Poland's president has 'no competence' to appoint judges, says EPP MEP

Poland is facing a deepening constitutional crisis, with the government and the presidency locked in a bitter battle over who controls the judiciary. The government under Donald Tusk says it is restoring the rule of law. President Karol Nowrocki's camp accuses it of trying to seize the courts. So, who is really undermining Poland's democracy? And can this confrontation be resolved before it spirals further? We're going to hear from both sides of the issue. First, I'm joined by Michal Wawrykiewicz, a member of the European Parliament for the European People's Party, the party of Donald Tusk. Good morning and thanks for coming on. Good morning. Thank you for having me. So we've now seen an extraordinary confrontation with newly elected judges entering the tribunal, the president of the court being challenged and President Karol Navrotsky personally intervening. Who actually has the legal authority to decide who sits on the tribunal and who runs it? We are facing the huge constitutional crisis in Poland, in the Constitutional Court of Poland, since 2015, when the Law and Justice Party started the government and they brutally assaulted the Constitutional Court. Since that time, We had a lot of violations and this situation was challenged by all possible courts, also European courts, European courts of human rights and the court of justice. And they all confirmed that what has happened in 2015, 2016 and later on, that was the violation. Now we are. The government of Donald Tusk and the majority in the parliament and the judges who were elected by the parliament are trying to restore the rule of law in the parliament. And what we have seen is that on Friday, newly elected judges entered the constitutional court and Judge Anna Korvin-Piotrowska ordered the suspension. Of two judges, the president and the vice president of the Constitutional Court, who were appointed by the Law and Justice Party. So, um... Miral, let me ask you this. The government says it is restoring judicial independence after years of political weaponization under the Law and Justice Party. But isn't the government now doing exactly what it accused Law and Justice of doing, using political power to reshape the judiciary? Definitely not. The government, the majority in the parliament and the judges elected by the parliament are acting according to the rulings of the European courts, of the Court of Justice and the European Court of Human Rights, according to what Venice Commission confirmed just two weeks ago and according to the interim measure which was issued on the 5th of May. This year, allowing these judges to enter the Constitutional Court. They were blocked by the president and the vice president of the court. And that's why Judge Anna Korhyn-Piotrowska decided to suspend these two judges, president and the vice president of the court. And that is what happened on Friday. And later on in the night, what we have seen was the brutal assault of the president of of the Republic, who entered... Using force entered the building of the constitutional court and using the force almost damaged the judges standing in front of the court. So this is what we have seen. That was the brutal assault of the president of the republic on the independence of the constitutional court. So the European Commission says the same, the parliament, has the constitutional power to appoint judges to the constitutional tribunal. Does that settle the argument? Yes, definitely. The only competent authority in Poland to appoint judges of the Constitutional Court is the parliament, the lower chamber of the parliament in Poland. The president does not have any competences to appoint judges. That's why the only right is on the side of the parliament and the government and the judges who are elected properly by the parliament. And so we are facing the enforcement. of law, the restoring of the rule of law and independence of this most important constitutional court in Poland. And what is the concrete way out of this crisis now, and what would it take to secure some sort of cross-party recognition of the tribunal? Well, the consistency of all of the actions in the next days, in the future. Tomorrow, there is an assembly, general assembly of all judges of the Constitutional Court, and they will decide upon the future of the Constitutional Court. This is the only competent body in the Constitutional Court to decide about the future of the Constitutional court, of the judges and of the suspended If Tusk and Navrotsky refuse to back down, who actually has the power to stop this crisis? Well, this crisis, as I said, started back in 2015. And this year, President Nawrocki, who is trying to block all of the restoration of the rule of law, all of the implementation of the rulings of the European courts, which is the most important because these rulings are drawing the roadmap how to get out of the crisis. But President Navrotsky needs and wants to keep... The power of his political camp over the Constitutional Court. So this is the fault of President Nawrocki and his camp that they don't want to restore the rule of law. They want to keep the political power over the Constitutional Court. That was the politically manipulated theater of puppets for 10 years, and they want to keep it. This is quite an extraordinary crisis. I can't remember anything like it in any other EU country. Are you worried that this story sort of harms the international, the European reputation of Poland? Our European friends deeply understand the situation in Poland because they are facing this situation for many years. And this situation and also in other parts of the judiciary was discussed, debated in the parliament, in other institutions of the European Union many times. So I truly believe that they understand the situation and they understand that the government of Donald Tusk is trying to restore. We will rebuild the rule of law in Poland and we will be fully consistent in that way. And I believe we will do that. You are right that this is an unprecedented situation, not only in Poland, but in the whole Europe. Never happened before. But we are where we are and we need to act on the battlefield where we are.