The Eric Metaxas Show: Friday, November 6th 2026

Hey there, folks. Welcome to the program. Hey, guess what? I have a guest. Yes, I have a lot of guests on this program. In fact, that's the best part of the program. I talk to people who have something to say. I try to get out of the way. I usually fail. We'll see how it goes today. Today, my guest is Michael Clary. He is a Southern Baptist pastor in Kentucky, just outside Cincinnati. He has a book out. I love the title. I love the whole concept. It is called Loser Theology. Oh, gee. Loser Theology. Michael Clary, welcome to the program. Thank you, Eric. It's an honor to be with you. What is the subtitle of Loser Theology? Why the weak will not inherit the earth. Okay, this sounds confrontational, combative. I like it. I like it. Loser theology, I've confronted this a lot. I haven't called it loser theology. You've named it. So what led you to write this book? What's the background? What is loser theology? The biggest thing is that I was a pastor, and I was using the tools that I'd been trained in in seminary and in other ministry trainings, and I realized the tools I was using was basically conditioning me and the people I was leading to lose. And we do it faithfully, we do it humbly, piously, but basically, to be a doormat getting walked on for Jesus is the most faithful way to live. And not only is that unbiblical, But that also does real harm to people as we let the secular culture take over. And that's led to a lot of the craziness that we're seeing in the world today. Well, that's about it. I mean, I've seen this so much and it's fascinating because I always want to clarify for people that theology, in this case, what we're calling loser theology. Is from the pit of hell. It's not B minus theology. It's demonic theology masquerading as biblical theology. And listen, we're all fallen. We're all open to error, to be, to drifting in the wrong direction. That's what this is. And I, I mean, I wrote a book called Letter to the American Church addressing this in a different way. I have seen this in my lifetime over the decades that the church. In many cases, the American church, the Western church, has embraced bad theology. And so there's nothing uglier than religiosity masquerading as biblical theology. And so when you decided to write this book, what was the tripwire for you? What made you say, I need to write a book about this? I mean, you've been in the trenches as a pastor, so you've been living in this war with this bad theology. Well, I'm in the middle of a blue city. We planted a church in the inner city of Cincinnati, Ohio. And so I have seen the wreckage and the carnage that this secularism and progressive ideology can create. It wreaks havoc everywhere it goes. And whenever I hear Christians saying, well, we actually should support this or at least not get in the way, you know, the, the best version of it, if there is such a thing is just to let it happen and call it a blessing of Liberty, like David French called drag queen story or one time. Oh, we got to revisit this, just your reference. So when you, what you're referring to partially is kind of like BLM happens. It's like, oh yeah, let's, we'll get on board with that. Or like there, you know, there's something there. We'll just kind of ride that wave. Bad, bad, bad. How many churches fell for this? How many churches are still unrepentant? I mean, because there's some that fell for it and they kind of eventually figured out, oh, that was a mistake. How many churches fell for the trans lunacy or we're going to be silent on all this kind of stuff? You mentioned David French. Talk about that because I got to tell you, if there's anybody that is way off and he's not just off, he's been leading others astray, which is... In case you're interested, that's a very bad thing. But the idea that he even thinks that he speaks for the church, totally wrong. But say what he said. It was in one of his horrible columns in the horrible New York Times. Mm-hmm. Well, David French and Russell Moore are good buddies, and they both did a similar movie. They're not your good buddies. No, no, no. Yes, correct. Thank you. But they are good buddies with one another. But they did a similar thing. So David French, he wrote about Drag Queen Story Hour as ostensibly a conservative. And he said, hey, as a conservative, we have to accept this as a blessing of liberty. And And while denying the abhorrent moral insanity and perversion and grooming and abusing children that it leads to. Russell Moore did a similar thing at the Southern Baptist Convention whenever somebody on the convention floor was asking him about mosques being built in their cities. And Russell Moore very condescendingly rebuked this man asking the question. He said, I have no problem answering this question. I think we should absolutely support it because Christians are for religious And so. Our convictions, and these are men that would call themselves conservative in some sense, and people that follow them, many of them would consider themselves conservative. But in so doing, they present conservatives, they make the case for why we should accept liberalism, secularism, and all other kinds of insanity. And so this causes the church to, at best, just get out of the way, but at worst, even support it while not actually agreeing with the thing itself. Does that make sense? Yeah, of course. And I want to unpack this because I want to help people understand. How we get deceived, right? So we're talking, your book is Loser Theology. Again, folks, I'm talking to Michael Clary, Cincinnati area. So Loser Theology, the idea, and again, the devil needs truth to tell the bigger lie. So what is the truth? For example, what David French said, let's unpack that, okay? David French says, well, maybe we don't love Drag Queen Story Hour, but you know what? But it's one of the blessings of living in a free country and we need to celebrate it somehow. So it's kind of confusing, right? It's no different. He's