Market Gardening In Australia Is On Another Level! 5 Tales Farm Tour

What's so epic is that this is your second year. How is that even possible? We've been owning this property for two years and this farm is two years old, but we've been farming for 12, 13 years. Unlike a lot of our sector, about 80% of what we do, we do wholesale, which is an interesting concept. For us, a small farm, basically we're putting as much energy as we can in to maximize our growing potential and that comes under greenhouses. Putting one of these tunnels up basically turns our winter into an internal spring. These structures on their own are a huge risk mitigator. For flooding, for rain, for hail, for extreme sun, we can control that. I got like the biggest slap of my life, like farming and having a baby and being a woman that like loves being outside and suddenly I'm a mom. If I could give you a grade about the tomatoes, if I may, on a scale of zero to 10, I would give you 12. Like this is like... Welcome, we're Five Tails Farm. Mikey, Kez, Jay, and we've got Bee and Orr running around, which are our seasonal crew. We've been farming together for quite a while. We all used to manage and run a farm on the peninsula for many years called Mossy Willow and about three years ago, we opened our own business, which is Five Tails Farm. It started as a rental site on the peninsula for one year. And then after a year, we moved, we bought, we're very lucky to buy this piece of land and moved here two years ago. So everything you see, this is the start of our third summer on the farm. Two and a half years, yeah. So it's a lot been done. Most of the paddocks that you'll see were all vines before we came, were Chardonnay vines that we pulled out and left kind of two pretty ones for shows. But that was the site before we started. We mainly sell to the restaurant scene via direct sale and a few good wholesaler partners. So actually, unlike a lot of our sector, a lot of our outlet is actually wholesale. So about 80% of what we do, we do wholesale. And then the rest is full dollar, which is an interesting concept for better and worse. We do sell to a few good grocery stores together with a very big grocery store in the city, Terra Madre, most of you would know it. They're a very good customer of ours as well, which is pretty cool to tap into yet the larger supermarket-ish places. Throughout the years, and because we've, well, we started our journey kind of like the classic market gardening. We sold a lot to farmer's markets in Melbourne and had a small CSA. But after kind of moving on from the peninsula, starting a family, COVID, and kind of the limited market, farmer's market scene in Melbourne, we kind of changed our outlets and that also changed our crop selection. So we moved from a farm that grows, you know, everything under the sun to a few main crops that we really focus about on, sorry. So kind of the main crops that we grow here on the farm are zucchinis over summer, obviously. Zucchinis, cucumbers, tomatoes, and then lettuce and salad mix, which is, yeah. Which is a very, yeah, it's kind of a handful selection of things that worked for us throughout the year and a handful of cut flowers, which we'll talk about as well. Infrastructure? Yeah, totally, for sure. Kez just want to mention infrastructure. So for us, a small farm, basically we're putting as much energy as we can in to maximise our growing potential and that comes under greenhouses. Every time we put up a greenhouse, like down here in the Southern Australia climate, down here, it's incredibly temperate. So putting one of these tunnels up basically turns our winter into an internal spring. So lettuces grow incredibly well. We've done, we've basically worked out it's almost a month faster in here than it is to outdoors. So we're basically saving up to get as many as we can. I guess a part of our vision is to have a compact part of our farm under tunnels and have other parts, like whether it's a Jay's property farm or at the back that are outdoors, because this really does maximise space for us. And you can even see in here now, we've got mature cucumbers growing up and we have lettuces planted all the way down the sides of tomatoes, of our cucumbers to add the extra revenue. And that made possible because of, I think infrastructure like this, certainly in a spring, which was incredibly wet. So we had a hundred percent more rain than we usually get in November. A lot of stuff outside was stunted and slow and we've got cucumbers popping already looking super helpful. So it's also really great to see the difference between a tunnel like this with the extra thermal mass that it holds as opposed to a cat tunnel. So for us, the cat tunnel essentially prevents moisture. So you don't get any rain on the soil, but in terms of its added thermal mass or its heat units it adds, we've found very minimal because we don't close it. We have them open. So having this closed down, we haven't completely closed the whole of winter. Now we start venting it out. But we last year had our cucumbers out. So we wouldn't have cucumbers now if it wasn't in a structure that had the