Jack Ma: I've Had Lots Of Failures And Rejections | Davos 2015

Welcome, Jack Ma. Thank you. We've all become very cognizant of Jack and his story, and when Alibaba went public with the largest IPO in history, we knew a lot more about him. So I want to talk about his personal story. I want to talk about how many times he tried and failed and what kept him going. I want to talk about where he is today and how he got here and where he is going and how he expects to get there. And if he gets there, what will it all mean for him and for the people that he wants to inspire? I begin with this question, though, Jack. Why are you back at Davos? It's a long break for seven years. I think my last trip here was the year 2008. But I was coming for the year 2001 for the Young Global Leader for Tomorrow. And I can remember I never heard about Davos when I came. But when I came in Switzerland, so many young people demonstrated. It was such a horrible thing, and I asked them, why did they do it? They said, anti-globalization. And I said, why? Globalization is a great thing. Why people don't like it? And then we come all the way for two hours here. There's a machine gun. There's people checking us. They all go, is that a Fulham? Or is that Parisian? We're going to go inside. But when I joined the Fulham at the Young Global Leader, I was thrilled by so many ideas. For the first three, four years, I learned what does the globalization mean? What does the corporate citizenship mean? What about social responsibility mean? All these new ideas. And I see so many great leaders talking about leadership. And I benefit a lot. And the year 2008 and 2009, when the financial crisis came, I think it's better to go back to work. Because we can never win the world by talking. So go back, spend seven years. Now I come back, I think it's time to do something in return. I learned so much 12 years ago. So why I should not talk to the Young Global Leader of today, sharing with them how we've gone through. That was the thing. Let's start with where you are today. Just how big is Alibaba? How many people come every day? How many people come in a week? How fast is it growing? Yeah, we have over 100 million buyers visiting our site, shopping our site every day. And we created… 100 million every day. We created 14 million jobs for China, directly and indirectly. And we grow from 18 people to 30,000 people, 18 people in my apartment, to now we have four big campers. Compared to 15 years ago, we were big. But compared to 15 years later, we're still a baby. How big will you be 15 years from now? I think 15 years ago, I told my team that 15 years, in the past 15 years, we grow from nothing to this size. And 15 years later, I want people to know about Alibaba, know Taobao, because it's already everywhere. I want 15 years ago when we talk about what is e-commerce, why small business can use this e-commerce, use internet, can do business across the nation. And I hope 15 years later, people forget about e-commerce because they think it's like electricity. Nobody thinks it's high-tech today. This is something that I don't want 15 years later. We still walk on the street talking about why and how e-commerce can help people. Talk about the IPO. Did it exceed your expectations? Well, it's a pretty small IPO, 250. Yes, the largest IPO in the history of Wall Street. And number two was the Chinese bank. Thank you. I remember year 2001, we went to raise some five million, three million venture capitalist dollars in the USA and got rejected. And I say we come back raising a little bit more. But I think what we think more about is for $25 billion, how we can spend the money efficiently, because this is not the money, this is the trust from the world, the trust from those people. They want you to do better jobs, to help more people. They want to have a good return. So I think it gives me more pressure, because our market cap is bigger than IBM. On a certain day, we're bigger than Walmart. We're one of the top 10, 15 largest market cap companies in the world. I told my team and myself, is that true? We're not that good. Because years ago, people say, oh, Alibaba model is terrible. Does not make money, have this and that, all the big bad things, because Amazon is better, eBay is better, Google is better, and there's no such model like Alibaba in the USA. So I told myself and people, we were better than people thought. But today, when we are that big size, I said, no, we are not that good as people thought. We're just a company, 15 years old. Average age is 27, 28 years old, young people. We're doing something that human beings have never tried. I want to talk about the future. Let me take you back to when you were born in Hangzhou, where the headquarters still are. And your campus is there. Don't move your loot. Your headquarters are there. You found it there, loot there. You grew up in the 60s. Born in 