NEW EVIDENCE: 1 in 4 Dead STILL Have 'Monster Clots' Since Pandemic

Since COVID, something strange has been found inside the bodies of the people who've died. It doesn't look like normal blood clotting. Funeral home workers across the country say they're finding these large, white, rubbery material things inside veins and arteries, material that they never saw before 2021. Now, by now, you've probably seen these images all over social media. A couple years ago, they were everywhere, and you definitely saw them if you watched Died Suddenly. So what's actually being found? Why do doctors say some of this material is being thrown away instead of tested? And why have major medical organizations been so reluctant to even look into it? And perhaps the most important question we should be asking is why are embalmers still finding these clots today, nearly half a decade after the shots rolled out? My guest today is Tom Haviland. He's spent years asking these exact same questions, and today he's going to do his best to give us real answers. Tom is a retired U.S. Air Force major and a former defense contractor. Now, after losing his job for refusing the COVID vaccine, which props to him, he began collecting reports from funeral home workers across the country and around the world. Now, if experienced professionals across five different countries are seeing the same unusual things happening in these human bodies year after year that all started occurring right after COVID, that deserves a real answer, not silence. Welcome to Man in America, a voice of reason in a world gone mad. I'm your host, Seth Holhouse. Before we start, make sure you hit that like button. It really helps get this information out to more people. Also, make sure you subscribe, share this video or podcast with someone that you think needs to hear it, and leave your thoughts in the comments. I love reading through those. And remember, every show is done as a video and a podcast, so if you'd rather listen, find us on your favorite podcast app. If you're on the Apple Podcasts, a quick review really helps us get this information out to more people. All right, now let's get into my conversation with Tom Haviland. Mr. Tom Haviland, it's great to have you on the show. I'm looking forward to this discussion with you, so thank you for being here with us. Well, thanks for having me, Seth. A lot has happened over the last couple years in the area of these unusual white fibrous clots. I'll show the audience here. Oh, yeah. And two, three, four years ago, this was what everyone was talking about, right? Especially when we had Diet Suddenly coming out, and it was such a big deal. We had the videos coming out from the embalmers and people working at the morgues and seeing this. And it's really faded in the back in the news cycle, and even the alternative news cycle, because there's a lot of new things that are happening that everyone's focusing on, but the issue is still here. That's what we're getting into. And so, Tom, before we dig into more of today's topic, give us a little bit of your background of how you even came to be, I'd say, one of the central researchers on these clots and on the effects of the vaccines and this virus. Yeah, Seth. I'm a retired U.S. Air Force major, spent 20 years in the Air Force, retiring as a major, then spent 16 years as a defense contractor working with the Air Force, doing data analysis, electrical engineering work. Loved my job, had a great time, was actually fired from my job because I refused to take the COVID-19 vaccine back in October of 2021. But it wasn't a big deal. I was already drawing a retired major salary and only a year away from drawing Social Security early at 62. So I decided to go into early retirement. I was watching that died suddenly in the November of 2022. That's when it came out, premiered in the week of Thanksgiving in 2022. And in that movie, there was about six or seven embalmers that said they were finding these very unusual white fibrous clots that they had never seen before in their corpses. Prior to COVID and the vaccines, they'd only seen two types of clots, Seth. What's called grape jelly clots. They look like dark grape jelly and dissolve easily in your hands. And then also what's called chicken fat clots, which are small, yellowish in color and tear very easily. Much, much different than these large white fibrous clots, which are tough, they're rubbery. The embalmers describe them as what looks like a calamari and kind of stretches like a rubber band that stretches back into place. So very unusual phenomenon. These are embalmers with 20, 30 years of experience, never saw these things before the years of COVID and the vaccines. So after watching that movie, I called the next day, the Ohio embalmers association, because they were mentioned in the film. And I was able to verify with their then vice president, who then later on became the president, Mr. Woody Wilson, who runs a funeral home up in Marysville, Ohio, about an hour north of where I live in Dayton, that he was seeing these same white fibrous clots in his corpses. So then I said, Oh, I now I have corroboration from a legitimate senior officer in a, you know, Ohio embalmers association, that he's seeing the same thing these six or seven embalmers are saying. So I decided right there and then with the help of my friend, Ms. Laura Kasner, to do a survey in the United States, Canada, UK and Australia, New Zealand, to see just how prevalent these new white fibrous clots were, and the timing of them when they, you know, came around. Because I had a sneaky suspicion, Seth, that the CDC and the FDA would not be looking into this problem. And I was right. I would say it's not just not looking into it, but I think actively discrediting, actively covering up, doing everything possible to prevent this information from coming out. Because even if, as you mentioned, if you're interviewing and talking to these embalmers that have been doing it for 20, 30 plus years, and they had never seen this before, and all of a sudden, after this COVID vaccine rollout, that they're now seeing these, you know, I'm guessing in quite a lot of the bodies that they're working on. That right there is, as you could say, is almost, it's evidence that you can't really dispute, right? Exactly. It's like something must have changed to cause this, right? Yes. And there's other high-profile men, too, that say they've seen this phenomenon. One of them is Mr. Chris Calvi Jr., who was the 2024-2025 president of the Pennsylvania Funeral Directors Association. Chris actually went on a few shows with me recently and said that he's currently seeing the white fibrous clots in about 30 to 40 percent of his corpses. This is not a rare phenomenon. Another one is a Mr. Kevin Swired, who's the current president of Manitoba, Canada Funeral Services Association. He runs a funeral home in Winnipeg, and he says he's seeing the white fibrous clots in his corpses. Mr. Dana Goodell, who is a board member currently of the Iowa Funeral Directors