How To Build Real Relationships (Not Just Network)

The digital world has actually made us worse at building relationships because it gave us this illusion that you're well-connected to everyone. Like you can just go on LinkedIn, just go to Facebook, click, click, click, click, click, add a bunch of people. And you kind of feel like, yeah, I know all these people, but not actually. Nita, welcome to the Total Entrepreneur MindBodySpirit podcast. Welcome. So great to have you here. Hi, John. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So the first question I have for you is, um, so you, you've had a very interesting career, L'Oreal, Unilever, Reckitt, coach, TEDx organizer. Um, but what was the moment you knew you were done with corporate life and what did you have to be willing to give up or lose in order to leave that? I think it's an interesting question, especially for a lot of the younger entrepreneurs I work with? Yeah. So I, I think in hindsight, I realized that my personality was not really a great fit, um, to work in corporate, not really good fit to, you know, I'm my, my number one strength really is ideation. So I love inventing things. I love solving problems and inventing solutions. Um, but in, at that moment, you know, it was early twenties. I didn't really have that self-awareness I only knew that every you know when I started a new job it would be exciting but then like after three months I would kind of be really bored I'd be really bored I'd be like yeah we're launching another product again and it's kind of the same routine and um so you know I thought maybe it's not it's the job maybe I have to change and do another you know work at another company, a new role or something like that. So that's why I think I worked for a few companies in the span of five years. And then after that, I just happened to marry my first boyfriend and have a child. So that's how I actually left corporate. I was kind of like, yeah, corporate is not going to be the long term plan. And, you know, I was going to be a stay at home mom. that was the idea so i started a child development center um ended up becoming a single mom after two and a half years you know i didn't really know much about relationships back then or like who i was or what kind of person i wanted to be with and when i got into child psychology running that you know um child development center that was when i realized that i have to be doing something with psychology I am obsessed about psychology I really love understanding the human mind human behavior and why we do the things we do you know what makes us different and like why are you know like just just observing humans observing myself and people around me I was just really curious about all this and so that's how I got into coaching you know one day I was listening to this guy on YouTube and um he I remember he created a lot of like psychology content and then one day he said you know I'm a life coach and I I coach people and back then like it wasn't a term that people like you don't hear that term often I was like I googled it I was like what is a life coach and that's how I got into this whole this this entire rabbit hole of uh you know becoming a coach I got certified um with the International Coaching Federation I started a coaching school so that I could train and mentor other people so they could get certified as well you know became a business executive coach but then also got interested into in the world of romantic relationships so I got trained on the Gottman method um as a couples coach couples therapists um family systems therapists and also trained here at the medical school as a sex therapist as well so it's kind of an odd mix um but I am just fascinated whether it's personal um development professional development all every field of psychology I was just I just was so interested I still am so I'm very interested um and love to study psychology it was my undergraduate major too actually that's funny and you know you said you you had a child development center but I run a bunch of um integrated preschools so some of the kids have disabilities. Some of them are typically developing. We have an outpatient clinic, home health program. So yeah, very similar in that way. Yeah. So let's talk about relationships as an asset class. I mean, clearly this is something you've got some experience and passion for. But first let's start with the distinction everyone seems to get wrong. What actually separates what we call networking, right? I teach at a business school and we talk about networking a lot. What's the difference between networking and building a real relationship? When we hear the word networking um i i don't i don't really think of anyone that like goes yay we're gonna go networking or like has a really positive feeling when they hear the word networking um just because of the negative experience that people have had with networking i suppose in my mind networking is kind of like you're just going out there and you're just meeting a bunch of people you're going to a networking event you just like you know end up kind of exchanging name cards with people or nowadays kind of like your digital contacts or instagram linkedin whatsapp and you know you kind of um remember some of them you don't remember some of them you might follow up with some of them but it's mostly for like professional reasons right that you go kind of networking you look for customers you look for clients maybe you're looking for a job but building relationships is like you actually have a relationship with this person you know um and it doesn't mean everybody has to be your best friend some people can be your still remain your acquaintance or a colleague or um a friend but maybe not that close you know so this is why i was talking about doing a relationship audit and understanding that you know not everybody's going to be your best friend and not everybody is going to be your friend right some people will remain that it will be your acquaintance and um that's okay too it's like not everybody has to be your your inner circle your close your your your best friend um but when we talk about relationship building it's like kind of like in it happens in in several phases right you get you connect with a person then you kind of get to know them you get to know them as a person who are they what are their core values what what are their like their outlook