64. That was the time of the Cultural Revolution? Yeah, it was the end of the Cultural Revolution. Well, my grandfather was a tiny landlord. After liberation, was considered a bad guy. I know how tough it was when I was a kid. You tried to get into three colleges. Each time, they rejected you. No, I tried. There was an examination that young people, if you want to go to university, you have to take the examination. So I failed three times. Not a lot of fail. I failed for funny things. I failed a key primary school test for two times. And I failed three times for the middle schools. You would never believe in Hangzhou, my city, there's only one middle school that lasts only one year. It was changed from primary school to middle school because our graduates of our school, no middle school accepted us because we were too bad. They would become a middle school. What effect did it have, though, being rejected? Well, I think we have to get used to it. We're not that good. Even today, we still have a lot of people reject us. I think when I graduate from universities, and before I, you know, for three years, I tried to fill in the universities. So I applied jobs for 30 times, got rejected. I went for a police. They said, no, you're not good. I went to even the KFC. When KFC come to China, come to my city, 24 people went for the job. 23 people accepted. I was the only one guy. And we went for police. Five people, four of them accepted. I was the only guy that received it. So for me, being turned down, rejected. Oh, by the way, I told you that I applied for Harvard for 10 times, rejected. I know I'll be rejected. Sorry now. 10 times you wrote them and said, I'd like to come to Harvard. Yeah. And then I told myself, someday I should go teach there, baby. I think that can be arranged. Richard Nixon came to Hangzhou. Yeah. And after that, tourists flooded the place. Yeah. And that's how you learned English. Yeah. I really liked the, I don't know why, 12, 13 years old, the time I suddenly fell in love into the language, the English. And there's no place you can learn English at that time. There's no books, English books. So I went to the Hangzhou Hotel, now called Hangzhou Shangri-La Hotel, because that was the hotel can receive the foreign visitors. So every morning for nine years, I showed them around as a free guide. And they taught me English. And I think that changed me. Today, I'm 100% made in China. I've never got a one-day train outside China. Yeah. And when people talk to me, say, Jack, how can you speak English like that? Why sometimes you talk like Western guys? I think that was the nine years. These Western tourists opened my mind, because everything they told me is so different from the things I learned from the schools and from my parents. So now I have a habit. Whatever I see, whatever I read, I use my mind. Think about it for two minutes. Is that how Ma Jun became Jack Ma? Actually, Jack, the name was given by a lady in tennis. She's a tourist. She came here. And she said she came to Hangzhou. We become friends. Ma Jun is so difficult to pronounce. So she said, do you have an English name? I said, don't. So can you give me an English name? She said, OK. She said, my father called me Jack. My husband called Jack. What do you think about Jack? I said, good. So I've been using that for that many years. First visit to America in 1995? 1995, yeah. I've come here for a project helping the local government to building up a highway. And you tried the internet? I tried the internet in Seattle. And in a building called the USA Bank. I don't know whether the USA Bank is still there or not. But it's a building. And my friend opened a small office, which is only 10% bigger than this room. And there are not much computers in there. And he said, Jack, this is internet. I asked, what is internet? He said, search whatever you want. At that time, they used mosaic, very slow. And I said, I don't use it. I don't want to type, because computers are so expensive in China. If I destroy it, I cannot pay. He said, just search it. So I searched the first word, beer. I don't know why, because it's easy to spell, baby. And I see beers from Germany, beers from the USA, beers from Japan. But there's no beer from China. And I say, OK, type the second word, China. No data. Nothing. 1995. No data about China. So I talked to my friend. Why not make something about China? So we made a small, very ugly looking page called China. It's something like I did a translation agency. We listed on there. It was so shocking. We launched at 9.40 in the morning. 