USMNT fallout, Pulisic injury revealed and predicting World Cup quarterfinals

Welcome once again to the sports seriously soccer podcast I'm John Arnold or Lindsey is here and so too is Seth Bertelny now Seth We've been hearing from you all summer man But we haven't actually had you in the chat like we had at the very start of the World Cup So it's good to have you finally come back in for a full conversation with myself and Laurie today's episode. We're gonna put a bow I don't know if it's gonna be a pretty bow But we're gonna put a bow on the US men's national teams run in the World Cup what to make of the 2026 tournament What to look at as we head into the 2030 cycle. We'll also talk about some of the refereeing controversies Hopefully put a bow on the Balligan controversy and some of the other things that people are talking about It's FIFA corrupt. We'll get into that and we're gonna look ahead to the quarterfinals This World Cup is still ongoing even though none of the host nations are in it Those not in it, but there's still some beautiful beautiful games that we're gonna look forward to Seth let's start with you man. Welcome back. You're at every training every press conference You get a lot of interviews sit-downs and you were in beautiful, Irvine, California racking up those Bonvoy points What are you gonna remember from this World Cup? What's the lasting image for you of the 2026? Well, first of all, they were Hilton honors points that's where you and I are different my friends, yeah But yeah, I mean there Was a lot that I'm going to take away from this tournament from a US national team Perspective. I mean, I think we have to start with the positives, right? I mean they won three games which was as many a day as they had won in their previous three World Cups combined and Not only did they win those games, but they put together really impressive Performances in all of them and you can say oh, it was just Paraguay and Australia and in Bosnia Herzegovina But I don't think that argument really holds up We saw what Paraguay did for the rest of the tournament and when you look at the US in previous tournaments They had to struggle for wins against, you know in 2022. Their only win was against Iran They barely won that game So you can't just pooh-pooh those performances and those victories and they played some really great attacking soccer They had some breakout performances from the likes of Malik Tillman and Fuller and Balagan who really did it on the big stage They won three games had a World Cup for the first time ever all that stuff was Very positive and very memorable. And of course having said that I think When I look back on this tournament the thing that I'll probably remember the most were the last 48 hours Because they were just so catastrophic in every way Even before the game started with all the controversy around Balagan and then of course The game itself was just how much Groundset how much on the ground because Laurie and I were kind of as we did our rapid reaction We were saying like it just has to play a factor Laurie gave the perspective from the players Point of view of just like yes You do have these other things in your mind like you on the ground Obviously, you don't know can't get into the head of Christian. That's part of the problem Journalism is just impossible to get into someone's head and know exactly what they're thinking What was the impression that you had being close to the players being at the press conference where Mauricio Portasino kind of said? Oh, he was good Was that a factor how much did everything that was around that the noise influence the lack of a great performance in the round of 16? Yeah, like you said, it's one of those big unanswerable questions because of course we asked Pretty much every player and they all had a similar Answer, which was no, of course, of course this didn't affect us right like we just didn't play a good game Which they did it but in my Opinion, which I will never actually be able to prove for sure. I think it did impact them It's it's hard to imagine that they didn't see all the conversation around this game and It just the the vibes with the team were so off in that game. Just the way they came out There was just a lack of intensity Seemed like nobody wanted the ball. It seemed like they couldn't complete passes. I mean of course Belgium had a good game plan, but everything was off and When you look at the conversation around this team in the day leading up to the to the game It was just so toxic and negative and became an international incident And I don't see how that kind of thing doesn't affect the team in some way Or we talked about that incident We talked about the performance right after it happened right as the referee blew his final whistle and you know I hope people go back and watch that show I think we came away with something that really accurately reflected our feelings but feelings change I think hindsight is always 20 20 and as you've had a couple more days to sit cool head dissect Digest think about kind of where this World Cup was for the US men's national team. Where do you come away? How do you kind of grade this World Cup? And and what do you think 2026 was for US men's national team? Yeah I mean