Double Bespoke Commission with Two Bespoke Legends - John Kent & Terry Haste

So this is one that I've been looking forward to for a long time. I'm here on Sackville Street, just a stone's throw from Savile Row at Kent, Haste, and Lacter. Now we're all familiar with the famous Savile Row tailoring houses, but here around the corner are two legendary tailors, John Kent and Terry Haste. We had an opportunity to visit with them last time I was in London, and today I couldn't be more excited to be able to walk through these doors and commission pieces from these two tailors. Let's go inside and see what they have in store for us. John, Terry, nice to see you again. Kirby, sorry for sore eyes. How are you? Terry, Kirby, lovely to see you. Thrilled to be back. I mean, can we take your hat and umbrella? A proper February day here in London. We've only got one hanger and this is for this. Did you give him a raffle ticket for that? Yeah. It's so nice to be back. I mean, one of the things that, again, I think that I really appreciate about you two is that amongst all my friends, the better dressed of them, you know, there's two names that keep on coming up, you know, John Kent and Terry Haste, right? Well, I mean, again, just a stone's throw from Savile Row, I feel hidden in plain sight are just two absolutely legendary tailors doing exceptional work. And so we're very excited to be able to film a little bit about that today. Thank you. So one of the things that, again, just strikes me is the exceptional history that you two gentlemen have. I mean, you've been in the industry for a long time. You both kind of come at it from your own perspectives. So maybe for someone that hasn't seen our other videos together, you could share a little bit about your story and how you got started in tailoring and some of your experience. And it is a story, I think. Between us, we worked out we've got 110 years of... No, shocking, isn't it? 110 years of experience between us, which is quite something. It really is. I mean, in this industry where experience really does matter, right? I mean, there is, you know, something to be said. I mean, tailoring is an oral tradition that has to be practiced, right? And so, you know, there is absolutely something amongst tailors that have been doing it longer than others that is just hard to really put your hand on. Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, there's a lot of youngsters coming in. It'll be great, but they've really, you know, got to work at it and get some years under the belt, haven't they? It's obvious, but I've got too many years under my belt. So, I mean, again, it's kind of the incredible history that you two bring to this craft. Yeah, we've got so much history between us. Where does it start? Where does it end? Good. Not all of it's good. Well, the work speaks for itself, and I must say it must be exceptional history. Yeah, I mean, Terry, you lead off. You were with many, many firms. Go for it. Yeah, it makes me sound like I've been around, doesn't it? Well, that's good, though, no? In this industry, I think it makes a difference, right? Yeah, I mean, I started off when I was 15, left school, always wanted to be a tailor, so I came straight into tailoring. I was lucky enough to get a job with Anderson and Shepherd. Oh, really? Okay, so that's starting near the top. Yeah, I stayed there a year, but I wanted to have something a bit more, I don't know, interesting from a tailoring perspective, so I went to a little company called Chapman on Savile Row, who's not around anymore. He died, unfortunately, a long, long, long time ago. And then eventually, after about five years, I sort of hooked up with John at Hawes & Curtis. Really? Okay, so you guys have been with each other that long. Yeah, we've known, we go back a long way, and it was great. Terry, he started, I was a cutter there, and Terry came in as an undercutter, but he wasn't. He was much more advanced, but that's what you come in as a title, you know, but he was, I couldn't teach him much. He's pretty well there. I was only 20 then. You still were, well, I was a lot older, but I mean, you already knew your stuff. You'd been around in as much as the year. No, the year you were there, you picked up a lot, but you can tell we had another apprentice, and there was no way he was going to make it, and he left, but Terry, you know, obviously, had what you need, you know, what it takes, as they say. I mean, as an observer, you know, I was sort of like, they didn't give me the manager type thing, but I mean, I was kind of in between the workshop and the cutters, and I kept eyes on things, and he obviously didn't need a lot of tuition from me, to be very honest. Yeah, well, I mean, tailoring at the end of the day, I mean, especially pattern cutting, is an art, right? And so you either kind of have that instinct in that eye, or you don't, and so I suppose what you're saying is that, you know, that's something that you see from the very beginning. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You can tell when somebody's got it, like any trade. I mean, you know, if you're a bricklayer, and there's good, brilliant ones, and you can see, it didn't need much, but the other chap did, and it didn't last very long, did it? See, pretty much straight away, we normally can tell within a couple of weeks if they're going to make it or not. You know, since we've been together in this place, which is, what, 11 years now, isn't it? You know, people floated in and floated out, and you can see some people. Yeah. Well, it's interesting, I mean, you guys have known each other for so long. You started out together, and then kind of, you know, dripped it apart, and kind of did your own thing, and then came back 11 years ago, you know, at Kent Haste, Lactor. I think that's a plus, don't you, that you're not stuck in one avenue. He learned other bits, I learned, we incorporate each other, probably argue after time, but nicely. You know, in a productive way. Correct. Some of the time. No, no, no. But one of the things that I see is that each of you really do bring a different approach towards the same craft, right? And that's one of the things that I think struck me the last time we met is, you know, John, you're very much grounded in this, you know, very classical tradition of tailoring. I mean, you were, worked very closely with the Duke of Edinburgh, and he's very known for being exceptionally classic and well-dressed. But then Terry, I mean, you know, you've done also kind of your own work also that's very kind of unique. Yeah, we've got, probably a bit more of the Tommy Nutter flair comes into my stuff, and even the Huntsman stuff when I was with Huntsman as well. So, there's not a massive amount of difference between the cutting styles of John and myself, bearing in mind, I mean, he taught me. So, yeah, I've managed to put it all right since then. I helped, I didn't teach you. You already know, boy, you already know. I've got his bad points. You've got my bad ways, you got rid of them. Exactly. But yeah, there's