Tony Casillas talks trade deadline, Cowboys defense | Free4All+

Come into Free-for-All Plus, Mike Ducey, Sam Gannon, and College Football Hall of Famer Tony Casillas joins us right off the top. Hey, what's up, guys? Good to see you. Thanks for coming in. Looking nice. Thanks for dressing up for me, Mike. Well, you know. Appreciate that. He doesn't always do that. I unbuttoned the top button, and then I kind of cinched up the tie at the last second anyway. Looking sharp, man. As always. Is this your first time in this particular studio? You've been in here once or twice before. Yeah, I think this is probably the most contemporary. Yeah, I've been in here a few times. Great. I mean, the lighting's great, and you guys are great. So, yeah, it's great to be in the studio and do this with you. Tony, I wanted to start by congratulating you. You'll receive the Legends Award from the Bronco Nagurski Awards, which honor the Defensive Player of the Year. December 7th in Charlotte. Of course, you were great at OU, so that's cool to pick up some hardware like that, huh? It is. It's nice to be remembered for your body of work. I think that it's what it represents and it's interesting because Jacob Rodriguez got the Bronco Nagurski last year and I get it I'm getting a legends award and they you know they did you know it posted something and he had exactly the same mustache I had but mine was 40 years ago so we got something there going right coming back Yeah. We'll be right back. I think his was a little bit more groomed, Yeah. more than mine, but yeah, it's great. I'm very humbled to be able to be the recipient of that award this year. All right, we're going to talk a lot of Cowboys, of course, trade deadline day in the NFL. There were some big deals done, the Kirk Cousins from the Raiders to the Vikings most notable, but the Cowboys stood pat, as it were. Jerry said they weren't going to do anything. They ended up not doing anything. Most of the speculation about a possible trade had revolved around receiver George Pickens. Of course, he had an all-pro year last season, has not been as effective this year. The Cowboys signed him to that one-year deal, so he's up after this season, currently out with an injury. He has been criticized at times by the coaching staff for certain areas of his play this year, but Cowboys keep him, Jerry wanting to stay relevant, obviously, and keep the fan base. Hoping Dallas two games behind the Giants in the division right now with eight games to play. Coach Brian Schottenheimer yesterday was asked if he had hoped that there would be some additions made to this roster. I'm very comfortable in our team. I think, you know, the heart of these guys, the way they've shown that they can perform, we just have to be more consistent in that performance. Okay, Cowboys did make one roster move today with running back Tyler Goodson out, injured. The team signs Kendre Miller, former Saints running back and TCU Horned Frog. Ran for 159 yards and two touchdowns. Caught passes for 217 yards this year for New Orleans. The Saints had released him earlier in the week. Again, our guest Tony Casillas here tonight. So we talk about trade deadline day and the Cowboys not making a move. Guys, I would have traded Pickens and I tweeted something to that effect earlier today. I think they're going to either not want to re-sign him at the end of the year or he's not going to re-sign with want to re-sign with them. So my thing would be why not trade him? They must not have been able to get what they wanted for him. But what say you? I think you're exactly right about what are you going to get for George Pickens and I thought Kansas City, there's some teams that are one of the different, another wide receiver and it depends on what it costs to play poker and I think that obviously it makes them a much better team, but I think at times, as you mentioned, there's things that he may not or may not do. Blocking is one of them. But I think it makes their offense validate their big play potential. No doubt about that. They're a much better, more explosive team. But as you mentioned, Mike, at the top, there are two games behind New York and the Giants, Sam. So I think that there's this belief that maybe they have a... A small chance to maybe go on a run. I mean, everything's going to be predicated on this weekend, obviously, against San Francisco, which I think it's a big game for Brian Schottenheimer as far as his fate as a coach here. So, again, I just think the value that they were willing to give George Pickens and the team wanting to trade for him wasn't there, and it felt like, hey, let's keep them together. And as you mentioned, after this year, he's a free agent. It's interesting, they're kind of caught between I mean, they're kind of in the middle, right? Buyers, sellers. What do you think about Pickens? You okay with him hanging on to him? I am for now. I guess it's just because of the state of this franchise and where they're at. I mean, I don't think any of us can sit here right now and say that they're going to be contenders for anything, even as bad as this division is. Will he ultimately be on this team beyond this season? Doesn't feel like it, but I don't really have a problem with them keeping him right now. They come off of this Colts game, which is a win that felt kind of like a loss. They had a couple of significant injuries, for one thing, coming out of it. Goodson in the back, who I just mentioned, who'd really started to contribute. Jake Ferguson now out for several games as well, ironically, right after he'd had a touchdown. reception in that game. So even Jerry Jones said it was there were mixed emotions kind of after