Leading Through Complexity PART 2 | Simon Sinek

Maybe tell us about a principle or a framework or belief that you had maybe a few years ago, but you've changed it or it's, you've iterated it and, and, and it's different now. Is there anything that comes to mind like that? Yeah. So. I want to be a good boss. I want people to have work-life balance, right? And so I have a rule in the company, for example, that if anybody does work while they're on vacation, like if I get an email from you, a work email, while you're on vacation, I take you out of the bonus pool. That's incentive. Because... Because there's a difference between taking a vacation and commuting from a beach. And I don't want people to be like, honey, I'll be down after breakfast. I just have some work to do. I've literally ruined your vacation. That's not a vacation. That's taking a couple hours to go have lunch with your kids. Right. Go take a vacation. Go sharpen your axe. Go reset and then come back. So I'm very strict about people taking vacation. And I was as strict about nights and weekends. I used to get very mad when people would work at night or work on weekends. I mean, obviously, there's always exceptions, but on a regular basis, right? And I would yell at them, like, stop it. Like, I want you to be with your family. And then I saw some data about high-risk employees, like who's more likely to quit or burn out, right? Right? Very high risk of departing are people who never work on nights and weekends. Because they're disengaged. So they're very high risk of leaving. Very high risk of burnout, which could mean also leaving, are people who work too many nights and too many weekends. Because they're overdoing it. But there's a sweet spot of people who work occasional nights and occasional weekends is because they really, really care. And so I backed off being so dogmatic about people working nights and weekends and basically recognize that my team members who care desperately about what we're doing, what we're trying to put in the world, it's worth it to them to work the occasional night, the occasional weekend. But I still have to watch their engagement and their burnout. I'm still watching that, but I'm no longer dogmatic about, I'm not absolutist about it anymore. That's great. That's a good story. All right. Let's layer in AI now. For decades, high-performing teams were really purely human to human, right? And those relationships were really based on trust, communication, safety, psychological safety. Now teams include AI or AI augmentation. How does that equation change with some of your teammates that are AI tools or agents or were augmenting roles? As it relates to trust or team performance? Yeah, team performance where human to human, now we're introducing technology and agents and, you know, different technology. I find it a difficult and sort of funny question because I don't know what it changes, right? We've been implementing highly powered tools into work for years. Like, you know, the plow, you know, made life easier. Yeah. I mean, I don't have to use a shovel, I can have an ox and a plow, you know? And we used to take three people to do the field, now it takes one. I used to take a day, now it takes an hour. I know it's more extreme than a plow. But at the end of the day, here's the analogy, right? Which is, I think that... There's something called the... I always forget the name, but it's this principle where the metric becomes the goal, right? So, for example, grades are supposed to be a way for you to measure your success and see how much you're learning, but people forget about the learning and only care about the grades, right? Right. Revenue is supposed to be a metric to see if people value us and value our product. And people forget that it's not about value to the customer anymore. It's just about, have we hit the revenue number? Yeah. That's it. And we confuse the metric as the goal. And I think the analogy is here as well, which is it's important to be data informed. Get informed. You shouldn't be data driven. It's like when people say, well, the data says this, so that's what we should do. No, the data is just a data point. That's all it is. It's like the way people use lawyers. People misuse lawyers. The lawyer said we can't do it. No, the lawyers advise on risk. You get to make the decision. Right? The lawyer said we can't do it. Lawyers don't make decisions, they advise on risk. And so what people are doing when they abdicate their responsibilities, which is decision making, they're abdicating their responsibilities to the lawyer, they're abdicating their responsibility to the metric, they're abdicating their responsibility to the AI, AI said, dot, dot, dot. It's just a data point, and it should be a data point to inform your decision. And now you potentially have an employee. Who has the best memory of any of us, is in every meeting, has access to all the data, has access to all the sales materials, all the marketing successes, and can look back five years instantaneously. Don't you want that employee on your team to give you advice, but the decision is still yours? And I think the people who recognize that this is an amazing tool to guide my decisions will do way better. Then the people who simply do what the computer says, because that is a finite mindset, and generally I would guess that any company that is making data decisions as opposed to data-informed decisions has a lack of vision. Because when you have a vision, you're trying to accomplish something so far in the distance, so idealistic, that the data is helping you guide it, and that's why you can be data-informed. But if you have no vision, the only thing you have is the thing sitting right in front of your face, the quarter of the year. And so you're going to do whatever the numbers tell you to do. And my bet is that over the course of time, that starts to wear thin, whether it wears thin for the performance, but it definitely wears thin for the culture of the organization. Maybe talk a little bit more about that culture and the human dynamic. Like, what do you see happening? Tell us a little bit more about that. Maybe double click. Well, I can't predict what's going to happen with AI in the workforce. You know, it wasn't that long ago. I think it was only like two years ago where like literally The people who are telling us what the future looks like, you know, they were telling us that, you know, prompting will be a new job, a prompter. Right. And like your kids will go to school to learn prompting. You know, you remember this, right? This was like two years ago. Like people like you're going to be my kids going to be a prompt engineer, right? A prompt engineer. It