Association, has been seeing the white fibrous clots in his corpses. Also, I've been invited two years in a row, last year in 2025, and then again this year in 2026, to the Tennessee Funeral Directors Association's annual convention. Last year, it was in Nashville. This year, it was in Chattanooga. I was just down there a couple months ago on May 31st and ran an in-person survey both years with those Tennessee embalmers. They're currently seeing the white fibrous clots in about 18 percent of their corpses. So, it tells you this is not a hoax. We have well-respected men in the industry saying they're seeing this phenomenon. I also have an endovascular specialist and cardiologist from Jacksonville, Florida, Dr. Mahatma Basharat, who admits that he's been removing the same white fibrous clots from living people for the last five years in what's called a cath lab. Yeah, it's a catheterization lab where he uses flexible catheters that either suck the clot out, scrape it out, or lasso it and pull it out. So, it's just, it's flummoxing to me that the CDC and the FDA continue to pretend this is not an issue. They try to pan these off as, oh, these have always existed. They're just chicken fat clots of a different size, I guess. That's not true. And they're not checking with the embalming community and the femur directing community and vascular surgeons and cardiologists and endovascular specialists to confirm that these are indeed a new phenomenon and something quite unusual. And so, you said in talking to some of these individuals that they're seeing in the ballpark of even now, right, 20, 30 percent plus of bodies that they're working on are having these clots. So, that's current, right? So, they're still finding just as many clots. That seems to be kind of worrying. Yeah, because a lot of people took their last COVID vaccines way back in 2021. About 8 percent of the American public took the vaccine back in 2021. Only about 20 percent of the American population over the age of 18 took the shots in 2022 and then going forward. So, this could be an indication that the mRNA from the vaccines is persisting. It's continuing to produce spike protein in some people, not everybody, but in some people to the point where we've been in touch with a scientific team that's basically shown that the culprit here is the spike protein, whether it's from the COVID virus or from the COVID vaccine. What's happening is it's binding with our natural blood clotting protein called fibrinogen. It's in our blood plasma. It's used in the normal clotting process. And instead of converting it into a normal fibrin, which is used for a normal clot, it's twisting it and making it misfold into what's called an amyloid protein, A-M-Y-L-O-I-D protein, just a fancy term for misshaped or misfolded protein. But then it becomes all twisted and matted and a mess and it becomes difficult for our natural enzyme called plasmin, to then break down. So then the clots tend to persist and grow and become these monster clots. So that's what's happening in the human body. And it's just, like I said, perplexing that the CDC and the FDA don't want to begin to take a look at this when they have to know that it's happening by now. And so in this process of your research, have you met with resistance? Have you met with funeral organizations refusing to talk to you or any government stepping in, especially with your background within serving in the armed forces? I'm imagining that you might be on a map somewhere, or you might be on someone's list, on a little yellow sticky note on this guy's desk. I don't know about anybody's hit list or censorship list, but I have had tremendous amount of resistance in the four years that we did the survey. And what's great is recently, I had a paper published in a peer-reviewed journal. This is the paper. It was published, Seth, in the International Journal of Innovative Research and Medical Science in July of this year. So it's been out there for about a month and a half now. And actually already has over 40,000 views and over 8,000 downloads. So the scientific community obviously is very interested in this topic. But what it is, it's the results, the cumulative results of my four years of what's called worldwide embalmer blood clot surveys that I ran in the US, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand. And every year I've run the survey, basically there's been four key results to the survey, Seth. Those are, first of all, this is indeed a worldwide phenomenon and embalmers in all those countries have seen the white fibers clots. Secondly, it's the majority of embalmers. Every year I've done the survey, anywhere between 66% to 83% of the embalmers responding to the survey said they are indeed seeing these white fibers clots. So it is the majority of embalmers seeing this phenomenon. Also, I guess the most shocking thing is the average number of corpses that the clots are in is 23%. Almost one out of every four dead bodies has these white fibers clots in them. So this, like I said, is not a rare phenomenon. These things are quite prevalent. And then the fourth thing is the fact in my very first survey that I ran in 2022, I asked when you started seeing the clots. And there were a few embalmers that said they started seeing the phenomenon in 2020, which is interesting. That's the year we had COVID, but no vaccines yet. So like I said, and that makes sense to me because there is a spike protein, which is the damaging part on the surface of the virus itself. And in some instances, it is able to get into a person's bloodstream, although somewhat rare. But then the number of embalmers seeing the phenomenon exploded starting in 2021, after the rollout of the vaccines. Of course, as we know, it's much easier for the spike protein to get into your blood system because the shots are injected directly into the lipid nanoparticles carrying the mRNA all over the body. And then that mRNA starts telling the cells that it goes into to start manufacturing the spike protein. And as we believe now, it was only supposed to happen for just a couple of days to a week, and then the mRNA was supposed to go away. But that's not what happened, right? They are now finding the mRNA from the vaccine continuing to produce spike three and a half years, maybe indefinitely in some people after they've taken the shots. So we think this has really been disastrous for humanity as causing not just these white fibrous clots and another condition we've been tracking called microclotting, but also turbo cancers, miscarriages, myocarditis, nerve damage, all kinds of ailments. So it's been totally disastrous. You're invited to a very important live stream. You know that right now there's a globally coordinated attack on liberty and privacy to a level that's been never been seen before in humanity. You know that most of the news articles you read are designed to be distractions for the real agenda, the rollout of a social credit system in the West. 