she did know and she was pretty well informed about what it was. But watch her eyes and I want you to count where they go and what you think is really happening here. Send that in the comments down below. What are her eyes doing? What do you see? Scott, what do you got? All right. Here she's animated a little bit. Again, she keeps getting more and more animated as we go along. Her eyes are wide and she's got that constant head movement going on. And we see the grief muscle when she says, I didn't understand. That's when we see that thing pop out. And she says that about being pregnant 17 twice. She wants to make sure that gets across because that's where she's standing, her soapbox to say, hey, I didn't understand what was going on here because I had other things going on. I was pregnant. I was young. And so that's what we see. So I think that's why we see it. And I think it's the only time we see the grief muscle in this, unless I'm wrong, is at that point. And overall, she's concerned and she really wants to get that point across about being pregnant and didn't really understand what was going on. Not that she's being deceptive about any of that at all. I think she's being honest. It's just she wants to make sure she gets that point across. What was your reaction when the conservatorship was dissolved? I was happy. I was, first off, I don't understand when it was put into place. I was 17 year old. I was about to have a baby, so I didn't understand what was happening, nor was I focused on that. I was focused on the fact that I was a 17 year old about to have a baby. I understand just as little about it then as I do now. All right. We good? You talked in the book about the role that you were asked to play in the conservatorship. There was a time where my sister asked me, on her trust and will, if I would be the person who was sure that her boys got what they needed. Whether she's in a conservatorship or not, that was a very normal thing, I thought. Once I realized that she's in a conservatorship, I felt like I just didn't want to be a part of it until maybe she was out of the conservatorship. There was no me overseeing funds or something like that. If that was, it was a misunderstanding, but either way, I took no steps to be a part of it. All right. Mark, why don't you go first? Yeah. This one illustrates best for me the big discrepancy between the interviewer and the subject here. You're going to see the interviewer pull back her hair right at the start. You can see the hair is not in her eyes. And also, you know, on a set like this, you got people who make sure that your hair isn't going to go into your eyes. So it would suggest to me this is an unconscious affect that she has in order to get a result or display. It's a display of power, I would say. Now, why would somebody shift their hair as a display of power? Because hair is seen as power. You'll see across cultures that the most powerful people, especially women, will do extraordinary things with their hair in order to show the amount of resource they can put into that area of the body. I guarantee you that, you know, the hair that the interviewer has there, you know, just one trip to get that done has cost a thousand dollars or more. And the same for the subject as well. That's two sets of very expensive hair. And one of them is going, have a look at that. Look at that power. Now, that's often used as a distraction or a display before the attack comes. And I think that's what's happening here is she comes in with an aggressive question. We then see the shot of her with her hand hanging down by the side. The ends of the hands are slightly obscured there by the three-quarter titles underneath. But either she's got a pen in her hand or she's rubbing her fingers together. Ultimately, that hand, though looking relaxed, is ready to go. It's ready to use a tool or a weapon to attack there. So I would take out of that very aggressive interviewer here. Let me leave it at that. Scott, what do you got on this one? All right. Now we're at, she's even more animated than she was before. So this is growing. It's getting a little bit bigger. Not a whole lot going on, but it's getting a little bigger than it was. Her hands are moving. Her eyes are moving. All these things are in play. Her torso is even moving. All these things are in play. Her voice, her cadence speeds up. Her tone gets a little bit cleaner and clearer because she's got more air coming out. I still hear a little bit of that fry in there because of the vocal damage she's got, but it sounds a lot better overall at that point. This is some of the worst editing, and you haven't brought this up yet, Mark, but this is some of the worst editing I've ever seen in my life in an interview. This is so bad. There's one section in here where in between the words conservatorship and I, it's a completely different room sound, and you can hear it go from the cutoff at the end of conservatorship and then they fade into the word I, when she says I. It's so bad. It's so amateur. I don't know if it's because this interview may have just been so boring, it was unbelievable, or the person who's editing is like, this is their first gig, they're like, oh, I'm going to lean into it, and they chop everything up because it's really a poor editing job on this. So overall, she's still uncomfortable. She's adapting really hard. You don't see it that much, but that's why when she's clasping her wrist, she's adapting. And she looks like, if you look at it through the second view through, it looks like she thinks