Stephen Curry Interview (Part 1) | LeBron James & Steve Nash | MIND THE GAME

You deserve a little bit of putting me out to pasture. A little bit of my retirement story. He sent you all back? Oh yeah, look at what I do. Yeah, he sent you all back. I'll go ahead and put him on down. It's not something I like to talk about in public. In public a lot. You know, when he came in the league, I still felt like the big brother. I still feel like, you know, I got the upper hand. Then he started becoming who he is and the pendulum shifted. My last two years with the Lakers, my second game with the Lakers, I bumped knees in Dave's first game with Dave and broke my tib-fib joint on the inside where it's weight-bearing, it's a problem. It's where the nerve goes. I already had nerve stuff and I was never the same. I spent two years working out twice a day just to try to overcome it. So I come back, my 18th training camp, and I'm like, I've been going so hard trying to get there. I had a pretty good first preseason game. I think we drove home from San Diego and I had a back spasm the next morning. I was like, I don't know, I was doing all right. And then I was like, another flare-up. My nerves were messed up. I couldn't recover. And I was like, well, I've got to find out. So I had a week since I last played and I was like, we're playing them in preseason. I'm like, I've got to find out. I have to play her. Can I play her? Or else what's the point? And so we went to play these guys' preseason in Ontario, California or somewhere. I don't even remember this. I remember the game. It was in Ontario. I knew it. We came out. I'm guarding Steph. I think they put up like 50 in the first quarter. Maybe it was 45, but it felt like a 50 piece. He's running everywhere. I'm like, back is broke. Everything's jacked. I could have stopped him if I was 100%. And now I'm like dragging around. Stevie Kerr's putting me in every action. I'm looking over at Steve like, come on, Stevie. I think that we know. You know he's over there smiling too. They're laughing at me. Alvin Gentry over there laughing at me. Like, no, no, no. I'm just trying to see what you got. I'm like, man, literally like three more, four more days of thinking on it. I was like, yeah. It's time. I think it's time. I think it's time. And that was it. I called Mitch. You put him out of his misery. You called Mitch. I called Mitch. My hero. He pulled me out. Oh, man, that's classic. Next thing I know, he showed up at practice and was teaching us pick and roll. If you can't beat him. Draw it on. Cheers. One this way and one that way. Yes, sir. Thank you for doing this. It's our first official golf podcast. Yeah, they heard mind the game. They thought the game was basketball today. It was actually not. We say mind the team. I was watching the Bryson DeChambeau. Oh, the break 50? Break 50. I mean, I knew you were good. I was losing my mind. I only watched half. You matched him. I watched the whole thing. I mean, that's being kind. My first shot, I lost my mind too. There's like a little small gallery behind that was following us. And so I knew the whole concept. I knew it was Bryson. It was a week before the Ryder Cup. I'm like, all right, it's go time. And it's the best, I think, golf I've played in my life. And it's so funny. I was watching one of the holes. I don't know what hole it was. And you was like, I'm going to give it a little grunt. One of his drives in. And he got him on the drive. And Bryson, obviously, this is what he does. He's obviously one of the best in the world. And when they got up to the ball, he was like, I think that's your ball. And he was like, oh, man, I out drove him. It was crazy. He didn't want to give it to me. I think one of the good parts, too, that I was watching, too, and I think Bryson asked you a question like, who was your inspirations? Obviously, in the game that we all love. And you mentioned Steve. And you mentioned Reggie. And obviously, Reggie makes so much sense. And it's terrifying to competitors like myself and all the competition over the years. How did that – what made you kind of watch those guys from the beginning? You know, it's funny that I'm sitting across from you talking about my life. So that's – I mean, we all got history in the game, playing against each other and the whole deal. But my rookie year, we played in a preseason game outside in Palm Springs. Indian Wells Tennis Center. Yeah, in Indian Wells. It was my first time, like, actually seeing him on the court and to the point of inspiration. Super intimidated. Just seeing him across. I still do some of your – when you're in the starting line or the national anthem, the line. I used to do, like, the little leg stuff. I still do it. I was watching everything he did from across the court. But growing up, like, I knew – I was a pass-first type point guard. Yeah. Like, my dad had to actually tell me to shoot more. Bullshit. Nah. Call Dale Curry right now. He'd tell you. They actually had to tell me to shoot more. He was like, no, no, no. Because I was – Not in this house. You ain't going to be there. But I always, like, just loved the creativity, being like – I felt like we had similar statures where as a point guard being able to, you know, handle being in the trees, getting the ball where you needed to. You saw angles that didn't even make sense. You could change the speed. You could control the tempo. Got everybody involved. Like, there was just something fun about that. That is the way that