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So to register for the free webinar, visit privacyacademy.com slash man in America, or just click on the link in the show description. And so the clots that they're currently pulling out, are these clots that maybe formed two or three years ago? And they're still, I guess, is there a way to tell how old a clot is? Right? Is it something that's been kind of sitting in there for three years? Well, we think the clots can, we're not sure if they can form quickly or if they can form slowly. You know, we think they obviously can form slowly because people that may have taken the shots, like I said, four or five years ago, are still, you know, showing up with these things. So what we think is happening is the clot is anchoring at some point along what's called the endothelial lining, the inner wall of your vein or artery. And these things appear on both sides, both the venous side and the arterial side, and then they start growing. And it may take a while for them to grow, maybe months, maybe years for them to grow. And they finally will reach a point where they completely occlude or block an important vein or an artery. And that's when a person has their stroke or heart attack. And that's when they wind up on the embalmer's table. So the scary thing is people can be walking around, and we know some instances of this, where people have these clots in them, and they were walking around just fine a couple of weeks prior to them having their stroke or heart attack asymptomatic. They felt fine, no problems whatsoever. As long as blood was able to flow around and continue to supply oxygen to those parts of the body, everything's okay. But when it finally then does block off that vessel, that's when you get your stroke or heart attack, and that's when things go critical. And so are there any doctors that you've spoken to that have attributed these clots to illnesses and deaths that they're still seeing? Are these still causing heart attacks and strokes, even to this day? Are we still seeing this carryover effect from probably the vaccine primarily, and then also the spike proteins within the virus itself? I absolutely believe that they are. I was in touch, like I said, in March of 2024 with Dr. Mohanad Basharat, who was an endovascular specialist and cardiologist in Jacksonville, Florida. He said he calls these things devious clots, because there's actually one procedure that was on TV. They didn't show the clot after it was removed, which was interesting, but they showed him removing a clot from a gentleman's leg. It was a DVT, a deep vein thrombosis in a gentleman's leg. He sent me an email with a photograph of that clot, and it was a white fibrous clot. You can see it was covered in blood still, but there was a pinkish cord running down through the middle of it that when it was washed off, it would become white, one of these white fibrous clots. Unfortunately, Seth, about a month later, he sent me another email and said, Tom, I've been instructed to terminate communications immediately. Sorry for the inconvenience. So you can see what happened there, right? His hospital administrator probably got to him, right? Told him, shut up. Stop talking about this, or else we're going to go after your license, your board certifications. So that's what's happening. I actually asked him in a telephone conversation before he cut off communications with me, what's happening with the clots that he removed, the white fibrous clots? I said, are they being sent to pathology for study? He said, no, they're just being thrown away. So the evidence is being destroyed, Seth. And the same thing's happening with embalmers as well. I've tried and tried the last four years to get as many organizations to take these surveys I've been doing. We use SurveyMonkey as the tool. We send it out in an email. We use a two-prong approach, a downward approach. We send it to the 50 national, regional, and state funeral director associations, each with hundreds of members under them, right? Asking them to forward it down to their active embalmer to take the survey. We also use a bottom-up approach by sending the survey directly to over 1,700 funeral homes around the world in major cities, asking them to have their embalmer take the survey. Each year, we should have gotten about 5,000 responses. My best year was 2024. I only got 301 responses. So that tells you right there, there's a hush-hushness about it, right? And I think one of the reasons is the funeral directors, a lot of them who are in charge of these funeral director associations for each of the states, they're funeral directors themselves, right? And they run funeral homes and they probably mandated that all of their employees at their funeral home take the COVID-19 vaccine. So would you want your embalmer to participate in a survey that might show a link between the vaccines and these white fibrous cloths if you mandated that all your employees take the shot? Probably not, right? Because if one of your employees gets injured, they may come back and sue you for that. You might be liable for that. So that's where I think a lot of the reluctance is from these funeral director associations and funeral directors to want to, and doctors as well, to want to take the survey. Because the doctors, for example, they push the shots on their patients, right? They probably took the shots themselves because they were forced to take the shots themselves. So there might be a lot of cognitive dissonance going on. They may not want to know the answers to these questions. They may feel a certain amount of guilt about pushing it on patients and loved ones. So that's where we're getting a lot of resistance. One of the organizations I've tried to get to take the survey the last four years is the British Institute of Embalmers. And they've sent me back an email. Here's one of the letters I got from the British Institute of Embalmers. And they've declined every year to take the survey, Seth. It's kind of funny because on their website, they have a code of ethics. And key point number four in their code of ethics, so whenever there's something unusual going on in the world of embalming, they're supposed to take a look at it and do research on it. Well, I think they're violating their very own code of ethics. They also recently, this just last January, they did three very unusual things with their embalmers. They used to have an embalmers forum, a members forum for their embalmers and funeral directors to be able to chit chat with each other on online on their website. And I had an insider at the British Institute of Embalmers that used to post information about my four worldwide surveys, asking them, in fact, to take the survey. Well, the leadership of the British Institute of Embalmers decided to do away with that forum completely. So they can't talk about the white fibers clots at all, nor any other subject. They also have a public relations media officer. And they said, if you're ever going to go on a podcast to talk about anything like these white fibers clots, make sure you check in