Why won't the Tories stop flogging Brexit? | The News Agents

The Conservatives would roll back any moves that Andy Burnham, that Labour, make. You know, if Andy Burnham really thinks that the key to economic growth is us having a more formal relationship with the EU via a customs union, then he said it won't happen this side of a general election. Yeah, but we're always saying, where's your courage? You're in power, you've got 400 seats, where's your courage? Do we want to put ourselves back where we are playing by the same rules that Europe is, and we don't enjoy the advantages of being outside the EU. The News Agents podcast is brought to you by HSBC UK, opening up a world of opportunity. This is a global production. Sticking with the status quo is not good enough for Britain. Worse, it would be a major dereliction of duty to turn away. We need to take a calm, clear-eyed, rational look at the world as it is today to consider what is best for our country. Our immediate priority is securing a successful outcome at the summit and I believe we should then set up a serious dialogue about the different options for our relationship in the long term. At every stage the British public will be the boss and I am clear that public opinion currently supports a pragmatic approach like the one I am suggesting. That is Labour saying the status quo is not good enough as they run towards the EU debate. A debate the Tories are shutting down. Yes, they're saying just leave this as it is. Is Kemi Badenoch backing the right horse on this? We'll be speaking to her closest adviser welcome to the news agents the news agents it's john it's madeleine and the house of commons is back after the summer pause the party conferences and all the rest of it and i wouldn't have bet when andy burnham took over that the first thing that we'd be hearing a statement on would be kind of brexit where we are now whether it's time to go back into the European Union but broadly speaking the Brexit debate is alive and kicking 10 years after Britain left the European Union and Andy Burnham is very consciously promoting this debate thinking that Britain could do better than what it's currently got in its relationship with the EU and seems very keen that this debate should happen even though everyone will know the perils involved in all of it On the Tory benches, it's, can we just leave this alone, please? This has caused enough pain, division, heartache, bitterness, anger and division in British society over the past 10 years. Haven't we got to a place where we can just let this be? And that seems to be, broadly speaking, the dividing line between the two main parties in the Commons over this. I think that's right. I mean, I think that Andy Burnham will quickly discover the voices in his own party also saying, can you just let it be? I was talking to Morris Glasman, who's, you know, famously blue Labour, very pro-Brexit, very sort of anti-immigration the weekend. And he was saying, again, a foolish move that Andy Burnham's doing, sort of trying to to to overrule, you know, what feels like the voice of the British people. And I was also chairing a panel with the deputy leader of the Conservative Party, Alex Bertrand, and he made pretty clear to me that the Conservatives would roll back any moves that Andy Burnham, that Labour, make. And I do think that's a really interesting sort of clearing of the waters now between Labour and the Tories or between, you know, let's say the prime minister and those in opposition, because I was talking to a very senior conservative who said to me they were really surprised when Starmer was in power that he hadn't taken this bold early step of rejoining the customs union. customs union doesn't need to kind of cross the line on freedom of movement and this senior Conservative said it would have boosted the economy within a couple of years so he could have done it you know straight out the traps in 2024 and then it would have put the Tories in this invidious position of saying well i i know you don't like reopening the Brexit debate but what are you going to do are you going to roll back on this are you going to be anti-customs union are you going to make an enemy of the business community for the sake of your kind of red wall seats red wall MPs who pretty much don't exist anymore and i think that's the place that we have got to now we can see the shape of who Kemi Badenoch is trying to attract and the people that she's trying to attract if a conference speech is anything to go by are the sort of pretty southern pretty prosperous. I mean, there's this phrase that's doing the rounds now, which is Waitrose woman. You know, you don't have to be a millionaire, but it helps. The people of the South, maybe the prosperous Lib Dems, maybe the people who don't really like where Labour sits on tax anymore, but wanted to give Keir Starmer a chance. And into that, there are a lot of Remainers. So this idea that Kemi Badenoch, who, according to the polls out today, now is sitting, you know, in second place with her party behind Labour, but above Reform. Why is she choosing to make this such a sticking point? Does she really believe the democratic mandate of Brexit is more