I, you know, wanted to play. Fast forward to Davidson. I was a two guard and had to kind of expand. I always – there was a video of me as a 10-year-old running around with a Reggie jersey just because, you know, I just loved his competitiveness and the way he moved off the ball. I didn't know, like, that would be a huge part of my game once I got to, like, how am I going to actually make it to the league type vibe. But that was – your style was, like, exact. I just tried all the behind-the-back passes this day, one-handed, left-handed, like, all that type of stuff. Just seeing the floor a little differently. I felt like he was kind of the model for that, too. And what about your pops, too? I mean, obviously the inspiration that you saw every day, but, like, as your pops being a pro itself, anything like you took from his game, like, I mean, the quick – The quick release was crazy. The quick release. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every video you see of him, you see him in the corner, one here, one dribble, and then the quick release. He had the high arcing release, too. Yeah. I couldn't get that. So it was, like, almost comparison and contrast of I want to be a great shooter, I want to have a quick release, but I also have to own my own form. Right. I can't really – It has to go in at the end of the day. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? You got to feel comfortable with what you're doing. But did you guys ever talk about it, like, quick release? Yeah, we talked about that a lot when I was in high school, changing my form. I used to do, like, the little slingshot situation, and to the point of seeing – when I watched myself on camera, it was like, that thing looked like it'd take forever to get up there. But to your point, it went in. But as I got to varsity, I was like, you know, that thing's getting swatted to the eighth row. And you was able to dissect that? No, my dad called it out as I was making that transition. I wasn't with it at first. Like, I was – because I knew he was going to have to break down all the fundamentals of everything that I felt comfortable with to then master, like, a new form. You felt like it too much. Yeah. It was like, I don't want to do extra credit on the homework. I already know the formula. I got to recreate it, and obviously it worked. But I feel like someone who loves shooting, shot a million shots, always obsessed with it, watching you shoot – like, I think I have a bit of a classic shot. I'd get it to, like, Clay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get it to the pocket and shoot. What I think you brought to the game – and I'd love for you to tell me I'm full of it – is you don't really stop. So, like, you talked about this shot as a kid to now. It's the same shot but up here. Like, I don't really feel like you stop. And if you do, it's like the split second. Only probably on, like, just standard catch and shoot. I always tell people, like, I would teach Clay's form to anybody who said, hey, how do I shoot a basketball? So I would, like, pull up a clip of Clay. And it's just, that's freaking perfect. 10 out of 10, no notes, right? But to your point, it helped me off the dribble because it's kind of – I'm going to call it unorthodox, but it is a one-piece shot that, no matter if you're really all the way on balance or just off, or if you've got it on the right hand, left hand, off the dribble, like, whatever it is, I kind of can get it here quick enough that – Through the zone. And I still have all my power. I don't lose anything through that. So that's helped me, especially at 6'3", like, in the league. No matter who's in front of you, you really feel like I have a chance. As long as I get them to drop their hands a little bit, I can get it up there quick, and I don't want to have any wasted motion. Was that by design, or was that just happened? That's just how I shot it. There wasn't much thought to that part, other than when I was in high school doing that transformation, I guess you'd call it. Because I also feel like that is a part of your range, is that you, like, instead of stopping and having to use all your legs, you're using it all in one motion. So, like, he just kept backing up. Where's this going? And it's like a flick. I had a lot of opportunity to see it last summer, the first time I was joining forces. I got to see it after practice every day, just like a flick. It didn't matter – you know, certain guys in our league, or certain basketball players all over the world, they have to get in a certain pocket. In order for them to even get to here. It's like, when he touched the ball, by the time he does what he needs to here, it doesn't matter where it's coming from. It can come from here, come from here. Quick, quick, quick. And that's a great question. It's like, did that – did you learn that, or it just kind of happened? And it's like, no, it's just – It's kind of natural. It's kind of just natural. Getting reps up, yeah. Like, there's always a reset, like summertime, when you're working on mechanics. Like, my guy, Brandon Payne, he'll talk about it, and if I miss two or three in a row and he starts looking, I'll know it's because I don't have the ball. Like, if we're talking middle of the frame, I don't have it more middle to right. Like, I'm more kind of doing that. That's just a – you get a little lazy. But I still have to call that out. But then once you get into the game and the flow, there's not much thought to it. But