first with our public media relations officer. He wants to talk to you before you go on any show. And then they also reminded all the embalmers that, hey, did you know there's a Human Tissue Act of 2004? And we're interpreting that to mean that whenever you remove from a dead person's body, even these white fibers clots, you're not allowed to keep. You must throw those away. That's not yours. That's not yours to keep. So they're encouraging their membership to destroy the evidence. To me, that's totally unethical. Because remember, if embalmers, funeral directors, cardiologists, endovascular specialists, vascular surgeons, they're the only ones that see what's going on inside our veins and arteries, right? So if they don't tell us, we, the public, don't know what's going on inside. I think that it's safe to say that there is a massive, coordinated, global cover-up conspiracy. I mean, it's the only way to… If you imagine anything else like this, that you found the same behavior around the world, it would be shocking, actually. It'd be shocking to even think about that. Hold on. How is this being coordinated on a global level so that these embalmers in the UK or other countries are on the same kind of hush-hush, zipped-lips orders, even in these letters coming back to you, them getting rid of the forum where this could be talked about? I mean, going through this process of your research, you're someone that spent your career in many ways serving or working for the government. And I think that as you piece things together, you realize that the government was at the center of a lot of this. And in government, I think you could also say it's the pharmaceutical-industrial complex, the military-industrial complex, the intelligence agencies. It's a big kind of blob that exists. But how has that felt for you to go from your career and your faith in the Constitution and the nation to then realizing that the same government that you were helping to protect, obviously protecting the people here that you served and were very dutiful, how has that been on you in that process? It's been painful, Seth. First of all, on a personal account, in October 2021 when I was mandated to take an experimental drug against my will, the leadership, the generals and the colonels I was working with at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, they were basically passing down an illegal order. You're not allowed to tell somebody they have to take an experimental drug, which the COVID-19 vaccine is and was. And thank goodness that Pete Hegseth eventually came out and said, you know what, that was the illegal order they gave. He admitted that. And then, of course, he invited the men and women who had been kicked out to come back in the service. I think very few of them did because I think a lot of them didn't want to come back and work with people that threw them under the bus. The other thing that was tremendously damaging and disappointing was when I found out through Tom Renz, the attorney, along with Lieutenant Colonel Teresa Long and others that the U.S. military had fudged their DMED database, which Teresa Long, who's a doctor that was inside the system, found tremendous rises. They had two, three, four hundred percent rises in strokes, heart attacks, miscarriages, aneurysms, nerve damage, all kinds of, you know, yeah, from after the troops were mandated to take the COVID-19 vaccine. The DMED, the folks in the Department of Defense went back and they changed that data. They fixed the data. They said the data was wrong and they fixed it to make it look like nothing had happened, like there was no great increase after the COVID vaccines were released. So think about that. They went back and they fudged the data, you know, which is just, it's horrendous, right? So it opened my eyes and, you know, I guess maybe I had been a little bit naive, you know, because I had been proud of all my years of service, but wow, that was, it was a heavy blow for me because I expected more integrity from our leadership. And when I saw that lack of integrity, both in mandating the shots and obeying, you know, what was basically an illegal order, which you're supposed to refuse, we take an oath as an officer to refuse that, you know, you have to obey all lawful orders, but you also have to disobey any unlawful order. Yeah, I mean, if the Air Force, if the general gives you an order to, you know, let's say, poison the water source of a small town somewhere and you know you're going to be killing women and children, I mean, unless we're at times of war, but even then that would probably be considered a war crime and so you should still, you know, not do it, but, you know, you would reject that, I'm sure. And because it gets, you know, it kind of, it bridges or crosses the gap of now you're getting into your moral conscience, you know, that kind of behavior. And so, I mean, if our own, if the institutions that are supposed to be protecting us and the institutions that are supposed to be protecting our troops and our soldiers are the very ones that had forced this upon them, but then also covered it up, that also, that kind of makes it a lot worse, right, that they did this. You show no apology, it won't admit wrong, it won't admit fault at all, you're right. What is, again, coming from your history of being within this system, what does that tell you about our future as a nation if our own government, our own military that's supposed to protect us is acting like this? What are the long-term ramifications of this? It's a sign of weakness, isn't it? You know, I've also seen weakness in the general populace as well because so many people who've taken the vaccines, they just, and they've stopped, right? Like I said, 80% of people over the age of 18 took at least their first two jabs back in 2021. Now we believe it's less than 10% taking the COVID vaccines. But how many of those people that have now stopped taking them have told you, man, I made a big mistake, I never should have taken those things, I caught COVID anyways, I'm worried about possible side effects that I'm hearing about now, like these clots and turbo cancers and things like that. How many of them have actually come out and admitted their fault, that they made a mistake? Very few. They're carrying too much pride, and pride cometh before the fall. And I think, you know, that's the problem is we haven't addressed this issue because people, first of all, haven't admitted that mistakes were made, that there's been this horrendous, tremendous poisoning of the population or potential poisoning of the population that's going on with these COVID-19 vaccines. And a lot of people don't even want to admit that the COVID virus was man-made in the lab. That's pretty much settled science now based upon Anthony Fauci's own notes, you know, from the diary that they collected on Fauci. He had notes of the meeting that he had in February of, was it 2020? You know, January or February of 2020, where he talked to about 12 scientists on a phone call, and 10 of the 12 