after the win. But does the defense encourage you at all, Tony, after that kind of performance? I know it's a bad offense that they're facing, but they did make some plays. They did get to the quarterback on occasion. They did force some turnovers. There a glimmer of hope on that side of the ball right now? Well, I think when you look at this defense, I mean, they played against a lot You're struggling. We can talk about the teams that they struggled against defensively and ultimately ended up losing the game. And so it is encouraging. Corbin Williams, obviously, he has really played really well here lately. I mean, obviously with big plays and, you know, they've gotten, you know, even, you know, you hold Jonathan Taylor to 59 yards. I mean, that's the biggest comment. He's a more dynamic running back. So there's a lot of positive things. There's the negative things. There's the big play. And I hate to, it sounds like I pick on this guy, Deron Bland. I don't know what happened to him, but just the big, the chunk yards and giving up the big plays and the penalties, and we'll get into that. I mean, there's this mentality, you know, during the week, it's a mental preparation. It's a mental to be locked in and understand the nuances, understand the opponent, but where you're constantly negating big plays on both sides of the ball and the defensive side of the ball, You know, I don't think you should feel good about this win. I mean, I think it's a win. I think everyone's much better than losing on the road. But there were so many things in that game, the mental errors, that just said, look, guys, we shouldn't feel good about that. Yeah, a win's a win. And there's no such thing as a stress-free win for this team. I guess my whole thing is playing devil's advocate, if I may, Tony, for a second about this defense. Please, please do that. Please do that, please do that. Is this where we're at, though, with the state of this franchise, that we're gauging improvement on this defense when they're playing such bad teams because they don't have a win against a team with a winning record? I just feel like you mentioned there are glimmers of hope or signs that they could be changing the direction of this defense as a whole, but the bad continues to outweigh the good things. And heading into week 10, when we're hearing a lot from the coaches, well, we're still figuring things out. We have to execute. Well, shouldn't you be doing that right now? And I was just thinking, when you mentioned that, this is week 10, and we're still talking about the things that the problems they had last year seeped into this year when we hired Christian Parker. We went out and spent the money on different players and still... Talking about the same thing in week 10. I mean, these are the things that should be. You shouldn't digress. I mean, I know there's certain nuances of the game defensively. When you've got a new coordinator, you've got different players and so forth. But you shouldn't have these same problems. And certainly the mental errors that this team follows them every week. Every week. Yeah. It's always something. It's not, as I mentioned, you go into a week and you say, hey, maybe this is a lamed up team. You play a team like the Colts. But as I mentioned, I don't know how many times I've been in here doing this show and talked to you. It's like everyone gets ready to play the Cowboys. Yeah. I mean, unfortunately, people don't want to hear that, but they do. That's the truth. That's what they're hanging out. They're just Super Bowl type people. And so it's like, what can we do to be whatever the real is this week or on social media, whatever the meme is. Right, right, right. It seems like that's kind of where we're at right now. Yeah, yeah. All right. Right, and And so much made of Schottenheimer's approach. The DeMarvian overshown thing happened. You played for Jimmy. And this is unfair to ask this. Sorry, coach, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Anyway. What would Jimmy have done with that DeMarvian overshown? His ass probably wouldn't have been on the plane. And I know that, again, first of all, the social media after the game, like, hey, you know, and I love that. I think it's exciting to get excited about that. I mean, what was he thinking? And the guy's inactive, and we talked about this before we started the show, is he looked pretty healthy. He looked pretty quick coming out on the field and celebrating, but you're inactive. You're on the bench, stay on the bench, stay on the sidelines. There's no place for you to run on the field and celebrate. What if he re-injured himself or did something wonky, you know? Yeah, just something funky like that. It just seems to me this is another example of... How does this happen? And again, there's material, social media material for everyone to play on this. And look, again. Overshawn has some value, but I mean, that's an example you've got to set for this team. It's like, this is ridiculous. What are you thinking of? Jimmy always said, you know what? And I hate to go back in my place. I'd much rather take a smart guy than someone that has all this ability because ultimately, that's what is really penalizing this team now is their intellect when it comes to making mistakes. And that's just a clear example, Don. And maybe it's because he went to Texas. I just have a quick follow-up because we were talking about this last night, Tony. Mike doesn't have a problem with it. I'm not saying I definitely have a problem with it, but what do you make of Coach Schottenheimer's post-game speeches? A lot of fans, if you go on social media, you'll probably see they're tired of seeing that. What do you make of them? I think it's great, but let's not have all the cameras and let's do what we need to do There's a place like, okay, we're going to do this for social media and this be part of our platform. But after that, I'm going to dog cuss whoever I need to talk to in that room. And, again, guys want to be coached. They want to be criticized. I mean, this is a game of taking the criticism. And certainly when you see reels like that and giving game balls, I love it. The time and place for this game, I just don't think it bodes very well when the perception of it. All right, let's shift gears now. You, of course, are an all-time Oklahoma great. Jason Witten's first game as OU's interim offensive coordinator and play caller, a 23-7 win over Florida. 