she's getting in trouble. She looks like a little child who's getting in trouble. So take a look at that. Greg, what do you got? I think the gripping the wrist is more than just an adapter, it's what I'd refer to as sacred space, meaning I'm going to take control of my space by barriering and then take control of the environment I create by squeezing. That's a powerful way of releasing nervous energy and giving yourself some room. Her eye movement to the left is constantly in the area I would refer to as auditorium people. We've seen that her eyes drift to her left memory, and if that's all, she's probably navigating some instructions about language, that would be my guess. If I see a politician, you ask them questions, and they're constantly going here, it usually reflects preparation. It usually reflects that they know what's coming. There's a change in energy here. We all see that. And I always talk about energy direction and focus. Her energy is higher, her direction is all outward, and her focus is very sharp when she's paying attention to this woman. She gets a lot of eye contact. The only time she breaks eye contact is when she's going back over navigating what to say. And when I pay attention to that, I usually associate that with real interest or anger. And there may be some anger here, contained, yes, but anger here. She doesn't want to come across as wacky or that, so she's not going to come out and call her names. But this is a Southern woman, and I grew up in the South, the deep South. She's from Mississippi, I think, Georgia, and Southern women are often not demonstrative in their behavior. They're taught not to be that way, until they are. And she is here when she does the brow beating thing. When she puts her brow down to look under the edge of her brow, that's Southern woman for dammit in my world. My mother probably would not have said that, but if she looked at you, you knew exactly what she meant. And then there's a sudden head stop. That's fairly emphatic, and there's some contempt or confusion that there was no ill will, and then that turtling occurs. She drops her body and gets a little smaller. All that is associated with discomfort with the situation, and a strong demonstrative message is, look, I didn't do anything wrong, is what I'm seeing there. That's what I see. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with you guys. A couple of things I had that hadn't been covered yet. When she says it was a very normal thing, I thought, I think that's a pretty strong indicator that someone explained otherwise to her. And the entire mention of a conservatorship to begin with, she's showing disgust on her face, and we're seeing a big deviation from IHOME here. This is different from before, but not deception per se. Remember the importance of clusters, that we're all looking for not just one thing. So if you're ever watching any kind of body language stuff, and they say, here's a behavior that indicates deception, be extremely, extremely careful, because there isn't a behavior that indicates deception by itself. So we're looking for clusters, and we're looking for stress, and we're looking for terminology and words, and we're looking for that stuff to kind of add up to a little formula. And Brittany's name is still yet to be mentioned. We haven't heard it yet. That's all I got. You talked in the book about the role that you were asked to play in the conservatorship. There was a time where my sister asked me, on her trust and will, if I would be the person who was sure that her boys got what they needed. Whether she's in a conservatorship or not, that was a very normal thing, I thought. Once I realized that, you know what, she's in a conservatorship, I felt like I just didn't want to be a part of until maybe she was out of the conservatorship. So there was no, like, me overseeing funds or something like that. And if that was, it was a misunderstanding. But either way, I took no steps to be a part of it. Excellent. You guys got to cut me quick with that. That was great. She even tried to give Brittany the resources she needed to end the conservatorship. I've always been my sister's biggest supporter. So when she needed help, I set up ways to do so, went out of my way to make sure that she had the contacts she needed to possibly go ahead and end this conservatorship and just end this all for our family. If it's going to cause this much discord, why continue it? So you didn't always agree with the conservatorship? It wasn't about agreeing with the conservatorship. Everyone has a voice and it should be heard. So if she wanted to talk to other people, then I did. I set that up. I even spoke to her legal team, her legal team, previous legal team, and that did not end well in my favor. So I did take the steps to help, but how many times can I take the steps without, you know, she has to walk through the door. All right, Chase, what do you got? So right away, we're seeing strong lip compression. And when someone squeezes their lips together, it's different than them going back into their mouth. That's lip retraction. If you're going back into the mouth, but lip compression typically means that someone's withholding or concealing or holding back something. And when she's saying it wasn't about agreeing with the conservatorship, that's literally what the question was. So yes, that is what the question is about, but there's no denial to the simple statement, which indicates a potential for deception, a lack, a full lack of denial. So it's, and it's also not answering the