basically saying he's misapplying a good idea. What's the good idea? The good idea is I believe in free speech. Free speech means I have to tolerate lies, which is true, right? In other words, if I believe in free speech, you have the right to say things that I don't agree with that are untrue. You have every right. And I celebrate that. I don't celebrate what you're saying. I celebrate free speech as a concept because we believe that if everybody has free speech, the truth will win. So there's a good idea there. But here you have David French misapplying this idea. And, and... it's, it's kind of like there are limits to liberty. Like, you know, we, we have to kind of understand what is liberty. It's not just a free for all. So David French here preposterously, and I would say piously saying like, well, I think, you know, we have to let that happen. The drag queen story hour, because that's the price of liberty. And that's where you and I would say, excuse me, no, there are limits subjecting children to something vile. To something demonic and confusing. This is not okay. We should not celebrate this. We should not. I mean, if somebody has the right, you know, to do this in the privacy of their own home, that's fine. But in a public library or in a public school, We have the right to say no. In fact, we have the duty to say no. People like David French and Russell Moore, they've become very confused on these issues. And And many in the church have been led astray. And that's where you're talking about. That's where you're going in your book, Loser Theology. We have to understand this is... And we've embraced something that we have no business embracing. But we can understand, Michael, how people have gotten deceived, how good Christians, you. I've seen this everywhere. I was in a church this weekend in Connecticut where you can see how they've been at least a little bit deceived along the lines of what you're calling loser theology. Yes, you used a word there that I think is really the key of the issue. You said David French does this piously. So, there's always been liberals. There are people out there that'll fly the rainbow flag and they will have drag queens in the pulpit. They're liberal churches, they're apostate synagogues of Satan. That's easy to see. It is when those that would not agree with those things and would call it sinful in principle would then deny somebody else's right to oppose it and criticize it because that's not humble. And so loser theology attracts sincere believers, many of whom would consider themselves conservative by presenting this super spiritual, above it all, nice guy, winsome. Pious, humble posture, but it is a false humility because it is a performance of an aesthetic of humility without the genuineness that humility actually is. Genuine humility can see the truth and speak the truth boldly and courageously and do so with a humble heart. It's not a show that he puts on. It's not an act of just being mild-mannered, Ned Flanders, nice guy kind of man. A truly humble man can be very bold, very courageous, very outspoken because he fears God more than he fears the consequences of opposing people that are doing wicked things. That's what a humble man does. That's what Charlie Kirk did. That's why he is an exemplar in the book of a man of incredible courage who exhibited meekness and humility, not with cruelty, but by speaking truth amidst the people that hated him and ultimately killed him Well, that's beautifully said. We really, we've seen so much of this. And again, I love the fact that you call it loser theology, because that's what it is. It's this lie. I mean, there's a lot here, but it's this basic idea that, I mean, where I write about it, as I say, let's talk about the slavery issue. Imagine if Christians had said, you know what, that's not a gospel related issue. Like we're just going to preach the gospel in our church and let the world be the world and do what it does Anything? No, no, no. If you're preaching the gospel in your church and people are getting saved and saying the Bible is God's word and we have to live according to this, they're going to stand boldly against slavery as Christians did. And it's the same today. 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Stand boldly against evil. So slavery is an easy example for us today. It was an easy example 150 years ago, but today we go, oh, it's obvious. Well. What is, what is it today that Christians need to stand against? Well, it is this lie that there are, you know. 20 genders or more than two. Everywhere you look, there are these lies, the lies of victimhood. The idea is that, oh, there's white supremacy and we need to stand with our brothers and sisters of color in solidarity. And it's all basically political liberalism couched as something that's true. And then you have all these pastors that They don't have the courage to stand against it. That would cost them something. So they're just drifting along with it. And we've seen so much of this. I mean, I know you've seen this. Yeah, loser theology, those who hold to this, they don't have courage or conviction. They will only fight battles where the matter has already been settled. So they'll fight issues of slavery or they'll fight against racism or they'll fight against sexism as though these are the most pressing issues of our day. When in reality, the most pressing issues of our day are the existential crisis of unchecked illegal immigration, or of murdering untold millions of babies, or of critical race theory and Black Lives Matter, or the LGBTQ insanity, the encroachment of Islam in our country. Loser theologies say, well, we want to be Christ-like, we want to be, you know, gentle Jesus, meek and mild. We don't want to oppose those things because we might jeopardize our witness. But they can be counted on to speak out boldly whenever the issue is already settled and the world is already aligned with them. Or when it's a left-wing issue. I mean, this is why when you see people