I agree with everything that Seth said is One of the reasons why I feel like it felt so disappointing and heartbreaking on Monday night was because of the way this team performed and I think that's what I keep coming back to is Exactly what you two are just saying which is like why was the performance the way it was? Yes, we understand and I mentioned this on the pod Monday after Monday night after the game Which is no doubt is there gonna be some sort of energy shift regardless if the players are They're just this right because you're preparing for three days Thinking that in my opinion the best player on your team for the world for the US men's team Well Balgan is not gonna play and then 24 hours before you get the word that you are So you're gonna have to adjust some things that you'd already prepared for Going into that Belgium game and just on an emotional level. There's just a shift whether it's excitement or what? Does that add another level of pressure? Regardless I think the way that this team had started those other games and come out and scored early And you just felt that garnered really the the attraction from so many new fans and viewership I think I still keep coming back now a couple days later to What was it? You had the home home field advantage in the sense that that place was rocking in Seattle You have a lot of momentum on your side you also even despite just saying that with like the energy shift you do get flow Baligan back and This looks like a team Unrecognizable that we had seen in the previous games of this world cup So I would be like you all wanting to understand that a little bit more and get better clarity on that in terms of You know in terms of grading. That's a tough one. I mean, I just I thought this team was Fun I've had so many players rose to the occasion and then as we said in the pod on Monday, too You got to give credit to Belgium. I mean they nearly lost the round of 32 game They clearly made some tough coaching decisions to sit doku to not play De Bruyne The cock who has been coming off the bench majority of this tournament. I mean, those are three Three incredible players that if you're a soccer fan, you know those names, right? so To me in a lot of ways with the conversation leading up to this tournament I know we were all hopeful for a quarterfinal Quarterfinal place in terms of maybe success of this tournament But I think overall with where the team is and how Belgium stepped up and played and sometimes it is just about matchups I think round of 16 feels somewhat fair in terms of The finish of this team obviously we want it to be much better than how that game went right In terms of the result, but overall Credit to the guys and also I just stand by just Disappointing in terms of the way that result had gone on Monday night I mean, I think we talked about it after the game and I've come back to this point where if the u.s loses like Mexico Fighting till the last second being down a goal. I think in Mexico there is this boom right now There's this feeling of immense pride in the national team Yes, of course, they'll be kind of autopsy that the u.s. Is doing the Canada's doing what went wrong? How can we fix it? But at the same time I think that there's this this hey we identify with that That was us and Mexico hadn't had that for a long time that relationship with the fan base Had been very broken and this World Cup I think really reignited that fan base the relationship between that fan base and the team and I think that's Gonna make my mark is the next manager from Mexico's job that much easier as he starts this new cycle We don't know who the u.s. Manager will be in this cycle, and I do think that like Me I'm in a weird place because I'm setters on the USB. Yes, we're giving analysis the u.s I've covered the u.s. For a long time, but I'm typically covering something else, but I'm still a journalist in soccer So I'm not putting on my u.s. Jersey. I'm not rah rah rah vamos United States so I sometimes experience matches in this weird space between journalists and American and journalist and fan where it's like I'm not covering this game I can actually cheer up a goal goes in but at the same time like I might see these guys in the mix zone in Two months, I don't want to be too. So I guess what I'm getting at is I had fun watching this match I actually think it was a fun World Cup That I would say is also something a little different than past World Cups. There've been great moments Obviously everyone enjoyed the Algeria goal in 2010. Everyone enjoyed Clint Dempsey's opener in Brazil You can go point to these moments But I think the level on the level of national unity which people were hoping for during this World Cup in a lot of ways Did come? Yeah, I agree completely with that John like and that's why I think we just continuously saw this team bring on new viewers new fans and then while Against Belgium you were expecting that right the same the same start and we just never got it was always felt like Chasing that game Which is that's where the heartbreak is because they had galvanized just the joy of the way the team was playing Throughout this term specifically the starts right because I think that that that first game especially in Paraguay It's