The Search for Amelia Earhart with Bob Ballard

This is the Living History Podcast. Broadcasting live across the airwaves. Hello everyone. Welcome to a special bonus episode of Living History because there's something really exciting that I wanted to bring you. It's an interview with Bob Ballard. And you would know Bob Ballard as the man who discovered the Titanic, who discovered the wreck of the Bismarck from World War II, who discovered JFK's patrol boat from the Second World War, and a whole host of other historic shipwrecks. And Bob Ballard has turned his attention now to one of the greatest aviation mysteries of all time. What happened to Amelia Earhart? Amelia Earhart went missing during her flight in the Pacific in 1937. And ever since, people have wondered what happened to her. And Bob Ballard has spent a month recently in Kiribati in the Pacific looking for Amelia Earhart's aircraft. So he took some time out of his very busy schedule to sit down with me on the phone to have a chat about that expedition, and just what they discovered in their hunt for Amelia Earhart. So it was a wonderful conversation. Please enjoy this special episode of Living History on the search for Amelia Earhart. Bob, thank you so much for joining us. Well, thank you very much. I hope you'll enjoy the show when it comes on. I'm looking forward to seeing it. I should say to everyone that everything we're talking about is going to be documented in a new show, Expedition Amelia, which is premiering on Tuesday on the National Geographic channel here in Australia. That's October 22. So we're looking forward to seeing that show and revealing the story. Bob, let's start. Why is it that the story of Amelia Earhart still captivates us nearly a century after she went missing? Well, one, she was an amazing woman, way ahead of her time. A pioneer that my mother, my grandmother, many women I know looked up to as a great, great role model who showed the world that women can do anything. And so there was that. She was born in Kansas and I was born in Kansas, as was my mother and grandmother. So this is sort of a family thing. And it's been something that I've, it's been on my sonar screen for a long, long time. But I've been waiting for the opportunity to get in the game. And my research carried me to this area and it gave me a chance to begin the process, which there are multiple theories, as you know, as to where she finally met her end. One is that she landed on this island. It was Gardner Island at the time. It's now called Nicamarora. And that she perished on that island. And there's another competitive theory that when she missed Howland Island, where she was supposed to land and refuel, that she spent time going back and forth, back and forth, trying to find Howland Island until she ran out of gas and crashed and sank in the ocean. And there's actually a third theory that she landed on an island in the, named Mill Island, that was in the Marshall Islands, was occupied by the Japanese and that she was taken prisoner and died in a concentration camp. So obviously we weren't focusing on land in the concentration camp. So we've been focusing on these two theories, the crashed and sank around Howland and the other one was a landing on Nicamarora. And so we took on Nicamarora first because it was shallow enough for us to reach. Our present capabilities is 4,000 meters and we knew that we could conduct a thorough search around that island with our existing technology. Next year we go to 6,000 meters, which then makes it possible to take on Howland. So this is really the first in a series of expeditions that we're going to mount. We've been actually funded to be in this area for the next 10 years. So we're going to get it. And this was just a very challenging needle in the haystack. Very similar, the Howland search is very similar to the Malaysian airline search area. So it's very, very large area and very, very deep. And you know how challenging that has been. You're right when you say, Bob, this is the ultimate needle in a haystack search. I mean, this aircraft compared to something like the Titanic is going to be very, very small and could have been lost in a much larger area. What was it that prompted you to feel that you had enough evidence and enough information that you had a chance of finding the site of this crash? Well, as you're going to see in the special, they give an amazing history of all the facts surrounding it. And I've been following those facts and there's some very, very compelling facts that she landed on Gardiner Island. One is the radio transmissions that Pan American Airlines had a series of radio stations for tracking their planes and they tuned to her unique frequency. So once she was reported missing, all the radio stations that supported Pan Am's tracking system turned to her unique frequency. So no one else was on that frequency and they received her signal and they were able to triangulate and it triangulated onto Gardiner Island and it was not a moving object. So it was a signal coming from something that was not moving. So that was the first sort of massive piece of evidence. It also found a skeleton on the island and a British survey group in 1940, when the Brits were thinking of occupying the island, found a skeleton and actually said, this may be Amelia Earhart's remains. And around that site, they found evidence of personal items that were similar to the kinds of personal items she may have had. Shoe, locket, cosmetics, things that were of the same period and would have been something that she may have had. But then there was a young girl, you can go online yourself and type Bay's