12.30, I got a phone call from my friend. He said, Jack, you know, you got five emails. I said, what is email? And they said, these are the things. The people are so excited. Where are you? This is the first time I see a Chinese website on that. How can we kind of win? Can we do something together? So I think this is something interesting. So we should do it. Why did you call it Alibaba? Alibaba? Well, when I started, I think internet is global. We should have a global name. And a name that's interesting. At that time, the best name is Yahoo. So I've been thinking for many days. Suddenly, Alibaba is a good name. So I happened to be in San Francisco that day. I have a lunch, and a waitress came. I asked her, do you know about Alibaba? She said, yes. I said, what is Alibaba? She said, open sesame. Good. So I went on the street, asked about 10, 20 people. They all know about Alibaba, 40 seeds, and open sesame. And I think this is a good name. And start with A. Whatever you talk about, Alibaba is always top. You have said before that in creating Alibaba, you had to create trust. Yeah. Because people in China were used to face-to-face. Yeah. How did you create trust? I think because we started doing business on the internet. I don't know you. You don't know me. So how can you do things online unless you have trust? So for e-commerce, the most important thing was trust. I think when I first went to USA for raising money, talked to the venture capitalists, a lot of people say, oh, Jack, no, no, no, no, no, no. China doing business by the guanxi. How can you do business on internet? And I know that without the trust system, the credit system, it's impossible to do business. So in the past 14 years, everything we do is trying to build up the trust system, the record system. Well, Charlie, I'm so proud today when I talk to young people. Today in China and in the world, people don't trust each other. The government and people and media and everybody think, oh, this guy is cheating. But because of e-commerce, we finish 60 million transactions every day. People don't know each other. I don't know you. I send products to you. You don't know me. You wire the money to me. And I don't know you. I give a person a package. I don't know him. He took something to sell across the ocean, across the river. This is the trust. We have at least 60 million trust happening every day. But you created it by creating an escrow account in the beginning. Yep. And so you keep the money until they got the product. Yeah. And then you release the money. That's true. I mean, the escrow service is about Alipay. When I had this idea, I would have loved Davos because it was a big decision. Because for the first three years, Alibaba is just like e-marketplaces for information. What you have, what I have, we talk a lot of time, but don't do any business. Because there is no payment. I talk to the banks. No banks want to do it. Banks say, oh, no, this thing never work. So I don't know what to do. Because if I start to launch a payment system, it's against the financial legal laws. Because you have to have a license. But if I don't do it, e-commerce will go nowhere. So then I went to Davos. I listened to a leadership discussion. Leadership is about responsibility. And after I listened to that panel, I give a call to my friends, my colleagues in my apartment. I say, do it now, immediately. If something wrong, the government not happy about that, if one body has to go to the prison, Jack might go to the prison. Because it is so important for China, for the world, to build up the trust system. And if you do not do it, I say, and do not do it properly, stealing money, money wash, no trust record, I send you to the prison. So that was the thing. And people don't like it. So many people I talked to at that time for Alipay, they say, this is the stupidest idea you have ever got. But I say, I don't wear the stupid club as long as people use it. Now we have 800 million people using this Alipay. Stupid things you can do, but it's better. Alipay is a privately held thing. It's not part of Alibaba. No, it's a private. Let me talk about money for a second. You have never gotten money from the Chinese government? No. None? None. I want at the beginning, and later I don't want it. Because I think if the company always think about picking money from the government office pockets, that company is rubbish. Think about how can you make money from the customers and market, and then help customers succeed. That's our philosophy. No money from Chinese banks? No. At that time I want, and now they want to give me, I don't want it. All right. Your relationship with the government, what's your relationship? Here's what some say, that you have existed in an environment that's not, they have restricted competition for you. And that's a pretty good thing to do for a private company. Yeah. I think that the relationship with the government for us is very interesting. Because I've been working as a part-time jobber for a government organization called Ministry of Foreign Trade, 1997, for 14 months. And I learned that you should never rely on a government organization to do e-commerce. And I started a business, I told my people and team, be in love