so much. There's so many nerves for everyone in the US soccer Yeah unity because there's been this huge build-up of four years You just don't know how it's gonna feel you don't know how it's gonna go and then it's an early goal They steamroll a team that clearly was quite good at what they did the rest of the tournament. They frustrated France, right? This was not a bad Paraguay team the US steamrolled them and I think there's like something to pull from each game I think we're still wrestling with what do we pull from that Belgium game? That's kind of the lasting lesson that makes it so we're not having these same conversations in 23rd I'm gonna shift a little bit more negative or maybe not Let's see what how you guys feel because I want to talk about one of the other big conversations around this something kind of dominating a lot of headlines and that's What Christian Pulisic did or didn't do against Belgium I said now I can rest which drew some ire from some former players and Donovan had a lot to say About Christian Pulisic what his perception is about Pulisic in the soccer community Laurie, what's your take on this in some former your teammates us women's national team players coming out and speaking on Pulisic? Where do you kind of? What do you see from that? Why is that happening? Do you agree and and what do you make of Christian Pulisic's 2026 World Cup? I should add we have added context now that this morning There's reports in the athletic suffered a micro fracture against Belgium that required him to come out of that game So obviously I think there's a little bit more context for us Than perhaps some of our colleagues had to give their perspectives But Laura, what do you think? Where was Christian Pulisic's 2026 World Cup? Yeah, I mean I think to start with like the criticism I think you know This is professional sports and we expect that especially when you have the the biggest sporting event ever in the world With so many eyeballs on there. You're gonna it's just the unfortunate maybe fortunate part depending on how you want to look at it reality of professional sports people who have never seen a game before are gonna chime in and have something to say about it and say something about Specific players, I think the tough part about the Christian Pulisic aspect is and thank you for that context as well Because I do think that puts it in Perspective I think when you look at those first 45 minutes of this tournament you see the impact that this guy can have right? no doubt when he's on the field our team it is better for it and Especially when he is running at teams open space that is when he's electric very few I feel I can stop him But I would say overall and I'm not the first one to say this either We have seen Christian Pulisic at his best overall when he is much more of a complementary player maybe is the is the best way to say it right when there is a star player and he can play off of that that player or if he You know if the the player is attracting other other defenders then he has that more of that open space to run at teams And I think in with the national team that's not always the case right he is the go-to guy and When that has been the case we haven't seen him at his nearly at his best But I would also say too. It's an interesting. It's an interesting thing because You know, I don't know if that's partially to do with Like fans US soccer hyping him up as the main man But also he is the main guy when you say yes to The advertisements or the commercials and you're willing to say yes to that People expect you to back it up on the field as well. So I think that's the tough part that I look at is you're saying yes to one thing and then also when Sometimes it feels like okay. It's time to step up and not shy away from these big moments We haven't ever really seen that in these big moments from him when he is like looked upon as the big guy So from that I mean disappointed at the first 45 minutes Excellent, and you saw exactly what he can do and then obviously the injury Even when he came on against Turkey a helped change that momentum But I would say Average average, right? To show up in that moment before he got injured in Belgium to be like, here we go. Give me the ball give me the ball and somebody had to right and so and Yeah, so if that's where it's disappointing because I think in these moments when you see it from the best players They are stepping up they're creating for themselves when they need to or they're creating for others to To make things happen for your team and turn things around when they aren't going well Seth where did you make a ballistic? You were there watching? I think glory makes a lot of great points You know, it started awesome. It ended poorly. There was some stuff in the middle. What do we take as our end? What do we feel like is? I'm not trying to be a teacher here. What's the final grade? But I mean, well, you know This is this is supposed to be kind of our final thoughts like where do you put ballistics World Cup because I think Laura said He's kind of average, but he asked for the heat, right? He asked for the smoke by being in all these advertisements being a lot of ways the face of the team Maybe didn't ask for like to be the face of