like Russell Moore or David French, they're pretending, really, to be theologically Orthodox Christians. And giving us this false interpretation. Listen, we saw it from, you know, many pastors across the country when it came to the vaccine. That's the classic example. Like, shut up and get the jab. That's the Christ-like thing to do. And you think, no, the Christlike thing to do is to speak heroically against an experimental vaccine that is being forced on me and my family and my community. The bravest thing the church could do is to say, wait a second, something doesn't smell right here. We're not going to go along with this. We're going to dare to question this. We're going to dare to question, was the election a good election or was there something fishy? We're going to dare to do that. And the voices on the left said, shut up. It's the fairest election in history. Don't be a vaccine denier. Don't be a... I mean, they would throw these terms. And the left in the evangelical church went right along with it. And they were pious about it. And they called people like me names. And I thought, even if I didn't know which side to be on, This isn't a good look for them. They're telling me, shut up. And I think if you're telling me to shut up, it sounds like you're just shilling for this point of view. You don't seem like you're actually interested in the truth. And, you know, Michael, we've seen so much of this in the last six or seven years. I mean, it's been building and it. You know, you call it loser theology, but it started, I guess, as third-wayism or whatever that's called, or gospel-centric theology. I mean, it's given these nice ideas, nice terms, but it's fundamentally false. But like every fundamental falsehood, as we were saying, there's a truth in there, and that's what is used to deceive people. 100%. So, the gospel-centered movement, there's been a... A real effort in this regard to traffic liberal leftist ideas in the, in the, um, and under the guise of this is an expression of the gospel. And so if you'll notice that whenever conservatives speak the Bible's truth to the public square, that is regarded by leftists as threatening the gospel. But whenever a progressive says something to the public square, that is seen as an expression And one of the most egregious examples of this was from Curtis Chang. Who is also in the David French and Russell Moore in that orbit. He posted a video promoting the vaccine, addressing the objections of Christians who said that these vaccines were developed using aborted fetal tissue. And he said, okay, yes, there is in the origin of this aborted babies, and yes, there's death there, but in the gospel, we see life come from the dead, and we see resurrection life from the crucifixion of our Savior. And so, getting the vaccine is an expression of the gospel truth that life can come from the dead. So he's justifying the murder of babies to develop vaccines and then telling us to inject it into our bodies as a gospel issue. It was abominable what he said. Actually, that's so sick. I've not heard that. And let's be clear, folks. We've got to unpack this. Jesus willingly gave his life, willingly chose, willingly to give his life. An aborted human being does not make that choice. That aborted human being is murdered. And so, again, the conflation of these two, you've often heard me talk about the golden triangle of freedom, that intersection of faith, virtue, and liberty. And for that triangle to hold, we need access to the truth. Unfortunately, the Medicare system often feels designed to obscure the truth, leaving millions on plans that don't actually fit their needs. That's why I want you to know about Chapter. Chapter is a rare breed in the healthcare world, a completely independent advisor that Thank you so much for joining 421-1253. That's 571-421-1253. us. It's time to find the clarity you deserve. I just decided I want to write a book on the American Revolution because this is extremely important. 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They don't have the facts, but they're posturing in such a way that they make it seem like, you know, you're the bad guy. Just lie down and, you know, be the doormat. Be the doormat for Christ that the Bible calls you to be. The Bible does not call you to be a doormat for Christ. It calls you to speak boldly and to fight for what is right and good and true. Now we have to fight differently. We don't fight the way the world fights, but this lie has just captured churches across America. And I say this, I mean, I... I know because I see this everywhere I go where people will say, well, yeah, I go to a church that, oh, but it preaches the Bible. And I say, no, it doesn't preach the Bible. If you are not speaking boldly on all of these issues on the right side, you're not preaching the Bible. You're pretending that you can preach the Bible while avoiding this stuff. That's a lie. That's unbiblical. But there are tons of churches and there are people who are listening to this program who go to those churches. who tithe God's money to those churches, and this makes them uncomfortable. Well, I hope it makes you uncomfortable. You should rise with discomfort because you're disobeying God, and you're pretending to obey God, and this needs to be confronted. And that. And that's why I'm talking to my guest, Michael Clary, who's written a book called Loser Theology, which confronts this very issue. When did the book come out, Michael? Towards the end of August, early September. Okay, so it's a brand new book, Loser Theology. Tell us again the subtitle. I love the subtitle. Why the Weak Will Not Inherit the Earth. So, that's a great title because the scripture says, Jesus says, the meek will inherit the earth. That's different from weak. So, tell us, because this is classic, folks. This is the misunderstanding. Even an English word, the word meek, you know, is not in the original manuscript, right? So, it's kind of an unfortunate word because it's easy to twist toward