Jennette McCurdy & Drew Barrymore on Complicated Relationships with Mothers | Barrymore's Backstage

I just have to say that you're amazing. I came in and I felt very sort of like I've been doing a lot of press and I was sort of in like press mode and kind of like saying the thing and then just you sharing that. Thank you for sharing. And I felt like just an immediate connection and like the press walls kind of dropped. And then I was just like a human moment. I was voracious and went after you like a crazy person wanting to have a conversation with you because of the things I went through in my life and with my mom and growing up in this industry. First of all, this cover, I love you so much. The humor. How did you get to the humor of this? Did you earn it? Have you always had a sense of humor with? Well, with the title specifically, I always knew that I wanted it to be called. I'm glad my mom died. I wanted something that would be really bold and attention grabbing. And hopefully that people with a sense of humor would get, you know. And also, I think anybody with who's experienced parental abuse understands and I didn't feel so concerned. But I knew there would be, you know, some people who are like, I don't get that title, but I thought that'd be that'd be totally fine. And when people maybe don't get the the comedy and the tone. Yeah. How do they behave? And how does it make you feel? I try to stay off like Twitter, but every interview that I've done so far, the the interviewer has been sure to let me know, hey, that title is very divisive. And I think that anything we're saying is probably going to be divisive. I think if it's not divisive, it's probably there's probably no new conversation to be had there. So I felt it was an important and worthwhile title. Does someone have to die in order to be able for us to tell our truths? I think we at least have to write as if they have died, which is that old saying, right? Like, write as if everyone you know is dead. I've never heard that one before. I don't know who said it, but I'm pretty sure it's it's like a I think it's a saying. I don't think I just coined it. I know. I've never heard it before. I've definitely heard like write as if no one's reading it or dance as if nobody's watching. I mean, by the way, that's the new mug being sold on shelves. I'm actually asking honestly. Yeah. Like, do I have to wait to tell all my truths? I don't know if I can do it because certain people are alive. I understand. My thought on that is, I think if saying the truth ends a relationship, I think it's probably a relationship that needed to end, I guess. Does that make sense? Like it does. It probably there was probably some painful, uncomfortable truth that was just needing to be expressed for a long time. And if saying that out loud is going to end the relationship, I think it's probably better off not being in a person's life. How do you get over guilt and shame if they're still alive in order to tell those truths? Hmm. Oh, my God. Guilt and shame are tough. I really I struggle to navigate guilt and shame for a long time. I would get them confused. And I was told by a therapist that I loved that guilt can sometimes be worthwhile because it can say, oh, maybe there's a correction to be made in like a life path or a lifestyle choice, but that shame is not really worthwhile, that it kind of keeps you stuck and can like spiral. That was really helpful to understand, I think, the nuances between the two. So I would say the shame, the shame is is is. I just don't think it's a valuable emotion, really. But I do think with guilt, do you think it's warranted guilt? Do you think it's unwarranted? I think when it comes to our moms, we want so badly to have this relationship that I can't even say society says we're supposed to have. It is nature. It is nurture. It's evolution. When you met your therapist, is it true that you were like, my mom's great? Things are good. Everything's awesome. I just have to say that you're amazing. I came in and I felt very sort of like I've been doing a lot of press and I was sort of in like press mode and kind of like saying the thing and then just you sharing that. Thank you for sharing. And I felt like just an immediate connection and like the press walls kind of dropped. And then I was just like a human moment. Oh, I can't wait to talk to you so much. I'm just as much here to ask advice. I relate to your journey so much. I feel like I have a lot to learn from you. Oh, man, I really do. I'm so glad you said that, because I don't think of this as the same thing. I wanted I just was like, can I please talk with her? I one human being to another. Yes, that feeling is just. Yeah. Wow. And also, I knew I could trust you because you did have comedy in there when it's all so dark and heavy. I'm like, I don't want anything to do with you. If you found comedy as a coping mechanism, we have nothing to talk about. It's so easy that I feel like I can't take somebody seriously if they're too serious, because I'm like, they don't. Where's the humor? Like there are shades to reality. It's never just dramatic. It's never just funny. It's always layered and messy and gunky. And that's juicy. You know, I couldn't agree more. Because as actors, you're like, put it all out there. You think you're so out there. But like that dark stuff that's in there, it's real deep and buried. Yes. So how did you start your therapy journey and how did you start to unpack? Well, initially, when I when I went to therapy, I did have my mom still on the pedestal. And every time I felt defensive immediately when my first therapist, Laura, started asking questions about my mom. Immediately I went into, well, she did this, but it's because she's such a good mom. It's because she wanted me to be successful. It's because she wanted me to have a better life. Like everything had a I was so defensive. I didn't even realize that I was at the time. But in retrospect, I see. Oh, I was disclaiming every single thing that my mom did instead of just stating the reality or how I felt about it. It was I was more concerned with how I how to keep my mom looking good than I was with expressing my true emotional reality. OK, I think I'm having an aha moment. Tell me. Maybe it's protectiveness that I feel. Mm hmm. I've never put it in those terms in my head. Wow. I got chills. It's like I don't want to paint her negatively. I don't want people to think of her negatively. Yes. But the truth is tough stuff. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, I. It took me a long time to accept that my mom. Was not perfect, let alone abusive, like it went in baby steps to to put these pieces of the puzzle together and to recognize the reality of the pain that I'd suppressed for decades at that point, you know, I first went there when I was 20, 22 or 23. What did your therapist do that made you feel like you could keep going? Because I think it's interesting because at many different therapy approaches, many different styles, people who are out there maybe wanting to open up to therapy. Yes. What's the red flag? What's the green flag? What was it for you? Interestingly, I'm only now piecing this together. But so I left my first I talk about this aspect in the book, but I left my first therapist when she suggested I was telling her kind of stories of my relationship with my mom. She said, hey, what you're expressing is is abuse. Are you aware of that? I broke down. I quit therapy that night. And it makes you want to run away. Oh, yeah. Maybe it was too harsh, too fast. Yes. Like I started with eating disorder with an eating disorder specialist. So it was very clinical, very checklist pen and paper. And we didn't get into trauma or childhood stuff. We didn't get into any of that. And I think I needed that at the time because I think I needed to get that addiction under control before being able to go anywhere near like excavating the stuff from the past. I think that was it would have been too. I think that would have fueled the addiction if I were working on that in tandem with the addiction. So you had positive experiences breaking down one of the aspects of what you needed to work on. And your eating disorder has a history. Oh, yeah. I mean, your mom talked about calorie control when you were young. Eleven. Yeah. I mean, the way your mom spoke to you. It obviously so unacceptable that we find as adults now who know better. But how do you know what's OK and not OK when you're a kid? I I feel like the thing is when like. When you're a kid, you don't know that you're in a traumatic situation or that you're in a not normal situation because it's just your reality. You have nothing to really compare it to. It's just so your own your own experience. So I had no idea that I was in a traumatic environment to me. That's where some of the comedy actually comes from, is because it's like that denial, innocent child point of view. So my mom would be chasing my dad around the house with a kitchen knife and I'd be like rooting her on. I would go, Mom, like you got this. And it's like, yeah, that's messed up. But when I was six, I didn't know that was messed up. My dad used to come in and break. He used to come in our house and break everything. And my mom and I would come home to like the entire house, like just ransacked. And it you know, I was like, well, I could I know this weirdly. I was so rational with my dad. I don't know how he got a free pass. I was like, you're an incapable person. You are totally screwed up. Talk to me about what happened with your dad. So after I guess this was maybe a year and a half after my mom died, my who I thought was my father told me that he was not actually my biological father. What was your first reaction? I remember feeling like I got the wind knocked out of me. My mouth was really dry. And I I think I hugged him and then his then girlfriend sort of like joined the hug. She was well-meaning. But I was like, OK, this is just a hug between us two. We don't need another embrace on top of it. Yeah, I feel like that always happens when there are two people hugging. And there's like a third person standing in the room who feels left out. They're like, I guess I should join. And they start joining. We're like, oh, this is excessive. God, I think sometimes they have been that third person hugging probably more often than not. And I believe that's a license to hug. All right, let's bring it in. It's probably hard to know how to react. Did you and did you say, OK, this person's not my biological father, but he's been there as a father? I didn't feel that way. I felt that he had always been pretty disengaged and disconnected. So it was shocking. But I I also started to find excuses for him in that information. Meaning, oh, well, that's why he was so absent all those years. Not really realizing, well, that that wasn't. Oh, also, you know what he said to me? He said, it's not your fault you were born. He repeated and then he repeated it. He like doubled down and then tripled down. And I thought, like, this is the weirdest thing to say to somebody after you've just told them that you're not their biological father. What did he mean by that? I don't know. He I don't know. I really. Have you ever asked him? No, I just didn't. I sort of just that was that was a relationship that I kind of let dissolve, let