in life what matters to them what's important to them what motivates them and you know how did they get to where they are today so that's like kind of how I like to understand and really get to know someone and then from there there's like this nurturing process that requires consistency and um meeting up and getting to know each other and then supporting each other you know and so that really depends on what kind of relationship you're trying to build with each individual that comes into your sphere your your circle and um i find it that the digital world has actually made us worse at building relationships because it gave us this illusion that you're well connected to everyone like you can just go on LinkedIn you can just go to Facebook you know click click click click click add a bunch of people and you kind of feel like yeah I know all these people but not actually you don't actually have a relationship with these people and just because you see what people are having for lunch or dinner you see their birthday party you see their family photos it kind of it's almost like this parasocial relationship with the people you actually know in real life not like parasocial relationship with celebrities but like kind of people that you actually know but you're not in their life and that's kind of why you know at 2 a.m there's not many people that you can actually call if you have a crisis because it's just like you're just consuming this information but there's no relationship building happening here and I think like we've been living with this like these social media platforms for the past 20 years and we've really gotten used to doing life that way doing relationships that way and yeah that's what i'm trying to reverse i'm trying to reverse the damage and what you know what has has been done by us all being on the internet and consuming and you know following but not really connecting and not really building real relationships right it feels like we need a new name for networking, right? Because I think the whole idea is relationship building, right? Because people want to do business with people that they have a relationship, not just some random stranger who they happen to have a business card from. I've read that you describe relationships as the highest or one of the highest return assets in life and in business. So if we can reduce that to numbers or a metric somehow, like how would you measure it or how do you measure it? And then what is a, if you will, what is a strong relationship portfolio look like versus a weak one? let me answer the second one first. There's research, you know, and books that people have written about, about how, you know, on average, we can maintain 150 to 250 relationships in life. I would say maybe the modern world, we've gotten actually worse at that we might have 5000 LinkedIn friends, 7000 Facebook, whatever. But the number of people we actually can say that we know we like actually know these people i think nowadays has maybe on average not 150 to 250 people but as a species as a human being that's the number that we should be able to maintain um but we've been we've been kind of trained through the digital world to be isolated to and you know now we live in micro families and you know we're more independent and now the work from home and you know um everything you can just do it without leaving the house you can consume information you can work from home you can kind of have these virtual online things at home you know so um i would say um a good portfolio at least for me would be like you have these different categories of friends and um relationships so i grade my relationships so i would recommend everybody do an audit on their relationship so it's kind of like you're it's like a grading system for school but i i wouldn't say everybody just copy me or copy my system just just do whatever works for you right well i used to kind of explain it this way i say there's a cat like a grade a grade b grade c those are all friends those are all people you trust those are people that the different levels of closeness right your a's are people like family you talk to them every day like your friends that are like family you talk to them every week like you're super close you reveal like things that you feel vulnerable about and your b's are just less close and c's are even less close and maybe it's the lifestyle maybe it's the time and the you know a lot of people are busy they might not have time to invest in this relationship to build this relationship with you and then the d's are people that you can work with on projects but you don't entirely trust them because they have done something to break your trust like you know that they don't really have your best interests at heart and then the F's are people that are dangerous and then G's are acquaintances like general acquaintances and I think that a lot of people get confused and they might especially women they end up calling everybody a friend and when I hear my clients or my friends like talk about these people it doesn't sound like they are your friend it sounds more like they are just an acquaintance and there's nothing you know negative about that it's it's just not great when you give them the wrong category let's say you know and you have all these expectations that oh this person should be investing in this relationship the way I am but they're just like they just view this as an you as an acquaintance so I believe in understanding the nature of these different relationships and being intentional about how you invest in those relationships because if you end up investing in the d's the f's that's going to take a lot of time and energy from from the the the relationships that you should be investing your time and your energy in i would say a balanced um or healthy portfolio uh would be like for me at least i want to have 20 really um great people in my inner inner circle that i could call like best friends i never say i have one best friend and so i i personally want to have 20 um and some people would say well why do you need so many and i guess my argument is like well if you can have 20 best friends why not like why would you want to have only one or two you know and i guess the only downside would be it requires time it does require time um and and energy and investment because it's like 20 relationships that you have to nurture consistently right and then so