very, very little, but there is subtle little differences, and you can see the differences. But that's the beauty of bespoke tailoring is the details really do exist in the subtleties, right? And you can have two gentlemen such as yourselves, two absolutely exceptionally talented bespoke tailors, you know, doing the same craft really, but bringing very subtle approaches in a way that really accents that and can make something that is the same double-breasted navy suit, but make it different, you know, for two different people. Stamp our identity on it. But I've got to say that as old as I am, I will still say pretty well once every day, I'll go, Terry, can you have a look at this? Would you do it? Don't I? Be honest. I'm not proud. And, you know, he cuts a little bit more, a little bit snappier. Yeah. I can, believe me, I was brought up on riding coats. Okay. I mean, yeah, but my style is quite wasted, but it's got, it's just a little snappier. And I, I kind of look and think. It's probably a little less chest in mine. Yeah, yours, that's right. Sometimes I have a little bit too much chest, which nowadays you reduce a lot because nobody really wants that heavy sort of look. You're talking about the drapes around the chest. I mean, there's drape and drape. So, you know, we still give a little bit on an older type customer. I know Terry does. But basically, let me compliment you as I've done before on that. So it would be more of that styling that we don't, we don't, you don't have to get a lot of waistline by building the top of the coat. You do it on the seams on, you know, you do it on the side body. We don't like too much shape anyway, do we? No, we can. If somebody asked us for the hourglass look, we can do anything they like. But basically, we like, you know, that lovely subtle waistline in the correct position as well, because you see a lot of false waistlines, which look alright on a certain person. On others, it makes them look top heavy. You've got to go by the figure really. Terry, Tommy Nutter, I mean, talk about a legend and, you know, really the history of tailoring over the last 50 years. Yeah, I had a fantastic time with Tommy. It's a shame he died, unfortunately. But by the time I was there, it was probably one of the most pleasurable times in tailoring, really. And some of the people we saw was just unbelievable. It was a revolutionary time for, you know, really kind of pushing the boundaries. It was very, very different. On Tommy's own jacket, all right, we probably went a little bit overboard towards the end. We had shoulder pads that thick. That huge eight and a half inch shoulders. So you've got huge, huge shoulders. But, you know, it used to bring lots of stars in. We used to make the most bizarre things ever. But we still have some of our tailors that worked for us in those days working for us now. Yeah, wow. You know, they can make that bizarre stuff as well as they can make your pain box stand a blue suit or a grey suit. But it was a wonderful thing working with Tommy. Yeah, it was. Yeah, never two days the same. It was always different days every time and... Smashing blowtail, yeah. Yeah, it was brilliant to work with. And he just let you go and do your own thing. He'd just give me a picture and say, this is what I want. I want you to just produce it. So what do you think you picked up from that? I mean, if you were to look at, you know, your kind of DNA or kind of your voice today as a cutter, you know, where are the echoes of Tommy Nutter in that? Well, I like that sort of squarer shoulder, slightly sharper shoulder line. We get a bit of shape, but in them days, because you had the big shoulders, you had to have a big chest as well. So I probably got away with that. But it's just different fabrics, all different fabrics when you put different tweeds together and you mix and match things with that. We used to do a lot of that. So it's got that angle to it. And, you know, I'm not... If someone comes in and asks me anything now, I'll just have a go at anything. Well, you're quite adventurous in that. Yeah, very adventurous in whatever I do. So we used to do, I mean, the most bizarre things ever. We made something for Elton John once, which was so over the top, it was unreal. These big silk jackets, and then he ordered five more. So it was like wonderful, but it's very difficult work. I mean, there was, I think it was something like 40 odd buttons down one side of this coat. Really? Oh my goodness. Hopefully not with buttonholes. Yeah, there was, yeah, one on each side, yeah. Finishers were happy. Yeah, my goodness. When somebody comes in without something to weigh out, you'll hear a shout of, Terry, help! I'm joking. No, we try. Mainly, I mean, I do a little bit of adventurous stuff, but he's top notch at it, to be honest. Well, I've seen both of your work. And, you know, again, one of the things that I really appreciate is it's all very classic and perfectly executed. I mean, absolutely beautiful. But again, there's a little bit of a difference in approach. You know, Terry kind of working in maybe a few more kind of accents or echoes of kind of your past with Nutter. Yeah, I think it will. In a very subtle way, not in a way that, you know, would jump out if someone didn't point it out. And then, John, I mean, you know, the stuff that you did at the Duke, you know, you know, I mean, you know, no vents and, you know, very kind of structured and traditional. Yeah. I mean, you see that and it's absolutely beautiful. And it's not something you see often anymore. It's timeless, really. Yeah. If you're a dresser like you are, and I keep referring to you, but I've got to because you are. And we get some... I love it, for sure. But we get some great dressers in and some of them, slightly older, not always, want not what I call too many Christmas tree bits on it, if you know what I mean. And then I, but Terry can do that. I can, I could do, he'd probably say, you're doing that wrong. And I'd take note, but I can cut sort of as a very snappy cut. But, you know, it's pointless. He's, he does his thing. I do my thing. But together, it's sort of firm. I mean, we don't, it's not, oh, you know, I'm doing it because I want it like we, we fit in. We fit in. If it's something, we do things together. I mean, we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll share things together. We're doing one at the moment. We're cutting a window model and we kind of, I wind him up and then he winds me up. And then we end up with something really nice. Yeah. You make a point that I think is really interesting, which is that, you know, your clients really are dressers. They enjoy dressing well. And, you know, these are individuals, I mean, amongst the ones that I know that have, you know, traversed all of British tailoring and they've ended up here because, you know, they're able to really enjoy the work that you're doing for them. The last year has been a total change in tailoring, obviously because of the pandemic and the way people's minds are set. We're doing a lot more sportswear, for