was actually a thing. Why? Because you had to get good at telling the machine to what to say. Yeah. You know, so we can get there. Well, it's gotten so good. This is already obsolete. It's like within a year that job's not a job. So my point is these predictions are hilarious. Yeah. Right. Um, at the end of the day, none of us knows, will there be some bad things? Of course there will be, will there be massive disruption and a period of uncertainty? Will people lose their jobs without a doubt? Same thing happened with the internet. Same thing happened with robotic. Right. It's predominantly going to affect knowledge work. You know, just as a quick aside, I have to say this cause this is my soapbox and you gave me a microphone and a spotlight. So it's like, uh, back in the seventies and eighties. Robots started to show up in factories and the blue collar world went, whoa, we're going to lose our jobs. And the finance and the ruling classes and the white collar world said, it's the future, baby. Adapt, re-skill. Will the pendulum do swing? Because your plumber doesn't fear AI now. The carpenter doesn't fear AI, your mechanic doesn't fear AI, the people who fear AI are the knowledge workers who literally thought that they were better than the blue-collar world, and I think this is an amazing opportunity for a different kind of skill and different kind of thinking. You know, the mechanic who knows what's wrong with your car simply by listening to the engine, you know, the plumber who can figure it out without opening up the wall, You know, that only comes with years of experience and intuition. And at the end of the day, there's a labor of their hands to fix these things, a different kind of thinking. And And to the white-collar world, to the knowledge worker, I guess it's the future, baby. Maybe. you Research. Reskill, you know, because there will be a bloodletting in the... very In the knowledge world, without a doubt, without a doubt. And I think this is an amazing opportunity much. for highly skilled blue-collar work to have a renaissance. And I think this is, and the artisan, and I mean that even just for us, you know, if you're in the knowledge world, like, get a hobby. Mm-hmm. Like, like... And I don't mean because you won't have a job. Prompt engineering, maybe? Yeah, maybe. I mean because there's something to be said for this different way of thinking that I think is going to be, if you're asking me any kind of prediction, it's going to be more valuable than we realize. I really do think the pendulum has gone, it went one way and it sort of decimated blue collar work and I think it's going to decimate white collar work and I think the reality is it'll settle somewhere in the middle and I actually think it's an amazing time. Amazing thing to watch. That was a good soapbox moment. I like that. All right, let's shift gears, talk a little bit about younger generations that are entering our workforce. So there's different expectations from leadership. We have purpose. There's flexibility that's required. Organizations trying to support early career talent while also navigating the aging workforce that's going on. What do leaders most often misunderstand about younger employees? I think the single biggest misunderstanding about younger employees is that they are technology obsessed. They're technology addicted, but so are we. Okay. But they're not technology obsessed. I actually think younger people will lead the way, and are leading the way, to do things in the real world. They're the ones who are putting their phones away with their friends. They're the ones who are looking things to do in real life and pursue experiences. Thank I also think that they have been subjected to a world that they didn't create. So, you know, the concept of mass layoffs, using... you People's livelihoods to balance the annual books. very The company's making money, just not as much money as we told everybody we would. So you get to lose your job, so we get to tell the analysts, much. look how we made our numbers. That idea didn't exist in the United States prior to the 1980s. It didn't exist. It was existential only layoffs. And they've become like a normal part of doing business. And so this young generation has grown up in a world that only had layoffs. That every single one of them, either their parents or their friends' parents have absolutely been laid off through no fault of their own. It's not a meritocracy anymore, right? Sorry, we missed our numbers. Nothing personal. It's just business, right? And so they're watching the rules at which business plays by and they're playing by the rules business set. And so I hear companies complain how young people today, they have no loyalty. True. And they appear to be entitled. And I'll give you one example of what entitlement looks like. When you and I were younger and we worked really hard on our jobs, we worked really hard, completed the topic, completed the subject, worked on the extra project, and then we went to our boss and said, look at all the extra stuff that I've done. I would like a raise. Now kids will come into your office and be like, give me a raise, and you'll see all the stuff I can do. Thank you. And we're like, entitled, right? Not entitled. Playing by the rules we set, because they have grown up in a world where there is no certainty or safety in employment. It used to be that an entrepreneurial venture was unsafe and a corporate job was safe. No longer. In fact, it's almost the reverse, right? And so they are playing by the rules that companies set. Companies offer no loyalty to the employees anymore. And so why should they be loyal? Companies, you can come into work one day and you're a good performer, but sorry, we missed our numbers. You lose your job, get your money up front because it may not last. And so don't misunderstand their point of view. They are a mirror of the rules by which we play, the rules we set. Mm-hmm. And I think that their behaviors are correct. I would do the same. Same. Yeah. And so what can we learn from them? They do want the things that the rest of us want. They want belonging. They want to feel like a part of something bigger than themselves. Mm-hmm. Just like any employee, they want to know about their Monday. They don't care about what the future of the big reorg is. Will it affect my job on Monday? I'm going to have more work or less work, right? And at the end of the day, they absolutely are loyal if they feel a part of something. And this is all the stuff that we're talking about. It's all the stuff that everybody here already believes, which is work is human, right? Work is human. The reason they call it a company is it is a group of