added heat units, I think. So- Mikey, what's the price of a building like this? So this is 40, this was, you can, 38,000 to 45, depending on the extra stuff. So for example, we put on crossbars for obviously for trellising. Shade net. Shade nets. And we also put insect nets on the side. So you can have this structure completely open. It might be down to say 34,000. Do you think the payback is one year, two years, three years? We're gonna pay this back in two years, probably. Well, like you said, Jayme, Jayme pinned the pinged out expected income from that tunnel based on that would be, that would pay it off in a year, hopefully. And I think something important about the infrastructure that for me was, I think, like a key to the growth of our business is my like acceptance of the fact that I'm not just a farmer, I'm a business owner and the courage to take out loans and the security of having a cashflow projection and being able to know that I could repay those loans because now, you know, we have these two structures. We took a loan for a truck, like being able to do these things and have a solid business education as well as the farming one has been so crucial for us. And we can talk a bit about the stuff that helped us get there, but yeah, but these tunnels are the tunnels that allow us to pay wages, to hire, to have a consistent production around the year. And yeah, we wouldn't be able to farm without them. For this tunnel, there was, we got part grant from, this area used to be the timber industry. So as you can see behind, there's a hell of a lot of wood and recently it's been passed, there's no native logging allowed. So the government's putting a bit of money into this area to try to transition businesses out of the timber industry and into other stuff. So essentially we had to, in order to get the money, we had to give a full-time equivalent to another worker. So they said, you give a job, we'll give you some cash. So that was lucky for that one. And this one, we went into partnership with one of our great partners, like our business partners that we sell to, basically said, we wanna produce more of X for you guys that they would like, and we need the support for it. And then went into a, what's that? Yeah. I think you have to be. You gotta be really creative with your capital. Absolutely. Yeah. No, they built it. Like, yeah, thank God. I'm done building greenhouses. Not my skillset. Well, they got that up in four days. Wow. Yeah. Four days. Three weeks. Yeah. If I can just comment on what you said, Karen, because I think it's so important, like having a vision of cashflow and, so important. Like, and there's so much work to be done because most farmers, most growers, it's not second nature for them to have that, that kind of perspective, but it really helps understand what's going on. I think I really appreciated what you said at the beginning of inside the box. And I feel like I'm that a bit in the team. And sometimes I feel a bit like, you know, straighty because of it, but learning how to grow a good crop, like, yes, it takes time and learning, but it's not the hard bit, but being confident with your numbers, being able to plan ahead, being like, I think one of the biggest advice that we got from Oliver that was doing the panel yesterday, for those of you, he's like, when everyone's zig, you zag. Like you always have to be creative. You always have to be thinking ahead and yeah, just work with your accountant, know your numbers, feel confident about making those decisions. And when we do that, taking a building like a $60,000 infrastructure is not as scary as it looks like. I think that was the most empowering thing that we went through in the last two years, like as we evolved into this thing. Those business stage appropriate decisions. So understanding your context, if you're a new grower and you don't have well-established markets and you don't have a forecast that you know you can pay it back, or you don't have three months of buffer capital that if you don't have it, then don't do it. You can, but that's what at risk is about. You got to make that decision, understand where are you sitting on the risk side. But also me and Mikey started this business three years ago, but we've been farming for more than a decade. I knew how to operate this. Like we've been owning this property for two years and this farm is two years old, but we've been farming for 12, 13 years. You know, we started as interns, then apprentices, then workers. Like we worked at farms, we managed farms. We came into this with like our growing experience dialed in. I think sometimes this industry feels like, which is amazing, like it's so approachable, but we still have to act. This is our profession. Like we are professionals. We took the time, like you go to uni, like you do a legal apprenticeship. Like we worked hard and we made a lot of mistakes along the way. And we were smart to put money aside and we were, you know, to get enough experience before we went on and did our own thing. And then like, I can grow a great cucumber. I know how to do it with my eyes closed in a way. These structures on