Notebook, Amelia Earhart, a young girl in Florida and she wasn't the only one that picked up the calls from her calling for help after she'd landed. So clearly that ruled out Howland Island and really gave great credence to Gardiner Island. And then what really did it for me was when I was called to the State Department and shown a picture taken by the British survey team of an object sticking out of the water that they had the CIA do an enhancement and the CIA said it was the landing gear of a Lockheed Electra. So it was that when they said, wait a minute, you have a picture of the landing gear. All right, I'm in because now the search area collapsed to a very small area. So that's what really got us there because we were doing a major program for the U.S. government, mapping America's exclusive economic zone. As you know, Australia has one of the huge economic zone as well. And so many nations around the country are mapping the area 200 nautical miles off their coast. Well, the United States has a lot of territorial trust islands. Howland is a U.S. trust, Baker's a trust, and then also American Samoa. So we were driving by the site. And so that's when National Geographic said, well, that, you know, we're ready to go. And so that's what really triggered it all. So talk us through, for those of us who aren't particularly technically minded, talk us through what a day at sea looked like during this hunt for Amelia Earhart's aircraft. Well, to begin with, it's a 24-hour day. Our ships work 24 hours a day. So I worked for 12 hours and our expedition leader, Alison Fundus, did the other 12. So we would do 12, she would do 12. We had six different teams with amazing technologies. We had drones that were flying all over the island. They could see underwater. We went all around the island looking down, taking thousands of pictures that could penetrate down to 20, 25 meters. We had autonomous vehicles that could get even right into the surf zone with cameras and sonar systems. We had undersea robots. We had everything you could bring to bear, including teams on shore with forensic dogs, excavating more at the site. And so a typical day went on constantly with vehicles in the water, drones in the sky, divers in the water. And we went on and on and on, doing a massive search off the area where the landing gear was thought to be. Well, the big question is, what did you discover during all this activity? We discovered that the plane wasn't there. I mean, we did 100% coverage in the primary area. Now, what does that mean? Well, we were able to rule that part of the theory out, but there's also the fact that they may have been somewhere else off the island. So as far as we're concerned, we're waiting to see what the forensic data comes when they do the DNA analysis of the sediments on the island. If they can prove, the land team can prove that her remains were on that island, we will be coming back. But in the meantime, we've shifted our focus towards theory number two, the crashed in deep water around Howland. So as soon as we finished up our work at Gardiner, we sent the ship up to Howland to begin making a map so that we can then return there when we have a 6,000 meter capability. So we plan to be back there in 2021 to continue the work because we have to go there anyway. Bob, assuming that you eventually are successful and uncover the wreck of Amelia Earhart's aircraft, what is that going to mean? Why is it important that we discover these wrecks, the Titanic, the ships off Guadalcanal, PT-109, and hopefully Amelia Earhart's plane? Why is it important that we find the physical remains of these objects? Well, I think it's putting things to rest. I think I know that in many cases when I've made discoveries and the family members are still alive. When I worked on the U.S., we lost two submarines during the Cold War, the Thresher and the Scorpion. I meet with the family and it means a great deal to finally put someone to rest. It's like finding POWs. I was an army infantry officer during the Vietnam War. I was a naval officer during the Cold War. And so I've been around situations where people lose their lives and nothing's worse than not bringing it to closure. And I think that that's what it's all about. It's all about putting closure on something. I absolutely think you're right. And I have to say from an Australian perspective, you did something quite wonderful for the Australians with the discovery of the HMAS Canberra off Guadalcanal. That was in the early 1990s. It was moving because I brought one of the crew members with me and we had a plaque that they gave us to take down to the Canberra in our submarine and we laid it on the turret. And I remember coming to Canberra. I remember touring throughout Australia. I'm sure it's the same with the Sydney. It's putting things to rest. And so, yes, I know how moving it was when we found the Canberra. Of all these great discoveries you've made, Bob, is there one that stands out as extra special to you or are they all in the same pantheon of discovery? Well, I would say that kids ask me that all the time and my favourite response is my greatest discovery is the one I'm about to make. I think that's fair enough. And I think we all join you in hoping that that will be the wreck of Amelia Earhart's aircraft in the not too distant future. And anyone that wants to learn more about this latest expedition can tune into Expedition Amelia, premiering on Tuesday, the 22nd of October on National Geographic. Bob, thank you so much for your time. I know you're a busy man. We really appreciate hearing about this wonderful expedition. It's a great show. You're going to love it.