instance, this year. And the past six months, first time, we've never done this before. We've been making cashmere jackets or tweed jackets, very lightweight jackets with no hair cloth in it at all, just one piece of canvas in it. So it's just like a cardigan. And it's quite amazing the amount of people that like that very, very soft shoulder look. And that seems to be a way we'll be going more forward with that type of look as well, which is totally different from our look for a year. Yeah, basically, yeah. This is all very, very new to us. But it's just a variation on a theme. It's like a tunic. You know, they make such a big deal about tunics. It's knowing where all the braid goes, where the button goes. It's basically even the unconstructed jacket. It's a variation on a theme. But I love it because if you'd have said to me a couple of years ago, I'm going to have a lovely unconstructed jacket or indeed a sports coat, form what we call them change coats. We make a lot of checks, but we get a lot of plain jackets. And I'm going to wear it with jeans. I'm like, really? I think it's great. Yeah, I do want to see as long as the jeans are, you know, scrubbed out, but no holes in them. I'm not doing that. You've got holes in them. Dress denim. You've got holes in them. I haven't got any jeans. Have you seen this figure? But basically, I love it. I really do. I love it. I love a buttoned down shirt with it undone. Pair of knocked out sneakers or gucci's. I think that could look... I don't like scruffy chic. I know that's stupid. Yeah. I just think it looks quite chic on the right guy. Obviously, you get some guy try that and it doesn't work. But we've got some very good figured customers, if that's the terminology. Well, you can make classic tailoring, you know, really look good and casual. I mean, a great jacket with a pair of jeans and tennis shoes. Why not? That's what's happened over the last couple of years, really, whereas look has gone away from suits. Although we're doing a lot more suits now than we were doing a year ago. We virtually had no... We weren't doing many suits last year. Jackets, jackets, jackets. It was all jackets. And now we're just starting to do more suits now, where people are floating back to the office. Well, I think that, you know, I certainly love suits, right? And so, you know, and kind of doing something together. I mean, I really want something that, you know, really speaks to both of you, right? Oh, thank you. And so, you know, John, I was thinking that, you know, the work that you've done with the Duke of Edinburgh, the late Duke, you know, it would be fun to echo some of that. From my point of view, it's a bit of nostalgia for me. Yeah, a little bit of just a tailoring tradition there. And would you mind if I cut it the same style? I think it would be great to explore those details, right? Because fashion is always kind of reinventing itself. So let's bring some of this back. Duke of Edinburgh's tailor, unfortunately he's not with us, but that would be nice for me to go down the route of, you know, simplicity, but with elegance, maybe. Yeah, that would be great. And then Terry, I mean, I think an odd jacket and pair of trousers, you know, would be great to kind of complement a formal suit. And of course, one of the other great strengths of a proper bespoke tailor, someone that really has knowledge and experience, is that understanding of cloth, is really looking to your recommendations of kind of where you would take me with the cloth. What do you think, Terry, for a sports jacket and trousers? We'll have a look. I'll show you some of our tweeds. We've got our own house tweeds. We'll give you a show of that. If you like that, we'll do it with that. If not, we'll look at some other tweeds. And then where do you think that we would go? Well, I'm going to go a bit boring, but it looks fantastic. But you're the customer. Well, I love the classics. I mean, this will be classic, but with a difference. The French called it, they call it pheasant's eye, but in England, we call it a bird's eye. Okay. And I think, well, let me ask you, I would thought a grey on your complexion looks equally as good as blue. Would you like a grey, maybe? You know, I love both, but I certainly gravitate more towards kind of darker greys. That would be nice in a bird's eye. Pretty traditional, but looks great. You can wear, you know, pale blue shirt, white cream, go with a, I don't know, tattersall type of tie or a classic Hermes tie. It's one of those. And if you were asked to go to a race meeting and you're in England and you're, you know, the tweed look is kind of gone. You could put that on with a pair of brown suede shoes and a cream shirt and a knitted tie. You'd be fine. So it's kind of versatile depending on what the accessory is. Yeah. And you've got fabulous shoes and everything about you. It'd be a proper London city suit, but then also. Yeah. But if you were here and a friend said, would you like to go to a race meeting? I've got nothing to wear. You have. You can get away with that quite easily with a different shirt and brown suede shoes or brown brogues or whatever. So I'll go down that route. And Terry, you know, you'll go down. A bit of tweed. Probably a nice pair of flannel trousers. Yeah, that'd be lovely. I don't think you want to do the whole suit in the tweed. I don't think you wear it. I think a nice change coat, because it is. It's not going to. Oh, depending if it's house tweed. Perhaps that blue one might be. Well, we'll have a look at the blue. Yeah, a green one. So we got what you like. Let's pull some fabrics and see. Let's start having some fun. What do you think? Yeah, fire away. Who would you like? Would you like me to show you? Yeah, well, why don't we take a look at the. Is that convenient? Yeah. I mean, I'd love to pull fabric. We got plenty. So bear with me a minute. You can really get lost in all this. And again, one of the great hallmarks of a truly talented tailor is being able to walk their customer through all this fabric. I mean, there's many here, but I know the weight you want. So I'm going to find. Oh, there we go. This is a lesser's cloth. You probably know the company, you know, being what you do. But this is 13 ounce. It's a top quality cloth. The one I try and find it, beautiful 13. We do heavier. But I think this is great. You can wear this, you know, through to sort of July. You don't want one that heavy where you finish with it in March. Because that's pointless. So this is a great cloth. It's a top. Ah, there we go. I mean, your choice, Kirby, my love. But that's a bird's eye fabric. I don't think we want blue. I'm not keen on the blue birds. That's not a true blue. But what about a lovely gray? That's quite 13 ounces. And I've made him one many years ago. In fact, it was a morning suit made out of that. Really? Yeah, it was fantastic. But I mean, I'm talking classic. So do you think? I love the idea of this. I mean, is this something the late Duke would wear? Yes. You know the full morning suit? I made him one in bird's