the team But like you certainly seem to relish the endorsement deals and being in this position where the World Cup is in your country. Look He's in ads with like guys who are still in the tournament, right? Like he's in ads with message. He's in ads with England stars He's in ads with France stars. He's not still there. Yeah, I mean Is this pointing I think because it seemed in a way like his entire career had been building toward this moment World Cup What's that on this show? He told us that yes, and my life is leading up to this. Yes World Cup on home soil 27 years old Right in the prime of his career the face of this team obviously as we mentioned one of the faces of this World Cup in general just with how Ubiquitous he's been in ads and stuff and You know aside from the first 45 minutes He just he didn't have it You know, I I wouldn't I don't want to downplay what he accomplished against Paraguay because I think in some ways that sort of Set the tone for their entire group stage He was electric. They Destroyed Paraguay in large part because of him and then they kind of were able to kick on to to beat Australia and and finish first in the group and I think one of the big questions That we may not be able to answer is how much that cap injury impacted him moving forward You know, he came in against Turkey and played really well. And so it seemed like he was back But the bottom line is the performances that he had against Bosnia and against Belgium were not up to standard and that is going to be really hard for him to take because those were the those were the biggest games and One point that I also just want to make is I think that there's a lot to criticize when it comes to his Performance on the field, but I think that any suggestion that he Pulled himself out of the game against Belgium because he just like didn't want that smoke and like or was it like Actually feeling the game and like wasn't maybe actually that injured Is just insane. I Didn't even I don't think I've heard that so that is insane Yeah, I mean it came from our US men's national team's all-time co-leading scorer Landon Donovan who went on his podcast and Said something to the effect of like if he still had his leg attached He should have been playing and if I was in that situation I would have slapped our team doctor in the face and told him that I would have stayed on the field I mean it honestly, it's just insane to make any kind of suggestion that he Wouldn't want to play in that game if he was able to play and so I feel like that stuff is just totally out of bounds We'll say we had landed on the show. We had Tim on the show and I asked them both Hey, how do you kind of view your position as a past player being a commentator? I think it was tough for them to keep those lines kind of where they like to keep them After this emotional exit, right and and I and I think you saw some of that I would have like if those are their feelings if those are the feelings when the head is cold I would have liked to hear that before the tournament. That's all I'm gonna say about about that I'm gonna make you guys go lightning round. We didn't actually have this planned viewer. So let's see how Seth and Lori hold up Mauricio Pochettino, should he be back? Yes or no and one sentence explaining why Lori? There seems to be great camaraderie between him and the players I think he was One of the big reasons why this team's operated and played the way they did especially in those first several matches So I'm hopeful That's a yes, yes Yes or no and why? I'm gonna say no because I think that we've seen time and time again that second cycle coaches don't really work out for this program and also, I feel like there has to be some kind of I don't know how to put it fall out from from the way that they performed against Belgium because that was just Horrific and embarrassing. I am. No, I don't think he wants that. I don't think he wants to be there All right Young star to watch in 2030 the one or two players who are gonna make this cycle pop set I'm gonna go with a couple Kevin Sullivan Mathis Albert Both of them are 17 and already making strides in the senior game And I think that you know This is a larger conversation, but a lot of the the faces and stars of this team in 2026 Are going to be like early 30s in the next World Cup, and I think we for the u.s. Is Progression and for their chances in four years, they're gonna need some of these younger stars that are teenagers now to really continue progressing and if those two can You know reach something resembling their potential They should be really important players for the u.s. National team for a decade or more I'm gonna take Alex Freeman who's on this team is pretty impactful He has the versatility to play in the center back role in the fullback role. He's in Europe now I think that's all very helpful. You got one more somebody you're you're putting all your hope in in 2030 going forward. Oh, I'm gonna go with Tillman and I have one other besides these two, but Tillman in the flow Balgan I know they're not maybe considered the youngest right 24 25, but I still expect those two players to be in this next cycle very much so and I I thought they were tremendous both of them in this World Cup. So