their own are a huge risk mitigator. So like they, you know, for flooding, for rain, for hail, for extreme sun, we can control that. And then diversity, diversity, good soil practices, you know, good partnerships with markets. We have insurance, but not crop insurance. Yeah. And also like what you were saying before, like working closely with our accountant and to understand our forecast, we forecast and hold aside certain amount of capital at certain times of the year where it's going to be forcibly less income, more income and play around. That's to mitigate risk. So yeah, like wet spring, made sure we had X amount of cash left aside because we weren't sure what was going to happen. Essentially. Should we keep walking a bit? Yeah. Attention, Australian farmers. I have really good news here. As of now, the market gardeners masterclass, the course that I teach with all the expertise that's there for you is fully fundable through the FHA. So that's great. It's an amazing resource. You guys can take advantage of that. Just click on the link here, fill out the form to see if you're eligible. And if you are, this might be the game changer that you've been waiting for. This is another tunnel we actually put up only, I think October. So it's pretty fresh. We had a number of cat tunnels here, which we've moved over there. That was part of our late winter projects to move them to get this up. And we're pumped. We're super pumped. Tomatoes are, we always saw the potential in the market. There seems to be only a couple of other growers that seem to be growing mixed, mixed coloured varieties at scale. So it was definitely a niche that we saw and we could maximise it. We also have some great partners that basically set up front the season. We'll take X amount from you guys, which enabled us to have the confidence to say, no worries, we'll launch it up. So we've got- I think it's just another note of kind of like our wholesale approach. We, where's Mark? Let's embarrass him. Where is he? Hi Mark. Mark is, besides a great friend, he's also our person in Natura, which is one of our biggest partners this year in growing, in financing some of a lot of capital investments that we do need. But also we sit down twice, three times a year and have a very particular crop plan together, meaning that like I know in advance what Mark's going to take every week and what's the price for that. And we set that up in advance. And then they're very understanding that if we can't supply, they go elsewhere, but he's committed to take those numbers from us no matter what throughout the year, which is, I think for us, like as a young family and a young and small business, like that gives me a lot of security that I'm happy with in this stage of our business and our lives, so. If I can say something about this, like in my experience, like wholesale is a very risky and it's kind of a business where you're competing against big act and small sometimes just not, but when you have something like that, it's different. When you have a commitment, then it becomes a partnership. Then it makes a lot of sense. Yeah. And that's really, it's really a game changer in my opinion. I agree. To have this kind of like commitment, okay, we'll grow X amount, it's pre-sold. Look, it's still risky. I mean, we haven't- But at least you have an established, you're not going to be undercut. I think the hardest thing for us is to understand what's going to the season look like. And that gives us like a really beautiful baseline that we know we tick that off, yeah. And the fact that they're also willing to help us with infrastructure is huge, I think. It's a real win-win. Well, that's what that conversation on the panel yesterday, we talked about supply chains for small-scale farms. And I think traditionally those sort of partnerships haven't been a part of the conversation a lot. And I'm really glad to see, like I said before, we've had a great one with Edie Grosser over the years. Again, I think you guys need to be, yeah, I think highlight a little bit more as partners for people to grow their businesses, certainly in the early days when they are looking for less risky options, because there is some stability in those partnerships, which you can't find elsewhere. I don't know if there's any questions essentially, but the vast, probably 70% of these are grafted. It's our first year probably grafting at scale. So we grafted probably nearly 2000 plants, some lost, but there's probably 1500 grafted plants in there. We're super stoked with how they're going at the moment. And I guess what I can say about grafting is in the toolbox, the small-scale farms, when we don't have super high-tech greenhouses, maybe we'll get there, that'd be super good. I think grafting is an amazing technique, relatively cost-effective to be able to increase yield and disease resistance. So that's something that we're investing in because we always found that we'd kind of skyrocket, you get to a point, a lot of peak, and at some point you notice plants get tired, disease sets in, and then you can lose sometimes 20, 30% of your potential crop simply because it didn't have