question. So this head tilt to change conversational direction when she changes what she's talking about. This is a Brittanyism and Brittany's behavior does this a lot. This may have been learned from mom or dad or whoever. And that's all we're seeing here, this head tilt to change direction or conversational direction. But she actually shows fear and hesitation and an emotional recall reaction in her eyes when she's discussing dealing with Brittany's former legal team. And which I think is a little scary, but she's now referred to taking steps, the word steps in two different contexts here. And as an interviewer, if you're ever talking to somebody and you're hearing these themes like this, because most people don't say steps more than once in a, maybe a week or two. So here are these little things that are outliers of language and theme. It's important to remember that because you're going to need to use that language and theme later on to get a confession or to get that person to open up a little bit more. But I think all we're seeing here, she's referring to the fact that she believes Brittany didn't take any action. There's a shoulder shrug to dismiss the possibility that she could have done anything else and still no mention of Brit. Scott, what do you got? All right. I agree with you wholeheartedly. And we see a lot of bad editing here. I think this was, the answer was a lot longer than we're, than we're being given. And the edits again are just horrendous in this, you're going to see a lot more gesturing with the head, a lot more movement going on here. It's calmed down a little bit from the last video, but we still see a lot of action going on. There's a point where we do see lip compression and then she says, um, I think that's a regulator putting the interviewer on notice that she's got something else to say and she's thinking, which is normal. A lot of people do that. Some people just say, um, and just wait because they don't have anything to say, but she does a lip compression and then says, uh, um, um, I think the interviewer is, is in a way being aggressive because she should, she needs to back down a little bit and, and give Jamie land a little bit of room to relax and think a bit. The, um, the body language on, on, uh, for the interviewer is still mismatched to what's going on. And so is her tone of voice. And that part where she looks around and pretends like she's looking for the answer for the to get on my last nerve at that point, um, there's, there's no empathy when she's talking to her either. So it's just more like, uh, you want an interview to be, you know, strong, which you don't want to be aggressive in a case like this, when you're talking to somebody who is in that, in that position, I think. So I think she'd be a little bit aggressive, uh, Mark, what do you got? Yeah. So I'm just going to add two small details to what's already been said there on this idea of legal team. Um, we see, uh, the subjects, uh, Jamie's foot move again. I would equate that with, uh, you know, displaying a little bit of a stress around that legal team element. So I think it backs up everything that we've heard so far from everybody else around that, uh, just a couple of more details on the lip contraction there. I think after the first lip contraction, we also get an eye block as well. The eyes go down the lids shut, and then it comes back. I believe we see bottom teeth of anger. Now I totally get what Greg said earlier on, which is culturally, there is a display of those bottom teeth just because of the accent I've taken a look. And I think it's enough that I would say that I would be alerted and go, okay, well, let's take a look at this. Okay. Let's not call it, but let's take a look at it. So going back, it seems a little bit out of her accent baseline. Then I, I believe I do see the nostrils flare as well, which again is one of the elements of anger. I don't see the head ducked down. I believe the people in anger, duck their head down, bring the forehead down. It's because any blows from above would glance off and not hit the eyes. It's just more protection around some violence that could happen around anger. I don't see that, but I do see two elements there. So I wonder with that unspoken, unsaid element that we might take from that lip contraction, whether what isn't being said is something of anger towards something or somebody. I'm not sure who, but she does say beforehand, I went out of my way. So there may be some anger around that going out of her way, not being recognized, not being balanced out in some way. Maybe some anger around some unfairness around that. I'm not sure. This is all conjecture, but yeah, that's what I got on that one. Greg, what do you got on this one? Yeah, Mark, I'm with you on the foot. There are three times we've seen it. The first one, she called her dad a drunk. The second one, she called her sister crazy. The third one, here's another problem and it's around the legal team. I think lip compression is because she's got a lot to say and she's holding it back. I think when they say legal team, her foot rises, she's got a snarky contempt, half smile on the left side of her face. I think it's the left side. I think there's just baggage associated because when she gets to legal team, she has halting languages. She's talking about it. This all goes to me thinking, yeah, there's either she's been told that there's going to be a cease and desist coming, which we now know has happened after this interview. Some other things may have happened, but there's