For me personally, I'm just hopeful that they're continue on and continue to progress But then we go with Julian Hall from Red Bull and what he's done this first part of the Major League Soccer season You know, I had him actually it was just kind of like a real like I guess like Outsider maybe would like slip into this team just as like one of those players that you bring along to give experience especially on home soil but yeah, I'm hoping that he can use this second part of the Major League Soccer season same way he started and Hopefully we'll see him And that Jersey said and not finally, what'd you say not Poland? Poland and for him Albanian for his teammate dual national panic is back, baby. And finally, who are we done with? It's actually I think it was actually a little harder than it seems. I mean, it's that we could all pick Tim Rheem Love Tim Rheem. I'm not gonna make it to the next where he didn't even think he's gonna make it to this one Well, you want to jump in the fire set who you done with who's out? I mean, I think that there are probably a number of guys that were sort of on the fringes of this roster that didn't maybe play Too much in this World Cup that aren't gonna See a lot of opportunities moving forward. Um, I mean I'll go Matt freeze I think a lot of us were questioning whether he was really the right guy to start at this World Cup in the first place He to his credit. I think he did everything asked of him Up until that Belgium game, even though in some of the games that maybe wasn't that much asked of him but that that moment against Belgium was like everything that we feared and You know it really took them out of the game like they were only losing by goal at the time they had a little bit of momentum early in the second half and You know, there are a number of promising young goalkeepers In the pipeline that just wore it ready For 26, but I think for u.s. Soccer and the u.s. Men's national team You have to hope that one or two of them are ready to take over by 2030 Sending one into premature international retirement Laurie Okay. Well, this is one That I hope is not true because I love them Tyler Adams, but I exactly where I was going Yeah, I just curious because he's obviously battled with a number of injuries and there was questions a lot of the time, right? But I love I love him. I love what he brings to this team in terms of leadership and just as boys in the midfield so it's more of one of those fingers crossed that he's there that is he can stay healthy and robust and Make one more push a lot this cycle. Totally Tyler was my pick as well I mean, I think when he's on the field, he's been fantastic, but he has had trouble staying on the field miss Seth mentions I think like when you actually look back at these four-year cycles, it's very easy to say Oh this guy be in his early 30s will probably still be there and that doesn't really that's not really the case And a lot of these top national teams a lot of really successful national teams in theory You should want that right? You should want. Oh my gosh. We cannot leave a Julian Hall We cannot leave as out here goes that we cannot leave these top top young players that we have off of the roster They have surpassed this generation of players that are currently in their early 30s And maybe not still excelling in the same level maybe but whatever the cases things will change in four years That's what I'm trying to get at. Let's talk about this year to wrap things up Yes, u.s. Is out of the tournament So a team's left in this World Cup and it seems like we've got a great close to the tournament right now Let's jump ahead and just get into our Order finals to watch what are the matches of this final eight? I mean eight I guess we say that are we allowed to say we get that clear Jeff What are the final matches of the elite eight that you guys are most excited about Laura? What are you tuning in for in this final? Or this not final this Third to last round of games. Yeah, which is sad in itself as we all know yesterday, so That's actually helped Alleviate some of the pain after the men's team because there are so many funny memes about like what everybody's doing with their life on the first day with no games Which was not much But I would say I'm looking forward to all these I can't believe some of these matchups But since we had to choose one, I'm going with England versus Norway and mostly in the sense that obviously Norway was a dark horse for many people Holland as so many tuning in on most weekends with Manchester City knows what he's capable of And goodness gracious has he lived up to that building in this in this World Cup so far I think there was a lot of questions for me defensively for for Norway But I feel like they've also I mean beating Brazil, right? And the round of 16, so I think to me this has been a much more resolute Defensive Norway team than maybe I expected and they're gonna need that against England and Harry Kane. So The thing that I love about this matchup is the way that England won that game and Aztec had to come back the way that they in altitude right because there's a lot of talk the the weather and So, I think it's the Harry Kane early Holland show in this game But one thing I will say is