the gas to keep it going. So we're really stoked about that. And then the two other things I'm working on at the moment that I'm feeling really positive about is we're building a really strong foliar programme and seeing incredible results from foliar fertiliser and also our irrigation management. So irrigation in the past, I've been a little haphazard, and now I'm trying to do things like pulse irrigate, even though we've got our irrigation on wifi, but I haven't built a programme for it, I have to open it up, but I can essentially irrigate from the phone, but already noticing plant behaviour changing from slight alterations in how we irrigate. So that's just two quick things to keep in mind. Yeah, for your own tomatoes. Mike, I would also say, sometimes growers don't think about it, but the choice of the cultivar really plays a big difference. Yes. For the rootstock or the... For the sign also, because some tomato plants have been hybridised and cultivated for resistance and some not. And so if you take an old heirloom and you put it there, it's not gonna be the same. Yeah, and even on that fact, in fact, there's access, in Australia at least, Smallscale got access to, say, even a variety of rootstocks. The States, I think you have more rootstock varieties, but also be wary of that as well. So a lot of the rootstocks are designed for large greenhouses, which have the ability to crop steer, so steer a crop one way or the other. So they can even breed rootstocks to be way more vegetative than you could probably handle to steer otherwise. So there's actually a really good one in Australia called Kaiser, which has been bred to be more generative. So you get the best of a vegetative strong plant, but you don't have to worry about trying to steer it the other way. So it actually is quite, I think, user-friendly for market gardeners of our scale and our, I think, limited technology for playing around, if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, Kaiser. You can get it from Activista. It's a great variety to do. I know, but honestly, James' masterclass was, is really a great lesson on grafting. The lesson's great. It was a bit high tech for us in the sense we didn't have all of it. So we did a really janky version. We didn't have all of it, isn't it? We did a really janky version and pulled it off with a bit of stress, but we pulled it off. So the same, the principles... We followed the protocol, but just altered the infrastructure. And if I could give you a grade about the tomatoes, if I may, on a scale of zero to 10, I would give you 12. Oh! Yay! All right, this is like... Mikey, that's it. Good students. **** yeah. No, honestly, like this is really well done. That's it. Hard distinction. Actually, you said that this is your first time doing a grafting. Yeah. Have you got an idea yet at this stage what kind of disease you saw before at this age and you're not seeing now? We haven't grafted for disease resistance. We don't have... This is the first year we're growing tomatoes here. Like we haven't seen any soil-borne diseases. It's more as a preventative and also for yield increase. We do have slight pressure on two things. We have russet mite pressure, but russet mite pressure would... That wouldn't... Like the graft wouldn't resist from that. That's recommended just a regular sulfur spray. And the other one we do have every now and then is powdery mildew. And like powdery mildew has got to do with often like cell strength of the plant can be a way to resist that. So having a strong plant, but having a plant that's strong and healthy. And the other one is in having, I say, a foliar program. So we spray, we try to get a nice amount of silica out there, good amount of calcium on the plants. They're kind of the two. Fans could help also. We just got powering. Yeah, we just got power. Fans will, you know, and again, preventive also, because you never know, it could be cloudy for months and you're like... Absolutely. Yeah. So we're fortunate enough, we've just got powering. And so we'll be getting fans up in the next week or two. So absolutely. Are you going to put them up in the vent or like low down? At the top to kind of circulate there. It's kind of almost at the trellis height. That's about it. Any questions before we skedaddle? One more? We want to do sap analysis this year, but based upon a few consults with agronomists and then also just, like they say, you know, what's the saying? The great farmer's footsteps are the best fertilizer. Is that how it goes? I think it is. And like over the years, I've had a couple of conversations with agronomists who have been like, no, you should be fine on that. And I picked up earlier that it wasn't. So you being out there and being aware of it, for example, no matter what goes on every year, I get a deficiency of magnesium every single year, which has got to do with photosynthesis. So you're going to get a stronger plant. So this year was the first year that I went in and it was like, I'm going to hit it early with a nice foliar. I've done two foliars and I've already seen the vast majority are fine. And there's one culprit variety, which