This Israel Smear Is Absolutely Deranged

Even by the standards of the British media, this is the absolute pits. Now the very real evil of anti-semitism has been constantly weaponised, cynically abused by defenders of Israel to shut down any scrutiny of the crimes, including genocide, that Israel has committed. I'm just going to read these four responses, shall we put it that way, to an initiative which Zak Polanski, the leader of the Green Party of England and Wales, has backed, with just constantly emphasising that he is the only Jewish party leader in the country. Stephen Pollard in the Daily Telegraph, Zak Polanski wants a Jew register, what could be more sinister than that? Zak Goldsmith, the conservative politician who ran a overtly racist mayoral campaign 10 years ago, what a disgusting piece of human trash he is, how can he live with himself? Five vomiting emojis. Camilla Tomini at the Telegraph, just a reminder, Polanski is the actual leader of a political party calling for a list of Jews to be compiled, and Hadley Feynman at the Times, perhaps they could be identified by being made to wear, I don't know, I'm just spitballing here, a Star of David. What the hell are these people talking about? We're going to talk about that with John McEvoy, who is the chief reporter at Declassified UK, who do absolutely crucial investigative work, not least when it comes to, for example, Israel's genocide and Britain's role in Israel's genocide. Great to speak to you, John, how are you doing? Thanks very much for having me, Owen. What the hell are these people, what they're talking about is quite, well, beyond a serious allegation. They're saying that the only Jewish party leader in the country wants to compile a register of Jews to be identified, and that's been linked to the Holocaust, actually. I mean, I'm not exaggerating there. The suggestion is that he wants to draw up a list of Jews, like the Nazis, for the purpose of identifying them based on Hadley Feynman's tweet for extermination. What are they talking about? Yeah, so this is absolutely incredible, the response to the campaign letter that we put out with the ICJP. I mean, as you mentioned, you've got leading columnists, journalists in the UK who are deliberately and cynically misconstruing what this campaign is about in order to suggest that the only Jewish leader of a major political party in the UK is bringing about the Holocaust, effectively. I was actually just dumbfounded to see these responses, these sinister, cynical responses. Now what they are, in fact, responding to when they say that Polanski wants to compile a register or a list of Jews was a campaign letter that was prepared by Declassified UK and the International Centre of Justice for Palestinians with regards to the Britons who have served in the IDF amid an active genocide. Now what the letter calls for is very simple, firmly in the public interest and in line with domestic and international law, which is, first of all, actually collect data on those Britons who have left the country to go and fight in a genocide and then return again, because it's worth bearing in mind that the UK government actually wasn't collecting any data on this whatsoever. If you went to the Ministry of Defence or the Home Office or the Foreign Office with a Freedom of Information request or a parliamentary question about how many Brits were serving in the IDF amid the genocide, they would say, we simply do not know, we do not collect data on this. So that was the first demand basically, just to find out how many of those Britons have been doing this. The second demand was to enforce a disclosure agreement for those who are returning from Tel Aviv to Britain, simply say whether they have been fighting for the idea in Gaza. Now obviously that would not capture all Israelis or international travellers coming from Tel Aviv, that would capture those simply who had been fighting for the IDF right. And the third demand, a very simple demand in line with international law, was to conduct robust independent investigations into those who had fought for the idea in Gaza to ascertain whether they had been involved in war crimes and crimes against humanity. So as I said, very simple, firmly in the public interest and firmly in line with international law. You mentioned the ICJP there, just so everyone knows, that's the International Centre of Justice for Palestinians, and what they've done already is compiled a dossier of British soldiers where there was identifiable material and evidence which shows them participating in war crimes in Gaza. I should note that dossier was submitted to the Metropolitan Police with the view to try and prosecute and the Metropolitan Police are refusing to do so, which I have to say is not a shock or surprise. I just think it's worth just emphasising though, we're talking here, I mean, you know, 2,000 people, 2,000 dual nationals, we obviously know overwhelming, relentless evidence of war crimes, crimes against humanity being committed on a daily basis. Genocide has been committed in Gaza. It's absolutely just a fact that vast numbers of those people have committed war crimes, isn't it? I mean, that's what we're talking about here. We're saying it's just a fact that this particular grouping of people who are people who served in the Israeli army will have committed lots of war crimes. We don't know what most of those war crimes are because of each individual, but that's the point, that's a certainty. Yeah, precisely, and the responses that, you know, as you mentioned from Hadley Freeman and others, of equating the demands in this letter with calling for another holocaust, I mean, they are deeply anti-Semitic comments, right? I mean, it's commonly and rightly accepted that conflating Israel with Jews everywhere is anti-Semitic and these people are not only doing that, they're conflating the IDF and potential war criminals with Jews everywhere. So what these people are engaging in, I would say, is profound levels of anti-Semitism themselves in trying to cynically and dishonestly read the campaign as a form of anti-Semitism. So I think that's worth pointing out. But the campaign itself is, you know, launched in response to a general disregard on the part of the UK government with regards to upholding international law when it comes to the genocide in Gaza. I mean, you mentioned the Metropolitan Police investigation, I mean, they didn't even get as far as an investigation, they closed their scoping mission and you can tell there's a broader lack of political will to investigate Britons who