important than a recouping, if you like, of the economic losses that it has cost us so far? Well, let me make two observations on that. The first is I spent my weekend talking to the dog and you spent the weekend talking to all these bloody senior Tories. What is the dog's perspective on Brexit? it? Alfie is kind of confused about it. I mean, I think he's confused about life generally at the moment. But Alfie thinks, well, you know, I don't really know who's going to feed me next. That's broadly speaking, I have to say the jabs are much cheaper in France. So anyway, leaving that point aside, I do think it's kind of interesting the place that the Tories have got to now, which is just leave it. The problem for Labour, of course, is that they had a manifesto commitment that they would not go into a customs union that that was one of the red lines and when Keir Starmer was trying to kind of win an election in 2024 he was trying to neutralize as much as possible the whole Brexit debate because he wanted to win back those red wall seats which the Tories had so successfully taken in 2019 in Boris Johnson's you know when he was in his pomp and saying we've got to get Brexit done and I think that you know Starmer understandably thought there's no way we can go into a customs union yet i think there are big issues for Labour about this and it's kind of you know and it's a trade-off isn't it there are so many different trade-offs i mean there's the political trade-off that there'll be certain MPs who are in the inner cities in London in Manchester where people will be really supportive of the idea of us going back into uh some kind of form more formal arrangement with the European Union there'll be the red wall seats which voted decisively for Boris where Labour MPs were thinking oh well well well steady we don't want to reopen uh this debate and then there are the economic trade-offs of the freedom we've got for example say on AI where we're in a much better position than the European Union do we want to put ourselves back where we are playing by the same rules that Europe is and we don't enjoy the advantages of being outside the EU or do i mean you know Scottish whiskey industry that they get a carve out on Trump's tariffs as a gift from Donald Trump uh when the king went over but these are tiny you know we are talking about a market of Scottish Whisky Association yeah but in terms of you know what you're weighing up when you talk about trade-offs one is a massive trading organization of 500 million people and the other is god bless them the Scottish Whisky Association i'm sure we will be hearing from them shortly but did you notice how much nicer i've been to the Scottish Whisky Association and how much more concerned i am i did i got that in your voice but i think it is i mean even distillers you know distillers all over the country will be saying genuinely get the get the imports and exports market sorted and we will all be happier it's better to have a you know it's better to have an opt-out with america as opposed to nothing with america but it's definitely better to have the whole of the eu market that can trade readily that's that's hitting us i mean i was reading the OBR forecast of around 15 percent in terms of exports and imports you know you heard Helen Miller on the show yesterday if you were listening from the IFS saying whatever is going on in Europe to not have the ability to trade properly with your partners is is much more difficult for us right it's it's pretty simple yes look there would be enormous steps towards doing this and you know it's not going to happen before a general election which is again part of the speculation about why a general election may come sooner rather than later uh because you know if Andy Burnham really thinks that the key to economic growth is us having a more formal relationship with the eu via a customs union then he said it won't happen this side of a general election well i don't think that means necessarily that election will be quicker i mean i i definitely feel the kind of the sagginess of spirit that maybe people all over the country are feeling when you think in real terms about actually reopening up the debate and kind of going oh do we want norway do we want canada too do we want plus plus nor plus this do we want the indicative vote so you know everyone's soul starts to feel a little bit yellow and curled up at the edges when you imagine going back into those sorts of debates and i don't think anyone wants a referendum but i mean it was Sadiq Khan who first suggested to us on this show that you would just make the next election um essentially a referendum on do you want to join the customs union right and it doesn't mean that it has to be now it means that you have to check on how the country's feeling check on how the european leaders are feeling check on what's happening after presumably the european elections themselves which could change the whole feel and shape of the eu and then you say right if you if you if you want to come into the customs union Vote Labour. That's what we're offering. But to use a kind of very dated yes minister word, that would be incredibly bold on Andy Burnham's part