it's interesting because, like, necessity is the mother of invention. You kind of invented something. Like, you've gone on to be the greatest shooter of all time by, like, a long margin. Like, range, accuracy, dexterity, off the move, left, right, leaning in, leaning back. Like, you do it all. But, like, I don't know if you could do that if you had picture-perfect form. I'm not saying you don't, but you invented a way of going through the zone, like you said, off the dribble, like it's up. Yeah. And that gave you more range and that gave you more dexterity. Like, by the way, it's not really recreatable. I'm not telling kids, hey, it's so great. No, no. So, Bruce Frazier, we use you as an example a lot when I'm doing a breakdown drill. Like, I'll do, like, pre-game stuff or after-practice stuff where to the point of being able to get to my base, like, he'll bring you up as a demonstration of, like, you use, you have such a solid foundation where, you know. Get your hips down. You get your hips down, get low, like you're feeling every part of your foot, your feet, and you're using all of that force to kind of get through. Pushing in the ground. And that's a foundation you have to have to then build off of that, you know, creativity and that looseness up top. Yes. So that's, like, that's part of the natural progression of foundation to confidence to then, okay, now I can experiment a little bit. So maybe it's not necessarily a thought. It's like you hammer that down so much that now I have the ability to say, okay, what's going to help me in the game? Right. Or if I need to stay out of the trees, I can get my range back. Right. I got that's in there because I have this. And if I always, I still have to go back to that will. Yeah. Like, we do our stuff at the free throw line where you're doing, like, the spins. Yeah. You got to be, you know, in balance. That's your world. Like, that's what I learned. But I also think one of the most impressive things, I know we're going to talk about a lot of things, but the most impressive thing is that you came in, you know, 6'2", whatever, and obviously super skinny. Super skinny. You know what I'm saying? Like, I remember, like, super skinny, fresh out of Davidson, super skinny, and obviously you know our league, you know, throughout the course of a season, flights and everything, you know, can be taxing on your body. Yeah. I think one of the most impressive things that a lot of people don't talk about when it comes to you is that the weight and the strength that you've put on and still being able to shoot the ball in that capacity. There's a lot of guys that we've seen come in at a certain weight or a certain, you know, body frame, and they're told to put on weight or they're told to put on strength, and it can affect their shot. You know? And it's actually, there's no way it could have made it better, but ----, it seems like nothing ever changed. How was that, like, did that worry you in the beginning? Like, oh, ----, y'all telling me I got to get stronger now? Funny story. So, like, my rookie year in training camp, so I came in as, you know, a shooter in the draft. Right. Don Nelson was my coach, and going through training camp, sorry, Summer League started, I think I probably shot, like, low 30s. Yeah. Three in Summer League, and then you're coming into training camp, you know, a couple months later, like, still working, getting through, trying to get comfortable with where shots are coming from, and Don Nelson, he went in the weight room, because to your point, I came in 180 pounds, maybe. Mm-hmm. They were trying to get me in the weight room, doing all these lifts and stuff. I'm shooting, like, trash in training camp, like, the first week. He walked in there and cussed out everybody in the room. It was like, y'all killing the shot. He's lifting too much weight. And to me, I didn't know that was a concept, because, like, I always just wanted to get stronger. Right. Like, most of it was just vanity. Like, hey. You look better in a jersey. All these mirrors around here, y'all telling me I got to look like this, and I'm trying to look like this. I mean, I'm trying to pop. Like, give me something. But I didn't even think about it in terms of shots. I know that there's a range of, like, body composition that matters to making sure everything moves right. So if you're doing a big transformation, you can't change how your body moves. I never thought I could get to that point. But then when he called it out, I was like, wait. Are they really messing up my shots? But that balance of being able to appropriately, like, get your body to move efficiently. A lot of it, to me, is core strength. Like, if we're talking specifics, everything is about the foundation. Like, how does your body move through that range where you have, you know, complete control of, you know, your movement patterns. Not necessarily, like, brute strength, but efficiency, right? Stability. Yeah, movement patterns. After 18 seasons of NBA travel spanning from Vancouver to Phoenix to Los Angeles, I know the importance of arriving ready to perform. 