joined the IDF. But in the broader context, I mean, we're talking about, you know, David Cameron put pressure and threatened the ICC about issuing arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu and Yoav Galant. We've had several high-ranking IDF officers, including Chief of the General Staff Hertziya Halevi, Chief of the Air Force that's been raining bombs down on Gaza relentlessly for the past two and a half years, Thoma Barr, Oded Bassiouk, high-level IDF officer, who were all welcome to the UK. The UK government invited them to secretly visit, not only allowed them to enter the country, but actually provided them with special diplomatic immunity to do so. So I think this campaign sits in response to a wider disregard on the part of the UK government for international law itself. It's worth just to draw out what you said in that first part. I mean, there's huge, to say the least, huge problems with the official so-called definition of anti-Semitism, the IHRA definition, which has rightly been critiqued for stifling opposition to Israel's crimes. It's notable that one of the examples it gives is holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the State of Israel, which we all should agree is anti-Semitism. And it's just so astonishing and so irresponsible. I think that's a really important point. So basically, you know, the vast majority of people in Britain, the polling shows this, are appalled by Israel's war crimes. 70% think Israel has committed war crimes. The majority want Benjamin Netanyahu arrested for war crimes. The majority want an arms embargo. We could go on. To basically try and encourage, plant into people's minds, oh, you don't, you're angry about all of this? You're angry about all these crimes? Jews. And that's what they're doing. I mean, that's literally what they're doing. I just find the whole thing just astonishing. In terms of the idea of, sorry, just, I just thought it was worth just emphasising that point because it's just, in terms of just, because you've done so much work at Declassified exposing the complicity of the British state, and this is just, you know, I mean, we can talk about arms embargoes and all the rest of it, but they're freely allowing their own citizens to travel to a state which is committing war crimes on a daily basis in order to participate in those war crimes. So we've just had a massive, rightly, because they banned two US commentators for statements opposing the genocide on the grounds that, you know, that would be not conducive to the public good, that, you know, they would be destabilising their presence, whilst if you're a dual national who wants to go and commit war crimes over in Israel, sorry, over in Gaza, in Palestine, you can enter it, go and come back with no questions answered. I mean, it exposes complicity again, doesn't it? Yeah, it's astonishing, and I mean, something I didn't mention earlier is that, obviously, in January 2024, the International Court of Justice put all member states on notice that there was a plausible genocide taking place in Gaza, and shortly after the UN Commission of Inquiry re-emphasised that point and basically said at the point of that ruling in January 2024, all member states of the UN ought to have been put on notice about its facilitation and complicity in the genocide. Now, that would obviously include allowing British citizens, British-Israeli dual nationals, to freely leave the country, engage in that genocide and then return home, and no questions asked, no police interview at the border, no data even collected about those who are doing this. So, yeah, I mean, this is firmly, you know, an example of how the UK government has a total disregard for international law when it comes to Israel's war crimes. The other thing to mention with regards to these smear campaigns, it's been astonishing to see the level of abuse that has been directed towards Sapkolanski, but I think this also speaks to a broader fear on the part of, you know, pro-Israel figures and the Israeli government as well. I mean, as a settler colonial society, it relies on immigration to Israel, the IDF relies to a significant degree on foreign fighters, and of course it relies to a significant degree on foreign military aid, foreign military sales, particularly from the likes of the US, Britain and Germany. So, I think when it comes to these kinds of campaigns, what they're considerably concerned about is it kind of becoming transnational, and I mean, in response to our campaign, we've already seen this very issue being raised in Australian parliament, we're seeing campaign groups elsewhere, you know, presenting it as that they should be doing. I mean, initially, this was a call that was put out by the Hague group, which is a conglomeration of 40 states that are seeking justice for the Palestinians. So, this is an idea that is catching on. In the UK, we've already got over 19,000 signatures, as well as over 60 prominent figures who have signed up to it. So, this is something that people, you know, the general public are firmly on side with, and I think that's why they're concerned about it, and that's why they're resorting to such incredibly, you know, insulting attacks. Again, just in terms of the legal position, just so everyone's also aware, the Genocide Convention is often, that's the shorthand, but the long form is Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, and it imposes on signatory states that they must, that genocide is a crime in which they must undertake to prevent and to punish. So, it's not just to punish it, it's to prevent the genocide, and obviously, allowing British nationals to go and participate in a genocide is doing the exact opposite. I mean, obviously, at the moment, you know, again, if you're a foreign fighter for certain groups, then obviously you face incarceration, don't you, under the law. I mean, their argument is that, well, this is an ally, but that's not the basis on which international law has been drawn up. It's not, you know, are you allied with the state? Is the state committing genocide, and are they committing war crimes? Yeah, of course, and on the flip side of that, if you look domestically, you can see the full weight of the British state being brought to bear on Palestine Action, you know, the first civil disobedience group to be prescribed as a terrorist organisation. Next week, we're going to see the first four activists potentially sentenced as terrorists for what the court has found all they're guilty of is criminal damage. Now, that is a historic first as well, and in the