no matter what, it seems to just, it's hungry. It's real hungry. Are you using a, what kind of spray? Are you using a, I only have the word in French, but like a vaporisator? Is it like a- We have two. We've got a battery mister. Yeah. And that's really good for obviously, it's good for smaller spaces and also you don't want to have fumes. But last year I found, like I find foliars being really helpful. Certainly in the early years when you haven't, your soil hasn't become as mature. You're dealing with a bit more imbalances. So we bought a, we bought like a jet mister powered. So it's, it's powered by petrol and it blasts. So it basically blows air and mist at the same time. And that's awesome for doing, you know, a big field of brassicas or you want to, you know, blast some zucchinis and might having some powdery mildew coming on. And that's really, that's really efficient. It's probably, it's easily twice as fast as the, as the battery one. So that's just context. I try to do that more outside, but every now and then I get lazy and I blast it in there. Just hold my breath. Is it out so that we can see it? Yeah, I'll pull, I'll pull both out. I'd like to see it. Yeah, I'll pull them both out. We work with NTS. Yeah. It's NTS and you've got, and Graeme Sait has his own podcast, which is, is his incredible podcast. It's like giving out best free information out there. And you know, you listen to it and you might be like, oh, okay, how effective is it? And I found it to be incredibly effective. And also the sizes that he offers, so you can get, you know, it can be a thousand litre shuttle, or it can be down to a five litres. And most of the time, five litres is even too much for our scale, but that's still, you know, 80 bucks for a bottle and you can go through a season. This is, I don't know, our last stop. And then maybe if we have some questions and I think we should switch the groups, but we grow a tiny amount of dahlias on the farm, mainly because I'm obsessed. It's just, I mean, if we had more, we're not growing it as much because we're a bit far and we're lacking some outlets and it's a bit harder to transport with the vegetables. When we used to do farmer's market, it was always on our top seller and our top, and still today, this patch still hits our like five most profitable crops. We sell them only to grocery stores. So they're all only wholesaled as a single bunch, no bouqueting, just pick them, bunch them and sell. So they definitely pay their real estate really well. And I wish we could grow more. Other than that, we are doing small things like strawberries or golden berries or blueberries to kind of have our direct customer a little bit of an edge to offer them something that they can't get elsewhere. But yeah, Mikey, anything you want to add? Jay, anything you want to add? Mikey, anything else on? JM, anything you think we should talk about? I would say that it's amazing that, you know, small scale farming, we share, you share your tricks, what you do. It's amazing. Most big farms, you know, they would never do that. They would never have other growers on their farm. And I just think that that's such a, it's just so amazing. And this is a beautiful, this is a beautiful farm. I see a lot of money everywhere. Hey Kez, what's the, like what would you say the labor out? On the farm? We are four full timers. Four, like, Raya's home. So me and Mikey, well, everything kind of changed when she was born. I think that's a huge transition that I wish we could talk about more because I got like the biggest slap of my life. Like farming and having a baby and being a woman that like loves being outside and suddenly, like as much as I'm feminist, like it's still a, I'm a mom. So that is like completely altered our life. And I think you spoke to it a lot that having kids and having now, like she has to go, she has to take a bath at six. So at six, we have to be in there in the bath. So, and up until then, me and Mikey's like bums up 12 hour days and we can't do that anymore. So we, so Jay is full time with us and he takes a lot of the load of our parenting. And then we've got every season we bring in for summer two full timers. Our dream is definitely to have full year rounders because for us, like the team is, for me personally, like the team is, that's why I farm. Like I love my team. We have lunch every day together. We cook a warm meal for everyone. Like we live out there and like they're our family. Like, and I'm, I wasn't born here. Like it's very, it's a very important part of my life that we have good people on the farm and we run this as a family. So cool. Thank you. What's the feeling of being here? What's the vibe that you guys want to kind of see here? Kez and I, I grew up in the city and Kez grew up semi-urban, peri-urban. And when I have people coming out of the farm, I think Kez and I have grown to become incredibly passionate about rural living. There's something incredible about living outdoors by a forest running water and also food culture. People think about food culture being something that's in the city and we're trying to take back that narrative and bring