Marc Evan Jackson on The Tim Weisberg Show

All right, I'm going to do something a little bit unorthodox here because I want to get this interview in with Mark Evan Jackson about the Bluebird Improv Show coming to the Narrows Center on Thursday, July 16th. You can get tickets now at narrowscenter.com and they'll also be available to the day on the day of the show, but you want to make sure you get them ahead of time. And so this is going to feature Tim Meadows from Saturday Night Live. It's going to feature Matt Walsh from Veep and other folks who you've seen on numerous other things doing improv comedy. And Mark Evan Jackson, you'll recognize him from his appearances on shows like Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Parks and Recreation, The Good Place, and more. And he's going to talk with us a little bit about improv comedy and about his career. I think, Mark, that a lot of people go to, you know, they go to a comedy show and they have one idea of it, but they might not understand the difference between going to a comedy show and going to an improv show. Improv is a whole different world. Improv is a whole different world. Obviously, we're seeing a lot online, stand-up comedians doing a lot of crowd work, which I suppose is a form of improvisation. They don't know what answers they're going to get from the people in the audience when they ask them where they're from or what they do or if they're a couple and that sort of thing. So that's a little bit looser of a brand of stand-up. But the remainder of a stand-up comedian's act is fully scripted and has probably been tested and honed over years. I mean, it truly, I dabble in that world a little bit as well, and it takes, you know, truly years to develop 20, 30, 40 minutes worth of material that you know consistently works in most venues. Improvisation is completely different. Our shows are absolute unicorns, different one from another, based completely on the situation that you find yourself in with the audience. For instance, with Bluebird Improv, what we typically do is come out on stage at the beginning of the show, and we're typically on the road, we're typically traveling. So we might just amongst ourselves, the four or five or six of us, talk about, you know, our experience in the airport or something that we've noticed on the ground in the city that we're in. But then we'll talk to the audience about like issues facing the area or who thinks that they themselves are with somebody who has an unusual job. And then we'll just sort of interview them a little bit and all of their answers, the specific answers to where they're from or what issues are facing the city or who thinks they've come from the farthest or any of that sort of thing. That all becomes kind of a table of contents of suggestions that we then use for the next hour or so to make up completely improvised, absolutely unscripted, unplanned theater. And we've all been doing it for some time now and are fairly decent at it. And I will confess that it consistently comes off as a magic trick. It appears impossible. It appears like sorcery. We just did some shows in the childhood home of Johnny Carson in Norfolk, Nebraska, a couple of weeks ago. And the moment the show was over, a very kindly older man asked us if we did all our writing together, which is a flattering, I suppose, in the sense that he simply didn't believe that it was possible that we made all that up in the moment. And then the guy that drove us two hours back to the airport in Omaha, truly, Matt Walsh and I got in the car with him early the next morning and he said, how did you trick us into giving you the answers that you wanted? And it was like, oh my goodness, sir, we, the show was improvised. We promised. We absolutely did not plan a single bit of what you just saw. So it's truly an inside, like you have to be there kind of thing. It's a, it's an inside joke amongst the hundreds of people that show up each time. Each show is completely improvised, 100% unplanned and unique. And of course you and the rest of the Bluebird Improv Collective, you have chemistry amongst yourselves and you know, you're able to work off of each other, but you've also got to develop instant chemistry with the audience because the audience becomes a big part of what you're doing. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, one of the early things there, there are a handful of rules to improv. It turns out that you can rehearse, you can practice improvising. So one of the early rules is yes. And which means that you're going to accept what's going on. You're going to say the word yes, or, you know, at least emotionally accept what's going on. And then, and meaning that you're going to add to it. So that's when somebody says, it's a beautiful day here at the beach. You don't go, what are you talking about? We're on the space station. You go, yes, it's a beautiful day at the beach. And I'm so glad to be here with my fiance or whatever. And then slowly line by line, you build what was, you know, a moment ago, just two people on stage with nothing but a couple of chairs to a beautiful tapestry and a vivid scene that the entire audience, you know, it's a, it's a shared hallucination that the audience all has together with us on stage. But the, the biggest thing is listening that you're accepting what everybody's saying, but you're listening to it. So we listened to the audience very deeply, very, very intently to, to hear all the details in what they're describing about their day or their job or the problem at work, or the fact that nobody knows how roundabouts work in their town or whatever the things are. So yes, chemistry is a huge part of it, but improv over time does become sort of a universal language. And you'll play with other experienced people that you've never worked with before, but using the same techniques and listening and yes, and somehow the magic trick works. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's definitely a team sport because it's not about just, you know, doing the best performance you can, but it's about setting up the scene partners to have success as well. You have to make sure that you're giving them something that they can work with, or do you like to really just try to challenge them and almost say a little bit of, yeah, let's see what you can do with that. Oh, there's some of each. Are you an improviser? You sound like you might be an improviser. Uh, no, but I've, I've, I've looked at it and said, I'd like to try that someday, but I have not made the plunge. Oh my goodness. You absolutely should. Everybody on the planet should, uh, you're obviously in a performance career and a forward facing career as a public figure. Um, so certainly people that do what we do for a living should, but everybody should, including those people that say, Oh, I could never, especially the people that say like, Oh, I'm so shy or I'm not quick on my feet or people who have no intention of being in the public eye or on stage or an actor or a comedian or whatever. It's good for everybody. Improvisation in addition to being fun and funny is such a good tool to gain confidence and, and erase fear and to develop listening and respect for others and empathy. It shows you, uh, every moment is improvised in life. There's no script for what we're doing right now. There's no script for when you get out of bed in the morning and getting, you know, in the car and going to work or going to the gas station or going to the diner for lunch or any of that sort of thing. Everybody of it is improvised. Uncertainty is everywhere. And improv through practice teaches you that uncertainty isn't that scary, that failure, which is going to come because life is unpredictable and not everything's going to go perfectly the first time, um, that, that, that failure or, or not being perfect right away is not a fatal or lasting condition. And so all of life becomes a little bit less scary and it's the very best thing. Um, but to your earlier point, yes, the, the making your scene partner look good and working together. It is the teamiest of sports improv is it is the, uh, if, if anybody's showboating, if anybody's out there for themselves, if for even a moment, you're not fully focused in listening, you're going to let others down. It is the seal team six of, of performance arts. And, uh, and boy, everybody has to be fully focused on one another and doing it for the team and not for yourself. Well, I was going to ask you if you, if you have any nerves or anxiety, stepping onto the stage, working without a script, if that, if that kind of makes you anxious about getting into each performance, but it sounds like, you know, you're coming at it from a perspective of. It's just, it's just a muscle. It's just something that you're, you're able to flex when you need to. I mean, it's, it is a muscle. It's a skill. It's a, it's a technique for sure that, um, you know, uh, it's improv is impossible. It should never have worked once in the history of humanity. The fact that it does so routinely is a testament to the technique of it all. Um, but I mean, I, you know, cards on the table, like, um, it is the unknown, right? So very briefly from time to time, uh, most of the time I can't wait to get out there and do it. And it feels like, you know, jumping in the giant pool of fun, but every once in a while in the wings, just before we're announced and take the stage, I do come to my senses and go, this is a terrible idea. Hundreds of people have paid $40 each or whatever it is to come see us. And we have nothing planned for them. We have not prepared for this in any way, aside from the 35 years of training and experience, but, um, there's no script for what's about to happen for the next 60 minutes. And so it does sometimes feel for one, for three eighths of a second, you're like, what have we done? This is a terrible idea. And then you step out on stage and you remember, Oh, this is what I do for a living. This is where I live. This is my joy. And then I'm sure it doesn't take very long. Once, once everything starts firing off on all cylinders to just really kind of take all of that energy and funnel it into the performance. It's fun. The, the, it's a good spur. It's a good nervous because you do go out on stage going, we don't know where we're going to be in an hour. We have, we truly have nothing planned. We have to get information from these folks to work with, to, to do what we do for a living. So, um, it's a, it's a tight rope with no net. So that, that brand of, uh, encouragement, I think is, um, is a motivator for sure. It's exciting. I mean, and as such, you know, you're with a group of people, like you said, that have a lot of experience in this that are, are recognizable people. So when you're going through all of this, you, you could probably just get those one suggestions at the beginning and go for an hour. How do you balance being able to, you know, continue on with