weak, but it doesn't mean that. So, why did you use that phrase, why the weak will not inherit the earth, because a lot of people think, well, what do you mean? It says right in the Bible, the meek will, isn't that the same thing? It's not. I've had so many people comment to me that it's like, what do you mean that you're negating scripture? And they say that because they assume that the Bible says the weak shall inherit the earth, but it's in the Beatitudes, Matthew chapter five, Jesus said, blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth and meek and weak are very different words. And the only thing they have in common is that they rhyme, but they have different meanings. So meekness is an expression of strength that is under control. And so the best leader that you can think of will be a man of weakness, meekness, because a meek man is going to have the range that can be very assertive, very outspoken, courageous, and bold, but he is also going to be restrained by virtue that is going to prevent him from becoming a tyrant. That is meekness, which is strength under control. And Jesus says, That's the kind of person that will inherit the earth. The meek shall inherit the earth. The weak, however, is what loser theology promotes. Loser theology takes the scriptures and it promotes weakness, but it's under the guise, camouflaged as virtue, to make us think that when I am weak, when I am passive, when I'm not doing anything, then I'm being just like Jesus as he was passive, as he was led to the slaughter and the cross. And they take this one moment in the life and ministry of Christ, and they maximize it and apply it across the Christian life and say, that must be our posture. Jesus on the road to Calvary in the Passion Week, that is the default posture of the Christian life for everybody for all time. Therefore, if you're asserting power, if you have authority, if you're being bold, outspoken, if you are being an aggressive person asserting the supremacy of Christ over all of life, You are actually undermining the gospel, and you're not being Christ-like. That's probably pride or selfish ambition or some other vice, and that is what loser theology trains people to do. And as a result, you have Christians that love Jesus that would otherwise be bold and courageous, but they thwart themselves and throttle themselves because they think the Bible requires them to because their church has told them to. And that is the real problem. I wrote the book to be able to address the fact that what you think that you've been told to do is not actually what the Bible says. There is truth in loser theology in the sense that when we suffer, there's a way to handle it. But suffering and being defeated and being a dormant is not the default mode. In fact, Jesus gave us power. He sent us out into the world to make disciples of all nations. And he said, you know, We are ambassadors representing the interest of the eternal king in this world, in this life, and that's our primary calling. You know, it's amazing when you... I just decided I want to write a book on the American Revolution because this is extremely important. Unless Americans know our story, we cannot possibly continue to keep the republic. Hi, everyone. If you were injured in an accident, listen up. We have legal professionals standing by to answer your questions. You can find out if you have a case and how much it's potentially worth. I'm Gina Belichick, along with Super Bowl champ and two-time pro bowler Vernon Davis. So, Vernon, tell everyone watching who should call right now. 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Okay, so as Michael, as you just said, weak rhymes with meek, and a lot of people think meek means weak. And this is something I always, I never talk about this enough, but words, translations, it's very difficult to convey the truth of it. And this is why you need discipleship. This is why you need good teaching in churches, because we're not going to make this on our own. How would you know from just, I'm just going to read the Bible on my own. Okay. You read it. It says meek. And you kind of take it to mean what you think it means. Well, that's wrong. It's not a good word. The word meek in the English Bible is a bad word, but it's the best word we have. But it conveys weakness. So we have to go, and in a sermon or in teaching or listening to a show like this, we have to clarify, what does the word of God say? The word of God talks about. This value meekness means strength under control, whole different thing. So I think of George Washington. I wrote my book on the American revolution. There is no more meek man in the sense, in the real sense of the word than George Washington. Oh my goodness. You talk about power bridled by character and virtue. It is amazing. When you think about it, what, what, uh, A definition of meekness, that is profound, but the word meek doesn't do it justice. And I just wonder, is there another word? There really is hardly another word that we can use. So we're stuck and we have to do the hard work of saying, this is what it means. So I think of George Washington, the idea that he could have been. He could have taken control, and that's what Congress was afraid of, that he's going to be like Oliver Cromwell. He's going to say, hey, I made this happen. I should be the king. I should be. And he would have been a good king. But he said, no, he did the ultimate thing. And that's really what Jesus does. Jesus lays down his life. He could have called legions and legions of angels. He chose to go with God's path. That is very different than going along with the zeitgeist, with the worldly spirit that says, shut up, get the vaccine, don't argue. Go along with this demonic stuff that's mutilating children. Keep your mouth shut. It's all about the gospel or something like that. It is such a diabolical lie, Michael, that it really requires us over and over and over again to help people understand what this is. Again, the book is Loser Theology, Why