broader context, we've seen over 3,000 people, some of them elderly vicars, pensioners, disabled people, arrested under terrorism laws for holding placards. And so, while this is simultaneously going on, you've got absolutely no political will whatsoever, and apparently no judicial effort neither, to investigate those who may well have engaged in the genocide right. So, you can see where the political will lies in this country, and it certainly doesn't rely, it certainly doesn't lie with the Palestinians. Yeah, if you're a retired vicar holding a plaque on opposing genocide, then you get arrested if you go and shoot some kids in the face. No consequences. I mean, just a couple of because I'm going to ask you finally about just broader complicity, but I mean, in terms of just generally, there is a, I mean, because obviously Israel does enjoy huge impunity, obviously, but there is this growing push globally to try and kind of make Israeli soldiers face justice, and that includes Israeli soldiers visiting states, so not, for example, you know, state where they're necessarily nationals, but visiting holidays and so on. I mean, what do you think about that? Because they got so rattled, because Israeli soldiers were posting their war crimes online, constantly, you know, burning homes down, that kind of thing, and, you know, then there was a call put out to try and get them to stop doing that on the basis that they're incriminating themselves. What do you think about that? Do you think, actually, a lot of Israeli people who participate in the genocide actually should be worried that they will face justice? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Israeli soldiers, obviously, within Israel are not reprimanded in any meaningful sense. I mean, there was a mass rape of a Palestinian detainee in a prison, right, and the Israeli official who released that information was subject to serious threat. People came out kind of campaigning and protesting in favour of those Israeli military officers who had engaged in that sexual violence against the detainee, so you can kind of see how they are treated in that country effectively as war heroes. But yeah, of course, once they leave that jurisdiction, then they are potentially subject to private arrest applications under universal jurisdiction legislation, which basically means that those who have committed the most serious crimes, genocide, torture, and so on, that they can be prosecuted outside of the jurisdiction where that act took place, and that's the case in the UK, that's the case in different jurisdictions as well. So the kind of work that the Hindriyab Foundation is doing, and also lawyers everywhere, could try and make sure that if states will not act, then private arrest applications can be put in to try and ensure accountability and justice for the Palestinians. So I think that's a really important move, but it's important to note that those kinds of moves are taking place because of the lack of state action, because of the lack of political will on the parts of our government to actually uphold international law and ensure that those who have committed war crimes are held accountable. Before we just finally ask you about the campaign and how people can support it, I mean, you've done so much work in the classified general British complicity, so what are the kind of ongoing forms of complicity that the British Yes, so there's the ongoing issue of UK-Israel military collaboration, and there was a military deal that was signed between the IDF and the MOD back in 2020. We were told last year that was ongoing. There's still the issue of arms sales to Israel, and obviously the UK government had carved out the F-35 components, where they basically undermined their own domestic legislation in order to continue to indirectly supply fighter jet components to the IDF, which have been used obviously not only in Gaza but in Lebanon and elsewhere in the region to facilitate Israel's escalating and aggressive foreign policy. But the other element is diplomatic and is economic in the form of trade agreements. I mean, in virtually every domain of policy-making, the UK and Israel retain quite friendly relations, and even when it comes to, for instance, sanctions that have been placed on Israel, I would argue that the arms suspensions were cover for business as usual, more or less, particularly given the F-35 carve-out. But when you take the sanctions on, for example, Finance Minister Bezalel Smatrich, who is a fanatic, a right-wing fascistic fanatic, I mean, he has been sanctioned in a personal capacity but not in his capacity as the Israeli Ministry of Finance. Now, the Israeli Ministry of Finance oversees the arms firm Raphael, which in turn owns an arms company in Newcastle called Pearson Engineering. Now, that arms company, in effect, overseen by the Israeli Ministry of Finance, is still getting major deals from the UK Ministry of Defence. We are in effect funding Bezalel Smatrich's Israeli Ministry of Finance while the UK government pretends to be sanctioning him. So I would argue that much of the relation pre-suspensions, pre-sanctions is still in place, and the sanctions that have been implemented have been effectively useless. Just finally, how can people support this campaign? I mean, there's the letter, which I should have signed, but I missed your messages, so apologies for that. I'm rectifying that now. But yeah, how can people support the important campaign that I should have supported, but I'm incompetent? Yeah, so you can go on our website, declassifieduk.org, you'll find the campaign there. It's already been signed by over 19,000 people and we're inviting the general public to attach their name to it. Yeah, really demonstrate to these cynical smear campaigns that we won't be cowed and we'll continue fighting for justice. It's called Nobody Wants to Live Next to a War Criminal. I mean, the bar really is on the floor, isn't it? I mean, I think it's just a basic reasonable request. Don't want to live next to people who shoot kids in the face. I don't know. Yeah, and particularly Palestinians in the UK, right? Well, exactly, exactly, exactly. And more broadly, often because there's the Islamophobic justifications for it, you know, British Muslims and we could go on, obviously, or people of Arab heritage and people who just don't like mass, don't like genocide. Please like, subscribe, leave your thoughts, leave your comments, do share the video, but John, really, really appreciate it and really important campaign. Thanks so much for having us on. Cheers.