what you're doing, but then also keep the audience involved and engaged? Oh, I think that they, um, it depends on where, where we perform. For instance, I, many people that we met in Norfolk, Nebraska, a couple of weeks ago, truly said, I've never seen improv for an improv show before really looking forward to this, or, um, you know, didn't like the show, love the show. Didn't know what to expect kind of thing. Um, so in those cases, sometimes it's a, a bit of a, uh, uh, translation at the beginning to demonstrate what we're doing. Like you're going to see that you mentioned that, uh, your high school teacher was named Mr. Butka and we're going to use that in a theme, you know, maybe about high school, maybe not. Um, so we're teaching plays, uh, people that in other, you know, in major cities, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, wherever, like where people are a little bit more improv savvy, there's less of that, um, kind of bringing people up to speed. But, um, but yes, it's, um, the, the audience learns to trust us along the way. We, we prove that we're funny. We prove that we're using the material. We, you know, there's no way that we could have planned this scene that happened in the specific playground that was mentioned five minutes earlier by an audience member who's not a plant and, and that sort of thing. So yes, it's, uh, the audience begins to trust us. And, um, and we often don't know when we step down into a scene, uh, we're not coming out because we have an idea we're coming out because, uh, the scene prior was done. Like they had done their job. They had, they had exploited a, you know, used the suggestion and explored it and, uh, and that needed to be done. And so very often you're making eye contact with your scene partner in the next scene going, what happens next? And I would also assume that, you know, of course we, we know you from so many great roles on, on television. And I, I would assume that improv makes you a better actor when it comes to working with a script. I can't imagine being an actor without being an improviser. That would seem so scary to me to only have the words, um, and not be able to envision more about your character than is typed in the middle of a page of script kind of thing. The, um, being an improviser, uh, allows you to see, because, you know, in the course of the set that we'll play on July 16th in Fall River, the, uh, you know, I imagine I'll be playing old people and young people and nice people and mean people and dumb people and smart people and rich people and poor people. And so you, you, in the course of a one improv set, we'll play, you know, a dozen or more characters probably. And that lends itself to exploring perspective. And, you know, you have to get into these characters very quickly sort of thing. So when you're handed a piece of, uh, of material, a script, uh, for a television show or a play or a movie, um, I think improvisers have a real advantage because we are able to see very vividly the full spectrum of like this being dirge tragedy all the way to slapstick comedy. And we're able to, you know, pinpoint a couple of places along that long arc to go, um, how am I going to play this one? And it also encourages you as all acting does, but I think improv just gives you more reps at this, more experience with this to look at a scene and go, what kind of day is my character having? Is this, is this, you know, day 1000 of infinity and it's drudgery, or is this a special day? What was my character doing on the way here? Uh, well, are they looking forward to this moment that we're about to dramatize or are they not? And then, um, what kind of, what are they going to do the moment that the scene is over when they walk out of this room? Um, are they relieved? Are they, uh, you know, tortured by what they have to now go and do? It's, um, it's a lot of different, uh, different looks at it. So there are certainly actors who are not, uh, improvisers. I can't imagine it. Well, and I'm sure that you've worked with plenty of directors who appreciate that. And I'm sure you don't have to name any names, but I'm sure you've worked with some writers who don't, you know, like, well, you're taking things beyond kind of what had the character, but you have to inhabit these characters. You have to, you have to have some ownership and connection with them. It's true. Um, some, some, I have a meeting later today with a director, a writer director for an independent film that I'm considering. And, uh, and the true question is going to be, are you precious about your words or are you open to some play? Because very often, um, improvising beyond like, uh, Mike sure is a, is a perfect example. He's created shows like parks and recreation and Brooklyn nine, nine, and the good place and man on the inside and the, and new things that haven't dropped yet. Um, they, his shows work so efficiently and are so great. Uh, the casts and crews are so wonderful. He has a no jerks rule. So everybody that works there in any capacity is good at what they do. They're happy to be there. They're getting paid. They know they're going to be home for dinner. Um, everybody has no, no ego, no defensiveness. They're a great team member. And so the shows work very efficiently. And so very often the scripts are hilarious on their own. So we'll shoot those, but very often there'll be plenty of time and they'll introduce the notion of a fun run. They'll come to us and say, okay, we got the, we