the Weak Will Not Inherit the Earth. Um, I. It's funny because I just went to a church last Sunday. That reminded me of this. I don't normally go to churches like this. I found myself in an evangelical church and it was not. really saying anything overtly wrong, but the whole posture of it was kind of like, well, like it was sort of apologizing for what it's putting out there. Like it's so seeker friendly that it's actually misrepresenting something. It's not bold because it's afraid to be bold because that's too strong. That's too masculine. That kind of masculinity is toxic masculinity and we have to be careful and stuff. And this has crept into the churches across America. And people like you and by the grace of God, me and others are calling it out and saying, folks, you've been deceived. You have been, this is not biblical. This is not biblical. And if you're going to a church that is pushing this, you're participating in a lie. You're complicit in a lie. You need to get out of that. You need to stop giving God's money to a lie or to something that, again, it may not be a bold lie. But it's a lie nonetheless. It's a lie by omission, by pretending that we don't want to confront these things. We don't want to be combative. Yes, God calls you to be combative in the right way. Mm-hmm. Well, okay, so the book is Loser Theology, Why the Weak Will Not Inherit the Earth. What else is in this book? It's a whole book. Let's get into some more of what's in it. Yeah, one of the things you keep mentioning churches, and one of the things that's been very encouraging to me since releasing the book is I've been hearing from a number of pastors who want to speak out, but they almost just needed something from the outside to give them permission and encouragement to be more bold and outspoken, because there are a lot of pastors who want to be more bold and courageous. And there's two ways to be able to determine and discern the nature of a church and a pastor. One is what he is willing to say. You listen to his words. But an even bigger tell is what is he unwilling to say. And that is a lot of the fault. You can have a lot of churches that will preach all kinds of theology. They'll preach on the sufficiency of scripture and the virgin birth and the deity of Christ and the atonement of Jesus. And they'll preach all of these beautiful doctrines. And all of those doctrines are true, yes and amen. And then you notice that they will be supposedly preaching the gospel, that they never apply it to the lives of their people. And they never address issues that are affecting them day to day in their workplace and in their schools and elsewhere. And so they do this and that enables them to sort of skate by and be, skate by unnoticed that, you know, they haven't actually addressed the difficult thing. And that is an act of cowardice. Ultimately, a pastor has a duty not merely to preach on the doctrines of the Bible in the sense of this is who God is and what Christ did for us, but we also have to speak about what is going on in the world. And throughout history, Christians and pastors have had an emphasis on preaching the truth of God, even confronting public officials and calling people to repentance in the public square. So we have to preach the issues that people are dealing with, the sins of our culture, the things that our culture is celebrating, and call those out. Loser Theology conditions pastors and trains them not to do that. And the book says we must do this if we are to be faithful to God and assert ourselves in the public square wherever God has us. Well, I'm just so excited you wrote the book. Honestly, if it weren't for my friend, Ryan Helfenbein, tipping me off, I might not have known about it. This is an important book, folks. And I have said over and over, too, that when I wrote my book, Letter to the American Church, which is similar, it's a similar concept. I really think if a pastor would read it, It's going to trouble them in a good way. It's going to make them say, you know what, maybe I did miss this. Maybe I made an idol of evangelism where God wanted me to speak boldly at the risk of losing somebody temporarily. And I have to say that this is the challenge, Is will pastors dare to read this? So Loser Theology is a book like my book, Letter to the American Church. I say, hey, parishioners. Get a copy of Loser Theology. If you're serious about your walk with God, get a copy of the book Loser Theology. You can read it, but whether you read it or don't, give it to your pastor and say, I expect you to read this. This is important. And if they don't respond, It's God's way of telling you, you need to find another church. And the only way all of this evil can succeed is because people in the pews refuse to do what God is calling them to do, which is to walk away from this kind of theology, to walk away from a church that is leading people down this path. And I have to say, Michael, it is shocking to me, again, how many people in America are are going to churches. That will not address this kind of stuff. And I just. I just think, hey, God is a judge, time is short, and this is very important. The culture has slid toward the edge of the abyss because of pastors like this and because of you, parishioners, who go to churches like this. You should not act as though you get a pass. You don't get a pass. If you're going to a church like this, you need to confront yourself and understand you're participating in a lie. All the excuses, I can hear them, I've already heard them, but you are participating in a lie because there are people, think of the young men that are not getting the messages of boldness to be proud that they're made in the image of God as a man, to be a man, to protect women, to where you say, well, we don't go there in our church. Well. Then it's on you. I want to be real clear. So I hope people will buy the book, Loser Theology, Why the Weak Will Inherit the Earth. I hope they'll read it. But even more important, I hope they'll give