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Real plates, actual metal silverware, and they're pouring sparkling wine like it's nothing. The entertainment screen is huge, and get this, being up front means you're not stuck waiting forever to get off the plane. Transform your next international journey with Emirates' premium economy. Trust me, it's the MVP of travel experiences. Book your elevated experience at emirates.com slash U.S. I want to talk about, or hear about, like, your summer routine, your shooting routine, that's a legendary work ethic. But you came in the league with ankle problems. And physical therapists will tell you that the glutes, hips, strength has a lot of connection to ankle stability. It takes, obviously, a lot of the pressure off the ankles. When you went through all that stuff, first of all, I'd love to hear, looking back, were you ever worried? Like, is this it for me? Like, am I going to be put in this little box of can't move like I want to move? And then, two, getting that hip strength. I've heard about your deadlift strength. Walk us through that a little bit. Yeah, after my second year, I had my first surgery. And I told my wife, like, there was a moment in rehab, sitting in the basement of my house in Charlotte, you know, like a three-and-a-half, almost four-month rehab, just on that, to the point where I wasn't even rolling my ankle, like, landing on somebody. I was doing the one where, oh, we're catching a transition, I'm pushing off, and that thing would flip. And I'd look back, like, what? Like, bambi legs. Like, literally, I just couldn't stay on my feet. And to your point about learning your body, right? Like, learning how it moves, learning what. You didn't have that problem in college? No. I rolled my ankle one time in college, the traditional way, where I was coming down the lane, going up for a layup, and planted on somebody's foot and rolled it. That was my junior year. But I didn't really have anything coming in that was of concern. But to the point of the volume of games in the league, the physicality of the league, travel, all that stuff, I got week after week. I wasn't doing things to keep up with the pace. And it caught up to me where the whole chain was compromised. And I had to learn all of that on the fly post the second surgery because at first we thought, like, is it the shoes I'm wearing? Is it I got those big Forrest Gump-looking ankle braces that I still wear now? And you're just like, what is the problem? I feel strong. Doing everything right. I feel coordinated, but I can't necessarily get through the full season. So learning your body, breaking it down from the beginning of, to your point, core strength, glute strength, the entire chain that can show itself in strength or weakness down in your ankles. And for me, like, the most boring, monotonous work you've ever done in your life, right? Every day. The little muscles down there. The little muscles, proprioception-type stuff, movement patterns. And there was definitely some dark days of, one, you know, getting this league. I remember when we came to your camp when my junior year, UNCP gave us this whole, like, freaking just speech on it. Y'all think y'all nice now, but when you get to the league, everything resets. Like, you have to earn your way. And I'm thinking that just means, like, production on the court. I ain't know nothing about the off-the-court stuff. You know what I mean? So that was the learning curve of trying to figure out how you're going to survive in this league. And if I couldn't even be available, how do I even know am I good enough? How can I get to that level? And there was a lot of fear and doubt in that moment, for sure. Because you feel so far away from yourself. But especially if you know, like, I know I belong. I know my game translates. But my body is not even allowing me to get to that point. You know, so you can only imagine, like, frustration. Like, you know, like, I know my work ethic. I know the work I put in. But, ----, my body is not even allowing me to even get to that, to even show what I'm capable of doing, too. So definitely. Especially in those early days when you're, like, trying to prove yourself. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Show everyone I belong. You have those little moments. You have a couple good games. You're like, oh, yeah, I belong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Having said that, that struggle kind of made you who you are. Yeah. Right? Like, as far as the shooting. Like, it went up with the strength in the hips. Came the strength in the ankles. Came the dynamic movement. Like, I mean, your fitness levels. We'll get to the style of play. But if it wasn't for that process, it's almost like maybe you didn't shoot 42% from 27. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? I think there's an understanding of not taking anything for granted even to this stage in terms of longevity that I learned then that is carried, you know, to this day of how I approach, you know, the offseason, how you approach the recovery days, how you approach even just priming yourself for a practice. Like, I can't just walk on the court. Like, there's steps you got to take, you know? Yeah. I think we go hype each other up a lot in this thing. But like, walking into the locker room last year for the Olympic journey, like, we hadn't played with each other. Like, I'd heard about the work ethic and the sheer volume of time and how he takes care of his body. But when you see somebody on that level, couldn't beat him to the gym in the morning. But it was like the idea there was just an energy of, like, we all know this. This is the stuff that makes you who you are on the court that's going to prepare you for the moments when the lights are bright. I don't even think we talked about it. It was just an unspoken, like, this is what