said that they suspected that the virus was developed in the Wuhan lab. And, you know, fairly much convinced Fauci, he wrote down in his notes that he thought that was true. But then he went on TV and told the public, the exact opposite, right, that the lab leak theory was far-fetched, and it was a bat, you know, in the wet market in Wuhan that caused the spillover. So it's shocking. But how many people know that? How many people have actually dug into the information to see what Fauci said in his own words? So very few, right? So now we still have this delusion going on, not just in the military, but in the general populace as well, with not everybody, you know, I'd say at least half the populace, though, still doesn't realize, and I get it, they want to move on. You know, they're tired of COVID. COVID was a bad time for everybody. But you can't move on when these things are still being found in 20% of corpses, and when we suspect there may be a lot more damage coming down the road for people. I was watching a YouTube video the other day with Dr. Philip McMillan and Dr. Shankar Chetty talking to a gentleman, a scientist in Germany named Joachim Gerlach, and he was showing some slides in that interview, Seth, and they've done testing for spike protein positivity levels in the population in Germany, and he tested 700 people. I know that wasn't that large a sample size, but of the 700 people, general populace, these are people, some of them have taken the shot, some have not taken the vaccine. Some of them were asymptomatic, some of them were symptomatic. They were showing long COVID or long VAX symptoms they were dealing with. But it was basically a swath of the general populace, and of those 700 people, 66% of them had positive spike protein in their bloodstream. Two-thirds. You can whistle past the graveyard, but we may be in serious trouble here, and whistling past the graveyard isn't going to save you from what's going on inside your body. You mentioned cognitive dissonance and people not wanting to acknowledge this, and you also mentioned the pride. Do you think that there's also an element of fear? We're getting into that more cognitive dissonance. You don't want to acknowledge something very bad has happened. It's part of it as well that people that got the shot that perhaps suspect that they've seen enough headlines floating around, and maybe they saw the cover of Died Suddenly, and they've got worried. Do you think there's a lot of people that maybe it's not necessarily out of pride, but it's actually out of they're really, really scared, and so they just kind of want to ignore it? Absolutely, and fear is what's got them in trouble in the first place. That's probably why they... That's true. That's very true. There's a whole sleight of hand, right? The chyrons on CNN, how many cases there were today, how many people are dead from the virus. They've pushed it, and pushed it, and pushed it, and told us the only way out of this was to take the COVID-19 vaccine, and people respond. They respond to fear. They respond to that kind of pressure, and they do things maybe they wouldn't normally do. They maybe didn't sit back and think about, wow, this is a brand new technology, mRNA technology with a lipid nanoparticle delivery system, and Moderna had never had a successful patent to market in their history until this particular one, so it was just like they didn't do the research that may have told them to stop, think about what you're doing before you do it, because they were given this fear story, and they were told the only way out of it was to take these vaccines, and none of us are safe until all of us are safe, something like that, right? That didn't make sense, because if you took a vaccine and the vaccine works really well, why do you care if I take it or not? You're protected already, right, once you take the vaccine, so it was always perplexing as to why the people that are taking the vaccines are always so hard-pressed to want to make the unvaccinated take the vaccine. You shouldn't worry about it. If you're vaccinated and the vaccine works, you're good. It kind of reminds me of the drunk guy at the party, and maybe you don't drink or you're driving that night, and he wants you to be drunk with ease. He keeps trying to press you, oh, come on, just have a few drinks, right? It reminds me of some of that kind of behavior, right? Yeah, misery loves company. Yeah, and so psychologically, things were going on there. You're absolutely right. Yeah, and I've thought a lot about this, and I try to have compassion and empathy, because you mentioned the psychological operation, and obviously, with your service background, you weren't working in the special ops or the psychological operations division, but you understand the power of these in war, and I think if you look at the campaign on the media, social media, it was a very, very coordinated psychological operation and social engineering campaign, and I think there's a lot of people that had their good nature used against them, and they made these decisions. This is also why I take a little bit of, I don't want to say offense, but I don't like hearing some of the conservative or alt-right or podcasters referring to people as vaccine dummies or zombies. They kind of look down upon these people, but actually, these people, fundamentally, they're victims of probably the largest global psychological operation that we've ever seen in the history of mankind, and oftentimes, it was targeting their own good nature. It was saying, look, if you want to take care of your grandmother, if you want to be responsible, if you want to be a good part of society, and Americans have been trained to be a good part of society. It's been built into our school system and our ethos, and there's good things about that, but I think these people, they were really taken advantage of in a very bad way. I totally agree with you, especially the don't kill grandma thing was very effective, right? Because you're right, nobody wants to kill their grandma, but people started thinking twice, I think, when they started hearing that, okay, now your child has to take a shot in order to protect grandma and grandpa. That's something our society never dealt with before. We were always at, no, no, the elderly sacrifice for the youth, not the other way around. So there was a lot of people started really going against the vaccines, and rightfully so, when they started saying, now the kids need to take the vaccine, and the kids need to wear masks, and the kids need to do this in order to protect the elderly. So I'm not buying that at all, and I think a lot of people started turning against vaccines when that started coming down the pipe, and rightfully so, because our youth should never have to sacrifice for the elderly. Yeah, that's a good point, actually. Yeah, that's a good point. And the people that are working, yeah, you should have been allowed to keep on working, because they were at very little risk too. The misinformation was so bad by