with the government, don't marry them. Respect them. And a lot of people say, well, you know, government officers talking about Internet, the censorship and this, that, and they worry about. I think it's the opportunity, it's a responsibility, talking to them. Tell them how Internet can help. So you tell them, we create jobs. Oh, yeah. I think a lot of people debate and fight against them. And in the first 12 years, anybody come to my office, I sit down, talking to them. How we can help the economy. How we can create jobs. Why China will improve by the Internet. I think because Internet at that time is new to any government. And if you convince somebody, then you have the chance. So today I'm very talkative. That probably, this is why I talk to so many people. So, I mean, if the government comes to you and asks you to do something for them. Normally, when government come say, Jack, can you do this project? I say no. I can introduce some friends who are interested in doing that for you. But if they continue to want me to do it, I say, okay, I do it, but I don't want, I don't charge. I hope next time don't come to me again. But recently, we help some government organizers do it. For example, every spring festival, the train ticket is so difficult. Hundreds and thousands of farmers work in the cities. In the spring festival, they go to the hometown. But when they order tickets on the other way, the whole system crashed for five years. So I told my young people, go support them. Don't charge anything. Because I don't want to see millions of farmers go back to city and they cannot buy the tickets. So it's something that, it's not for money. It's something, it's not for the government. It's for the millions and millions of people. They can buy tickets in the snowy night and they don't have to wait. They just buy, use mobile phone, online, they get ticket. One way stop along the route to where you are in that big IPO was Yahoo. Jerry Yang gave you, invested a billion dollars. Yeah. A billion dollars. Yeah. It turned out to be a pretty good investment for Yahoo. Yeah. But one time after another, you raised this money on your own outside of China with investors. Yeah, I'm very thankful for all the investors. Because 1999, year 2000, even at the Yahoo time, a lot of people say, this Jack is crazy. He's doing something that we don't understand. A lot of venture capitalists give you money because there is such an American model already there. But they say, Ali Baba, we don't see this kind of model. Right? They say Jack's crazy. Yeah, this is crazy guy. I mean, I remember my first time in Time Magazine, they called me Crazy Jack. And I think crazy is good. We are crazy, but we're not stupid. We know what we are doing. But if everybody agrees with me, if everybody believes our idea is good, we have no chance. So that's the money we raised, we're very thankful. So when our investors make a lot of money, I feel proud and honored. As you know, in the United States, issues have risen about privacy. Yeah. Google and Apple. And questions of whether the government should have access to buyers. How do you handle that if the Chinese government says, you know a lot about people. You have transactional relationships with lots of people. And they say, we want to be your buyers. Well, so far, I don't have this kind of problems around Chinese government. And I told them, any government, if you come here for the national security, anti-terrorist, or anywhere anti-terrorist, we work together. If it's a criminal, we work. The rest of that, no. I said, we are a business. The data is so precious. Because we don't know how. Because if we give to anybody, it's going to be a disaster. And also about privacy issues. I think, just like hundreds of years ago, people say, I would rather put money under my pillow rather than put it in the banks. But today, banks, they're special. They know how to protect money much better than you do. Privacy issues, all these kind of securities, today, we may not have the solutions. We don't have the answer. But I believe our young people have the solutions. In the next 10, 20 years, there will be breakthrough on that. And I'm fully confident on that. Your life is a testament to the idea that nothing is impossible. That if somebody says no, you say it's just the beginning. Where does that come from? Well, at the beginning, I thought when I was young, I said, everything's possible. Now I know not everything's possible. When you have something, you have to think about it. You have to consider about the others. You have to consider about the customer, society, your employees, your shareholders. There are so many things that I think if you continue to work hard, there's possibility. And I just feel that I'm enthusiastic about what we are doing. At the beginning, for the first five years, I just want to survive. But later, I think, wow, so many people's