food culture back to the farms because when people come out here and they have that energy of being out in nature and seeing food grow, people come alive and we see that constantly. And I think people coming yesterday, there was an energy, there was a hum and that's what we want to have. We want to have the energy coming and seeing beautiful crops, seeing an organized professional farm, seeing abundance, seeing a yield and more and more, I think as our business develops and grows and become more professional and better at what we're doing, I see that resonance. I see people coming in and there's just, there's a hum when they come onto a property that shows and demonstrates that. And yeah, it's welcoming and I think authenticity is something that we really value when we think about the values of our business and being authentic and welcoming and show things how they are. And we have farm lunch every day. It's a warm meal and whoever comes in know that they need to come at one o'clock so they join for lunch. That sort of, yeah, open house, I think in all of its aspects. For me, what I see that's really cool is it's a mix of bootstrap because this is obviously bootstrapped in a way, meaning that you've started with what was there and then you're slowly building up and it's not like a lot of money coming in and setting this up. And it's professional. Like when your eye goes onto the crop and how it's grown, it's like top notch and it's a good mixture. You know, it's a good mixture. And it's probably like, it's gonna be like most growers. That's how they're gonna start. But not everyone has that next gear of how to grow amazing crops the right way. Do you guys see that that's something that needs to be, you know, that needs to happen, that young growers have more professional skill set under their belt when they start? Yeah, without a doubt. I think, look, and it was so interesting having you around because obviously you can often forget where you've come from. And you can forget, like we're having a conversation on the panel yesterday and all sorts of stuff and you forget that we're, I'm here because of people like yourself that share this information visually via your course, your YouTubes. And so now the growers that have shared these things, that it's now easy for me to visualize what I want to see and how I want the farm to be. And I think when we started off, we had to go and travel the world and to be on all different farms to be able to see what production could be or see how it feels like the pace of work. So I think the fact that there's so much information, there's incredible information out there on online courses and being able to visit farms like we did yesterday, having a farm visit. Suddenly you can see what production potential could be. And then you can, you have a vision, you have a goal, you have a trajectory of where you want to get to. And I think we have, we have a strong vision of how we want to have the business and to have it in a professional way. And like you said, you bootstrap the early years and you grow, you grow. And you just, yeah, you try to have that, what you said yesterday, the homework five-year goals. I got to sit down and work on that a bit more. Where do you want to be in five years? What's the farm in year five? And how does it look like? What's the, what's the, what's the sketch up? What's the number? You know, all these metrics. Yeah. It's easier, it's a hard exercise. But if you can design, if you can work the farms towards where you want it to be in five years and take it steps by steps. You get there. So there's one thing that I want to talk about guys. And it's this concept of scaling through skills instead of acres. You know, I've always said, you know, big, better, not bigger. Yeah. And that's been my philosophy and that's been pretty much what I've done all my career. But do you guys, are you guys in agreement with this? Does that resonate? We, I'll tell you a story. I think in our early years, we saw a lot of, a lot of growers, which I don't know where I heard the term, but they call it triage farming. Triage farming. They'd get out there and they'd find a massive paddock and you'd plant out as many things as you can. And the harvest day would come and you'd run through and you'd pick out here and there. And every single time we saw the scale of those farms starting off as like, you know, they went larger. The quality wasn't there and they couldn't get that. The weeds are there. Yeah. And I think that resonated because we saw so many of those farming projects over their early years, visiting farms. We were like, we don't want that. We know that, you know, having a tight run operation, intimate with good skills, we wouldn't need to have, you know, fields that large to produce high quality crops. And I think that's always resonated with us. And as I said, we're quite far down our journey. And I feel I have the confidence to grow quite a large farm. But I think the fact that we've kept in these early years, the farm tight and small and focused, it's been a big part of, I think, our success of getting our name out there as a farm that has