nowadays I kind of look at it more when I'm doing the relationship audit maybe you can do a grading system but when I think about my friends or when I have, I've built an app called IRL so on there there's kind of these categories and you can choose a category for each of your contacts or your your connections so there's like new there's uh inner circle there's nurturing there's acquaintance there's colleague you know there's all these different categories and um i think you just need to be really intentional and understand so for me um acquaintance i would prefer to have around 250 to 2500 that's my number but i am i'm a this is my business this is um the career this is my my i i run all these things that are related all these businesses that are related to relationships so i i would probably see in the future even that number expanding to a thousand um but i think there's no fixed rule for for everyone it's not like a one size fits all i think you have to work out that number for yourself um yeah like um so so 20 maybe like best friends and then surely enough in those groups of like 20 people you might be closer to maybe three to five people just naturally and then there's like this 50 people that are i kind of call them like more than acquaintance so 50 people you kind of engage with them maybe on a quarterly basis you know or maybe every two months something like that 50 people and then the 200 to 500 could be like once every six months or once every year you know so that's kind of um how i think about my own portfolio i appreciate you breaking that down for us so as you were talking i was thinking of a few things so it seemed at least in my experience it seems like there's there's some gender differences there with the way men and women handle like the nature of their relationships a number of their relationships um and it also seems that there might be like not only just the frequency of your interaction but maybe the the history of it right like for me personally there are there are people that i grew up with maybe or i went to college with that we were really close for a short period of time and then five years could go by where we don't really engage that much but then when we do get together it feels like we didn't even miss a beat so i was wondering if there's a name for that or a you know if you i'm sure you've got experience with that yeah yeah i think everybody has that experience it's like the lifestyle or where you are in life with these people you might not be engaging with them that often and i have friends like that as well i have a friend that you know a group of friends that are amazing amazing human beings but they're athletes and i am like not an athlete i don't you know i i don't want to go to like iron man i don't want to go hiking i don't want to go do all these things and because of the lifestyle it's different um we don't talk that often we don't meet that often but you know if something happens they call me at 2 a.m i will i will go and help them you know and i think that it's the same way as well um and you know these friends that you have a really long history with i think it's the same feeling like you love them You do have a really strong relationship and long history with them, but you might not be engaging that often. But what I hear from clients and people around me is that, you know, as you get older as well, you kind of like regret not keeping in touch or not spending more time with those people, I guess. And some would just completely forget about these people. You know, a decade can pass and you never spoke to them. So I guess that would you would consider those people in like inner circle, friends, best friend category, really, depending on how close you are with these people. And I think the measurement of closeness is not always how often you meet up with them. Right. How well do you know each other at a deeper level, at a deeper layer? right you you can like not talk to someone for years but like you really know them they really know you and for me apart from the nurturing side of things I view someone as like someone that is close to me and I consider them someone in my inner circle or best friend because I just love that person like for who they are as a person and then if we break that down it's really it really it comes down to core values, right? When I look at the people that I, you know, want to keep in my life, they're the kindest people, you know, generous people, people that want to leave the world a better place, like through the all the actions and decisions that they make on a daily basis. So like, those are my people. So I just, everybody needs to know, like, who are my people? Who are your people? And what what really makes you feel like these people are the people you want to keep in your life and think about the reasons um i feel like we don't as as human beings we might not think about that um as much as we should you know if you you you do this relationship audit and you look at your you know the the 10 people the 20 people in your inner circle or or you know the people that you you love the most you want to keep in your life there's something usually there's something common about them and there's a reason you get along with these people there's a reason you feel that these people are important for you and it could be a mix of core values and history and things that you've done for one another how you've had each other's back throughout the years you know and sometimes we we forget and we forget to nurture those relationships because life is just busy yeah it seems like a lot of it is well maybe not a lot of it but maybe the intensity or the intensity around the beginning of the relationship like i know i work with veterans and people in the military and they they often cite really tight bonds with the people they served with um you know same with people you went to college with because that's just a very intense period of time um so i don't know i've always thought like it you know i'd love to nurture those relationships with people i meet more recently but you know i always come back to it's really hard to make new old friends right um so i was wondering if you had and and the reason i mentioned this is because in business people want to do business with people they like and they have a relationship with and they, they connect with. So it seems like it's a worthwhile skill to develop, not