lives changed. I was so excited. For the first three years, we made zero revenue. Zero revenue. But we are so excited to continue to work. You know what happened? I remember many times when I go to a restaurant to have dinner. Somebody came. When I was trying to pay the bill, the owner of the restaurant came to say, sir, your bill is paid by someone. And the small note said, hey, Mr. Mark, I'm your customer of Alibaba Group, Alibaba platform. I made a lot of money, and I know you don't make any money. I pay the bill for you. And I remember one thing. One day that I was sitting somewhere in the coffee. Somebody sending me a cigar. I don't smoke cigar. But there's a note that, thank you very much. I'm your customer. And I remember the Taobao days. I went to Shangri-La Hotel in Beijing. When I get on the taxi, the man who opened the door for me, the boy at the gate, he said, Jack, thank you very much. I'm the service here. My girlfriend makes more money than I do on your site. And this is something that you know that it's not amazing. If you don't do it, nothing is possible. If you try to do it, at least you have the hope. The revenue comes from advertising and a smaller amount from transactional fees. Most of it from advertising. Tiny. Tiny from advertising? Tiny from advertising, tiny from transactions. Because we need big mass. Now we have more than 10 million small business. Power sellers selling our site to everywhere. So the transactions we have is second after Walmart. So tiny. Second after Walmart. Yeah. Tiny of the money. Already big as big. So you know, second after Walmart. I remember one of the senior management of Walmart guys came to Tanzu five years ago. He said, Jack, you know, you did a great job and blah, blah, blah. So I said, maybe in 10 years we'll be bigger than Walmart. He said, young man, you have a good hope. So I said, make a bet. I think in 10 years we'll be bigger than Walmart on the sales. Because if you want to have 10,000 new customers, you have to build a new warehouse and this, that. For me, two servers. What's your market cap versus Walmart today? I don't know. It's close. I think so. Maybe we should check later. All right. So where are you going? What does Jack want? I think because the name for Alibaba, we are internet company, happen to be in China. We have the same spirit and entrepreneur spirit like every great entrepreneurs in the world. And I remember the day when I started Alibaba. We want to have a mission helping small business doing easier. So next steps. Today, so many millions of small business using our platform to sell things. And over 300 million consumers buy things from our site. Cheapest. Efficient. So what I'm thinking about how we can make Alibaba a platform for global small business. My vision is that if we can help Norway small business can sell things to Argentina. And Argentina consumers can buy things online from Switzerland. And we can build up, which I called, I don't know, maybe the not right word, called EWTO. But EWTO is a great past century. But EWTO have so many big companies to sell things across the nation. Today, internet can help small business sell things across the oceans, across the nations. And I hope that we can serve 2 billion consumers. 2 billion consumers. We can help 10 million small business outside China. Help them. Outside China. Because I'm so, because we help the American farmers in Washington State. Almost 300 tons of cherries to China last year. Cherries. When we, before we sell, the ambassador of U.S.A. came to me and said, Jack, can you help us selling cherries? I said, what cherries? The fruits. He said, why not? I said, why not? Let's try. So that when we order, when we start to sell cherries, the cherries still on the trees. So we start a pre-order. 80,000 families order cherries online. So we pick up the cherries and ship them to China. Within 48 hours, we sell the cherries. The consumers are so happy. But we got a lot of letters complaining after three days. They say, why only 100 tons? Why we should not get more? So we sell, you know, last, two months ago we helped the Costco. We sell 300 tons of nuts to China. So I'm thinking about if we can sell, oh no, we're also selling Alaska seafood to China. So if we can sell seafood, if we can sell the cherries, why we cannot help American and European small business selling things to China consumers? China needs that. So this is what I want to do is that 2 billion consumers, China, Asia, developing nations, how we can let them buy things globally? Alibaba rode with the millions of people that went from poverty to the middle class in China. I mean, you were right there growing as they grew and increased. When you look at the international markets, you're doing well in Russia? Yeah. How well? We do pretty good in Russia. We do also pretty good in Brazil. In Brazil? Russia, I think now, I don't know, we are the, if