eye. Really? Because he was adventurous. Most people, you know, either black or that normal gray. I made him a three piece morning suit out of that. But he was always primarily wearing solids too though, right? Yes, you're right. It wasn't. Even if you look at his sportswear, apart from toys that has to wear through, you know, Balmorra or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, that's what made him. Yeah. I think you can get fed up with too over patterned. It's like, you know, you go to out for a function and they always got that suit on again. Whereas you can, you know, that's just a classic. Wear that five days a week. You are classic. I can see by your tie and everything. That would make a fantastic. Can I make a single breasted? Are you happy with that? Yeah. How would you cut this? So let's talk about that. I'm going to cut it very simple. Okay. It's going to be straight pockets and flat. Okay. Two button front. Okay. No vents. Really? In the back. Well, you can carry it. Yeah. If you weren't the figure you without keep flattering you, I would have said that side vents in it. But I'd like to play. Great tailor has their way. I would like to make that without events in the back. Okay. And all the Duke's jackets were without vents, right? Yeah. Cuffs, as you call it, or turn ups. Okay. And four plates. Really? Okay. Yeah. It's a little full of trails, but it won't be. It won't be bad. Two plates on each side. Pointing towards the fly. Okay. Not pointing towards the pocket. That's what we call a reverse. And it's great. Okay. But it's you want an English suit and I was point forward. You're going to get pointed forward plates. Yeah. Well, let's do proper pleats then. We're going to use our own sleeve lining because we've got one that's been around for the year dot, but we've converted it into a little bit more color in it. Okay. So we're going to put and you can do it on that. Beautifully. The body will be lined in gray and the sleeves will have our sleeve lining. Great. I'm not going to muck about with fancy linings and all that. I would do that if you had a sports car. Maybe we talk into a burgundy or something. Just keep it. Absolutely. And you can wear it in 10 years time and it will be 20 years time. Yeah. Okay. Well, I think so that's the one what we do is so there's no slip up and I do that and that ain't going to go wrong. So that's what we're going for. I mean, it's a great classic piece that is truly foundational. And I think that whenever one's going bespoke, you know, the temptation is to go to the bright, the loud, the unusual. But inevitably, as you said, those are the things you grow tired of or that you might find falling out of fashion. But something like this, a nice solid. That'll keep you in good stead because it looks great. And this sounds a bit mean, which I'm not, but I'm a bit careful. If the trousers ever went on that, just change the button into a black ebony button. You've got a great blazer guy in there and you could get another 10 years out of it. Seems silly, but you know, it's what you do because the coat's great. And sometimes the trousers get shiny and you think I'm not going to wear that anymore. You know, done that many times. So, you know, it's keeping it traditional, isn't it? Well, I mean, again, I mean, if you're investing in proper bespoke tailoring, you expect that longevity. I agree. Right. And the durability. I think it's lovely to hand it on to your son. Yeah. You know, if it's a jacket that you're looking a little tired and he puts it on with jeans and. There you go. And it carries on for another 10 years. It's tradition, isn't it? And the Duke was incredible thrifty in terms of having things mended and brought back in for adjustments, right? I think it's their upbringing. You know, it's, you know, waste not, want not sort of thing. Yeah, I don't see anything wrong in that. Provided it's not gone too far. You know, when it's gone too far, then end of story. But you can't have too many patches, right? Never did. Honestly, repaired everything. He's very good wearer. He didn't. It wasn't heavy. And we repaired. I never patched anything ever. Interesting. I don't think you would have worn that. I think you liked lived in, but not, you know. Yeah, well, great. Well, that's exciting. That's what we're going to do. What we'll do is we'll get Terry to come up. OK. See what you end up with then. And then we'll do the set of measures. And we both can. We like to bounce off one on the other side. Yeah, I mean, your boards are right next to each other. And we get on great. I mean, you have to. If I love what I do, but if you don't get on with it, you know, forget it. Yeah, we get on. We argue. Not argue. We debate. Is that the word? Yeah. Banter. That's the word. I'm going to go write this down. Just make a little note, although I won't make a slip up. And I'll get Terry. So that was, I guess, a great recommendation from John of the Birdseye. Right. And so now we're going to do something slightly, I guess, more casual, like a separates, right? An odd jacket and a pair of trousers. Yeah, I think we need a nice tweed. That would be very nice. OK. And what you should really go is the house tweed. That would be lovely if you did that. It's just the case of really deciding which one you prefer to go with. OK. Whether it's the blue, which I'm sporting. It's a beautiful jacket. Tom Chamberlain's got the same one. It's a, I saw him wearing it the other day. So this is a, that's got a great hand too. Wow. It's lovely. Got 16 ounce, this or the house tweed. OK. I mean, you won't, obviously, you won't have it quilted. You just do a lot of shooting jackets quilted. Yeah, OK. But it's that one without the quilting, which is quite a bold check. Yeah. So talk to me a little bit about this, because this is a beautiful fabric and it's got a 16 ounce hand. It's a 16 ounce fabric. We had it made specially for us. So it's a house tweed. It's worked on a basket weave design. If you look at the design, it's a 1950s design, but we decided to sort of go with this design because we both, you know, I love it and John loves it. And we just thought we'd do it in a blue because normally they're always done in a brown or beige. And we just thought blue would be lovely. It's a beautiful blue color. I mean, I think that I probably would get a little more wear out of this than I would green. Yeah. I mean, as far as like matching with my complexion, what do you think? Well, I think the wonderful thing about blue is you can wear it anytime. OK. Yeah. If you're in town, you can wear it in the evening, go out for a meal. Yeah. The green one, it looks a little bit country. Yeah. So this one I could still wear in London as an odd jacket. Yeah. Right. Jacket or if you're caught somewhere a bit more formal, you can wear it or somewhere informal. It's a tweed at the end of the day. Great. And then what would you do with trousers? And if we did something like this? Well, it would be nice. Now, I think a flannel would be wonderful. OK. Trousers. It's just a case of, did you want