The Movie Beijing Doesn’t Want You to See | Yan Ma

My producer, Sophia, they tried to recruit her to be a spy before she leaves the country. Yang Ma is the director of the new feature film, The Unrestricted War, a thriller inspired by the events surrounding the outbreak of COVID-19. What they did after that turned a crisis, a public health crisis, to a global disaster. In this episode, he reveals some of the incredible challenges they faced to make this film. Sometimes we showed up on the set and the owner suddenly gets scared. He's like, oh, this is going to put me in danger. Three days before filming, you auditioned a new lead for the film? Yeah, yeah. That's how crazy it was, yes. His own family members in China were threatened by the Chinese communist regime. They cut some of my family members' income. They cut their paycheck. Like the convenience store next to my house and back of the store actually turned into a secret Chinese PlayStation. That's ironic to me. This is American Thought Leaders, and I'm Jan Jekielek. Yang Ma, such a pleasure to have you on American Thought Leaders. Thank you for having me. You've made a really, really excellent film, but there were some moments where you were wondering to yourself that maybe this film won't be made at all, and I want to get you to tell me about them. I'm talking about the ones that are not typical to most movies. As a Chinese-Canadian filmmaker, we kind of knew this from the very beginning of the production. There will be many challenges and even real-life risks because many of our team members are from China, including myself. My family members faced a lot of pressure from the local government, the Chinese government. Okay, wait a sec. Explain this to me. At what point did they experience pressure? After I started the project, they were called to the government office, and then when they got there, they realized they actually was led to what they called a national security office. So they have the officers in there tell them that everything has consequences. So basically, they issued a threat to them. And then later, they cut some of my family members' income. They cut their paycheck. So that's at the beginning of the project. So it's almost two years. So how did they know that you were making this film just at the beginning of the project? We don't have concrete evidence, but we know they have informants everywhere. Whatever we do, they are closely watching. So they will know right away. It's surprising. Many instances I experienced before, we decided to do something, and right away, next week, someone from our team just got a notice from the national security. And they know right away. We don't even know how they learned that, because a lot of those discussions happen with a closed door. It's a closed-door discussion. But we did experience many of this kind of situation. Explain to me the genesis of this film. This film is inspired by the pandemic. I just feel like it's important to reflect on what happened, what really happened, especially at the beginning of the outbreak. That's why in the film, I mainly show how the antagonists use their power to manipulate people and censor information, basically weaponize the crisis, and eventually lead it to a global pandemic. So I just feel like it's very important to shine a light on this, because this may happen again. And next time, if we have something much more deadly than COVID, I would say we may not have a second chance. So I feel like it's important for us to talk about it. There are so many brilliant filmmakers in China, but they just simply don't have the freedom to do this kind of film. So for me, as a filmmaker living in Canada, I just feel, yeah, I guess I just have to do it. I understand that just a few days before you actually started production, before you started filming, you lost the protagonist, the main character in the film. Just tell me about that. Yeah, that was a very tough situation. Three days before the shoot, our lead actors received a lot of pressure too, from their family and friends. The lead actor got really worried because he really believed that he will get harmed by the Chinese government. And one day, in the middle of the night, he got a phone call, there's nobody speaking on the other end, and it just really scared him. And the next day, he just told us that I have to leave, I have to go back, I have to go home. This kind of thing, it never happens in the film industry, because the wardrobe is prepared for him, and it just put us in a very difficult spot. So we had to find a new actor and basically start over three days before. So this is a challenge we are facing during the production. It happens a lot, this kind of thing. So yeah, it's real. This fear, this effect of CCP in the Western world, they're real. We felt it throughout the whole production. It's not something we felt so far away. It's not far away. Sometimes we showed up on a set, and the owner suddenly gets scared. He's like, oh, this is, I think it's going to put me in danger, and I'm not going to rent you this set anymore. This kind of situation, they run into all the time. This is really astonishing. You're talking to someone who's quite aware of the Chinese Communist regime's influence activities in America. We cover this on the show quite often. But what you're describing just as a practical reality is astonishing. And again, I think clearly your film is called The Unrestricted War. What happened to you is in the name of the film, in the production. There's a kind of an interesting... I think the young people these days call that meta. It's kind of unbelievable in a way. Ironically, I have... Last year or two years