Why researchers are sinking 3-story towers in Lake Superior

Running today in Lake Superior near Duluth, an interesting science experiment, a major science experiment, including bringing in a ship from the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute called the Neil Armstrong that I think had never traversed into these waters before to put big towers down into the lake to look for ghost particles. What's happening? Why are they doing this? Let's bring in somebody who knows a little bit more because he wrote a pretty long article about it in the Duluth News Tribune. And that's Jimmy Lovren. Thanks for taking time with us today. Yeah, absolutely, thanks for having me, and I'll do my best to explain this complicated topic. Well, and what you really spell out in your article too is trying to figure out the why of it. There's some mysteries there about why they're doing this. But let's start with what they're doing, and this involves the Department of Defense, DARPA, which is an advanced research project, along with the University of Minnesota Duluth. Tell us about what they're doing today, putting these sensors down. I mean, where they're putting them, I know they're going deep. Sure. Yeah. So the research vessel, Neil Armstrong from Woods Hole, as you mentioned, made its first Great Lakes voyage and reached Duluth just the other day. And it's loading up these 30 foot towers that are kind of strapped with with big, you know, they look like ornaments on it, but they're photo sensors that pick up little faint light. And the hope is that when they put these towers, five of them, three stories tall each. In 700 feet, 700 foot deep Lake Superior, a few miles off of Two Harbors, that this beam of neutrinos that has been shot from Chicago every 1.2 seconds for two decades now, that they'll intercept some of these ghost-like particles which give off just a faint light if they collide with another atom. And, um, their hope is that these, these ornaments on these, these, uh, structures will pick up that faint light and they'll be able to kind of, well, if that's successful, they'll be the first time, um, you know, a artificial neutrino is detected in water. Yeah. So that's kind of what they're trying to, trying to do. Um, we should point out that research here. Yeah, we should point out Jimmy too, that these is, is you. Display well in your article, these are particles that are being shot through the earth and then through the lake. And so with the curvature of the earth from Chicago to Lake Superior, it's going underground about 500 miles. And so they're basically seeing if these particles can be detected after traveling underground that far and then into the water. That's right, that's right. The neutrinos are, you've got several going through your head right now, I guess, is what I've been told. They're coming off the sun all the time, and they've used this very similar method. Actually, these sensors came from a project in the Mediterranean that did that in the Mediterranean Sea. Now they're trying to put these artificial ones that have been pointed at northern Minnesota for the last two decades. Okay. Yeah. So basically, so they will see then. If these they know that they're there because they're being shot out from Chicago traveling under the earth. This is to see if these things can detect them in the water. And again, what we started out with is you're trying to answer the question of, well, why are the researchers and the U.S. Department of Defense trying to find this out? And what did you discover? Yeah, so there's, again, this is the Department of Defense's research arm is sponsoring this And there's some ideas out there that... Detectors may be able to be used to detect neutrinos shed by nuclear reactors. So maybe you could put one up and figure out if... You know, a country or something has got a nuclear program that you don't know about. Maybe you'd be able to pick that up. In this case, you know, the idea that maybe a nuclear-powered submarine would be able to... Right, that's one potential use of this technology, is could it pick up nuclear submarines? Right, but the Department of Defense was very clear that they're just kind of trying to do basic research here. They don't have an outcome or an application in mind. Um, but, uh, I think when you look out there and see what other researchers are saying about the possibilities, um, those defense applications become clear, but they're saying this is just basic research. We want to see if it's possible. And again, this is the most common particle, um, in our universe. And so it also answers some basic science questions that, um, are, you know. They've been hard. It's been hard. They're very hard to detect. And so there's a lot unknown about these yet. They're the most abundant. Yeah. Common particle, but difficult to detect and underwater. So what they're saying is that we want to find out if we can even detect these first and then figure out what the application of that is, if we can detect them. But as you mentioned, one of the theories out there is it could be a nuclear submarine detection. Or what are the other options that you've heard that it could be used for? Are there other potential ideas floating around out there? I think the most that I've heard is basically being able to detect evidence of a nuclear reactor because they shed neutrinos. That's what I've heard in terms of application, but I think a lot of the scientists are just excited to... To get a look at these any way that they can and start answering basic questions of the universe. Okay. Yeah. Well, they're out there then today is when they're out putting these towers 700 feet down into Lake Superior. They're expected to put the first one out there today and they'll spend a week or so placing the other four. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, then how long did they expect that this research would continue? Yeah. So the beam turns off in February. Um, it's going to be re-aimed at South Dakota where they're, um, building an underground, uh, in the Black Hills and old gold mine, they're building a new sensor down there. And so this has been pointed at the Soudan mine underground mine, um, where there was a detector 20 years ago. Um, and then they replaced that one with one up by Voyagers National Park here in Minnesota. And so that's about to be retired as Well, so they've got... Just a few months here before this two decades of beams aimed at Minnesota comes to an end. So they're feeling rushed. Yeah, and winter won't affect that, even though the lake's iced over. This is 700 feet down, so the water's colder is all. Yep, yep, yep. So they're trying to beat the ice, get it out there before anything happens, and then they'll recover them come spring. Yeah. All right, Jimmy, thank you. A fascinating story. And one that'll be fun to follow up on to see what they discover and if they admit what they've discovered and what they'll do with it. All right, Jimmy, appreciate it from the Duluth News Tribune.