to say, I'm going to make this arrest. Would it? Well, I tell you why I think it would be a huge issue. I think that what opinion polling in this country has shown is two things. One is that the British people think that Brexit has left them worse off and hasn't worked according to the prospectus as outlined by Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage. That's number one. And number two is that, oh, God, no, let us let it be. We've made the decision. Exactly. Let's not reverse it. So don't have a big debate. Don't have, you know, 16,000 hours of debates about, you know, Norway 2. just say this is in our manifesto come with us or or don't but i think that you're going to have so many labour mps in the west midlands in the northwest in the northeast going to the chief whip and saying for god's sake no please don't have this in the manifesto this is what it's going to cost me my seat well even the customs union i'm not talking about full EU membership I'm saying look at Andy Burnham in Makerfield when he's standing in the by-election there he's saying this is something we don't want to touch and then he gets to number 10 Downing Street and he's saying yeah yeah let's touch it and I think that that is the kind of you know he when he was fighting a by-election he realised how important it was not to go anywhere near that yeah but we're always saying where's your courage you're in power you've got 400 seats where's your courage you know don't we want to see political courage at this point well political courage is all great but if it's going to cost you an election there'll be an awful lot of Labour strategists saying maybe it'd be more prudent to use another Yes Minister word to be a little more cautious i honestly don't know how this will go at the moment it feels like Andy Burnham is ready for the fight i'm just not sure it's a wise one well let's welcome in now John Glen who is probably one of the most important voices around Kemi Badenoch and has been in the cabinet with the Conservative Party for a long time and you're technically her PPS is that right john are you yes i'm one of them she's got myself and Jack Rankin so we share those responsibilities but I've been with her since July last year in this role yeah and you will probably be sort of putting up the bunting today because she's moved into second place in the poll or at least the Conservatives have as I don't know if you read anything in those or if you just think of it as a sort of soft Conservative bounce well of course the official line is we don't look at any polls but obviously I did notice it and it is encouraging I think it shows that, you know, what what the messages that she put out at conference have been heard, I would imagine. And and, you know, it's a meaningful move in the polls. But look, we're very clear. Each day is a new day. We've got to rebuild trust, work hard. And this is a long journey and we're not taking anything for granted, but it is encouraging. It is encouraging. The conference you just had was Kemi, Kemi, Kemi. So do you think that that I mean, is that did that work? Are you saying it was right to put her right at the centre or do you think it was the economic message or do you think it was her words to reform voters? I mean, what do you think kind of, what do you think works? Look, what I would say is I became her PPS in July 25 and the mood, the atmosphere, the people there, it was a completely different conference. There was more unity. I met with the other PPS and said, have you met any discontented colleagues? and we couldn't find any. It probably wasn't that way last year. I think there is that sense of unity. I do acknowledge, though, that Kemi is at the centre of everything, but as she should be. I don't think in the run-up to the 1979 election people were particularly concerned who the various shadow ministers were. It was about Margaret Thatcher, and I think there is some echo of that. But she is a very strong leader. She has put together a very strong team, and we'll begin to see more and more of them. And she's very keen that that happens. And I think you saw Helen Waitley. She came up with a significant iteration on her proposals of savings on welfare, the shadow welfare secretary, and obviously a new shadow chancellor as well with some some bold policies. But, you know, Kemi, I think, made a brilliant speech. It's been commonly acknowledged that some of those passages in that speech, you know, that I found them personally very moving. I think she was speaking about, you know, her son and what she has to say to him. And I found that very compelling. And I imagine the poll reflects the reaction to that. You raise that. And, you know, I was kind of listening to that speech as well. It was incredibly powerful what she said about racism, how it mustn't be allowed to take hold in the way that it, you know, is taking hold. Yes. I mean, that was a very different Kemi Badenoch from one we've heard before, I think, in some ways. in that she really went for reform. And I wonder whether that was a conscious decision. I mean, you talk about the comparison to last year. Last year, you know, Jenrick was still around. Well, I mean, she talks