certainly legal baggage and she went out of her way. It's language. Mark, I think you're right. There's probably some anger associated whether it's outright direct anger or it's hidden. It's there. So I'm with you. She even tried to give Brittany the resources she needed to end the conservatorship. I've always been my sister's biggest supporter. So when she needed help, I set up ways to do so, went out of my way to make sure that she had the contacts she needed to possibly go ahead and end this conservatorship and just end this all for our family. If it's going to cause this much discord, why continue it? So you didn't always agree with the conservatorship. It wasn't about agreeing with the conservatorship. Everyone has a voice and it should be heard. So if she wanted to talk to other people, then I did. I set that up. I even spoke to her legal team, her legal team, previous legal team, and that did not end well in my favor. So I did take the steps to help. But how many times can I take the steps without, you know, she has to walk through the door. Somebody's phone's buzzing. Brittany also posting last July that her sister's tribute performance at the 2017 Radio Disney Awards to remixes of her songs hurt her deeply. Honestly, it was somewhat confusing to me about that. And I actually have spoke to her about that. And I was doing a tribute to honor my sister and all the amazing things that she's done. But you've cleared that up with her? I have cleared up with the fact that I don't think she's personally upset with me about that. Truthfully, I don't know why that bothers her. All right, Chase, what do you got? She uses the word bothers, like, I don't know why it still bothers her, as if it's still in the present. So I think that's a good data point here to get from this. And this is genuine confusion and I think a very genuine expression of disbelief. And she does use the word honestly and truthfully here, which otherwise you've probably heard us say in a previous thing when somebody says this and this, and then we all might call it a potential deception. But that's because we're seeing it with clusters of other behaviors here. And so there's not a whole lot extra here about stress or deception. But when you hear somebody tell you that somebody says honestly and then, you know, a statement means deception, not true by itself. Definitely not true by itself. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so I agree on all of that. Same what I would call confused eye accessing along the way. And by confused, I mean, so many places so quickly. I'm sure you can break it down and put below, hey, here's what I think is happening. But ultimately, the fuller psychological state that comes across to me is confusion. And she says it as well. She labels it. She says confused. And so, you know, again, I think there is a there's a link between the two. And so it feels and seems very honest to me what she's saying there. She clocks the camera part of her eye accessing as she looks down the camera. I think that might be an offer out to her sister to to to talk about this potentially. But yeah, very confused here. Oh, and talking of eyes, I think we maybe see an eye roll from the interviewer, I think. May not be. Maybe she's accessing something, but it looks suspiciously like an eye roll for me again, which is, you know, very poor show. I would say given you got it, you've got a guest there unless you're trying to be pretty aggressive about it. And if you are good on your great eye roll there. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong. Scott, what do you think? I think this is the worst edits of all the clips we've had. This is this is horrible. And it's going to be really tough for people just getting the body language. You're trying to decipher what's going on in this because it changes so much as you go and they go, oh, it's like this and it's like this. So it's going to be confusing. And I don't know if again, I don't know if it's because the interview is just horrifically boring or it's just bad editing or they said a certain amount of time for each one or something, but it's really, really bad. We see more single handed gestures, illustrators here and her voice. It's about 50 50 on the fry and the normal because you got a lot of air going through there. And that goes back to my point of you'll still have vocal fry, quote unquote, when you when you speak loudly or or try to be really clear with a lot of air coming through. Even though you have all that, there's still your lyrics is still banging together in there making that sound. Back to the editing again, everything goes from she's she's up, she's she's engaged like that and she's talking. Everything's going. Her cadence is going fairly fast. Her eyebrows are up in the next then just cut bang within a tenth of a second. She goes back to to sitting back in her chair and she's talking like this again. A lot of vocal fry. It's just really confusing. I think for anyone who's watching this, who's not used to looking for things like that. And I don't think that's fair. I don't think it's fair for for Jamie Lynn for the for the the interview, the editing people to OK that at that point, because we're not really seeing the whole thing. All right, Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'll take the edit a step further. There's conflicting language in that last sentence where she says, hey, she's over it. I don't know what she's concerned about, but we can't use it because there's an edit in there and God knows what she said in