just personally, but professionally. So do you have tips for people on how to, how to do that in a, in a way that's authentic and real and, you know, it doesn't just signal, Hey, I'm only in this, you know, because I need something from you, but how do you, I guess, how do you make new old friends? In other words, lots of people tell me, well, you know, I keep my professional connections separate from my personal relationships and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally, I think I only want to work with people if I could choose, if I could really make a decision. And if I had a choice, I personally want to work with people that I would want to be friends with, not saying that I need to go and hang out with these people. But it tells me that these people are trustworthy, that I can trust them, that they will be trustworthy people. They will be honest people. They will be respectful people. So there's a set of core values that I look for in people. And that means that, you know, this person that I choose to work with or hire or partner with or collaborate with has to have these core values. And therefore, you know, I could work with them professionally. I could be their friend. They could one day we could be best friends, you know. So, for me, it's really about the core values. So, going back to your question, how do you make new old friends? First of all, understand what kind of people you're looking for. And I always tell people that, you know, one of the really great friendship strategies that I've applied so far is being a TEDx organizer. because well i can't take all the credit but the TED brand really attracts people that are curious and open-minded and want to learn about the world and want to change the world for the better good um so what's like a smaller version of being a TEDx organizer because it's a lot of work i'm telling everybody to do it uh but what's a what's a kind of a mini version of that is like hosting your own dinners hosting your own get-togethers and that doesn't mean you have to cook like you can just like hey let's have coffee on saturday at 3 p.m at this this venue or let's have dinner sunday whatever and you just set it up and you invite people and maybe you you know three people maybe these are your like friends from college right you bring them together like hey these are the three people these are kind of people i'm looking for hey you three people do you have friends that you want to introduce to me or friends that you think would be a good fit for this dinner table or this coffee meetup and you have to actually tell them what kind of people you're looking for depending on who you're trying to add to your circle at the moment you know if you're a mid-managed mid-level manager in corporate you're looking to find more more connections or more friends in that industry say for example then you'll be very specific i'm looking for this this and this x y and z whatever it is if you're just looking for friends yeah yeah i'm looking for like-minded people that are kind and generous and curious and open-minded and you know maybe they're nerds maybe you know there's particular ways to describe that group of people depending on what you're looking for and who you vibe with and automatically these people will kind of like think of of someone that you don't already know right and you tell them to bring them to invite them to dinner so it's like a second degree dinner thing and you know along the way you might find someone you meet someone and you like invite them to the dinner table so this is like a way to meet new people and then after that you kind of like maybe you don't get totally get along with everyone at the dinner table with all the new connections but maybe there's like two or three people that you're like oh these could be like my best buddies right and nurture those relationships you're like hey what about next week let's have coffee again or like hey i have this thing going on do you want to join me on doing this like i'm doing paddle i'm doing tennis whatever uh let's do something together right uh i feel like the world has really made all of this like not a normal thing anymore to ask people to join you to do things and i think that like before the digital world all of this was was normal you just do it but now like especially with a younger generation they're like no that's cringe you don't do that you don't ask people to do things with you and it's not a normal thing anymore but i think we should bring that back and make it normal yeah and and we know from you know a lot of the longevity science that that your community or your tribe has a big impact on your health span right i mean you know people who are part of strong communities live better longer lives so it's it's business it's personal it's all those things i like the the intentionality you talk about because you know college friends you just you didn't really choose each other for the most part you're just like stuck in the same dorm or on the same team or the same fraternity or whatever and it just sort of developed from there but what you're saying is hey you know you can you can be more intentional about this and you know develop the the circles that you want to so you're an executive coach and a sex therapist and those are two things you normally don't see in on one person's resume so what does one teach you about the other strangely enough um all of it is kind of the same thing to me it's just psychology it's like what motivates us to do things the way we do how does like our conditioning our parents uh our childhood and everything affect the way we do things you know how we do something is how we do everything we've heard this people say this right and it's so true so if you're not confident to say what you actually want in the boardroom or in leadership you're not assertive you're not able to give feedback to other people that kind of shows up in the bedroom as well so it's it's kind of like yeah how you do something is how you do everything and um yeah so my work is really I've found whether it's executive coaching or it's you know coaching high performing teams or whether it's couples or parents it's a lot of the the things that we talk about are really all about relationships you know even if I'm people would think oh when you're coaching a CEO or an executive like they're probably talking about business strategies and all that