351 total yards, 144 on the ground. You were there. What did you make of Whitten? How many yards total yards? 351? Yeah. What did you make of it? I was like a proud father, Mike. Bye. Bye. And, look, I love Jason Whitten. I like his passion. And, look, the offensive coordinator was over his head. But I think Jason's change is good. And I think that, you know, you get a direction and play calling. I mean, I didn't know how well this would work out for his first game as an offensive coordinator. But I think it kind of resonates. I don't know what's going to happen this week. Who knows what that may be. But I know Oklahoma needed an interjection of energy. They need a persona. They need someone that they respect. And I think Jason Witten has that grit and has that play call and ability. And I just think that players respond to different personalities. And maybe I think, again, I don't know what's going to happen next week, but they had to stop the hemorrhaging. Witt was able to do that. He seems to be the type of guy that Witten does that he could instill a little bit of fear in players, which I don't think is necessarily a bad thing. What you're hearing a lot with the chatter now is how long before Jason Witten makes his way back to becoming a coach of the Dallas Cowboys. Look, a lot of things have happened. There's been guys who've been hired. Maybe they haven't had the resume. If that's the narrative, I'd say Jason Wynn has a better chance of being a head coach for the Cowboys than Troy Aikman has a chance of being a GM. Okay. No, I think that's valid. No, absolutely. If that's even a stretch. Probably not. That's probably not a stretch. You've been somewhat vocal on social media about your feelings about Brent Venables. I know it's been frustrating, 5-4 this year, 37-24 in his five seasons. Is it time for a change at the top of the OU program? Look, I always get on social media because I'm this old guy talking about my... But, you know, we have standards at Oklahoma. I'm sorry, we have standards, and maybe I'm the guy that will be opinionated, but I really felt like, why did they give Brent Venables an extension after really four years, three years, and now this year, and then some of the decisions he made? I mean, that's part of the coaching's responsibility. And I just think. He seems to me a guy that players don't respond to. And I say that, I'm not trying to say, really not a positive way to say it, but it just seems to me there's a lot of chaos. And I think he's really kind of had his chance. And I think he's a great guy. But I think he just gets too one-dimensional. He gets into his defensive play call and doesn't see the peripheral things. Oh, by the way, your offense is really struggling. Your defense has been balling their ass off all year long, and yet there's been no production. So, I think you've got to get criticized for that, and that was my only question, is why did you extend Brent Venables when you probably could have let it play out and see what happened? Because now there's a lot of dead money out there for when it comes to coaches being fired, $48 million on his contract to buy him out. So I don't know. I just don't think we have standards at Oklahoma, and I just think that he is probably not the best fit. Whether people are going to come at me and say, hey, why are you so hard on Brent Venables? Well, again, I think that some of the decision-making with the first offensive coordinator and Jackson Arnold and then John Mateer and this disaster with the 29-year-old former Uber driver, Ben Arbuckle. No offense to Uber drivers because I use them a lot, but my point being said. This seems to me he's over his head. Yeah. Too bad Tony's not passionate about his alma mater. Tony, I have a little something, a little maybe a vintage shirt that you might recognize that someone handed to me. Do you recognize that? Holy moly, what the? Where did that come from? Where'd you get that at? To me, it was... I think it's like as old as one of those chairs out in the lobby. I think he needs to paint that. What year is that, 2005? Look at that. From the old football Sunday show. Did you see the back of it? Look at this. It looks just like my Aunt Dorothy. Yes! You like that? That's great. I don't know exactly what my pronoun was back then, but hey. Vintage Casillas with us here on Free For All. Thank you. Thanks, Tony. Yeah, of course, of course. We got all the vintage old stuff. Thanks, Tony. Thank you, Tony. Take a quick break. We'll be right back. Back on Free For All Plus. The Mavericks are definitely worth talking about right now. I tell you, Sam, they've been surprisingly good for much of this early season, seven and four under first-year coach Dusty May. And the kid, Cooper Flagg, is a big part of the reason why. He's doing things that very few teenagers have ever done in this league. Yeah, you know, last night, Wemby had a big, big game, too. He had like 40 points, was like 