to go with a traditional gray flannel or did you want to go like an RAF blue? Let's have a look at a couple. I don't know. I kind of defer. I mean, again, one of the things I love about a great tailor is their knowledge of fabric. And I think there's a role to be played in terms of kind of pushing a client maybe a little bit outside his lane. Yeah. We don't want you too traditional. It can get a little bit boring. Because I've got gray flannels already. You have, yeah. I mean, nothing. I mean, I've got. You've got to be careful. If it's too blue, it could look a bit boring. I mean, obviously, the gray is going to look really good with it. Yeah. That's why it's going to look very, very attractive with it. So what would be your, I mean, again, number one recommendation, but then keeping in mind kind of versatility. I was, yeah. I was thinking it would probably look nice to do something like that. It's a little bit out. Yeah. Thinking out of the box. You wear brown shoes with it very, very easy. I mean, just give you that nice casual look. Yeah. Why don't we do that? I mean, I've got gray flannel. So we've got that. And what weight is this? Because it's beautiful. Is that 13, 14 ounces? 13, 14 ounces. Yeah. So proper London. It's a nice flannel. Yeah, it's a nice fox's flannel. As you know, probably the best flannels you can buy. Well, I've had some lightweight flannel done a while back, and I think it probably was a mistake because with the flannel, you really want the weight of the cloth. Yeah. I've got a nine ounce flannel suit, but it's literally one day wear. Yeah. And it just doesn't have the body that you would associate with the hand of the cloth. You lose the creases out of it straight away. It's a bit like wearing a linen suit really. You can't keep the creases in it at all. Yeah. Well, this is beautiful. I think with a nice dark brown pair of shoes. I've got the shoes in mind. I've got a beautiful pair of dark brown pigskin cap toe oxfords that Dominic Casey made. That would look brilliant with this. Yeah, no, they look really, really nice. Okay. I think that's a brilliant recommendation. So we'll go with that? Yes. What a delight. Just find a nice fancy lining to put over it. How would you line it? I mean, well, let's talk a little bit about styling. How would you make for me? Obviously single breasted. Okay. So do you want to keep it nice and traditional English style? I think so. But talk to me a little bit about what you would have in mind. Well, I was thinking a slanted pocket rather than a straight pocket with a little ticket pocket out above. Okay. Single breasted lapel, obviously. Even one double breasted lapel. How do you feel on a button one jacket? Because I'm a bit of a button one lover. You know, going back to my Huntsman days, I actually loved the button one. I like the idea of a proper single button. Well, let's go with button one. I don't have anything like that. So it'd be an interesting addition to the wardrobe. No, it should be really nice. And we'll keep you a side vents. Okay. Slightly longer. With slanted pockets. Yeah. And a ticket pocket. Yeah. Sounds fun. We'll go with that? Yeah. Let's do it. For some lining. What sort of lining do you think you... You don't want anything fancy. Yeah, no, I mean, I would do something that just really kind of complements the fabric. Right. I mean, I prefer slightly more subdued linings. Nothing quite like that. No bright pink. No, we'll keep you away from that. A lining I absolutely love with a tweed is this shot lining. Okay. It's quite hard wearing. It looks quite dark. And it don't look too flashy. You don't want anything too bright, do you? No, I think something that's really... This looks lovely. What about like a navy or something on the darker side? William's favorite. I probably would go with something like this. I'll keep it nice. Yeah. Do you like the shot? The two-tone look? Yeah, I like the sheen. I mean, it gives it a little bit of flash. We'll go with that. So it's a little bit... Right, so it catches the eye a little bit. You can get it done on that side. But I think the nicer side is the darker side. It looks much nicer. And you would do one button, right? I love a one button. Yeah, okay. I wear one button all the time. Stitched on the edge as well, because you'd probably want to wear it in town, wouldn't you, sometimes. So if we swelled the edges, it could look a little bit country. Okay. Bit casual. Yeah. It looks very casual anyway, but... Yeah, I mean, with most of my time kind of either in Dallas, you know, or here in London, right? I mean, something that I can wear as an eye jacket in town also would certainly add to the versatility. Yeah, it would look fantastic. Yeah, okay. Well, brilliant. Oh, that's exciting. This is a... It's got a beautiful hand, wow. I mean, it's got a really nice hard finish, right? How would you describe this? I mean, it's... Well, this is what we call real tweed. It's not like the Shetland tweeds or anything like that, which are very, very soft or the Saxony finish. This is just what we call a real tweed. A real tweed, yeah. It's a hard-wearing tweed. Doesn't have cashmere in it. I mean, it's a proper country tweed, right? It's a proper... 16 ounce, perfect weight. Not too heavy, not too light. And it's going to be something hard-wearing that will last you a hell of a long time. Yeah. And also, it doesn't bag out. You know, the problem with the Shetlands, they tend to get a little bit stretchy and a little bit cardigan-y feel to it. Okay. Whereas this keeps its shape all the time. I mean, I've got one of these, which I actually made in my time in other days and my son wears it now. Really? And that goes back to the mid-90s. So, they just last forever. It's just, when we were looking for a tweed, we wanted something that was going to be hard-wearing, practical, and not too heavy. Yeah. And this, just to be honest with you, Sue, it's down to the ground. And I love the basket weave. That's... Yeah, it's lovely, isn't it? You know, a lot of the house tweeds are much more traditional. Yeah. Right? And this is a very beautiful, very versatile tweed that, as you said, could be worn in the city, could be worn in the country. That's something that could get a lot of use out of. We're looking at ways now to introduce another house tweed for next year. But I think we're not going to go on the big, bold lines. Because it seems to be this is the nicer way to go. Get much more use out of it. Yeah, I think so. That's, I think, a winning combination. So, what's next? Right. Now, I think it's time to get you measured up. Okay. Take all the details down. Yeah. Exciting. And go from there. All right. Do you want to come through so we can take some measurements now? Yeah. It's all right. Okay, this is Sumba Kumarasan. Nice to see you again. Who is our assistant. Nice to see you again, Toby. Okay. Who will be doing your trousers for measurements for you today. Yeah, are you going to do measurements first or are you going to do styling first? That's a good idea. Let's do styling. That's what