quite openly about how we've removed the drama queens from the party, or in most cases, they chose to leave. And, you know, we are more united and we're clearer about where we're headed. and you know i think i don't think she made a conscious decision i think it was the culmination of all that she's been saying throughout the year i mean she had a piece in the Mail on Sunday several months ago where she was very clear that we wouldn't be doing a deal with Reform and her speech really made that unambiguous because i think some people she's obviously under pressure from some quarters sorry Emily to to sort of unite the right and that's something that you know she doesn't believe it i think the electoral pack is one thing but i think we heard much stronger language from her this time around and i remember it was either last year or the year before where she seemed to be going towards kind of culture war issues much more easily she was sort of talking about people from you know some people came from bad cultures and it felt more reform aligned can i say this year it was really stark it was basically i don't really like racists well i don't think most people in the country like racists and i think she was articulating what i think rank and file conservatives think about reform well about racism and it's not got a place in our shouldn't have a place in our our politics and um and she was objecting um strongly to comments suggesting that her mixed-race children wouldn't be considered British, and that is pretty offensive. But she was aiming that specifically at reform leaders. I mean, everyone can say, I don't like racism. That's not hard. Well, I mean, that's where some of this is coming from, from individuals within that party. I don't think she has a beef, and I don't, with many of the supporters of reform who have gone there because they've been frustrated with our failures in government, which we acknowledge. but um this was you know her also saying what what are her values who is she what sort of leader what drives her and i think we saw a lot of that and does she i mean was that you saying i think you have to give a bit more of your your sort of interior you know monologue look i i give my advice to her privately um she has very strong instincts and she has a i believe a very solid committed team around her and we collectively advise her when when she asks for it needs it but she's the leader and i can tell you you know she she gripped that speech and you know it was her speech and and very much she the passion came through john let me let me say i listen i listen very closely to the speech and i thought as i was listening to it that if i was a voter in and around Salisbury in Wiltshire where you have your constituency i have 32 new members join up within 24 hours of this okay well i can imagine that the people of salisbury would like it i would imagine the people of the home counties would like that speech it was you know the things that she said on inheritance tax i can see would appeal to you know people who are well to do i think the messages on racism would have gone down very well and on anti-semitism too i they were all very notable but it felt like she was playing to the traditional tory heartland and no longer to the red wall that boris johnson created in 2019 i suppose my question is how do you win an election without the red wall well i i would dispute that i think if you look at the policy if you look at the policies that were set out across the shadow cabinet during the week you know there's a very clear focus on young people getting back into work we've got 175,000 young people more young people out of work than we had when we came into office and that means you know some specific interventions of getting people back to work new programs of of training for you know specifics in HGV and other trades where we need uh support also you know plan two loans making adjustments to those making changes to benefits working age benefits to pay for some of these interventions and you know doing conservative things with those with those savings so i don't accept that i mean i think the the truth is that the Conservative party you know will always need to have and will have a resonance across all social classes and i recognize the interpretation that some of the media have put on on her remarks but there wasn't a conscious decision to go for one part of the electorate but we are relevant to all and at different times different emphases will come i mean you don't think that that was a kind of move right okay we're not going to win the red wall seats Farage is too far ahead there but these Liberal Democrat seats in what was our once our homeland are very if we show that we're a sane you know listening to the people kind of conservative party then we can win those back well of course in the south all those seats um mine is actually Labour is in second place, but many seats in the vicinity are obviously Lib Dem held or Lib Dem in second place. And of course, some messages and those messages that she spoke about and were most picked up in her speech will resonate very strongly. But, you know, our big message at the moment is on the economy. We have a