you do. And I learned that, you know, early in the process to know, like, don't take that for granted so that you can be your best self. And it's like there's no accident when it comes to being who you are. So no matter how you learn it, how you get there. Tell me about, like, as someone that was obsessed with shooting, too, you know, needed to be able to shoot at our size or else you're stealing. I mean, you know, made me real quick to be able to shoot the ball, right? What was your approach and your routine and, like, how did it develop and how did it change? Like, you know, as a kid, you just go out and shoot because you love to shoot. Then you're like, oh, dad says I should practice. And you hear people, you start practicing purposefully. Then, you know what I mean, then you get to college. How did it go through to, like, now you have this, you're chasing greatness. Like, I've seen you in person. We've worked together. I watch you from afar. Like, everything is intentional. Yeah. Like, tell me about, like, how you approach shooting. I always tell the kids now, like, nobody should have to tell you you should go to the gym, right? Like, as a kid, I was that type of kid. I was blessed to have the opportunity to find a gym wherever. My dad played in the league, so it's not like, you know, the access wasn't there. But he couldn't be the one telling me, you know, it's 8 o'clock. Like, 7 o'clock, what are we doing today? Like, if I'm not the one pushing that, like, start there. And it always became just a joy of, you know, the game and finding ways to, you know, get a little bit better. It sounds real cheesy when you think about it, but the idea of every day, like, I was just exploring, like, trying stuff, you know. Never really satisfied with, you know, the level that I was shooting. Even if I had the greatest workout, I'm probably thinking about the couple of misses that I had and, you know, how can I get better the next session. And from there, you just expose yourself to different, you know, thought processes, different approaches to training. Like, I have my trainers now who I've been with for the last 15 years, but, like, I was always curious, you know, coming through, being uncomfortable. Hear that, kids. Curious. Want to learn. Being uncomfortable getting in the gyms that, you know, kids are better than me. You know, the workouts where you know, like, if you're not getting anything out of it. There's that internal voice that's like, I probably coasted today. Like, oh, no, I did something. I got something out of this today. And then you start to just do that more and more and more, and the reps start to build up. More specifically, though, when I got to the league, I thought I was preparing myself for, you know, the NBA journey and the pre-draft workouts and stuff, but I was still at Davidson, still doing, like, college-type workouts. And I caught up with this guy, Edon Ravine, who I had met through my agent, and he's like, yo, come out to Baltimore. Or sorry, to Maryland for, you know, a couple weeks, and let's just work out. And I have this kind of approach to how to get you ready for these workouts. And then for summer league and all that, walk just a leap of faith just in terms of am I really going to get something out of it. But I was curious, and like I said, I was going to put myself in an arena where I could learn what to do and what not to do and what worked and what not worked. And the hardest two weeks of my life where you really had to determine, like, again, how bad do you want it. You put me through hell. But to the point of, like, really earning it, that's where that kind of set me off on the journey. Worked out with CP over that summer leading into my rookie year, really learned what it meant to be a professional. Like, I was just around people that knew what they were talking about, and thankfully, you know, kind of pushed me in the right direction. Yeah, and obviously you didn't know. We talk about shooting a lot, obviously. You didn't know what you were doing. No. But at what point did you realize how transcendent what you were doing on the floor to the masses? When did you figure out, holy ----, Steph, what you're doing on the floor is transcending a whole generation of players? Obviously, you didn't know early on. You're just shooting it. You're just out there, you know, doing your thing. But when did it click to you, you started looking around and was like, oh, wow, that kid is... That's a great question. No, you ruined the game. I didn't. Like, it's destroyed. Completely destroyed. Ten ball, one drill. Steph. When Mark Jackson got back on the telecast after he coached us, and he said it on the telecast, and he was taking it out of context of just like, or too strongly in the sense that he was just being funny. I'm talking about watching his kids play in a game. He's like, oh, he's ruining the game. I'm walking to high school gyms now, and they're just coming across. They're just shooting everything. I'm trying to think of the first moment, though. It's like... Because you know it. Obviously you know it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you know it. When Trey Young came into the league, and that was like the first person who they said was like the next me, even though he's a different player. I'd known him when he was in high school. That was like the first time you're like, one, I'm getting a little older, but there's kids that are watching you who are now emulating their game after the way that you play. There's now expectations on said person to be you or play like you. That might be the first time I thought about it or really experienced what the impact was. Yeah. But I got that you ruined the game question all the time after Mark said it. Now it's kind of tongue-in-cheek just because you understand there is an influence. Now it's about how can you allow kids to hear the story about the entire journey and not just the finish line. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. That might have been the first time I actually thought about it, though, because he was a kid that came to one of our games. We got to talk to him. The next thing you know, he's getting drafted. It's like, oh, he's in that. I'm like, well, no, he's his own player. But what Marvin realized is that he ruined the league, too. Yeah. Now everyone shoots threes now. Everyone. 60 threes a game. 50 threes a game. It's all me. It's all Steph. You were the first. I think you jumped. I think it was maybe Stevie Kerr's first year. You jumped 200 threes attempted. From one season to the next, 200 threes attempted, and then the league followed. Then Dame and Klay. Now it's not uncommon for three, four guys in your roster to shoot hundreds of threes a season. Shot quality is still out on where the league is. Bob Marr was the first one who told me, like, yo, you should shoot 15 threes a game. I was like, what? You know how hard it is to get 12 good looks up? Yeah. He was the one who was like, why not? The math says 15 threes for you is great. Oh, yeah. You start thinking about it. Yeah, the game is more crazy. What was it? Was it that conversation? Was it Stevie Kerr? What was the impetus behind taking a 200? The way that we created shots was a big part of it. The offense that he instilled was less traditional pick and roll, less pick on game. Movement. More movement. Pitch post. Post to pass. All that stuff where you're creating. So the concept of 15 threes, cool, but they're not all created equal in terms of game pressure, the rhythm and flow of how. Is it one pass shot? Is it balls change side three times? And you're coming off and you move, touch it, got back, relocated. That's a different shot percentage wise than the exact same shot from the exact same spot on the floor in a different context. So we started to understand that a little bit. And it just catered to my natural style of seeing the game to the point of, you know, your influence, Reggie, the way that I could get it both ways on the ball and off the ball. So I didn't really. It didn't. As crazy as 200 extra threes in a season sounding, it didn't. Felt natural. Felt like a normal evolution. So let's talk about this offense, right? Because you come into, it's a pick and roll league. And you're a primary ball handler in profile. You have the handle. You can shoot off the dribble. Yes, you played the two in college, but everyone's like, obviously he has a skillset. Did you feel uncomfortable at all in pick and roll? Or were you just like, you know, or was it Steve or was it both of you? How did it come to like, hey, we're just not going to run a million pick and rolls when the time came. It was just conversations. Like I was comfortable with all the different options. Granted, as a ball handler, like your natural tendency is one to be able to make the decisions, like be able to one read the floor, seeing where the defense is, kind of dictate possessions. But when he came in and, you know, we all know Steve, the way he communicates and the way he kind of approached the job, we were almost a 50-win team when he came in. I was building on a great defensive presence with the guys that we had. He's like, I just want to make a couple of tweaks to the way that we're creating shots. And, you know, he has, you know, the Popovich influence. And he had always referenced Atlanta with Coach Bud when he was down there. And like they were in like the second and third year of trying to, you know, implement this kind of style and leveraging everybody on the floor as a threat offensively. And he's like, I just want to help, you know, make those subtle tweaks. So once we got into training camp, he showed a clip of, I can't remember the soccer club. Barcelona. Tiki Taka, right? And he was talking about that as a philosophy of how we're going to create shots, how we're going to create shots, how we're going to, you know, keep things simple, you know, make the defense have to make a million decisions in a possession so that you can find the right shot. Illuminating the spurs 0.5. Yes, 0.5 offense. Make a decision at 0.5. And so once we got in training camp, it took a minute to be comfortable with not calling a play and just letting, yeah, letting the ball kind of dictate where you're supposed to be. I love off ball screens, which as a shooter and a scorer, Coach McKillop at Davidson taught me, you know, you help somebody, you help yourself. And it was a concept of if I can set a screen, you're guarding me and your goal is to keep the ball out of my hands. You got to make a decision that way. You want to call the switch? You can stay body tight. So like sacrificing your body to be able to set screens was a big deal. And that helped kind of optimize Coach Kerr's kind of philosophy because I was involved in pretty much everything, whether it was on ball or off ball. And then from there, you just work on the shots that you're going to get, and that's still the entire team. And so to the point, out of