people. And it's the messy, awkward, uncomfortable, annoying things that people do when they come together, just like any relationship. That make great organizations great, which is you manage the messiness and the technology will stack it on the side. You know, again, some people, of course, are going to lose their jobs, but new jobs will be formed. And technologists love to tell us, you know, that 80 percent of the jobs today didn't exist 30 years ago. They love to tell us that. Well, then I have to predict that 80 percent of the jobs 30 years from now. We didn't even we couldn't even conceive of. So why are we predicting? Um, uh... But the one thing we should double down on, the one thing we have to double down on, is people. Teach people human skills. Teach people how to have difficult conversations. Teach people how to give feedback. Teach people how to receive feedback. Teach people the very human skills of leadership. Because the technology will happen around us. And it's the organizations that double down on human, I guarantee you, that will not only outlast, but thrive for the long term. I love that. You've actually transitioned to skills. Let's talk a bit about this. You've talked about how many people call it soft skills, but you prefer to use the term human skills. I hate the term soft skills. Yeah. This is empathy. This is judgment, moral courage. Yep. So we've been investing years, organizations teaching technical skills, but very few organizations teach these human skills. I almost went back to something. I know. Thank you. What needs to change, you know, in order for companies to build those a little bit more intentionally? Yeah, whoever named soft skills, and I don't know who did it, it's a branding problem. Yeah. Because nobody wants anything soft. This is business, right? I mean, people don't even like the word vulnerable, and you're going to tell them that they're going to be soft now? Come on. Hard and soft are opposites. Right. And at the end of the day, if I teach you technical skills, hard skills, those are the skills of your job. And if I teach you human skills, those are the skills that make you a better human. And at the end of the day, I want people who excel at both. Because if you fail at either one of those, you're going to have a short career. You could be the most technically proficient person, but if you don't know how to get along with people, it's not going to work out. If you're great at getting along with people, but you don't know how to do your job, it's not going to work out. Right? And so it is our responsibility as HR leaders to help people grow in both of those. It tends to be a little more hard skills driven when they're junior, but then as they make their way through the ranks and they become leaders, In other words, they're not really doing the job anymore. They're leading others to do the job. Then the balance has to shift to the more human skills. And so part of it is a branding thing, which is everybody wants to be a better human. Nobody wants to be more soft. And yeah, I believe wholeheartedly in that. Every employee who starts at my company gets a call from me soon after they start. And I tell them two things. Everybody gets the same speech. Number one, you're a part of something bigger than yourself. And we are having an outsized impact despite the fact that we have a little team. And you are a part of it. And I'll go through some detail about some of the changes we're having and the impact we're having and the vision we have. And I tell them, you are now a part of this. Number two is I only have one expectation of you, is that you take yourself on. I expect that you will take yourself on and grow as a human. I said some of that training, some of those resources, we will give to you. And some of it, I expect you to find yourself. And whether you stay here for a long term or a short term, whether you love it here or hate it here, my expectation is when you leave, you will be a better version of yourself because you worked here. That's inspiring. And then, and then, and we take that seriously and we have to model it. So when we screw up and we make mistakes, we, we model accountability and all the rest of it, because that's what we expect of everybody else. I love it. All right. So you're speaking to 2,500 HR leaders here. If there's one mindset or leadership behavior, you hope they take back to their teams today, what would it be? I don't know if you're asking me a leading question, because you want me to say infinite mindset, which I'm very grateful for. Therefore, the... I would say the one mindset I would go back is service. Have a service mindset. You're here to serve human beings who are serving human beings. And I can tell you from research and personal experience that if you want to lie in your deathbed one day and look back and say, I lived a life worth living, it won't be because of the car you bought or the number in your bank account or whatever title is on your business card. It was because you had the opportunity to serve those who serve others. And, and that other people valued you in their lives and to live a life of service comes in many forms and shapes. It doesn't mean giving to charity necessarily, but it means showing up every day to help those around you rise, um, become a servant, become a servant to the people around you, which doesn't mean do it for them, but it means look out for them, help them grow, help them understand their blind spots, learn how to talk to them and give them feedback in a way that they can hear it. Not just that it was said and you can fill out the report that said I gave them the feedback, right? And then stand by them as they bumble and fumble and take that bumpy route and fall a bunch of times. And when they succeed, it'll be the greatest gift you can give yourself to them. And I can prove it. I can prove it. Which is I want everybody to think about a teacher or a coach that you had in junior high school or high school. Right? Who believed in you. Saw something in you that maybe others didn't. That you are who you are today because of this person. Tell me the name. Right? Tell me the name. They're easy to come up with, right? Now tell me the name of every other teacher you had that year. You can't do it. You can't do it. You remember the ones who helped you find yourself. Believe in yourself. You remember the ones who, for one weird reason, because you're a total screw-up, Took a liking to you and saw something in you that nobody else saw. And you are who you are today because of that person. And they may forget, have forgotten who you are. And you will never forget them. Don't you want to be that person to everyone you work with?