it to their pastors. Folks, I'll say it again. If you're not dealing with this, if your church is not dealing with this, you're part of the problem. Let me be clear. I just said I was in a church this weekend. These are good people, but they're part of a problem. I could just see it. I could smell it. It's like this kind of slightly or not so slightly apologetic. Attack. They don't want to be too bold because that's too strong. That's too masculine. That's too triumphalist. They really don't. They're getting it wrong. They're getting it wrong. And, you know, it's why I say what I say. And it's why I'm thrilled to have you, Michael Clary, on today to talk about your book, Loser Theology. And it is such a great title because there are so many people that think, like, I'm called to lose. And it's like, well, yeah, on the one hand, that's true. And on the other hand, it's not true. And God expects you to know the difference. God expects you to know when you're supposed to, when Jesus says, turn the other cheek. Yeah. That's in our own lives. There's a place when somebody attacks you, there's a time to stand up and there's other time to turn the other cheek and to, you know, we have to understand how this is applied. So what else is in the book Loser Theology? Yeah. There's, um, whenever we... Whenever Jesus said, turn the other cheek, that is taken in an absolutist sense to where we can never defend ourselves. And there was one prominent pastor that made the argument some time ago that it is wrong for a Christian to arm himself, and if somebody were breaking into his home, it would be wrong for him to use a weapon to kill the intruder. And there was a couple of reasons. Hey there, folks. I've been saying that 2026 must be the year of accountability, whether talking about government spending or the way we steward our own families. We have a moral duty to seek the truth. But let's be honest, in the world of Medicare, truth is often the first casualty. Seniors like my 91-year-old mom are bombarded with mailers and pushy phone calls that feel more like propaganda than helpful guidance. This is why I value my partners at Chapter. They operate on a different principle, independence. 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And for the first time ever, when you buy a six-piece MyTowelSet, you're going to get another six-piece TowelSet absolutely free. We all know we have to limit these buy one, get one free offers, so order now. Our made-in-the-USA MyPillow mattresses and mattress toppers as low as $99.98. And how about our Giza Dream bed sheets for as low as $29.98. They're the most comfortable sheets you'll ever own. So go to MyPillow.com or call the number on your screen. Use this promo code to take advantage of these exclusive offers. And when you order right now, your order ships absolutely free. For this, one was he might have a sinful motive of anger or revenge in his heart. And, and two, he would lose the opportunity to evangelize and share the gospel with that assailant if he murdered or if he killed him in his home. And that's like an Anabaptist sort of reading of the Sermon on the Mount, which takes the turn the other cheek kind of teaching and pushes it to an absolute sense and fails to recognize the hyperbole in what Jesus was saying, because we don't gouge out eyes and we don't cut off hands literally, as Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus was using hyperbole there. And so if somebody is attacking and we fight back, turn the other cheek means we don't Don't seek strict justice. In every situation, in a normal everyday encounter, somebody at church offends me, somebody insults me, we get into an argument, something like that, then I don't need to seek strict justice every time. I have the choice that I can make to overlook an offense, and that is a virtuous thing to do. But we cannot absolutize that and expand it to the social level to where we make that our policy as a nation, to where we fail to punish criminals and we fail to expel illegal immigrants that are here based on the Sermon on the Mount. So, loser theology kind of traffics in this thinking that passivity is the baseline and anything that we do that asserts ourselves and pushes back in a way that is lawful and justified according to scripture, that actually is done, must be done for a selfish or sinful reason. And so, it keeps us quiet and passive and we just let people, you know, trample all over us all the time. Well, that's very well put and so important. And again, this is the spirit of the age and it has crept into the church, crept into many churches. I'll say it again, it's crept into many churches attended by people who are listening right now. And folks, I want to challenge you. God is going to judge you for this. If you think you can look the other way or pretend this doesn't apply to you. It does apply to you, and this is an opportunity to do the right thing and to ask God to lead you. You have a role, first of all, in holding your pastor to account. And so many people have said, well, I gave my pastor your book. Folks, if your pastor doesn't change, get out. Stop pretending, well, I did what I could do, and now I still have to go to this lame church. Or it's not that lame. They have a good children's program. You know, there are a lot of mosques with a good children's program. I don't understand what this has to do with, you have an ability, you have a responsibility before God to, to do what you can while you can. And so to enable something that is wrong. And again, there's so many evangelical churches that there's a lot of good there, but They refuse on this issue to deal with it. This is the thing. This is the elephant in the room. This has been in the middle of the culture, going along with BLM, going along with the vaccine, going along with the left, saying, well, we don't want to talk about voting for Trump, or we don't want to talk about it. All of this stuff. We don't talk about Charlie Kirk being murdered. We don't talk about