all of that, it wasn't like I was coming in and saying I have to hit this number of three-point attempts to, you know, maximize what I was doing. It was just that's how it kind of actually happened. It's fascinating to me because, like, the league is so pick-and-roll heavy for someone with your skill set and your willingness to move so much. That's probably what prevents other teams from playing that style more than anything is someone's willingness to move, to set screens, to be the sacrificial lamb. There's a great stat I watched a video the other day. Over a certain period of time in your career, your team's rim attempts when you're on the floor are 45% of your shots. That's not from you diming someone in the rim. That's from your movement. When you're off the floor, it's still pretty high, but it's down to 27%. That's pretty good. So your influence is 18 percentage points on rim attempts, and that's not from you. That's just people's respect for your gravity, the game plan. Do we switch? Do we bump? Do we show, like, you staying at home, like you talked about, screening. They don't want to leave your body. The decisions. We got some clips to pull up here of the finals. Oh, yeah. He's most dangerous. I love it. He doesn't have the ball. People, I'm up. He said that in that clip. As a competitor and as a dear friend now, having guys not truly understand what that means when you're competing against a guy like that, it grinds you in the head because it's a natural reaction. It's a natural reaction. The most dangerous guy gives the ball up. The first thing you do is, whew, I did a great job. He is most dangerous when he gives the ball up. And like you just said, that stat right there is really a byproduct of that, 45% of rim attempts when he's on the floor. That means when he's giving the ball up and he's moving and everybody is doing like this to Steph, slip happens. Draymond layup, Iguodala lob. Guys, Gary Payton III dunk. Because of that vibration, it's funny to say the ball has energy. Also, player movement has energy as well. And certain guys, like you said, Reggie having energy, himself having energy. Guys are just moving and flowing. And it's a beautiful thing. It's not beautiful when you're playing against him. It hurts. It's impossible. But as a competitor and someone who kind of thinks the game as well, it's like, wow, you can appreciate that ----. That ---- is like, it's kind of breathtaking. You know those possessions where you've been on the sidelines as a coach. When you start clapping, no matter if the shot went in or not, because you know that the possession was just there. Those are my favorite moments when you're watching film. That's just basketball at its best. And be a part of executing those type of possessions. Those are my favorite. You don't matter who scored. Everybody, everybody. Operation successful, patient dies. It didn't go in, but that was perfect. Operation successful, patient dies. That's hilarious. That's a classic quote right there. The American Express Platinum Card is now better than ever with updated benefits to help you unlock unforgettable experiences. 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I think it's important for the casual fan to understand why is a post to pass interesting? Because you guys, you're not saying let's go to Festus here. No. What happens is I'll start and let you guys talk about it. When you throw the ball in the post, now you've disoriented the defense's vision. Instead of everything being in front of them, you're supposed to see man and ball. It's impossible. You say it's the same thing as what the Bulls was doing in the 90s when they would throw the ball into Luke Longley at times, and now the other actions start happening. Chicago screen, pinch, post. MJ can come off of it. Scotty can come off. It's the same kind of concept, what they were doing. It was just called the triangle. Like you said, as soon as the ball go into the post, now it— Action starts. Action begins. It's like it's controlled chaos, but those guys know exactly what's going on, but we're just trying to get the chain to move on the defense. When you have threats on the floor at all times, it can disorient the defense, which we would show the first clip of me having to **** up. Is that you guys? You've got a few of them. I'm completely— This is the happiest I've ever been watching this game, by the way. The biggest smile of my life. But he's guarding the post here. Draymond goes to set a split screen. So Tristan Thompson's probably not supposed to be guarding. So this is another piece of it. I can't—so there's six seconds on the shot clock, and the reason he's guarding me is probably because something happened. Because he probably switched a ball screen under eight seconds. Offensive rebound, something just happened. And that's part of the ball and body movement, where you can, again, make the defense have to make multiple decisions to where now, all right, Tristan's guarding me. He's not used to being in a guard spot, which is part of our game. And I think one of the conversations we had previously about fives, guarding, picking roles, you know, instead of going one-on-one all the time against the five, throw it, chase it, and let's see what he do. Smoke screen out of it, smoke screen out of it. I don't even set the screen. They're not used to guarding, picking roles, so let's see what they do. So now, having our five, man, who can move his feet, obviously he was very well-equipped to