shot the scripted part. We're good. Is there something you'd like to try? And very often with Mike Schur's cast, we're all, many of us are improvising. We're like, absolutely. I'd love to ruin this scene right now. And so you do your world's worst ideas sometimes. And you add, you know, the things that you've been holding back on saying during the scripted portion. And it turns out that lots and lots of that makes the final edit a little bit less. So with, um, shows like the good place, because the world building on the good place, which was a half hour sitcom about the afterlife, uh, starring Ted Danson and Kristen Bell. Um, that was a little bit more canonical. There were, there was more that we had to live by. So we improvised some, but a little bit less on that show than we did, for instance, on parks and recreation or Brooklyn nine nine. But, um, it's an awfully fun world where you are given gold to begin with, and then are offered the opportunity to turn that into something even, you know, even more fun. Well, out of all the characters that you played and you mentioned some of the programs you've been on, who is probably the one that people come up to you and recognize you as the most. It depends on where I am on the planet. Um, if, uh, if I'm in Canada or, or Europe, it's very often Kevin Cosner from Brooklyn nine, nine, that happens in the United States too. But, uh, the good place is, uh, is I played a character named Sean. I played, uh, Ted Danson's boss on the show called the good place. Um, and that one, I think it's a little bit more play in, uh, in the United States proper, but, um, in, in New Zealand and Australia and various places, uh, Brooklyn nine, nine is wildly, wildly popular. I mean, it was one of the funniest shows ever. And, uh, since I'll never, I probably won't get the chance to ask Michael share this question myself. I'll ask you you're you're as adjacent as I can get, but one of my all time favorite jokes and any of his work is actually the card at the end of the show when it says from Yulon. And I heard the voice and I said, that sounds like Nick Offerman. So I Googled does Nick Offerman say from Yulon? And it took me to a website called does Nick Offerman say from Yulon.com. And then when I clicked on that website, all that was on that website was one word. Yes. So I don't know who, I don't know if Michael came up with that, but that is the funniest thing that I've ever seen. He, um, they did it on set one day. Uh, I think they had the audio teams, uh, stop, uh, you know, when the, when they were moving on from a setup on parks and recreation, I think they, I think there might even be video of it. If you really go digging, I'll, I'll see if I have it and we'll send it to you if I, if I find it. Um, but yeah, they just had them say it like five times, I think. And they were like, we got it. It's great. Um, yeah, they've, um, they've used that too. There's an Easter egg. Uh, Nick Offerman's voice is, uh, is of a demon in the bad place to a giant, a gigantic sort of fire monster that walks past at one point. Uh, or actually no, I think it's a way more, uh, fantastic character, but yes, they like to, um, Mike is a big fan of Easter eggs. So there are, if you watch the good place, there are allusions to, uh, parks and recreation within it. There's a John Ralphio's, uh, is in a magazine ad and, um, uh, Jason Manzoukas, this character has some things as well. There are references to various shows, uh, within each other. Well, I love it. And I love the idea of all of this, you know, this, uh, kind of working together and everybody making everybody better. That's what we need more of in the world. And we can look at comedy as a way to kind of guide us toward that. Positively. Yeah. Um, Mike sure. In addition to having a no jerks rule has a best idea wins rule. So if, um, you know, it's the guy that whose job it is to bring in all the heavy cables and lights, um, have an idea for a line in the show, they're going to consider it. It's not about packing order or whatever, best idea wins. And, um, and so they're very open and makes it a very, uh, collaborative, very collegial, very kind workplace. It's, it's the most fun. It makes you wonder, uh, when you get in the car to go home at night, why the rest of the world doesn't work this way. Absolutely. Well, people are going to get to see it up close and personal in fall river on July 16th with bluebird improv. It's going to be a fantastic show. And I hope that the fall river crowd does not disappoint you. You're probably going to get some Portuguese words thrown at you. I don't know if you'll understand them, but they're going to try to trip you up with, you know, things like linguisa and Charisse and, uh, but, uh, you'll, you'll definitely have some fun with this crowd. Those both sound like sausages to me. Are those both sausages? I hope those are both sausages. Yes. Hey, somebody, somebody will probably have some for you to try while you're there. Oh, I'd love it. Can't wait. All right. Thank you so much, Mark. This has been a fantastic discussion and you've inspired me. Maybe I will give some improv a try. Oh, do it. It'll be, it's briefly uncomfortable because you're making yourself vulnerable and you truly don't know what's about to happen, but the payoff is tremendous and everybody in the world should take an improv class. All right. Well, thank you so much, sir. We look forward to seeing you on the 16th. Thank you very much. Looking forward to it.