that. If you don't talk about that, if that's where you are, I know exactly where you stand and I cannot go to your church. And I want to challenge the folks listening. If your pastor thinks Charlie Kirk was a divisive figure, then your pastor is wrong. And this is a very important issue and you should not go to that church. I want to challenge people on that. And I'm challenging people on that This is very important. Michael Clary, congratulations on a very important book, Loser Theology, Why the Weak Will Not Inherit the Earth. Where can people find you, Michael Clary? Two main places. One is on Substack, which is a writing platform. And that is, it's just my name, D, the letter D, michaelclary.com, dmichaelclary.com. The other is on Twitter. My handle is at dmichaelclary. Well, that's very simple. D. Michael Clary. Congratulations. The book is Loser Theology. Folks, get a copy. Give it to your pastor. And if he doesn't deal with it pretty quickly, you need to get out of that church. I challenge you. Michael Clary, thank you so much for writing the book and for being my guest today. God bless you. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Mike Lindell here. The radical left and the deep state aren't just coming for our freedoms. They're coming after our money, too. For years, they've been destroying our economy from the inside out with reckless spending, open borders, woke policies that crush our businesses. And now they've left us with an inflation disaster that's wiping out the savings of our hardworking families. They don't want us to be independent. They want us to be dependent on the government. Well, that's not going to happen on my watch. That's why I partnered with American Independence Gold. It's a veteran-owned company that's helping patriotic Americans fight back by protecting our savings with real physical gold and silver. And right now, they're giving away up to $15,000 in free silver and a free gold IRA kit. A portion of all the profits go to 9-11 first responders and veterans at the Tunnels to Towers Foundation. The deep state can't touch your gold. So visit MikeLindellGold.com or call 844-714-4653 right now. That's MikeLindellGold.com. Thank you. Take back control. Welcome to Vocal, the free speech social app that gives you a platform to amplify your voice. Speak freely, connect boldly, and be part of a growing movement for truth, faith, and freedom. Want to know what's happening right now? The Now Playing feature shows you exactly who's live and what's streaming in real time. Check out the show's feed, a non-stop lineup including Lindell TV News 24-7, shows and on-demand programming all in one place. Connect with your favorite host and never miss a show. Explore the featured page for quick access to Lindell LTV's top shows. Follow your favorites and watch their newest content flow right into your feed. And when they go live on Vocal, you can join the live chat and be part of the action. Ask questions, share your thoughts, even help shape future shows. Stay informed on issues around securing our elections by following your state's Cause of America account. Join a group and connect on a deeper level from faith and freedom to the future of our nation. Go to Vocal.com or download the app today and be a part of the mission to save our country. Hey there, folks. Suzanne and I want to invite you to join us for something extraordinary. It is a Socrates in the City cruise on the Mediterranean, August 24th through September 1st, 2027. That's a year from now. We'll spend eight glorious nights aboard the magnificent Sea Cloud Spirit sailing under full canvas through Sardinia, Corsica, and Elba. But this is not your Typical cruise throughout the voyage, I'll host special Socrates in the City conversations with world-class thinkers about faith, meaning, civilization, and of course, the pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness. And because this is an intimate ship, we'll have real time for questions, meals together, and the kind of friendships you simply cannot create at a crowded conference. The cruise is selling quickly. The veranda suites and superior staterooms are already sold out and all remaining prices increase by 10% on October 1st. So do sign up today at socratesinthecity.com slash cruise. That's socratesinthecity.com slash cruise. Come sail the Mediterranean with us. Hey there, folks. As you know, one of the sponsors of this program, and I feel very strongly about this particular sponsor, is Grace Precious Metals. I wanted to get the CEO of Grace Precious Metals on the program, Bill Armour, and I have succeeded. Promises made, promises kept. Bill Armour, welcome to the program. Thanks for having me. Great to be here. I wanted to talk to you about this thing called the everything bubble. Uh... You're qualified to talk about it. I'm not. I'm barely qualified to understand what you have to say, but I know that it ties in to what we want to get to. So tell my audience, what is this thing that people are calling the everything bubble? The CAPE ratio, it stands for cyclically adjusted price to earnings. And what that is, it takes what a company has actually produced over the last 10 years and then averages it against what that stock is worth. And it creates a ratio out of that. And historically, that number across the entire stock market will sit at something around 20. Might go a little higher, might go a little lower, but generally it's going to reside around 20. Back in 2001, when we had the dot-com bubble and the crash there, It jumped all the way up to 43, and then came cratering down to about 16. And that was where people saw 60%, lost 70% in the NASDAQ, 40% in the S&P. So people across the board, retirement savings were dramatically impacted. So when you look at that, you say, okay, well, what's it at today, Bill? Well, today it's at 41. So it's the highest we ever had bar 2001. And it's pointing to this realization that we are getting so much fluff. You know, you slap AI. on the front of a company's