new prime minister who seems reluctant to take binding decisions on welfare, on defence, things that would move the economy and um that message is is relevant to all parts of the country because actually young people not being able to get jobs get training and have the opportunity to move forward in their life fulfill the aspirations that they have is important removing stamp duty for people paying their foot on you know to encourage people to take their first home this makes Emily's point that you've moved away from culture wars you're back onto solid Tory territory we can't the economy we can't we can't do everything simultaneously John, what we can do is you know at different times make speeches with different emphases and i recognize that what you're saying is going to resonate it's true it's going to resonate more strongly with some than others at a different time just before you came in John we were talking about i was talking about a senior Tory that i was um chatting this morning who said that they were very surprised yeah good take it from me yes i accept that they've had quite a lot of skin in the game okay um who said they were very surprised that Keir Starmer hadn't gone for the custom union in his first two years because actually um it would have you know really sort of projectile forced the economy to kind of start and it would have trapped the Tories in a place where they had to say well are you gonna undo this or are you gonna go along with it if you really want affluent votes if you really want Lib Dems if you really want you know to look at your southern basin and and if you want to move the economic movers that leave us isn't it weird that as a party you're so happy to say anything um that Labour does towards the EU we will undo i mean i was talking to Alex Burcot the weekend and he was like yep that's it well look i i think the reason Keir Starmer didn't do anything is because it was in his manifesto that you know not joining, the rejoining the EU single market or customs union and I have it here was he describes those questions as arguments of the past so it was quite clear why he wasn't prepared to do that and I checked mindful that you'd be asking about this you know we spent 536 hours in the House of Commons and that's an hour and a half of every sitting day over two years discussing Brexit now as you were very aware I'm sure that You know, I voted remain, but I lost. Three and a half years later of wrangling over what sort of Brexit did we want, we signed the withdrawal agreement. But is that reason enough, John? Let me just play you. This is Kemi Badenoch. I think she's doing an interview with the London journalist. And it's just a really interesting kind of window into exactly what you're talking about now. Do you think Brexit has been good for London? They are not interested in having a row, which we had 10 years ago. The Conservative Party is moving forward. The country voted. The country voted, as did many people in London as well. But do you think Brexit has been good for London? I don't think Labour has been good for London. And the people of London will be voting, whether it's Conservatives or Labour, not on Brexit. I totally hear you on wasted man hours or work hours, whatever. But that's just not enough of a reason, is it, to carry on? I mean, don't we believe in damage limitation at some point? Look, we had a general election less than two and a half years ago. The Labour Party won that election on a manifesto. The Prime Minister seems to be making lots of random assertions of his aspirations or visions for lots of areas of policy without any mandate or manifesto behind it. Now, I think he just about yesterday admitted that he wasn't going to take us back into the EU without a referendum after a general election. And of course, if that is what materialises in his manifesto, then that will be the time to discuss it. What I'm interested in is what he's actually going to do now to deal with the struggling economy and many of the challenges we face, the enormous challenges in our public finances. But I'm just saying that's not a no, right? It's not a no from you. No from me to what? To something that takes the Conservatives on a path closer to the EU, if that is the direction. I don't want another referendum. My view is that, you know, look at what the IMF have come out today, projected growth for next year. We've got a higher projected growth, admittedly, by just 0.1% than France, Germany and Italy. This notion that somehow moving back into the EU is going to transform us overnight. There are significant challenges facing this country today and the government needs to be addressing them. I think this is a distraction. It will get certain parts of the country excited because they've never been reconciled to it. I reconciled myself to the fact that, you know, I'd lost. I was on the losing side. And we move forward with Brexit. That doesn't mean I've been in a constant state of hostility to all our trading partners and friends. And indeed, through the G7, the G20, and through NATO and other fora internationally, we do cooperate with our friends and neighbours in other countries. But I do accept that for some