move his feet, but can he get into pinch-pulse action? That's different, you know? And he does a good job. He gets into the body. You know, I think LeBron's trying to play center field here because of Draymond, and he's—you know, so what happens, though? Come off a hard cut, he sets a screen, and you're so fearful of daylight. It's my favorite moment where Tristan has to decide, oh, I think I can get through this. And what else is tricky for people is that if Tristan runs into the screen or under the screen the way he should on a switch, there's too much daylight for you there. So he has to show you to LeBron. Yeah, if they're not on the same page. Because at that point, if that happened on this possession, Bron read it where you're going to try to jump that pass and take it away and make another decision. But one person's on a different station. That's it. It's a wrap. That's it, and this is the byproduct of it. So there's the rim attempt, right? And so that's all just out of gravity, fear, game plan busting, movement, playing post and pass. All right, let's see what we got here. So this is just random basketball right now, right? Yes. You come down. You know, people are finding spots. We're going to move it. You get off the ball, which is— It's the most people I've seen inside a three-point line in seven years. It's been a while, right? It's been a while. Just go back five, six more years. By the way, we've got nine guys inside the three-point line. This is unbelievable. Dre's the only person outside the three-point line right now. Wow. It's unbelievable. Okay, but you don't stop playing. So what are the principles here? I'm just going to move. Someone knows they're supposed to pin in, or you're going to screen and someone's going to clean it up? Yeah. So, like, when you come—so that's the— when a guard goes underneath the basket, if you're guarding that person, obviously, like, the antenna's up. I'm coming out whichever side. If Shump is trying to stay attached, but I've been moving the whole possession, so unless he's kind of bear-hugging, which happens at times, I'm at the advantage because now he's chasing and trying to decide. And to the point where we've been doing a bunch of action where now Ron's trying to decide at what point am I jumping out. I've already guarded two actions before, and it's just good timing. And Dre was an unbelievable asset in that sense because it didn't matter. We had four ball handlers on the court right now that could make that play, right? Sean could have made it. Dre, Andre—or Draymond could have made it. Andre could have made it. I could have made it if somebody else was in the action. So, like, that obviously helps. Dre's under control. He knows, like, something's about to happen. Yeah, and that is, like, one of the things in our league, too. Like, sometimes that's what makes, you know, certain guys like Dre, Iguodala, you know, Rondo, you know, Draymond. It makes—some of their superpowers actually work for them as well because, as you can see right now, we're not pressuring Dre. We're trying to read his eyes, see where he's throwing the ball, and then maybe stunt to the direction of the pass. But also, what—the flip side is that he can see everything because there's no pressure. Same thing with Rondo. Rondo—imagine Rondo up there with Paul and Ray coming off floppy screens, KG and Perk setting the pin downs, and Rondo just up there just like— because no one wants to pressure him. You know, they're afraid to pressure him because he's fast, but also they say, okay, well, you can't shoot as well, but his superpower is you not pressuring him. So he can just— You're giving him time and vision. He can see it all, you know. So I don't know if we were in, like, if Steph's underneath and he comes out, we're switching, or— Well, I would say you're in something because you're— Yeah, I'm in something. He gets locked in sometimes. Yeah, that's part of it, too. The first part about this is it's random. So you're not always certain. Steph gave the ball up on the left wing and threw it to Dre, and now it ended up down here. And did his possum thing. Yeah. What's going on? What am I doing? Popcorn at halftime? I don't know. I feel like maybe something sweet. Yeah. And then boom. So when he starts to sprint here, head under the basket, playing possum, he sprints. Shump now is in emergency mode because he cannot be— like, this is too much daylight. There's never a time he's going to point switch him out. So it's like—or point switch me out. Exactly. And so he's on his bike. Now, when you're sprinting that fast to close, it's hard now to read and react. Yeah, yeah. It's hard to read and react. And so LeBron really should be on the high side here. Correct. But he probably feels, if I get on the high side and he fades and we switch, I'm in trouble. So you're thinking, let me bias my body towards Steph. And point. You're almost passing me off here. Like, you know, just certain players in our league, just certain guys over the course of the history of the game, no matter what you do, they still have an advantage. And that's what makes— That's what makes them great. That's what makes Grace great. That's what makes them great. That's a great point. You have something? No. I want to— Yeah, exactly. Well, I'm going to ask you about him in a second. No, no, no. It's about the guest. We got the guest on, Steve. No, no, no. You guys battled it out in the four straight finals. This is important history of the game stuff.