I would say most of the time the challenge for people it's like they already know the answer they already know how they're going to do something but it's something else that they're stuck with you know it's like a fear it's like a conflict it's like this inner conflict or like you know i know the the right way to go is this way but i want to keep going this way and there's something internally that really is about the pattern that they the childhood pattern to me it's really like if you understand your patterns you understand how you arrived at this conclusion that you know this is how you're going to do things and how this pattern actually started and you look at your their parents and your the example like who taught you how to do it this way and um you know where did you learn these um these beliefs from right it's it's usually from your childhoods from your upbringing and once you learn the new way of doing things you can apply that to every single um area of your life as well yeah so it's interesting you know you say how you do anything is how you do everything. So it strikes me that if there's some sort of dysfunction or angst or something not working in your personal life, that is naturally going to show up in business. So if you're a CEO or a founder, in my case, I work with a lot of founders, whatever's going on in the background is going to manifest as a business problem, I would imagine. So you work with CEOs, high performers and that sort of thing. So I'm sure, and I'd love to hear your take on it, or maybe an example or two of people who are objectively and outwardly successful, they've got it all, but privately not feeling it or unwell in some way. And what's going on underneath that? What's your experience with that? Yeah, so many people. and actually um i remember watching this this podcast and this guy that used to work um for the CIA he said that there is a correlation um with success and trauma and they would usually require like recruit people for the CIA that that had trauma because they're kind of like willing to do anything to survive and they they're they're they are a survivor you know so um there's a lot of um you know i'm not good enough therefore i need to prove to the world that i am good enough and that sometimes people use that to drive their success and to get accolades and the trophies right and so a lot of um high achievers overachievers are you know what's really underneath that is like i'm not good enough so i'm gonna keep going and going for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing but eventually um they're not happy and sometimes they burn out and sometimes they burn out and they keep going they still keep going and keep going and keep going and you know sometimes they realize midlife you know what what what am i doing i'm lost i don't feel i have all this money and the success but i don't feel fulfilled i don't feel happy you know some will kind of like go and do the inner work and discover like oh you know oh it was the trauma it was this and it was that and and you know you do the inner work and you heal and you choose a different path you know and maybe some will never actually go through that and they keep going and keep hustling and never realize that they are not you know they I think they know that they're not happy but not everybody wants to do something about it and they might just keep on going on that path and not really you know never find what happiness really means for them and actually Harvard's longest study on adult development and you know if people haven't heard about this research they can just look it up on YouTube it's a it's a really famous TED talk it's called what makes a good life and the talk was released like 10 years ago it talks about Harvard's longest running study on adult development they found that the number one factor that supports a human being to live a long healthy happy life is actually the quality of the relationships in your life not going to the gym not the food that you eat but it's the quality of the relationships in your life because that affects everything like even the money like the the money you make the lifestyle that you live everything is is a consequence of the people you spend time with Because, you know, we have these mirror neurons and we mirror what we see. And so you you you you spend a lot of time with people that are living an unhealthy life or an unhappy life. You kind of model that, you know, and it becomes your normal. It's kind of your baseline. It's like it's normal because all my friends are doing the same thing. Like everybody's miserable. So it's normal for me to be miserable. Right. But if you take this miserable person and you change their group of friends and you put them with five really happy people there, that person is going to question like, OK, there's something strange here. Like, why? What's going on with me? Like, what are the choices that I've made? Why are these people so happy and why am I miserable? You start questioning things. Right. And maybe you can make some changes. But, yeah, it's kind of like we attract people that are similar to us. It's kind of natural. And you end up on that trajectory, not realizing that, okay, I'm actually not happy. I want to change things. I don't even know how to. Yeah. And I think there's a tendency to externalize our happiness, right? It's always out there, which is why we need the trophy, the accolade, the trophy spouse, the title, the office, whatever it is, these are the things that are going to make us happy. And we forget that we can actually choose that right now, I guess. So what is IRL? And so give us the give us the foundation there and it will kind of build on that so IRL is an app that bridges your online and offline world and it's an app that tries to get you off the screen and so the the measurement of success for us is not like any other social media platform that tries to keep you eight hours on the screen doom scrolling and consume more and consume more and consume more so success to us for IRL means you go out and build and nurture real relationships in real life and I would love to hear these stories about relationships that actually come out from this app you know like oh I met my best friend on this app I met my kidney donor quite a stretch but I i i believe it will happen one day um i met my life partner i met my mentor i met my co-founder whatever on this