people, they've never been reconciled to it. And he's trying to tap into that sentiment. What's less clear is what sort of deal we're going to get. And I think that's the key point. He seems to set out all the things that he'd like to do. but it was interesting listening to the um the the German uh mayor yes last week you know he was very encouraging of more conversations and us coming back in but you know then he sort of rather interestingly said well you know we'll just have to discuss what terms it will mean and i think the point is there's not going to be a set of concessions that are going to be all positive one way and you know it's unrealistic to think that um so you know let's be honest if we're going to make some of those concessions there will be a cost and that is the opposition is a perfectly perfectly reasonable thing for us to hold them to account to given their manifesto you you've just cited the latest figures on projected growth for the UK economy and that we will be second best in the G7, well equal second oh in the G7 yes yeah um so So what you're saying is congratulations to this government on its handling of the economy? No, no, what I'm saying is we're marginally ahead of the EU. The notion that somehow moving the EU moves us into a super league of economic performance is for the birds. Oh, come on. But the argument is simple, isn't it? If we were able to trade more freely with the European Union, that would be absolutely fantastic for British exporters. but there are also a counter argument which is quite clear is that we have now freedoms to have trade deals and other arrangements with other countries that gives us a transformation opportunity and I represented the financial services industry for four and a half years and they were in quite a different position in many elements of it but just to have a 500 million I mean look Europe may have slow growth but it's still a bloody enormous market where kind of 50% of our exports go to and if we can make it easier to trade why would anyone say oh no let's not discuss it well i think it's far from clear that is the solution that is being offered and um look as i say it's all somewhat speculative we'll see what goes into the Labour manifesto and obviously we will have our manifesto and that'll be the time to um discuss it but at the moment this Labour government doesn't have a mandate to do the things that you're suggesting so it's somewhat hypothetical and of rather more important issues need to be addressed does the phrase waitress woman mean anything to you well it's not it's not come from me or anyone in the Conservative Party I don't know where it's come from I mean you have a waitress in Salisbury yes of course we do well I mean you know I know the demographic I'd go there but I go to Tesco's and Lidl as well I mean you know the point is it's all the supermarkets where we are that was such a That was such a politician's answer. It's true. During COVID, I went to Lidl to work out how little I could survive on. It was an exercise in self-restraint and it worked quite well. So go on. Okay, but what I'm trying to ask is whether the phrase Waitrose woman sort of opens this new world of... Well, I don't recognise it. As I say, it's not a phrase that we have been briefing out or has been, you know, on the tip of the tongue of anyone I've seen in Kemi's team. Bottom line is, you know, we want to project. Who were your 32 Salisbury voters? I don't know. I haven't noticed. Just one of my team said we've had 32 new members. So I'm delighted about that. Obviously, numbers have gone up and down. But you wouldn't object to having Waitrose Woman? Of course not. But I wouldn't object to, you know, I want my party, as you'd expect, to do better in the polls and to win the next general election. And that's why I'm supporting Kemi in whatever way I can. And just one other thought is, I mean, Kemi seems to be running way ahead of your party as a brand. Is there a problem with the concept? I don't know that that's true. I mean, if you look at the numbers, she's still on, just to be fair, she's still on, I think, minus 16. She's still a negative compared to Burnham, isn't she? Well, I mean, I don't know if that means anything. I haven't looked at the figures recently. All I would say is that she's a fantastic leader. I love working for her. It's one of my most rewarding jobs in politics in 16 years. and I look forward to continuing to do that thank you so much now time to thank our partner HSBC UK so what actually makes a bank account Premier well an HSBC Premier account gives you exclusive access to plenty of perks that make you feel extra special including offers and rewards across travel dining shopping and experiences that sounds great but I'm particularly intrigued by the experiences bit yeah through Premier Lifestyle customers can now enjoy priority access and exclusive ticket allocations for major music tours sports events and theater productions nice so it's not just about what your bank account does for your money it's about the extras it can do for you too exactly everything's Premier when your bank account is search HSBC Premier at HSBC UK, you're backed by the Current Account Switch