CNN, ABC, NBC, even Fox, they were talking about the death rates and things like that, and they were off by magnitudes. The case fatality rate for COVID wound up being about 0.3%, right? So three out of 1,000 people that caught COVID passed away from it. Now, a lot of those probably because they got poor treatment when they got to the hospital, ventilators and remdesivir, and night, ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine and things that could help them not even go in the hospital. Or they died in a car crash, and they ran a PCR test that said, oh, yep, here's a COVID death. But only about 2% of people that caught COVID actually wound up having to go to the hospital for being hospitalized. But in the early days when they asked the populace with polls what percentage of people that catch COVID have to go to the hospital, they thought it was 50%. Because that's what the TV was pretending was going on, right? Well, if you catch COVID, this is terrible, right? We got to trace it down. We got to trace everybody who you were in contact with for the last five days. So they blew it way out of proportion. I'm not saying the virus itself is not dangerous. Like I said, I think if it gets in the bloodstream, it can cause these things. So there is some danger to COVID. But I think it was blown way out of proportion. And it was used in a campaign of fear to purposely get people ultimately to take these COVID vaccines. Yeah. And I also think even looking at the virus itself, I also could be more accurate just to refer to it as a bioweapon, as a weaponized pathogen that was created in a lab, right? Ralph Baric kind of came, I think, out of our own United States military industrial complex and pharmaceutical industrial complex was then coordinated with China, released over there, and then pointed to this framing story that it was bad at a wet market. So it makes sense that if you think about the things that we're seeing, the blood clots, and not just the blood clots, all the other unnatural things that we saw, what's it mean to be unnatural, right? It's something that doesn't exist naturally in nature. And a lot of things that man concocts in labs are unnatural things that have unnatural behavior like this. In fact, I wrote an article yesterday for the substack that I have with my assistant, Ms. Laura Kasner. The title of the article is called Pitting the Tail on the Chimeric Donkey. Chimeric, by the way, is just a fancy biological term. It means a lab-made, man-made gene or protein created by mixing pieces from different species, for example, like fusing mouse and human parts together. And basically what this article talks about is that in 2015, Seth, five years before the pandemic hit, Ralph Baric and a couple other gentlemen filed a patent application for a bat coronavirus, a chimeric one, they were able to make, build using three existing bat coronaviruses. They took their best of features in terms of being able to be, replicate faster and also, you know, be more infectious to humans and made a man-made virus from them in 2015. And they filed a patent application. That is the patent application right there. If you look in the one column on the left, about halfway down, you'll see it was filed on March 20, 20th of 2015, right there. Yep. And if you go to the upper right-hand corner, you'll see that the, it was actually granted then on three years later on February the 18th. It actually became visible in 2017, the patent office, while it's being looked at and considered for, for granting the patent. And after the first couple of years, they'll actually display it for, for the world to see. So in 2017, they actually made that patent application visible to the world. And then of course, companies like Moderna and Pfizer saw that. And what they did is they used this same technique that Ralph Barrett describes in this document to actually build the COVID vaccines. So yeah, methods for, yeah, methods and compositions for chimeric coronavirus spike proteins. Bingo. So yeah, that tells us, they lied to us. Remember, remember in 2021, when the vaccines were being worked on and came out, they said, hey, these vaccines there, it's a miracle of science. In just six to nine months, we were able to develop this. No, they had the spike protein five years before that, right? And they had, and like I said, Moderna and Pfizer probably started working in 2017 on the vaccine to come up to counter. So that's why it only, it was able to come out, you know, in late 2020, right? They actually started getting shots in arms right around December of 2020, just after the election. They want, they actually had the solution before then. Remember in November, they decided to withhold it and it wound up hurting Trump. Because if they, if they were to come out before November of 2020, during the presidential election, then Trump could have said, hey, see, you know, a feather in my cap, right? We did Operation Warp Speed and came out with a vaccine before the election, even. But they waited to announce it after the election, after Joe Biden won. And then of course, it became Biden's vaccine, which he then, you know, mandated on everybody. Trump still loves him too, right? Trump still loves Operation Warp Speed. So, you know, this thing shouldn't be political, right? Because these, these white fibers clots, Seth, they form in Republicans just as easily as they form in Democrats. They're an equal opportunity killer. So, but it's just a shame. And it shows you that we were lied to. That was not a miracle of science. Here's an uncomfortable question. Why should your messaging app need to know anything about you? Most of us have already accepted that technology companies collect enormous amounts of information. What we click, where we go, what we buy, and who we interact with. That information is valuable because your attention is valuable. Keet takes a radically different approach. So Keet is a free messaging, file sharing, and video calling app built peer-to-peer. So there's no centralized company database that's holding onto your conversations. There's no metadata tracking and no phone number or email are even required to use it. Your messages are end-to-end encrypted and move between the people in the conversation. Your private life shouldn't be another crop in someone else's data farm. So to get this today, visit keet.io slash man in America. That's Keet, which is K-E-E-T.io forward slash man in America. So download it free and write one person that you trust and start a conversation that belongs to you, not some big data harvesting company. They knew about the ability to make man-made spike coronavirus, spike proteins, and then obviously then vaccines to counter those as well and get them into the population. And have you seen any success in trying to fight back against this? Obviously, as you said, you're retired now. And I think that from what I can see, you're quite focused on this. This is almost like your post-retirement career is exposing white fibrous clots in the vaccines and digging into