app because of this app um i i met these people these amazing people so it's an app that bridges your online and offline world it helps you make introductions and connect people you know if i met someone that would i thought would be a great you know for whatever reason, friendship, career, business, sponsorship, whatever the reason, I would connect person A and person B and like, hey, you guys should know each other. But we do it on the app, we design it so that it's easy to make introductions, we normalize it, we show it to people like this is the behavior people should be doing. And when you make introductions, other people will want to make introductions for you as well. So law of reciprocity. And I learned all the things that I put into this through going from super introvert to super connector and then i realized that all the other people that were also super connectors they did the same thing whether it's hosting dinners inviting people hosting a gathering doing a book club doing initiating something i think being like initiating being an initiator is such an important skill um in life whether business or career like being the person that goes first being the initiator like let's do this and the opposite of that would be a passive person that just waits around and doesn't initiate anything just waits for people to initiate something right and so you can make intros you can host gatherings you can host dinners for your first degree secondary connections third degree connections exactly the dinner that i was sharing earlier you know you invite people and those people invite more people to the dinner table. And then it doesn't even have to be a dinner, it can be like a walk and talk in the park, and AI introductions as well. So we can't just rely on human beings to make intros for us. So we it is an AI, AI driven app. So AI has, you know, human beings, we have limited time, we are all very, very busy. And what I learned is that I have met so many amazing people and then i found out later like i met them on linkedin i met them through an ai super connector and i met them for like different different ways and then i learned later that actually like five or six of my friends knew this person like we had common like mutual friends but those five or six friends never introduced me to this person because there was no reason to and that's just not how that's not how we do things we don't go around hey introducing people to people all the time you just don't do it there has to be a reason for you to introduce someone and so humans can't do that but ai can right we should use ai to our own benefit ai has all the information detailed information on every irl user and in in irl on the app you would tell the app you know who am i looking to connect with who do i want in my circle what am i working on at the moment who am i it you you choose your core values your interests your passion everything so the goal is to get ai to understand as much as it can about you as a human being at different levels and layers and then it will do its best job to match you with someone depending on what your goals are let's say i'm a startup founder i want to meet VC i want to meet people that are investors or tech people so it will it will try to find like good matches and and do these warm introductions for you so that's what IRL is and it also is a personal CRM so it helps you maintain and manage and nurture all these relationships because we know how bad we are at maintaining relationships I've interviewed a ton of people some people do it on an excel sheet I do it on WhatsApp, I've tried 20 to 30 apps throughout my adult life, time like adult life, um trying to manage and have a system to manage all these relationships so it's kind of, it's a second brain that knows about all your relationships, it helps you be better at nurturing and maintaining these relationships, it will remind you to reach out to the right person at the right time so you don't lose people, you don't forget about people because it's, it's just you are going to forget, we are humans, we will forget, you know so why not have this AI that is like a personal assistant and second brain for all your relationships and when we become better at our relationships we become better human beings so ultimately this is an app that aims to make people better at their relationships form better relationships solve the loneliness pandemic you know, have more fulfilling relationships in your life, you know, uh it's, it's one of the, the most important pillars when we want to see human flourish and uh yeah, that's, that's what IRL is that is cool, it's so, it strikes me that you're using what has typically been associated with a degeneration of community you know social media and AI as a way to build it, right? So you're, you're kind of re-harnessing it, repurposing it and saying, no, we can actually do something with this. I think that's cool. Yeah. I think, you know, technology and tools, if humans use it the right way with a moral compass, with, you know, ethics and integrity, we can make it work for us. It's a good thing. You know, it's, it becomes dangerous when we're not careful with it. Sure. You know, companies kind of like just care about their stock prices more than, helping humans live a better life and um yeah, I'm, I'm all about building solutions to help people live a better life yeah that sounds like a great solution is it on uh on the app stores yes so it's on the app store now and um it will be released on Android this week okay probably this week latest next week yeah but by the time this episode is um published it will all be on on the app store and the it is on the app store and it will be on Android as well oh cool yeah i'll look forward to that and if people are interested in checking you out more about you know with the coaching and and the other work you do how can they find you um so LinkedIn um i i can share with you the links i probably have it on the show notes um LinkedIn um my name Need Alert on Instagram Need Alert official and yeah i have a website but you know if anybody wants to find out more about IRL they can go to join irl.app um and there are buttons and um ways to learn about IRL and download the app there as well all right cool i'll definitely check that that out well Nita thank you so much for sharing with us today i really appreciate it thank you John thank you so much for having me