ago, they have this PlayStation, overseas PlayStation from the Chinese government established in North America. I actually got one of this right in my neighborhood. One minute walk from my house. Because I was watching on the map from the news. They showed where all the PlayStation are. And I say, oh, one of them is actually right in front of my house. It's in the convenience store, in the back of the convenience store. Just remind me about what these CCP overseas police stations are. What is that actually? Basically, it's like... So CCP, they send us this news to all the Chinese people outside the country. They said they are establishing this PlayStation overseas. So all the Chinese citizens can go there and basically provide information. If they see anyone doing anything that will harm China or doing anything that make the government look bad, you can just go to this PlayStation and report them. They have overseas operators will help. I don't know exactly how they will help, but this is... This is how far they reached in the Chinese community. Again, we hear about the Chinese police stations and so forth, but it doesn't hit home. It hits home a lot more when it's one minute away from your home and you're making a film that's critical of the Chinese Communist Party. Yes, it feels unreal. It's like the convenience store next to my house and the back of the store actually turned into a Chinese police station, a secret Chinese police station. That's ironic to me. As you told me earlier, your relatives have been threatened. They've had their pay cut because of your work. What do you think they're trying to accomplish with that? Well, obviously, they wanted to put pressure on me, just stop whatever I'm doing. But to me, I think the best way to react to this is do even more because you can back down. Once you back down, they know they have you in their pocket. They know that this works. It will just go worse. Thank you for tuning in to American Thought Leaders. In a world where spin and agendas dominate the headlines, I'm proud to bring you unfiltered insights from the brightest minds in America, from a relative outsider Canadian perspective. To keep this possible and to access even more exclusive content, in-depth documentaries, and our daily digital newspaper, consider subscribing to The Epoch Times today. It's your way to support independent journalism. Just hit the link in the description below to subscribe and unlock the full American Thought Leaders experience and so much more. You can try it today for just $1 a week. So just hit the link in the description below. And now back to the interview. And we're back with the director of The Unrestricted War, Yan Ma. If this film becomes big, and I think it really has the potential to, you've made a really powerful film here. Aren't you worried that it might have greater repercussions on your family back home? Yes, all the time. Especially to me, as Chinese, this kind of thing really can impact us a lot. But I don't think I can walk away. And my conscience won't allow me to do that, firstly. And then secondly, if I stop because of this, then they know, oh, this works for him. They won't stop. They will just do more. I experienced many of these kind of cases from my friends. They all experienced this before. There was a first time. There's always a second time. They will go to your family again. But this time, they will say, OK, we need you to do this for us. Otherwise, your family is going to be in trouble again. So they slowly turn you to work for them. This is how, for someone that doesn't have the bottom line, this is how they manipulate people. Again, as Chinese, someone grew up there, I knew all their tricks very well. Yeah, and again, this is, of course, shown in various ways with the Canadian family. I'm not going to give away some of the plot twists. Let's talk about unrestricted war. Of course, in this instance, I think the unrestricted war is using the virus as a weapon in effect. Again, whatever the origin was to basically affect the West in a very negative way. Right. And just actually what happened in reality, the whole economy was closed down ultimately. Right. And certainly that decision on the CCP side played a role in that, whatever the total decision making was. Tell me a little bit more about other realms of this unrestricted war. Nowadays, to be honest, I just feel it's everywhere because we are so closely connected to China in so many ways. I'll give you a funny example. Like all the international students, I came to Canada as an international student. And my producer, too, Sophia, she was sent to Canada as a student study. And she actually was recruited. They tried to recruit her to be a spy before she leaves the country. That really happens to her. And she said, of course, she said no, she refused. But even for the normal student, you decided to go to a different country and then you were approached by a Chinese spy agency for this kind of task. I'm just giving you an example like this to show that to them, there's no boundaries. They do anything necessary to get what they want. Right now, we have so many Chinese internet influencers, even platforms. And they're filled with their ideology and propaganda, even. It's really everywhere, including the fentanyl, what happened on the streets. The so-called collaboration with Western companies allows them to do all kinds of commercial espionage. Even many influences are made on the foreign politicians. In Canada, there's pretty strong evidence that a number of elected parliament members were elected in significant part with CCP money. Yeah, I heard that on the news. So what has been the response of the