this. And so in that process, have you seen examples of just progress in this, of people admitting failure and acknowledging this? Have you seen any progress there? Well, I think we are starting to, right? I mean, what happened this last month with Anthony Fauci's diaries and then also his government-issued cell phone came out. One of the things, by the way, they found in the Fauci diaries is Fauci in 2021 himself had a dangerous pulmonary embolism. Did you know that? Yeah, he had a blood clot, may have been one of these, right, caused by these things, six months after he got his two Moderna shots. He got his two Moderna shots in early 2021. You know, he's one elderly, so he's one of the first ones to get the vaccine. But remember, we didn't know about that to public. He writes in his notes that his doctors at Johns Hopkins, you know, were concerned that, hey, they immediately put him on Eliquis, you know, a clot-busting drug to try to get rid of the clotting that was going on, because a pulmonary embolism is a dangerous blood clot in your lungs, and it has to be very careful, you know, it can kill you. So just think about that. Anthony Fauci, at the same time he's going on TV telling the world that these vaccines are safe and effective, he's dealing with a dangerous pulmonary embolism that may have been caused by the Moderna vaccines that he took six months earlier. That's how sinister this is. But the good news is, you know, senators like Ron Johnson, in fact, we're going to see Ron next month. I'm going to a Children's Health Defense Conference in Washington, D.C. It's a one-day conference next month. I've already talked to Ron in person twice at a couple of his previous hearings. But I'm going to get him next month, and I'm going to make sure to close in person again. And then also the paper now that we have, I think Ron's going to respond to this, because now we have, like I said, in the peer-reviewed literature, the results of my four annual surveys, along with another paper in that same July issue of the International Journal of Innovative Research in Medical Science, which talks about how the clots are forming based upon work from the scientific team that Richard Hirschman, the involver, and I have been in touch with. So hopefully Ron will then hold a hearing similar to the one he held a couple months ago on turbo cancers and the one that he did last year on myocarditis. We're hoping that he has one now that features the white fibrous clots. So I think it's time. And do you think that it's the mRNA technology itself that's introducing these spike proteins? Because I know that a lot of the flu shots and a lot of the other vaccines that they're now coming out with are built upon mRNA technology. And I also know that there's a CDC that recently awarded an insane amount of money to the pharmaceutical companies to continue developing COVID vaccines and mRNA technology. And so do you think that there's a chance that the continued emergence of these clots in people is, in addition to the original COVID vaccine and the spike protein still doing their work, that some of it could also be the result of just people, say, getting a flu shot and that having mRNA technology? Do you think there's any chance of that happening? I absolutely think it's a possibility, Seth. Right now, in addition to the COVID vaccines that are out there by Pfizer, Moderna, there's two other mRNA shots that are on the market right now. One of them is an RSV shot for the elderly. What's interesting is they asked for approval for that for infants as well, and the FDA actually denied that because the clinical trial data was so bad that the cohort, the babies that got the mRNA RSV shot, suffered more RSV cases than the babies in the placebo group. So they couldn't approve it for that, thank goodness. The other one that they just got approval for, Moderna got approval for an mRNA shot for the regular flu. That was just done and we are concerned, myself and the scientists that are looking at this, because not only in the case of the COVID vaccines, the mRNA payload was mRNA, a modified RNA that produces the spike protein, which I said is binding with our fibrinogen to cause these. But another culprit in forming these is the phospholipid nanoparticles that deliver the mRNA to the cells. Remember, that's the hollow ball, right? The package that the mRNA is put inside that's so small that it can go through all around the body. In fact, it can cross the blood-brain barrier as well. And then that distributes the mRNA and it gets taken in almost like a Trojan horse, right? The cell wants to eat fat and the phospholipid nanoparticle is a fatty particle. So the cell then eats the lipid nanoparticle. Then once it's inside the cell, the lipid nanoparticle releases, it opens up to release its mRNA payload. It tells the cell to, now instead of being a heart cell or a kidney cell, you're going to be a cell that produces the spike protein. That's your job from now on. So that was the case in COVID, right? Now on these new shots, there's a different what's called antigen inside that the mRNA, the modified RNA is going to tell the cell to produce something else, not the COVID-19 spike protein, but also a protein to counter RSV or a protein to counter the regular flu. The problem is at the moment that phospholipid nanoparticle opens up inside the cell, it's exposing its phosphorus heads. And those phosphorus heads, they love to bind with our natural fibrinogen. So we believe that any mRNA shot in the future using this phospholipid nanoparticle technology is going to cause these things as well as probably the other conditions, such as the turbo cancers, myocarditis. Yeah. So it's just a failed platform. The platform, because first of all, you know, old style drugs, vaccines that were put into the antigens already in the vial and it's injected into you. And there's only a certain amount in there. And then once it's used up, it's gone. Remember in the case of the mRNA vaccines, you're being injected with the instructions to make the antigen, right? And if the instructions never turn off, and they were supposed to leave your body in just a couple of days to a week, but if they stay in your body for years afterward, or maybe for the rest of your life, intending to make the antigen, how do you control the dosage amount that you're going to get? You don't, right? So they can't control the dosage amount. And part of the time, they can't even control the protein that's being made. About 10% of the time, the mod RNA from the vaccines is producing what's called nonsense or aberrant proteins through a process called frame shifting, where our ribosomes actually misread the modified RNA from the code. And so then it's producing these nonsense proteins that could be dangerous as well and cause these kinds of things like the collection of the amyloid. So they can't control where the shots go. And by the way, they like the nanoparticles like going to women's ovaries, men's testicles, and can affect fertility. They can't control