Guarantee. Well, I understand they're looking at it very carefully. I've always found her to be totally crooked personally, but that has nothing to do with me. I think she's a terrible person, just a complainer. She comes from a country that is a non-country, and then she comes over here and she complains about our Constitution. I think she's a terrible person, but that's really up to the DOJ. I have nothing to do with it. I have nothing to do with it wonder why Donald Trump felt it necessary to say he had nothing to do with it when no one had accused him of anything but we'll leave that and park that to one side for the moment but what he's talking about there is Congresswoman Ilhan Omar who has a seat in Minnesota and she has been variously described as one of the radical socialists in the Democratic Party but yesterday her home was raided by the Department of Justice by FBI officials acting on a search warrant her home in Washington DC on what grounds we don't know but let me just say it's three weeks out from the midterm elections and these things unless there is a matter of national emergency do not normally happen this close to an election yeah Fox News which as we know is pretty friendly with what's going on in Trump's government, have reported that the search on Omar's home pertains to what they're calling a criminal fraud investigation concerning her immigration paperwork. We do know that Ilhan Omar's father actually filled out the paperwork when Omar, who was born in Somalia, came to the US via Kenya, I think, was naturalized as a US citizen as a child. Now, call me a conspiracy theorist, but there is something of a pattern emerging here with the raid on Ilhan Omar's home, a Muslim congresswoman, as you say, from Minnesota. We have also seen the judicial attacks on Lisa Cook, a black woman, Federal Reserve Board of Governors, on Letitia James, the Attorney General of New York, a black woman, on Monica McIver, a black woman New Jersey congresswoman there is something about the Grand Wizard in Chief at this particular point of time where he just seems to be quite enjoying any judicial process which could somehow paint these women of color in a particularly seedy light just as he goes in as you say to the midterm elections and the Democrats have hit back pretty hard i mean i think it's fair to say they're not taking this lying down her colleagues have condemned the federal agents search as deeply disturbing and emblematic of the Trump administration's corrupt weaponization of the U.S. government i mean look Emily i think the wizard kind of comment is unworthy because Donald Trump would never wear a white hood it would muck up his hairstyle far too much and so that's never going to happen um it is remarkable and it is odd and it's Donald Trump's protest had nothing to do with me i mean outside the DOJ now the office on Pennsylvania Avenue on that eight-story building hanging from the roof down to the floor is a portrait of Donald Trump Trump, I mean the idea that the DOJ acts utterly independently of the president is just ridiculous and what this is about maybe is that in Minnesota there is a senate race coming up and that what you do is you kind of by making an arrest like this and a raid like that what you're doing is you are saying look, oh look at these wrong'uns look at these Democrats, they're all in the country illegally they're and you're firing up your base and that's what it's about, it's nothing to do with Ilhan Omar nothing to do with the paperwork about her naturalization or about how she came to be in the country, Donald Trump has long had an obsession with this woman and has talked about if you don't like it, go back home, it kind of the worst of the racist taunts that you could make, say you know you either fit in or f off, um that is Donald Trump's approach to Ilhan Omar, she is a naturalized American, a patriotic American, she just believes in different things to Donald Trump, I do think that's interesting though when you talk about firing up the base because essentially the whole point of being the base you know the base is the core support, your core voter support the base ought to already be fired up because those are the people that traditionally always come out for Trump, in other words the people that have followed him pretty much from 2016 if not before and on whose vote he can pretty much depend the question is really all the periphery of the base, the people who came out for Trump because they believed in his economic magic who came out for Trump because they liked the Republican Party as a whole who came out for Trump because they thought Biden was too old or the Democrats had lied about um you know his his sort of um his cognitive kind of connectivity with the world all those people are the people that trump should be chasing now not the base you know the base is the base he should really be going out after the people who he is now, according to the polls, losing in quite dramatic numbers because there are people who have been with Trump for three elections, for three cycles, and the midterms in between, who are now saying, it's just not adding up. Whatever he says, I'm looking at my bills, I'm looking at my