between. So be careful. Otherwise, I would be all over that language. She also says truthfully, honestly, somewhat those words. The reason we typically will tell you this means this when we're seeing it is because they're distancing or giving you time to think words. And Mark, I'm with you. The more a person is rolling around their head, they're trying to figure out what to do is what's happening. They're recalling how they felt, maybe what they were told. If I'm over here thinking about what's what the outcome could be and I go back over here and think about what I heard and then I look down and think about what to say. That's because I don't know what to say. And so when a person is doing that, they're going to use words that are uncertain. And so that's what we're seeing with this truthfully, honestly, somewhat. I need words to use when I don't know the right words to say. She's navigating language. She's stammering. My favorite of the entire video, though, is start in the beginning, go back and look at Brittany's body language when her sister takes stage. She's got a big toothy smile and no eye involvement at all. It's yeah, you know, and she's looking around like, how are people perceiving this? It's an interesting piece to see. I think here she's probably so confused. She doesn't know how to approach this. And there's probably some language between those two edits that says something that would have been meaningful. So shame it's not there. And I'll leave it at that. Brittany also posting last July that her sister's tribute performance at the 2017 Radio Disney Awards to remixes of her songs hurt her deeply. Honestly, it was somewhat confusing to me about that. And I actually have spoke to her about that. And I was doing a tribute to honor my sister and all the amazing things that she's done. But you've cleared that up with her. I have cleared up with the fact that I don't think she's personally upset with me about that. Truthfully, I don't know why that bothers her. OK. And says she still has a deep love for her big sister. What happened to that love? Um, what has caused this rift between you? That love is still there. One hundred percent. Um, I love I love my sister. I only I've only ever loved and supported her and done what's right by her. And she knows that. So I don't know why we're in this position right now. Mark, what do you got? Yeah, so it's quite a radical tilt of the head there. And I get what you say, Chase, that that it could be a I think, as Greg would say, a microculture thing. Who knows? So so it could be something she's picked up from a sister that's been picked up from the mom or the grandmother or somebody else, you know, in in the family. All of that said, all of that said, it could still be her giving a radically different point of view or that there is a radically alternative point of view around this, a different way to see this, that there is a moment in her mind where she looks at it from a different angle, which means when she says I've only and she thinks to herself, I haven't only there was a time when I did something radically different. Now, of course, I don't know. We're not mind readers. OK, we look at behavior and we look at body language and we think about it and we talk about it with each other or or to ourselves. And that way we try and get closer to the truth of what we think is going on here. And so that's one aspect I would want to take into account. Is it cultural that's happening there or is she saying there's a radically different situation that did happen there? Both are strong possibilities. Both could be happening at the same time or it's something else that I haven't thought of. So if you think it's something else, put it down below. You could be as accurate as me around that. Scott, what do you think of that one? All right. She's got a lot of Botox. I know I talk about that a lot, but it doesn't explain why her face has been up to this point relatively blank expression expression wise. There are some here and there to come in and out here. We're seeing true cues of sadness. We see the corners of her mouth coming down. So it'll actually the chin boss and her voice breaks and and you can actually hear her cry. Now she does dab a tear. I didn't actually see the tear, but her eyes are a little glassy where it looks like they're welling up in there. So that's probably real as well. And this is emotionally the most we've seen so far. And at the same time, it's the most relaxed she's been so far in this whole thing. She looks almost completely relaxed. Her posture is a little different. The way her head's sitting is a little different. Everything seems a little bit different in here. It is a little bit different in here. And maybe she's she's realizing she's getting her point across finally that she is does have emotions about her sister, that she does feel sorry for the things that happened to her. So she's getting to show those things. That's probably what's helping relax her. Greg, what do you got? Yeah, I'm the same way. I see the chin boss movement to steal Chase's thunder there. I also see her fighting back tears, the body language we typically associate with fighting back emotion and tears. Maybe she's and typically I notice most people roll their eyes up left when they're trying to avoid. And if we associate downright with emotional thinking, then it's probably related in some way. Don't know. None of us really know why that works. I hear just what you heard, Mark. I only dot dot dot. I only in there somewhere. If I were the interrogator