quality and has consistency. Our crops tell a lot of that story because we grow over summer a lot of high value crops that we could make a larger income in a small amount of space, but they do require a lot more skills. Fertility, grafting, pruning. Yeah, you're growing the tomatoes on two heads, two liters, grafting the tomatoes. Yeah. So, I mean, that whole plot could have been zucchinis or could have been broccoli and they would have, I would have needed 10 times the size or I can just grow grafted, you know, specialty tomatoes. But they do take time. So, I need to ask you this question because a lot of my work has been trying to pass down what I've learned and what I've acquired as skills, especially at my farm, but also at Ferme de Quatre Tins, which was a really special project. I know that you guys are master class students. Has the class been helpful for you in your journey? If you want to say a few words about it. Yeah. Absolutely. I say to all new growers, casting the net wide information and learning as much as you can is invaluable. Like we said, back in the early day, you'd have to potentially travel the world to acquire high quality education. And I don't think that's the scenario now. You can see growers pretty quickly understanding the theory and concept of things very quickly. Obviously getting the field practice is different, but, you know, for example, the grafted tomatoes, that was a, we opened up the master class, looked at that and very quickly got the founding principles, how to do it, the roadmap. And the protocol. We followed that protocol. And had great success. That's great. I'm happy because, you know, for me, that's a lot of work that I put into it, but beyond the work that I put into the master class, it's like, I was hopeful of what I'm seeing. You know, I wanted that. I wanted to have a tool that would take the, come in people's family and help them become better growers because it doesn't solve everything. You still need to hustle and you still need to figure out markets and there's all, but at least if you get the crop right. You have a dependable base. I feel like I can go into the masterclass if there's a crop I'm not sure of, I'm not happy with, and I can have even the technical sheet and have reliable information that I can go from, which I think is really important because there's a lot of bullshit out there. Yeah. It's the YouTube Academy is not so great in many ways. Yeah. That's one of the problems that I see is like, you can, you can really come to a farm and talk to a grower and see that he's been on, he's been poaching all these things from different farms and sometimes it's good, but sometimes they don't connect well, you know? Yeah. It's finding, as I say, it's finding the right, the right methods, the right methods for you. But yeah, having a good, a good protocol and a good, a good lesson plan for all these is, it's been invaluable for us with, yeah, we often, often go back to the same books they have that are high quality books or the same online resources and they're invaluable. How about crop planning? You talked about your crop planning, you know, you understood the steps, you do the steps, you're getting results out of it. Are you happy with crop planning? Is that a big part of your? It's a huge part of our success, I think. I think crop planning and, and team management and task management is kind of like the, the heart. The heart. We do that over many years in a very similar methods to what you talked about yesterday, but it's in like very, a lot of bits and pieces. So I've got an Excel here and then I've got a farm app here and then I have the Google calendar here and I manually do all the work, which works, but it definitely is a skill. Looking forward that you try the heirloom. I'm very excited about winter because I don't nail winter planning and I'm, you'll be, you'll be excited. I'm sure you will be. I'll definitely have a look at that. So guys, in conclusion here, you know, for me coming down to Australia, I had heard about you guys, but I obviously, I didn't know you. And I just feel that it's so much serendipity that I landed here and I'm so happy. I'm so happy that I get to meet you and thank you for the warm welcome into your house. Seeing, you know, your community, your friends here. I just, I just feel that the movement, not to put it on your shoulders, that's not what I'm doing here, but the movement is in good hands when there's good people that are leading it. And I'm just so happy that I met you all. Thanks so much. Yeah. And for us as well, so special having you here. We were joking yesterday that your original market gardener book is the dirtiest book in our show. Of course, yeah, we carried it around for, for many years in the early stage, referencing stuff and then to suddenly have you here on the farm and to have, you know, to have such kind words from you is, we'll be, we'll be carrying that as inspiration for a while longer. Well, wishing you all the best in your agrarian adventures, wherever it leads you. And I'm wishing everyone that's listening a super good time. That was a great moment that I had here.