name, and suddenly it's worth 10X multiples here. So it's like the dot-com boom, right? I mean, I remember this vividly because I'm older than you. I mean, I remember people, you could just see people kind of going crazy for this and throwing money and acting like, you know, we've discovered free energy or something. Like, jump on. We're all going to be billionaires. And clearly, this happens in history. And you say this is happening now with AI. That seems to be an understatement. I mean, it's kind of amazing how people are just going crazy over this, acting like it's free money. Come on, join us. Yeah, exactly. And I mean, the scale of it, I think, is what should concern people because the NASDAQ was a 78% drop in 2001. And for someone that is looking to preserve their wealth, you know, maybe you're not 25 anymore. You're saying, hey, I've got to make this last the rest of my life. A 78% to what you have means that you probably have to go back to work. And that's, I think, the part that a lot of brokers and whatnot will not necessarily explain is the cyclicality of this. We see these market crashes often. We saw them in 2000. We saw it in 08. We saw it in 2020 around the sort of COVID drop there. All of this together, we're seeing this cyclicality, this constancy to the market drops. And so what does that mean for someone that has retirement savings? It means that you are in a position where you need to think critically about what you're doing to protect, preserve your wealth, because the answers that were true maybe 50, 60, 70 years ago in just kind of trust the system are not true today. We have $40 trillion in national debt. That's not a number that we would have even fathomed 50 or 60 years ago. Yeah, it's kind of disturbing. So once again, precious metals, gold and silver, tend to be stable, and it's why we're recommending them. But the reason I say go with Grace Precious Metals, and by the way, people can go to metaxismetals.com, folks. If you need a website, go to metaxismetals.com. It'll take you to Grace Precious Metals, metaxismetals.com. I really, I've been astonished at, you know, talking to you and learning about the business and how a lot of other, um, gold companies, they're, they're playing this game and you can kind of see why they do it, but it doesn't really mean it's okay. Or I would say if you have a choice, uh, I would, I would avoid them. You know, uh, it's just, uh, it's like dealing with a used car salesman. You just think like, I understand why he's using these tactics on me, but I don't have to like the tactics. Yeah, exactly. I would say there's two things here. One is that you're right. Precious metals have been a store of value and they've done incredibly well through these turbulent market times. So there is a lot of reasons to want to own precious metals and people are right to think that they're right to feel that way. The other side of that though, is how you go about purchasing precious metals is its own sort of dangerous journey. And the problem, as you just alluded to, there is a lot of these companies out there will sell products with exorbitant markups. They won't explain that to the client. Client will think that they're getting, you know, just gold and silver. How complicated can it be? But in reality, a, you know, a sort of a sleazy salesman has come in and pushed what are called semi-numismatic or numismatic coins, which is just collectible. So they're charging a massive markup for the design on the coin. Okay, just to be clear, just to solve for X. So the theory or the idea is that gold and silver hold their value. But what they're doing... somewhat subtly is they're, they're taking you into a realm where, yeah, you're getting gold and silver, but you're now getting this other thing, which doesn't hold its value with you're, you're getting this other thing, which is, you know, um, It's subjective, a coin. We know how much it weighs. We know how much gold there is, but it's a beautiful coin. So they're bringing you into a realm that moves away from the whole point of it is that I'm getting something that holds its value. It's gold and silver, period. Yes. Yeah, exactly. You want, you want ounces, not designs. So our goal here on our mission at Grace Precious Metals is to get people the most ounces possible, irregardless of how pretty the coin looks. We're, we want to find people, uh, basically the metal itself at the lowest premium, lowest markup possible. And that's where we're, I mean, we're better than, than just about anywhere you can find. Uh, when you talk about all in that's buying, that's selling everything, We're going to be, you know, I mean, we're beating everyone. That's the encouragement I give to people. You want the best deal. You want the most ounces possible. That's what we're here for. If you're shopping around, if you're a coin collector, that's great. Probably not someone that we necessarily work with. We're here to help people preserve wealth via exactly like you said, get the most ounces possible. And that's what's going to be valuable. And you look at silver was added to the critical minerals list here for this year. You look at gold's potentially being talked about as. Backing the currency again in the future. So you look at these metals are going to be valuable because of the weight they have, the contents, not the designs. I mean, silver, the infrastructure that what we're using it for, the amount we're using, we're in sixth consecutive year of a deficit in terms of production versus usage. We're draining the above ground silver supply with everybody talking about making America healthy again. Well, we have proudly partnered with airwaterhealing.com and their revolutionary whole home air purification system. The V3 from Air Water Healing does 3,000 square feet of purification. It eliminates dust, mold, viruses, and odors. But here's the part I love. They require no filters to ever be changed and virtually no maintenance. That's promo code Lyndale at airwaterhealing.com.