where the shots go. They can't control how long the shot lasts. They can't control your dosage amount. And they can't control the protein that it makes 10% of the time. So it's just a totally failed technology, not ready for human use. And the sooner, but big farmers got years, decades of research and billions of dollars invested in this technology. And they've already got the runway now to roll the shots out without having to go through a lot of scrutiny, right? Because they say, oh, we're using just a different antigen inside the same vehicle we used last time. And you proved it last time, so you got to prove it this time. And that's what they're banking on. So where do we go from here? For the people that are watching this, that have been following this, that are just so upset, what can we do? What power do we have? Well, the power, you know, don't expect the big pharma, your medical institutions, your governments, don't expect them to save you. Yeah, don't expect them to save you. You have to bone up yourself. You have to be a critical thinker. And my advice to the people is not to take any mRNA-based vaccine, whether it's a COVID vaccine or any of these in the future, because of the dangers involved. So people are going to have to make up their own mind. But, you know, I think the fact that only less than 10% of people are now taking the COVID shots, that should tell people something, right? That should be an indication that the uptake went from 80% all the way down to less than 10%. So people are figuring it out. And, you know, a lot of people, they know because they have in their own personal friends or their families, they know somebody who they suspect was either injured or killed by the COVID-19 vaccine. That's how prominent this is. It's not rare. It's much worse than we thought, unfortunately, if you look at just the carryover of this and the longevity of what this is doing. But you're right, though, in saying just educate yourself about this, which is that's why, you know, we're doing the shows like this. This is why you've got your Substack, right? Which I'll make sure that we put your Substack link in the show description. It's actually lauracasner.substack.com. So it's Laura, then K-A-S-N-E-R.substack.com. And I think that's just one of the keys is that we need to educate ourselves. We need to share this information. Thankfully, there's less restriction on social media. Before your Substack will probably get someone's Facebook account put into jail for 30 days if it was shared. But I'm seeing that even YouTube has kind of let off on some of this. And maybe that's intentional. Maybe it's like, the damage is already done. Let them feel like they're fighting some sort of battle and we're going to slip it into the other shots. But anyway, I think it's important to educate ourselves on this. And I think prepare and understand that there's probably another version that's coming down the pipeline, right? And maybe the COVID-19 was just the first round in a series of operations. Yeah. And Seth, the other thing I want to do before we wrap up is I want to make a challenge. I want to challenge the CDC, the FDA. Go get some of these white fibers clots. There's plenty out there. There's a whole bunch of embalmers. Richard Hirschman from Alabama is willing to send them to you. Mr. Chris Calvi, Jr., who was the 2024-2025 president of the Pennsylvania Funeral Directors Association, he'll send you clots. You can trust him. And it's not just them, right? It's the Mayo Clinic, the Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, MIT. Where are you on this? Why haven't you gotten your own samples of the clots? Where's your curiosity? Why haven't you investigated this phenomenon that we think is affecting a large portion of the planet? If these white fibers clots are in 23% of the dead, well, what percent of the living are walking around right now with either these or what's called microclots forming inside them? Microclots are much smaller. The embalmers see them as what looks like coffee grounds in the blood draining off the corpse. And that's actually after they become very large. At the microscopic level, you couldn't even see them with the eyeball. But they block your capillaries, your very small blood vessels. And then they can block the exchange of oxygen at the lung. And then they carry that oxygen to all the major organs of your bodies, including your brain, your eyes, when you have very small blood vessels in them. That's why we think a lot of people are experiencing brain fog or vision problems, or have microclotting going on inside their head. This is happening. The medical community, the universities, they know it's happening, but yet they refuse to investigate it. So, shame on them. And I'm challenging them now. Like I said, you know, Johns Hopkins, MIT, Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, get off your rear ends, get some of these clots, start looking at this unusual blood, and do your research. Because they've got hundreds of millions of dollars at disposal. Unlike the ragtag team that Richard Hirschman and I have been working with. I think it's also, get a backbone. You know, stand up for what's right. Stand up for not what's convenient. Go against the system if the system has turned evil. It's our duty, not just as Americans and following the Constitution, but it's our duty as human beings. It's like the kind of famous quote of all it takes for evil to exist is for good men to do nothing. And that's the thing is that there's a lot of men that maybe think that they're good people, but they're not doing anything about this. Because it might threaten their career, it might threaten their reputation, their money, income. And I think that's one of the keys here is that I really hope that more people, especially people that are in positions to do something about this, actually do what it takes to stand up against this. Amen. I couldn't have said it better myself, Seth. Well said. Yeah. Well, Tom, it's great speaking with you. Also a fellow Ohioan. It's always nice. We were chatting before we started recording and your grandparents, I think, grew up, you know, were living... My mother and father lived in Plain City. Yeah. Yeah. Where you're from. Yeah. I'm originally from Marion. That's where I'm from. Oh, okay. My whole family's from Marion. Oh, okay. Okay. Yep. So that's why we're both smiling and we're friendly because we're good old Midwestern genes. So... That's right. Yeah. Well, Tom, thank you again for doing what you're doing. Thank you for giving us your time. I encourage people to subscribe to your Substack. That's going to be very important, getting this information out, share it, share this interview, and hopefully, you know, we can keep at this and get more people aware of what's happening. Yeah. And it's a free Substack too. There's no charge for it whatsoever. There we go. Great. Well, Tom, thank you again. It's always nice to speak with you. Thank you. Thanks, Seth. 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