or the person talking to her, the interviewer, I would lean into that. Hold on a minute. You only you only what? Did you only do something one time? Did you only you know, we don't know where that was going to Mark's point. The only way we have any control over that is if we're sitting in the room, we see a deviation. We go after it. But this is a big deviation from her baseline. It made me wonder if maybe she's trying to talk and she's looking down the camera. She's trying to talk to Brittany, not to this woman. And that's a possibility. Chase, what do you got? Yeah, I agree with you guys. So keep in mind for this clip in particular, the interviewer asked back to back questions that were very different from each other. And this is this interviewer is kind of awkward, unusual, a little artificial. I don't know what what's the right word is. But what you might be seeing here, if you're if you're a student of body language and behavior is a stress response to the second question and potentially not the first. You can see this Spears head tilt thing again. And and Jamie does that. And when she's moving her eyes to nine o'clock, your nine o'clock, I don't think that that's accessing. If you play it back, I think she's looking at something off camera. I think this entire thing was like Scott is just obsessed with this editing issue. Like I can't I can't get over the editing, too. And it's boring. The whole entire thing is just incredibly boring. But there's some behaviors here that might give us a few data points that nobody else would have otherwise pulled out of this thing. And that's all I got. Says she still has a deep love for her big sister. What happened to that love? Um, what has caused this rift between you? That love is still there. One hundred percent. Um, I love I love my sister. I only I've only ever loved and supported her and done what's right by her. And she knows that. So I don't know why we're in this position right now. Well, let's roll around the room and see what everybody thinks about what's happened in this interview. And then I'll wrap it up. We'll start with Mark, Chase and Greg. Mark. Yeah, so I wonder whether we're seeing anger, confusion around the law and the industry or the family industry that's gone on here in the family law and probably sadness and grief around the sister there around around Britney. There may be some crossover, but I would probably probably, you know, compartmentalize the two based on that that brief assessment that we have there. Chase, what are your thoughts? Yeah, I fully agree. It looks like there is a lot of leverage, control and legal restriction that's all involved in this where I'm I want to go do this interview, but I've got, you know, 71 things on this document that I'm not allowed to talk about. And I've got to sell books. I've got to do all this. And everybody wants to know about Britney, which is maybe one of the reasons we don't hear her name at all throughout this thing. And I think this whole thing goes to bruise when lawyers get tangled up in just about anything. This is usually what happens no matter how strong families are. And I think it's a really sad ordeal, Greg. Yeah, when you turn your family into a business, lawyers are going to get involved. That's just the way it is. And what we're seeing here, whether all families have warts, all families have issues and siblings and that kind of thing. It's just a matter of where they play out. Most of us were going to deal with any issues like that behind the scenes. This one appears to be a train wreck that's going to play out right in front of us on TV. So if this, if Britney and Jamie Lynn and that whole family is your thing, tune in because there'll be a lot of it on TV for you. This is probably the last time we'll cover it. But that's what I had is you see her confused, concerned. All of those things are tied to the fact she has to remember it's a business and she's got all that personality stuff to deal with. And then they've got all the conflict in the background. Scott, what do you got? I agree, Greg. You've been just all over this thing from the very beginning. You've been so concerned about both Jamie Lynn and Britney from this. Hold on. So my heart goes out to you, pal. I'm hanging in there with you. I think she's going to be okay. So I think it's a great example of an interview starting small and then getting just a little bit, a little bit larger as you go along and ending up with the emotional part of it. It's kind of like a turtle race. You have two turtles and they're both racing. They might be speeding up. Hell knows. I mean, they're slow. You know, and this thing went really slow. And I agree, it's horrifically boring. This whole thing could have been a reason for the edits to be the way they were. It might be action-packed now compared to the way it was. But I think it's, like Jason said, I just can't get past the horrible editing on this. I don't think the interviewer did a good job of getting to the real person here. I know Greg was concerned about actually seeing the real Jamie. Jamie Lynn. But I don't think she actually gets in there and gets the real person out. She may have. And again, that's what may have been all the editing may have been going on because of that. But that's what I'm saying. All right. I think it was a good one. And I'll see you next time. I got my truth in. You sure did. I didn't hear it. Oh, dude. But you didn't clasp your hands. I was good enough. I went, my truth. I have to go with that. Definitely elongated. I have to look at it.