I'm most curious about this quarterfinal in the sense and how does Norway handle? England in the sense that two of those goals Azteca were on counter-attacks So how do they set up to maybe not allow that and really force England to have to break them down? We'll see but that's kind of the biggest biggest question I have going into this game Yeah, what did we do with our rest days? I went to an England press conference where we heard from where? He like did not even say like hey, yeah, well, we know both teams. He was like, oh, yeah The battle between Kane and Holland will continue. He's like people will absolutely be debating which center forward is better He's like I have confidence in Harry Kane because he's our guy. I agree with you the Norway I actually thought they were gonna be very disappointing. I thought they wouldn't be the dark horse of this tournament That's my bad, but I will say they have not it was center backs not laid a forward like Harry Kane Yes, I can't wish you in Seth. What are you watching this round then? Well, it's funny my hot take before the tournament was that Argentina was Going to disappoint in their title defense and I've been so close to being right in the last two rounds And yet here they are in the quarterfinal against Switzerland I kind of feel like it's the Jesse Pinkman breaking bad me where it's like can't keep getting away with this and at some point I feel like they're not gonna be able to keep getting away with this They almost fell against Cape Verde. They almost fell against Egypt Both of which You know are not among the best, you know 1015 teams in this tournament and yet Argentina has this incredible mentality they obviously are winners and they also have you know, messy and That has been able to take them a long way. Of course in addition to their exceptional talent on the field as well, but Yeah, I'm gonna say in addition to paying off the referees set there. Tell me yes, of course. Yes, there's The conspiracy The the referees also made Egypt concede three goals in the last 20 minutes of that game you read my column Thank you, man. I did I did Yeah, the the Switzerland game is the one that I'm really gonna be kind of keyed in on to see if they can just keep Getting away with it because I feel like at some point They're gonna If they keep playing the way that they have like they're gonna go out and Switzerland has been a really solid team for this tournament and has managed to Get through and find a winning combination I'm curious to see if I'm on zombies gonna be fit Yeah, that's a good question. I have to go training here in a minute. That's gonna be key for them. But Yeah Argentina in their last two games has played probably two of the best three or four games in this tournament And so like let's see if it continues It's been unbelievable I will go with France Morocco I'm really excited to see of course Francis attack But I'm excited to see what Mohammed Awabi the Morocco manager does Because in 2022 the semi-final between these two teams when when Morocco made their magical run to the semis It was a first of all different manager But it's same team and and I think that they tried to kind of play with France and didn't bunker it didn't sit back And it was a good idea. It just didn't work. They didn't win the game. They didn't get through obviously, there's so many emotions in this game, especially for Morocco with the kind of links to France and a lot of players who have The background or maybe even grew up in France but I think it's so tempting to look at what part of why did it just be like It would do that and do it a little better because part of why frustrated a lot of friends You saw how we would have meant to kill in a map a to finally break through to score the goal You saw what they said after I mean, I think it is very tempting if you're Morocco to say we could do that Gustavo El Faro blueprint do it just a little better and maybe we're talking about being back in the World Cup semi-finals I'm excited to see the approach. But then again, I'm also just excited to watch this France attack You all know the names at this point and you know the names upset for tell me of Lori Lindsay and myself John Arnold We thank you for watching the sports series to soccer podcast. Obviously our last show on the US men's national team this summer One one little bit of intrigue that we have in our little planning document I forgot to get to the Golden Boots still very much hanging the balance You know messy up one goal on Holland on Mbappe. They're all playing in these quarterfinals Who lifts it at the end you lift the Golden Boots? Who wins the Golden Boot Laurie? Oh Messy that Hollett I'm going with you know messy as well. If I don't they won't let me back in Argentina training later today. That's But we really appreciate you watching the sports series and soccer podcast appreciate you sticking and hanging with us this summer We're not going anywhere because we are gonna break down the rest of this World Cup with a less US-centric look so stay with us with the quarterfinals and semifinals, of course Finally and you can find all of our written coverage and more videos over on the USA today sports section Hope we see you guys over there and we'll talk to you