film? You've screened it now in a number of places. I just watched it when you screened it in Congress here in Washington, D.C. What has been the reaction of the audiences? The reaction from the audience is actually incredibly good. I'm very happy about it. I think the audience really get the message behind the film. We tried a few festivals, but we get a response that they are a little concerned about the topic. Because some of the very big festivals, usually they are very connected to China. A lot of Chinese filmmakers come every year. This happened to them before. If they accept our film, the Chinese government will ask the rest of the Chinese filmmakers to leave the festival. So they will suffer a loss. We experienced this in a Taiwan film festival before, the Golden Horse. They said the same thing. If we accept you, that means we lose all other Chinese films. Because the government will force them to withdraw. It's very interesting. It reminds me, there's a really powerful book called The Collaboration. It was written about how Hollywood worked with the Nazi regime in the 1930s. I believe in the middle of the 1930s, there was not a single film made critical of Nazi Germany, even though these extreme anti-Semitic policies were already being put in place. Not just anti-Semitic, there were all sorts of red flags. But Hollywood basically didn't notice, even though there were filmmakers who wanted to make those films. We also know that. There's an eerie parallel here. That just happens as normal for a culture market sometimes. Even including the Holocaust, in the beginning, when the Nazi regime was still there, before they were defeated, no one believed it. It reminds me of organ harvesting, too. I don't know if you're familiar with the topic. When we first heard about it, it was 2003, 2004. Very early. Right now, it's gradually. The culture products are picking that up. I hope that will make a difference. Because it is important. This will open people's minds. So they want to do something about it. Some news is too shocking. The general public will react to it very slowly. It's actually a great responsibility for all the filmmakers and writers to focus on issues like this. Because it really can shape opinions for the public. They can start thinking about this. Here's the thing. In the 1930s, it wasn't really clear that there would be this mass killing of Jews that happened during World War II. It was clear there were these extreme anti-Semitic policies and the genocidal language. You're talking about denying how easy it is for us to deny. Part of it is human nature. Part of it is we don't want to know about some of the darkest things. We don't want to believe that they're happening. I've encountered that. I've discussed this again on this program in the past. On the other hand, there's also this aspect where you have to make a sacrifice. You have to make a personal sacrifice, financial or otherwise, prestige maybe, in order to publicly accept that a government is doing something terrible. I guess my question is, why have you chosen to make this sacrifice? I feel the responsibility. Most of the Chinese filmmakers don't have the freedom to do it. I'm here. At least I can say something. For the Western filmmakers, for most of them, it's also very difficult for them to do research and access information, find information behind the subjects. It is almost impossible. For me, I guess I feel I have to do it. I'm still lucky because I'm in here. At least I'm safe. Thinking about other people, like the whistleblowers for the pandemic, and thinking about the human rights lawyers in China, and all the Falun Gong practitioners in China, they paid a much higher price for speaking the truth or just having a different voice. It's tough, but sometimes you have to do the right thing, I guess. Just like the whistleblower in the film. If you don't do it, it's going to be always like this. There's something really beautiful about what you just said. So where can people watch the film? It will be released on Ganjing World Plus. We will release the film on all the major platforms, including Apple TV, Amazon Prime, and YouTube movies. We can find the film on all the VOD platforms. Well, Yan, this film is profound, incredible. I'm going to encourage everybody that's watching to watch it. We're going to finish up now, but I'm going to roll the trailer right after we finish. So I encourage our audience to stay and check out the trailer at the end. And congratulations on an absolutely incredible film. It's been such a pleasure to have had you on. Thank you so much. Wipe her from her database and burn the body. Keep this contained or you will join her in the furnace. How'd you even get these numbers? That's a state secret. I'll be charged with espionage. Then you better consider a way not to get caught. We will lose everything of value here in China. They both exhibit high temperatures, severe headaches, and I'm almost concerned that it might be quite contagious. Why waste a good pandemic, right, General? You have a serious viral outbreak that can threaten the whole world. You mean fake news. We'll never be able to come back to China. Right now our safety is what matters most, nothing else. You saw the chaos in the hospital, right? If the party has a plan, it needs to be better. You think you know better than the party leaders? I need to be with my family. They will remain there to complete your mission. I will not commit a crime against humanity. The war never ended for us. So to double-cross me, Dr. Conrad, is something I cannot allow. Thank you all for joining Yanma and me on this episode of American Thought Leaders. I'm your host, Jan Jekielek.