not the number one, we are the number two or number three largest. E-commerce. I remember last year we had a campaign. The campaign is that a lot of Russian girls and boys want to buy things from China. You know how many days a Russian girl placed an order and received the products from China? Two years ago, four months. Even that, people are so happy about our thing. And last year, the campaign, within one week, we crashed the whole logistics system of Russia. You were also seen in Hollywood. Yeah. What are you doing in Hollywood? Well, I like the Hollywood innovation and the digital. I learned so much about the Hollywood movies, especially Forrest Gump. You love Forrest Gump. I love Forrest Gump. Why do you like him? Simple. Never give up. People think he's dumb, but he knows what he's doing. And I was very depressed the day, year 2002 or three, in the States. When I, oh no, no, no, no, a bit earlier than that. I was very depressed when I could not find another way for the internet. And I watched the movie, my friend, Forrest Gump. When I see him, I think, this is the guy we should learn from. Believe what you're doing. Love it. Whether people like it, don't like it, be simple. And like the word, life is like a box of chocolate. You never know what you can get, right? I never know I would be here talking to you and talking to Charlie Rose. I never know. But today I made it. I told my people in my apartment 15 years ago, guys, we have to work hard. Not for ourselves. If we can be successful, 80% of the young people in China can be successful. We don't have a rich father, powerful uncle. We don't have one dollar from bank, one cent from government. Just work as a team. So what do you worry about? I worry about it today, young people. A lot of young people lose hope, lose vision, and start to complain. Because we also have the same period. It's not a good feeling being rejected by so many people. We're also depressed. But later we find that the world has a lot of opportunity. How you see the world, how you catch the opportunity. So Hollywood gives me a lot of inspiration. But you're out there for business. You're out there because you want to make movies and sell them. I want to make the movie for business-wise. We are e-commerce company. We have a lot of products that need logistics. But movie, TV, these are things you don't need logistics system. And movie probably is the best product that can help Chinese young people to understand. Because one thing I told the Chinese people, my friends. In American movie, all the heroes at the beginning, they look like a bad guy. But terrible things coming, they become hero. And finally they all survived. China, if you buy movie hero, all the hero died. Because only dead people become the hero. So nobody want to be the hero. So you want to change the Chinese definition of hero. Yeah, I want to say hero. Today we have so many heroes who live in this world. Are you still writing these Kung Fu novels or just reading them? I read them and I start to write something. I think it's fine. Kung Fu is something you start to think about something that you cannot do. But if you have some luck, if you continue to practice, if you've got a good master, if you've got a good team, you're an expert. So at least it makes me, when I'm busy, when I'm tired or frustrated, I read Kung Fu books. You also travel with a Tai Chi. Am I saying that right? A trainer. Tai Chi? Tai Chi. Tai Chi, yeah. What does that do for you other than keep you in good health? I love Tai Chi. Tai Chi is a philosophy about yin and yang. Tai Chi is about how you balance, how you work, like a competition. People say when I compete with eBay, they say, you hate eBay. No, no, no, I don't hate eBay. It's a great company. They come, I go. Tai Chi is like, you fight here, I go over there. You put it on the top, I go to down. So it's about balance. Right? You are heavy, I'm small. When I'm small, I can jump. You're heavy, you cannot jump. Tai Chi is about a philosophy. I'm using Tai Chi philosophy in the business. Calm down. There's always a way out. And keep yourself balanced. And meanwhile, don't try to... Because competition is a fun. Business is not like a battlefield. You die or I win. Business, even if you die, I may not win. Right? So it's about fun. Tai Chi gives me a lot of inspiration. But you want your life and you want this company, Alibaba, to change the world. And you are changing the world. In fact, you provide a forum for buying and enable people to earn a living. But also, you believe that Alibaba ought to change the lives of women. So what do you do? First, I think many years ago, I want to change the world. Now, I think if we want to change the world, we change ourselves. Change ourselves is more important and easier than change the world. And second is that I want to improve the world. Because to change the world may be Obama's job. Because