'France has some of the cleanest electricity in the world, but we're not using enough of it'

Global carbon pollution is said to be projected to fall this year, if only by a tiny fraction, less than half of a percent. Scientists say, however, that the cause is not due to positive changes in the fight against climate change, but rather because of oil insecurity. ...due to the war on Iran and between Russia and Ukraine, sending supplies into turmoil. As the UN Climate Conference continues in Turkey, our energy systems are being questioned, notably electricity. Turkey says it wants to electrify 35% of the global economy in the next decade or less. But while an electrified economy generally means a move away from fossil fuels, Turkey itself still relies on coal for about one third of its electricity. So what does this all mean? Well, to bring us their insight, we're joined by Professor Atz. That's Yance Paul-Parris, a senior expert at the New Energy Coalition, which brings a number of leading fuel companies together. Thierry Bross, thanks so much for your time. Can I start simply by asking you, when Turkey speaks of this electrification of the global economy, what exactly does that mean? Good morning. Well, I think Turkey wants to be very pragmatic here. I mean, we've seen many COPs and they've all failed, if I can say so. And so Turkey understands that energy transition will not happen unless you have electrification. And so what they are saying is electrification first. You're right. It doesn't mean clean electricity. I mean, that's another story. But electrification first, and then we will do the cleaning of the electricity and the molecules. I think this is a very pragmatic way. So if I try to imagine what they mean, then basically changing our cars to be electrical run cars, so less pollution on our streets and different transport and industries like that. Do you think their target of 35% by the year 2035 is achievable? No, I don't think so. But I think the beauty of policy people is to set targets. And if those targets are reasonable, may not be achievable, but reasonable, then I think it's a good thing. I mean, if you look at data, the country that has the most education is Switzerland with 28%. In France, we are around 21%. China is around 22%. So what they are saying is let's go and We're going to electrify our economy as fast as we can. As you stated, I mean... Move away from your gas boiler to an electricity heat pump. Move away from your old car to an electric car, et cetera, et cetera. And this will help the whole process. What we want is those CO2 emissions to go down as fast as possible, and so far they haven't. What's hampering or preventing this switch? Is it the simple individual cost of changing the systems? Is that something governments should look at? Well, I think we failed to do this as governments and as people. Yes, I mean, look at electric cars. I mean, if you look at Europe in particular, we've seen an energy crisis back in 2021, 2022 with the weaponization of Russian gas. We could have then pushed for electric cars. We haven't. So I think it's a question to government. Now, let's do it. And interestingly enough, remember that the European Commission has put a paper on... on the 17th of July about electrification. I think everybody now understands that the pragmatic way of doing this energy transition is via electrification. Not very silly, if I may say so, targets like we had in Europe back a few years ago about hydrogen. It's not going to work. Electrification may work, and that's why it's important to go through this route. When we look at our energy insecurity, rather, notably due to the wars that we've seen taking place, do you think that that will have motivation, if you like, for countries to switch towards more renewable energies? And could they, in fact, become independent in energy if they did so? Well, I think what we have to understand today is not only energy security, but also affordability. And unfortunately, I disagree with what you said earlier. I mean, what we are seeing is in China, in India and in countries like Germany, we are seeing people that are trying to access insecure molecules, oil and gas, can't find them. And so therefore, they are reverting to coal and coal emits more. So I think 2026, unfortunately, we'll see another growth in CO2 emission because countries will have reverted to coal on top of renewable, but coal for energy security. Plus, I remind you that during a war, you use a lot of jet fuel, jet kerosene, and I don't think so. So therefore, that CO2 emission in 2026 will go down, unfortunately, for climate. Okay, so that microdip of 0.4% presented by scientists called into question. But when we look, I see the advantage of moving to an electrified economy. But let's look more closely then at the clean electrification. You know, where are we on that? You know, you mentioned France sounding quite low on that. What's the reluctance? And are there certain areas of the world that could move there faster? You're right. I mean, clean electricity is provided by nuclear, wind, solar and hydro. So that's what we need to put. And again, the real problem here is affordability. So what is the least costly for consumers? Because this is where things are sticky, if I can say. And in France, as I stated, we have one of the cleanest electricity in the world, but we are not using it enough. I mean, electricity demand in France and in Europe in the last 25 years has gone down because there were, I would say, political motivation. to degrowth the energy sector. And so what we need to say is people use electricity as much as you can and produce electricity for producers, for utilities, produce it as clean as possible because it's going to be the energy transition. I mean, if we're looking at Europe, we need air conditioning, and this air conditioning can only be provided with electricity and this electricity can only be done with clean, decarbonized electricity. As I stated, nuclear, wind, solar and hydro. And if we don't do it this way, then there isn't going to be an energy transition. Thierry Bross, we'll have to leave it there. But thank you so much for your time and bringing us your insight on the situation there. Very much appreciated.