20 rebounds, something insane. But, and I'm not to take anything away from Wemby because he's a unicorn in his own right. But it feels like, too, we need to be talking about Cooper Flagg a little bit more. And the thing is, if he keeps putting up the numbers that he's been putting up, you're not going to be able to ignore it. I don't think most people would have predicted them, Mike, to start off the season seven and four and they're five and two at home, but they are exciting to watch. And I think when you, when you see Mavs fans responding and chiming in on even last night's game, there's a lot of them out there that still will say, well, since Lucas has left, you know, I'm never going to be a fan, but it's becoming harder and harder not to get on board with this team because of how entertaining they are. Kyrie, too, he played for the first time, a first complete back-to-back, hit seven threes last night. What was it, 35, 35 points? Yes, 35 points. And he's just playing with an ease about him like he's been there before, which he has. He's played with so many different superstars, and not to say that that Cooper Flagg is like LeBron, but it's similar in the sense of it shouldn't be a surprise that those two are Working out so well together because Kyrie's had plenty of experience with playing with guys at that level. Heard the numbers today of when Kyrie has played a back-to-back with the Mavs. It hasn't been that often. But the second night has almost always been spectacular, like last night was. He averages like 29 in the second night of a back-to-back while with the Mavs, which says a lot about his level of commitment and conditioning, certainly. But Flagg, right before our very eyes, is turning into an all-star caliber player, 43-10-6 last night. And I think, and we talked about this on TV the other night, what's impressed me most is his ability to facilitate, if you will, and distribute the basketball. The way he sees the floor. I mean, his game is so complete for somebody his age. It's kind of, it's almost frightening. And he's a willing defender, obviously, as well. You know, we keep saying his outside shot will get better. I heard Rick Carlisle, the Pacers coach, of course, the former Mavs coach, and they beat Indiana last night talking about the versatility of Flagg and kind of the complete nature of his game. But that kind of seems to separate him from certainly almost any player of this age and in the history of the game, to be honest. Yeah, and. A lot's being made of Kyrie Irving and Cooper Flagg's age gap because there's a pretty big one. But when you hear Kyrie speak about Cooper Flagg is. Kyrie already knows he's talking to one of the great ones because he's there right now. It's not like, oh, yeah, he'll be there in another year, two years. No, like Cooper Flagg has arrived now and he's going to be a serious problem for a long time. The other funny thing is Cooper's been eating these peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, but apparently he forgot his last night, but then he ate it, I think, on the way home or something. He was ticked off in the postgame press conference last night because he forgot it. Trying to put on weight, which he has, for sure, in taking that seriously. What I also like about him, too, I feel like he's letting his personality come out a little bit more compared to last year. Maybe that has to do with the fact that he's just more comfortable now, and he's got Kyrie with him, and they're just moving along. Well, it's early for me to be saying what I'm about to say, but... We're going to be comparing Flagg to, to Luca for a long time for obvious reasons. And I, and I think it's possible that before long Flagg will be considered the better all around player, not better scorer. Luca is averaging 40 points a game. He's always going to be a tremendous scorer. Supposedly he's actually trying to play on the other end of the floor this year as well. But I just wonder if there won't be some Cooper Flagg, LeBron type comparison. Oh yeah. When I think about their game. They're sort of similar in that way, right? I mean, they're kind of the same size, kind of that rangy guy. And LeBron wasn't a great shooter from the outside early in his career either. He had to really work on that. But obviously, he had everything else as one of the all-time greats. Not saying Flagg is there yet, but again, a guy who came into the league really young and is doing so much at a young age. That was his fifth. 40-point game of his young career, again, just 19, second year in the league. And coming up for the Mavs, again, the beginning of their schedule, Mike, hasn't been easy by any means. So they're at Minnesota on Thursday. Then they're at Cleveland, and then they're at Boston. And then they're at home against Golden State, who's playing well right now, too. So it's been challenging, but so far they've been in most of these games and competitive down to the wire. And 7-4 out of the gate here. We're back to wrap our show up in a minute. Again, the Cowboys made no significant deals on trade deadline day. How do you feel about their approach? And 100% of you so far say they should have sold. Oh, Fox 4 News.com slash free for all or scan the code. I guess I'd be in that number because I really think they should have dealt Pickens. my But I would have said it would have had to have been for a second rounder. So maybe they didn't get that offer. We may never know what was discussed. God. That's the thing. Probs won't. So here's to this weekend. All right. Well, we will be back at 10.30 tonight on Fox 4 with much more on free-for-all, including the latest college football playoff rankings. See you at 10.30.