my job is to making sure that my team are happy. Because my team are happy, they can make my customers happy. If my customers, they are all small business. When they are happy, we are happy. About women, one of the secret sauce for Alibaba's success is that we have a lot of women. What percentage of women among Alibaba employees? I think two or three months before we IPO, there was an American journalist come to our company. She asked me a question. Jack, I see so many women in your company. I said, what's wrong? Later, we find that we have 47% of the employees of our company are women. How many? 47% of our company are women. And we actually had 51% because we acquired some company these days. They have more men, so balance that. But these are women in top-level positions. 33% of the senior management are women. And 24% of the senior management, very top-level, are women. We have a women CEO, CFO, CPL, Chief People Officer, and we have everywhere. And I think it's so comfortable to work with them. Because women in this world, if you want to win in 21st century, you have to make sure that making other people powerful, empower others, making sure the other people better than you are, then you will be successful. So I find the women, they think about the others more than they think about themselves. Women think about the kids, husband, parents much more than the men. And they use a friendliness. A couple of things I want to talk about before we go because we have less than a couple of minutes. China today, are you worried the economy slowed down? No, I don't worry about it. I think China's slowing down is much better than keep on 9%. China today is the second largest economy in the world. It's impossible to keep 9% of the growth. If China still keeps the 9% of the growth of the economy, there must be something wrong. You will never see the blue sky. And you will never see the quality. China should pay attention to the quality of the economy. China should not. So if we have a lot of influence, you know, like the Hollywood movies, things, and we have the sports, and these things in the GDP will be much better. So I think just like a human growth, you can never, this body can never grow, grow, grow, grow. Certain time, the slow of growth of the body will slow. But you should grow your mind, grow your culture, grow your value, grow your wisdom. I think China is moving to that direction. And you saw Modi in India? Pardon? Did you see Modi in India? Not yet. I'm looking forward to that. So you'll go to India. Finally, there's this. You're one of the world's richest people. Your company is one of the world's richest companies. What do you want beyond Alibaba? Well, the richest people. I was, I told myself I was really not happy in the past three months when people say Jack Ma is the richest people of China. Global celebrity, they said. No, I'm not. When I started the business. No, you are. You are. I never thought, because how many, yeah, maybe I am. Fifteen years ago, my apartment, my wife was at that time one of the 18 founders. I asked her, do you want your husband to be a rich person? I never said rich person in China. Rich person in Hangzhou. Or do you want your husband to be a respected person? She said, of course respected. Because she never believed, and I don't believe we'll be rich people. We just want to survive. I believe we have $1 million. That's your money. We have $20 million. You start a problem. You worry about inflation. Where we should start to buy and this, that, how to come. When you have $1 billion, that's not your money. That's the trust society give on you. They believe you can manage the money, use the money better than the government. I think today, I have the resources to do more things. With the money we have, with the influence we have, we should spend more time on the young people. I would say, someday, I'll go back to teach. Go back to school. Spend time with the young people and telling, sharing with them what I've done. The money is not mine. I just do it happily. Having this resources, then I want to do a better job. Just tell them your story. Tell them the story and tell them that if... I don't think in this world, a lot of people will be rejected more than 30 times. The only thing, we never give up. The only thing, we're like a forest of gum. We keep on fighting. We keep on changing ourselves. We don't complain. Whether you are successful or not successful, I find that when people, when they finish the job, if they make a mistake, if they fail, if they always complain to others, this guy will never come back. If the guy only checks himself, yeah, something's wrong with me here, something's wrong with me there, this guy has no hope. Jack, on behalf of everybody in this audience, and a television audience around the world, thank you for taking your time to be with us. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.