disintegrate. It wasn't there wasn't really much there to begin with. And so you were like, here is my green light to not have shame or guilt and move on. Initially, I felt a lot of guilt and tried to really work on that relationship and and and, you know, see him and his. Then I guess maybe she became his wife shortly after that. I tried to see them quite often and then it just didn't feel right in my bones. I just felt like this is that I what we're talking about. There's no real connection here. It just doesn't feel it just doesn't feel right in my bones. And and so then I just have time allowed you to start to disengage. Yes. Yes. What about your biological father? I I went to meet him and we had a really great kind of first conversation and then we saw each other for maybe three to four months, once a week, probably for that amount of time. And then it got to a place where that one felt a little a little strange. Also, my brothers, I have three older brothers. Yes, you have three brothers, two of your biological brothers. Yeah. And they hadn't met him. And I was sort of doing the thing of like trying to get them to meet him and thinking like, oh, this could be good. This could be healing for all of us and to build that family. Exactly. Oh, my God. That was my goal from. Oh, my God. Being a little girl was I want a good family. I want a good family. I really understand that wanting to create the nuclear family like you. You will make it work. You know, you and I found my friends. You know, now I have two kids and a huge family. And when their dad and I didn't work out, that was that took me down. Like that was it. I was like, this was the almighty plan. I didn't know if I would even ever have children because of my relationship with my mom. And then when I did and it didn't work out, I didn't think I could experience more trauma, failure and emotions than when that happened. I was like, oh, this is the big one. I thought that happened when you were 13 or blah, blah, blah. OK, we can always be surprised that the nervous breakdown is going to happen at 40 and not 13 in a mental institution. What a revelation. OK. I but I we are we're now doing great. You fake it till you make it. Put those kids first. We're like a model of co-parenting. I really mean it. Like, I'm so glad we got there. We're survivors. You get there, you make it. But do you ever do you want children? Do you think about having children? Do you have a vision of what that is? Are you like what is your feelings about? I don't think I want children. I'm open to my mind changing on it. Like it so far hasn't seemed appealing to me. But I wonder why. Oh, my God. I know. As soon as I found out I was having a girl, I was like, oh, here we go. Let's get on that karmic wheel and fix this. And then I found out I was having a second daughter and everything changed. Really? I was like, oh, mm, ah, you're going to raise girls. That's your purpose here on this planet. Wow. And it changed everything. Oh, my God. Yeah. Oh, that's so nice to hear. Oh, my God. It was a real relief. I know this. I know I don't want to have kids from like to to to get an identity. You know, I feel like I'm lucky there because I've done a lot of work on my identity and myself and feel clear, as clear as possible, I think, for 30. And I know that will continue to evolve and change. And I expect that. But I also wouldn't want to have kids out of any sort of boredom or to save a relationship. Those are kind of the three things where I feel like, oh, if I don't do those, I think I'm off to a good start. You are so healthy. I mean, really, you are just so healthy. This journey of self-awareness, methodologies, opinions, insights into life are so profound and they're paying off so much. I have to say, I think you'll be an amazing parent if you choose to be one. Thank you. I really do think just have your head on so straight and you're so clear on everything. And I think us who didn't have a certain type of love, maybe even have more of it to give as a last question, if I may. Who are you now? Oh, that's a big that's a giant last question. That's huge. That's really big. Who am I now? You know, I feel the simplest answer, I guess, is that I feel like myself. I feel like I lived so long being sort of who I thought I needed to be for different situations. And and I feel like I never could have sat down here and just talk to you as me. Like, it's so powerful to be able to to feel like I can be authentic and feel like I can be me in my skin and not have to run from that and pretend to be somebody that I just don't that I know deep inside is not me like that's I do think kind of so many people relate to that specific journey, whether or not they're in the entertainment industry or acting or what have you. I think that that journey of authenticity, that's the corniest way of phrasing it, that it can possibly be. It's true. It's a like, you know what I mean? Tell your truth. You'll be OK. Yeah. Yeah. I think just I think just, yeah, being being authentic, there's such a a nice feeling to it that's like can't be taken away or or compromised. And that feels really it feels like legitimate strength, not like overcompensatory strength. Oh, big word. Hmm. Take a point. Love big words. I am so happy to meet you. You too. It's so helpful and healing. Thank you so much for everything that you're putting out there. And I just, oh, I love you. I'm glad my mom died is available now. Everybody knows about it because it's a bestseller and it's being downloaded and breaking records. And that's what the truth can do. Hmm. Thank you, Jeanette. Thank you so much for having me. This has been like so amazing. Oh, my God.