we normally do. Why not? Right. Single-breasted. Yes. Button two. Four-button cuff. Working holes, obviously. Horn buttons. Okay. That's what we do. And they're two-hole. Okay. Rather than four. We like those. It's slightly different. Okay. And then inside pockets. I mean, when I started, you got one. Yeah. But I think most people would want two inside pockets. I don't really need more than just... Well, no, you can have exactly what you like. But would you... Do you use my iLook, Toby? This is a new addition to us. That's quite nice, actually. That ticket left-facing. You know, sometimes I use this to put my business cards in. Do you ever use the pen pocket? Not really. Then it cascades. More pockets in. It's not attached to the facing. So I like that. Two inside pockets and a ticket left-facing. On the... That's so one each side. You travel a lot. May I? Yeah. So I keep around here like that so you can see what... Right. I just wondered, you haven't got a whole... Sometimes we put a little tab and button so that you may want... You know, you're traveling. Is that necessary? It's not for me. If you go to a hotel and they press it, it could bruise the suit. So to him, that's great. No vents, plain back. And with the... So we're fine on that. Snow vents, most important. And the outside, we've got cross-jetted flaps. So we've got a flap on that. I like that. And this is going to be a proper two-button, not a three-row suit. No, two-button suit. Literally a straight old-fashioned... Although, you know, two-button's been around for years. But absolute classic. I'm going to go with cuffs, as you say, or turn-ups. And now our standard one and three quarters. That's the standard all around the west end. And I'd love to put... If I can explain, that's a reverse pleat where it points to the pocket. I'm going to put four in. And they all point towards the fly. So they're the reverse way round. But I'm putting a little show pleat in there, which is quite nice. It won't make it baggy. I love the straight side pockets. I'm not a great lover of slants. So we're going four pleats, normal. And then we'll go straight side pockets, personal. Hip pockets. When you come in, normally we're a one-hip pocket man. But would you like two? I'll take one. On the right side with a hole-in-button? Yes. I think we put a bone button on it. Finish it all off. It looks great. So normally where I keep my... We've got a new thing, which is not new. But with us, it's kind of new. Would you like a little strip of lining in the front of the trousers? I don't think it's necessary on a 13-ounce. But it's not a... You've got to try and pick up on that lining and the crease if you haven't pressed in a hotel. And I defy anybody to get them together. So it was just a suggestion. So that's cool. Zip fly or button, sir? Zip. Thank God for that. I'm having to patient through button flies. They don't sit so good. And then we're going to do an extension band, which is that. But I'm putting the old-fashioned hook and bar. OK. And I'd like to see a nice strap and buckle on the side. That's part of the act. Yeah. But cut for braces? High-waisted? Well, would you want... Yes, but not higher than that. Or would you like them higher than that? How would you do it? The Duke was not a brace person. OK. So I would cut them that high. OK. He didn't wear... I mean, uniforms, yeah, and full evening dress. His actual suits were the same as that, really. I wouldn't go... Unless... Would you like brace buttons inside in case? Yes. Yeah, I think that makes sense. So brace buttons inside first class. I think what we'll do as well, we'll put a V opening in the back. Put that little V opening. It looks nice, actually, whether you have it with buttons or not. I like that. Just not right down to the band. Just a little one at the top. OK. Looks really good. So that's good. Yeah, I think I've got everything. Lining, we're going with lining to match, i.e. gray. I've got the cloth. In fact, I've got the number down. That's fine. Do you have the striped sleeve lining? Yeah, I'm putting our striped sleeve lining, house sleeve lining. And what we'll do to make it nice as well, we'll put the striped sleeve lining in the band and we'll put gray curtains so that it looks like the jacket. I do that a lot. Sleeve lining gray, band lining curtains. It's the thing we put inside, so it's got relevance to the jacket. Looks really good. I'm not sure if that's got it. Yeah, in other words, see that? That's got dark underneath and that matches the coat. I'm going to put striped sleeve lining where that's blue and then I'm going to put the gray exact match that you've got in the body of the coat. It looks really nice. So it's kind of boom, boom, boom, boom. You know, it looks good. So that's great. So shall I measure? First, do the measurements. Can I take your tape instead of the old boy? No, I've got your special tape that you'll probably find a lot easier to see. See what I get. That's what you're using. That's what I see you using all the time. You mean that's what I normally measure with? No, this is a special customer. I think I ought to have a tape, I think, somewhere down the road. I'll put a mark on it for you. I'm not going to stick this in you, but I'm going to stick it in you. If I can have your coat done up, you want to stand so I can have you like so. And here we go. OK. Hopefully not too soft. OK. Thank you very much. Just to get it right, obviously. Here we go. Right. Do you know what the numbers are on the tape? I'd like two and three quarters, seven and three quarters, 17 and a half. That's a good length, 13. Let me just check that out. Bearing in mind we've got no vents in it, I don't want to get any longer. 30, so I'm with that spot on. I'm going to give you a cross W and a cross bottom if I may. I'm going a little different to this because I want to get it quite nice. I'd like six and three quarters cross W and cross B. I'd like seven and a half. Just drop your arms, Kirby, if you mind. Thank you, sir. Let's get rid of that. Pop that there. Right. I'm going to get you to hinge the arm. You've done this before, obviously. Point your fingers. That's it. Fantastic. Just like that, please. I'm going to come back, Siamba, if I may. I'd like 20 and a half, 31 and three quarters, please. Okay. I'm going to give you... Could you put this in a bracket for me? Okay. And just put right side, would you? 15. Good. Now then. And in that half back. Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay. That's good. Eight and a half net, please. And if you could put a bracket and then close the brackets for me, if you would. Five and seven eighths, 30 and a half. That's great. Let's just pop that around. It's heavy around there. Smashing. Now I'd like you to actually remove the coat. I can help you off. Thank you, Terry. Okay. Here we go. Just relax. Arms to your side. That's it. Natural. That's grand. I'd like 39 MOD, please. I must have said this millions of times. This is a coat waste. This is not your trouser waste. I've got eight seams to come out of here and I've got to make an allowance for it. 36, please. Legs together, please, Kirby. Thank you. Okay. Same thing here. Lots of seams to come off this. Your trouser measures are completely different to the coat. I'd like 41, please. Can you just stand slightly astride? Okay, here we go. And just put that lovely tie down there. Okay, right. I'd like 1 and 3 8 collar stand. Shoulders as SL minus. That's great. I'd like, side my arm, please. I'd like SRB and a nice little sway on the SRB with a sway on it. And I'm going to go with... Let's have you sideways on again. I'm going with medium to long back balance. Medium to long back balance. Just one more time around. Just let me have a look at you. Yeah, put hollow front shoulders, will you, for me, please. And that's about it for me. And now I'll take over and you do the trousers, Terry, don't you think? Soon with the trousers. No, I meant now, rather than you take your measures. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're okay with that? Yeah. I know it's yours, otherwise you'd turn me off. I can't. I'll pinch you. Is that something that a tailor really holds on to, is their tape measure? Oh, yeah. We have a nice sulk when somebody's taken our tape. We lose our temper, don't we? Just a little bit. I get very grumpy if my tape measure goes down. Oh, I borrowed it once and I thought I'd lost it. He nearly lynched me. So for the trouser height, you're going to stick to what we have here. You didn't want any higher. I've got 41 and a half. If I could ask you, please, just to hoist your trousers up as far as they'll go. And then just feet slightly apart, just for the inseam measure. 31 and a half. Tie up. Just pop your tie. That's great. Just so A doesn't ladder it and B gives a true reading. We're going with a strut and buckle seam. So, you know, we're close, but not crazy. 33 and a half. And then feet together, please. Got 39, not too tight. Like that. I think that's good. I'm 41. There's usually a two inch difference. That's pretty neat. 39, yeah? Yeah. Give me a... Yeah, get an indication. This is 20 knee. Are you happy with that width? Yeah, I think so. You're happy with that width, yeah? I mean, nothing too skinny, but... No. You're happy with the bottoms? What do you think, John? What are they? They're 18. I would have got 17 and a half. That's a trip. If you came in, forgive me, you know, years ago and all that bit. That was pretty well bang on. Now it's 15, 14 and three quarter. That 17 and a half is a lovely width, yeah. I will go with your recommendation. It's only, if I can explain on the tape without boring you, it's literally... Customers get worried. But when we talk about half an inch, oh my God. It's that much because it's on the double. It's a quarter of an inch on the double. That's all you're losing, but it'll just knock the heels in a bit. Yeah, thank you. There we go. You're welcome. You finished? I am. I'll take over or something. You do some work, come on. As you got your jacket off, we'll work a bit sort of backwards, but it doesn't matter, does it? Okay. What chest did you have, 38? 39 I had. I had a cut a little further. But it's MOD, it'll end up 38 and a half. Yeah, that's what I'm going to go. 38 and a half. I scaled back. It's just a different way, it's not a... And again, I know this is less than John's, but 35 and a half. Yeah, I've got 36, but I'll scale back half inch. I'm trying to save on cloths. No, I can't work that way. You'll end up 35. And 40 and a half. Same thing, 41. So that's the half an inch. Just need a couple of your pins. Oh, absolutely. Get a bill in for that, don't worry. This is where the measurements get a little bit different. Grab that up. This is from my old huntsman days, this. It just gives you the side depth. It works quite well. Nine and a half, 14, 20, seven and seven eighths. Okay. I think all the figuration... We got all the figuration that John's got, but can you just add wedge on the back and downright? You can do a downright on the... I was going to do that with you, but yeah, it's heavy downright. I'm going to put a wedge like yourself right through twice. Because you've got them forward bangs. Yeah, it's quite, yeah. You've got slight RB, haven't you? Yeah. And same as what John said, medium to long balance. Have you noticed, Amber, with the front of the trails, when Terry's done, just turn sideways when Terry's done. Lower than the front. Just a slow dip. I'd just bring them up a good quarter in the front, that is. Styling for the trail... We got all the trails and measurements, but styling for the trails is for the flannels. Are you going to be the same? Or are you going to be wearing a belt with the... Probably with the braces. So they'll be the same? Yeah. So braces, tabs. I would suggest you put a lining in the front of the trousers because it's flannel, it's a bit soft and it just stops them bagging out of the knees. Okay. Okay, right. Now, do you have any turn-ups on the other trails? Do you want to... I think turn-ups on flannels look nice, but can we go a little bit deeper? Just a two-inch turn-up rather than one and three quarters? Yeah, great. Really nice big turn-up. And also, can we go a bit wider on the legs or on the bottoms? We just bring it out to 18. We'll see how it looks at the fitting, just to give it a... I think really with a flannel, you should have four pleats. So it's the same way as what John's cutting you, but well, they will look a little bit different. They certainly will. And pockets, straight sides, which are always very nice. That's got jetted topside pockets. No, we're just going to put a straight side. I think straight sides look better with four pleats, don't they? And with casual trousers, do you like two hip pockets or are you happy with just the one pocket? I mean, traditionally, I would have two hip pockets, but what would you want? Well, I have two. You're happy with the two. Yeah. And do you want them both with hole and button, yeah? You know, it's a good question. I mean, if I were to do a button, I probably would just do it... I mean, the right pocket is the only one that's ever used. All right, so you just keep it... Which side would you want the button then? Right side? Right side. Okay, so it's right hole and button, left plain. You're having right hole and button. Was it always the other way? I'm not sure. With the Americans, it was the other way around. Bill folder on the left and plain on the right. No, I'm just saying, it's funny how things change over the years. It's funny. And I very rarely put my billfold in my back pocket. No, but it was always... We used to never... We never asked, did we? We used to... When it was an American gentleman... It's always on the left. Boom, boom, boom, like that. Yeah, it's not quite so much now. We always ask then, just to make sure. Okay, so we slip the jacket on. Sounds great. And how different are the measurements between the two? I mean, do you read each other's measurements? Not hardly anything, because he went 35 and a half, I went 36. But I scale back, whatever that means. And