receipts, I'm looking at how much it costs me to pay the mortgage or fill the car or fill up the shopping basket. That's where the holes are appearing. It's not to do with a congresswoman in Minnesota. Peter, unless, of course, the base itself is pissed off, unless the base itself is so pissed off about the cost of groceries, the cost of fuel, the war in Iran, the effects it's had on their daily kind of pocketbook expenses that they feel. And it was really interesting. I watched Donald Trump did a rally in Ohio last night, which, again, has become, you know, it always used to be a bellwether state. It's now become a very safe Republican state and it's now looking very, very precarious for the Republicans. And Fox were doing some vox pops of people who were queuing up. And one of the people who was queuing up for the Trump rally was so withering and damning about Donald Trump that Fox suddenly said, OK, we've got to go back to the studio now. Thank you very much. And they cut him off because he was just piling into Donald Trump. Now, that was someone turning up at a Trump rally who would have in years past been absolutely fervently loyal to Donald Trump. I think the problem is that the Trump base is starting to kind of, you know, become weak as well as a result of the economic policies that have not been delivered by him. Ohio is a really interesting place to watch because it has, you know, it has the holy trinity of races this time around. It has a governor's race. It has a very tight Senate race, which the Democrats are thinking they might be able to squeeze. And it has house races as well. And at that rally that you were talking about, there is a woman who breaks ranks with those around her and she screams out, release the Epstein files. It's not a line that goes down particularly well with Trump or indeed with some of his core supporters. And the crowd turns on her, actually turns on her and starts. I mean, we can show it to you here. It looks like they are sort of starting to beat her up a bit. And Trump sees what's going on, calls her a guy. I mean, go figure. and these are his words to her columbus should not be in columbus ohio paid protest he's a paid protest so they're all paid they get paid by the lefties in order to destroy our country they're scum but he's going back home to mom i mean the remarkable thing about that is well one it was a woman and two calling for the release of the epstein files i mean donald trump came to power in 2016, promising to drain the swamp, fuelled by a QAnon conspiracy that the Democrats were full of paedophiles and that Donald Trump would be the man to root them out. Donald Trump is in power and is not releasing the Epstein files. And is it any wonder that several women in audiences and around America are protesting and saying, what have you got to hide? He's been on quite a journey. I don't know if you remember that first televised presidential debate he ever did against Hillary Clinton, where he stuffed the front row of the audience with victims of victims, with women who had complained about the abusive behavior of Bill Clinton. I mean, you know, we can call them victims or survivors, women who had come forward to complain about him. And that was Trump's way of saying, right, you have essentially stayed married to a sex abuser, you know, to Hillary Clinton on the stage. You have enabled a sex abuser. And he portrayed himself in those early dog days of 2016 as the man who would save women. I mean, it seemed repellent then, but right now it seems off the charts. Look, it says what it does on the tin. If you're coming on the newsagents, there's a fair chance you're going to be talking about the news. If you're going on a podcast called the Cheeky Pint podcast, it may be that you're going to be expected to have a drink while you're in there doing the interview. Mark Zuckerberg clearly hadn't factored that into his calculations when he accepted the invitation to appear. We want you to watch this. If you're watching it, great. If you're listening to it, it's worth having a look at the video because Mark Zuckerberg looks like he's treating Guinness as mouthwash and he doesn't know quite what to do once he's finished. Just let's hear it and you'll see it as it goes. um i was actually talking about this at dinner yesterday my favorite thing is i have my muse uh whose name is Euler uh constantly source increasingly obscure teas from sort of swirls it round looks away looks like he's dying to spit it out but can't quite and doesn't really want to swallow it it looks like one of the challenges from I'm a Celebrity doesn't it i've got some wombats urine for you to drink now as part of the challenge are you happy and he just looks at this pint of guinness as if oh my god what has just entered my mouth what would be your worst drink on a on a cheeky pint podcast well if i'm in for a cheeky pint i'm up for it i mean cider i don't like cider it's too sweet is that the face you do if you have drinks on there okay that would actually that would go viral yeah okay we'll see you tomorrow bye for now bye bye the news agents podcast is brought to you by HSBC UK opening up a world of opportunity this has been a global production