then with the chest, I had... And I put net and mod, M-O-D, which means a lot of things when I cut. It's just, they end up the same, basically. I've got 30, Terry, which is what that is. Yeah, I think it's fine, isn't it? You don't want it any longer, do you? I wouldn't have thought... I was going to... No, I wasn't. I was going to make it a tad shorter with no vents, but I don't... No, 30 is cool. Look a little bit... I think that's nice. Okay. I mean, balance is going to take up quite a bit anyway. Yeah, you're putting longer back balance on, aren't you? You can't go too long, can you? No, no, that coat's great. But I mean, in theory, looking at the figure without the coat on, that needs plenty of length, exactly. And then I'm going to put a wedge through there and more like silk, you know. Okay, right. Sorry, it's just all technical. You've got a problem with blades, did you? Yes. I don't know if you've got... Eight and three quarters, 16. Yeah, let's keep it the same, 30. I think that's nice. A lovely length, 30, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's good, yeah. Kind of all-round thing. How does this feel across? Are you happy with the width across the back? You don't have to tell me that's bothered me. It's not bothered you? Maybe it's a little. It looks okay. I'm just wondering whether you liked more room or less room. I wear my skin tight, so there's absolutely no movement whatsoever. Eight and a half. Could you bend your arm? 19 and three quarters, 31 and a half. We cut different sleeves, so that might wonder why he's taken an elbow and stuff. We cut a slightly different sleeve, so it kind of pivots a bit different. I've got five and seven eighths, though. What have you got? Here. Well, I've got five and seven eighths, but I'm wondering whether it comes in. I think that's right. Six is too wide. Yeah, I was going to bring in a five and three quarters. Maybe in the fitting. By the time it goes, it's finished. It's the way that sleeve is sewn in. A five and three quarters is just as... Five and three quarters. I mean, it's nothing, is it? Splitting hairs, isn't it, really? 31 just for the fittings, probably a touch too long. Terry, can you take a cuff measure? Because I didn't. That's a nice, neat cuff, but not too tight. Just to give us an indication, why not? What are we, 11? 11 and a half. That's fine. We can always scale that down. Go with that. Now, cross waist, but can you put DB? DB 21 and a quarter. Yeah, that would make sense. Well, I think we've got everything else. Do you want to take trousers measurements? Yeah, OK. Yeah, very sloping, aren't you? Like mine, really, shoulders. Yeah, left shoulder, really. Or is it the right? The right one. Right, yeah. Yeah, you haven't broke it or anything, have you? Yeah, I had a rotator cuff surgery here. Oh, that's what it is, yeah. John's got that, and it's where he drops his wallet once. Can you hear this? Charming, isn't it? Charming. Someone in Florence fell out. I'm just going to check this sleeve, because see if there is a difference. It's slightly, I made it, yeah, exactly. We got a fitting, obviously. If we were straight finishing, we'd take a lot more measures. But we're having fittings, there's a lot more. When we straight finish, there's a lot more front balance and everything. But it's silly, because we've got fitting. So you can get too clever by getting too many measures as well. Will you draft a paper pattern first before you cut the fabric? Oh, yeah, that's what we always do. Everybody has their own pattern. John will cut his, and I'll cut mine, and I'll put John's correct. Can you tear it up and say, do not use, you know, that kind of thing. And then if I sneak out, if I go for a fit, and he'll go to mine, and he'll mark it out of 10. When he goes out, I put one out of 10, must try harder, in pencil, and then he rubs it out. I wouldn't do that to his pattern. Thank you, dear boy. Brilliant, so that's it. Thanks very much. We've got everything we need. What I'll do is, before you go, if you don't mind, can I have the address of your tailor? And I'm going to ask him a few things. But a lot of the final kind of adjustments, I mean, in the bespoke process, really is honed in during the fittings. Oh, good. The first fitting is very important for us. I mean, it would look awful for you, because it normally is quite a bit of a mess. But for us, it is so important. And the second fitting is the one where you're going to start seeing it, once the lapels go on it, and the lining goes in. It comes together then. And be asked questions. No, you don't ask questions, do you? No, we will suggest. But at the end of the day, it's no good us saying, oh, I think you need a five-inch lapel on that double breast. I don't want that. I want four and a quarter, or whatever. So, you know. I think there's a certain hazard in micromanaging your tailor. I mean, you know, you guys have been at this your entire lives. It's got to, isn't it? Well, you know, it's a little bit of a give and take. And you've got to get that to there, basically. But there's lots of things you like that we might not like. But I think, you know, allowing your tailor's kind of artistic instincts to kind of manifest in the garment is... Yeah, yeah. But little details, like the lapel, which you just made. And also, you know, not being disrespectful to certain people, but if we walked into a room and there was a beautiful painting on the wall, and there's five of us. And I say, isn't that a lovely painting? And you might say, I don't like the frame. And then, that string should be wire. It's nice that it's one-to-one. You know, you've got three or four people coming in a fitting room, which we have had. You can't pin it down, can you, really? So, it's going to be what you want. And hopefully, I'm happy with the fit and Terry, as well. You know, and Saumba. Well, that's the personal relationship one. Yeah, absolutely. And it gets better. It is. As it ages. You know, there's some great ready-made suits. But it's, yes, sir, can I turn the sleeves up? Bye-bye. We hope to see you for many moons. This is exciting. I can't wait to see this take shape. And I guess we'll come back and film a little bit of the making. Yeah, it'll be great fun to see you, always. Truly. Well, gentlemen. Thanks very much. Terry. Wonderful seeing you. John. Thank you for everything. Wow. Wasn't that incredible? I mean, to be able to be measured up not just by one legendary tailor, but two. What a pinnacle moment. I mean, Terry Haste and John Kent. These are tailors not with years, but decades of experience doing some of the finest work to come out of London. I couldn't be more excited to see the suits that they're putting together for me. And each with their own individual manifestations of their own attention to details. I am so excited. So I can't wait to see these garments come together. Of course, I'm Kirby Allison. And I love to help the well-dressed acquire and care for their wardrobes while exploring the world of quality, craftsmanship, and tradition. Thanks for joining me.