Do Buttercup and Westley Find True Love in The Princess Bride?

It's a fairy tale universe. It functions by fairy tale rules. But if this were a real couple in the real world, I would have a few pointers here and there. Hardly complimentary, your highness. If their love is based on she loves ordering him around and he loves obeying her, I don't know how long that's going to last in either direction. Because he insults her, he puts her down, he threatens her. Kidnaps her. And he kind of terrifies her a little bit. And what is that worth? The promise of a woman. You're very funny, highness. In real life, she'd be mad as hell. You can die slowly, cut into a thousand pieces. And he's doing it to see if she still loves him. You could take the mask off and see what happens. Love is built on actually knowing somebody and seeing if who you think they are matches the picture you have in your brain and adjusting the picture you have in your brain with reality and seeing, do I still want this? Do I still choose this? I love this dumb, silly, amazing, incredible, stupid movie. Hello, my name is Jonathan Decker. Your mental health is struggling. Prepare for healing. And I'm Alan Seawright and I'm terribly comfortable. All I know is that my Inigo Montoya sounds a lot like Antonio Banderas. It really does. But hey, we're going to jump. And I'm Puss in Boots. Fear me if you dare. You look amazing, by the way. Thank you. You're not looking too bad yourself. No, but you jumped up at least 10% in sexiness. It's because I've hidden most of my face. Listen, he said it. Anyways, today we're going to do a movie couples therapy on The Princess Bride. Absolutely one of my all time favorites. One of the best movies ever made. It is. It is perfect. I want to be very clear. I'm not criticizing this movie, nor am I criticizing this relationship in the context of this movie, like in this universe. It's a fairy tale universe. It functions by fairy tale rules. But if this were a real couple in the real world, I would have a few pointers here and there. And on top of that, it's actually critiquing the fairy tale genre. So it is both functioning as the thing that it's critiquing and a critique of the thing, which, as Edgar Wright can tell you, is not easy to do. But when you nail it, it's cinematic perfection. You ain't seen my voice too. All right, let's dive in. These are not comfortable. This is not the future. I'm taking it off. Nothing gave Buttercup as much pleasure as ordering Wesley around. Farmboy, polish my horse's saddle. I want to see my face shining in it by morning. As you wish. He skips away. As you wish was all he ever said to me. I always thought it was more of a flounce than a skip. Accurate. Farmboy, fill these with water, please. As you wish. It's so wholesome and lovely in a way. Well, you have really pretty people looking at each other. What he meant was, I love you. And even more amazing was the day she realized she truly loved him back. Farmboy. There. Fetch me that pitcher. This great little performance by her of looking around for something for him to do because she wants him to stay. I love that he never, he just looks at her as he takes it down. Hold it, hold it. What is this? Are you trying to trick me? Where's the sports? Is this a kissing book? The frame story is absolutely not necessary to this film. And it adds so much to the movie. Hard to go wrong with Peter Falk and Fred Savage. But holy crap, so much fun. And imitating it was the best part of PG-13 Deadpool. Yes, 100%. Did you reconstruct the bedroom set from the Princess Bride? Inconceivable! You know what might have helped Westley and Buttercup through the trauma of their long separation and maybe feeling a little bit betrayed? Or helped Inigo process his grief in a healthier way instead of being consumed by revenge lust? That's right, a therapist. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp connects you with a licensed therapist who is trained to listen and give you helpful, unbiased advice. Over 4 million people have used BetterHelp to start living a happier, healthier life. To get started, click the link below or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinematherapy to fill out the questionnaire and assess your specific needs. And then you'll get matched with a therapist, usually in 48 hours or less. BetterHelp has a network of over 30,000 therapists with a wide range of expertise. And they're committed to helping you find a therapist who's a good fit for you. That's why you can switch to a new therapist at no additional cost if the one you're first paired with isn't a good fit. And you can also choose times that are convenient for you. You don't have to go to their office at 2.30 in the morning because it's a weird all-night therapist and he's only there at 2.30 in the morning for somebody. And you can choose how you want to do your therapy sessions. A phone call, a video chat, or even via messaging. You know, I'd never thought of that. I always prefer video chat or live face-to-face, but I can totally see people who would want to do therapy just in messaging. Anyway, what I mean is whatever's the most comfortable for you. Although, I don't think they offer therapy in the fire swamp. Yeah, there's no service there. Also, you get zero bars in the pit of despair. So if you think you might benefit from therapy, click on the link below or go to betterhelp.com forward slash cinematherapy. You'll get 10% off your first month of BetterHelp so you can connect with a therapist and see if it helps you. Well, this has been great. Shall we get back to our episode? As you wish. Okay, so it wasn't until I was an adult that I realized what you were saying earlier, that this is both a fairy tale and a gentle parody of fairy tales. Oh, in some cases, not gentle at all. It's definitely taking the piss out of things. Because when I was a kid, unlike Fred Savage, I was a hopeless romantic even as a little boy. And so I completely just bought into the romance. And then now as an adult, I'm like, if their love is based on she loves ordering him around and he loves obeying her, I don't know how long that's going to last in either direction. I don't know. It's worked great for my parents for 40 years. Oh my gosh. Boy, that escalated quickly. And all he says to her is, as you wish. What he means is, I love you. This isn't love, it's infatuation. Love is built on actually knowing somebody and seeing if who you think they are matches the picture you have in your brain. Right. And adjusting the picture you have in your brain with reality and seeing, do I still want this? Do I still choose this? And that requires conversation. They haven't had that. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket. Again, I'm saying perfection as a movie, but let's talk about reality. Reality of the relationship. Yeah. To be fair. Okay. Who wouldn't get infatuated with Wesley? I'm not even, I'm like one eighth as cute. Fumboy. One millionth as cute as Cary Elwes circa 1987. Pass me the popcorn. As you wish. If I had pearls, I would clutch them. Oh dear Lord, just kiss already. Do you know what this is? What? Devil's food cake. What? It's chocolate with chocolate on it. That's perfect. It's chocolate with some chocolate. It's perfect for a lovely romance like this. This is red velvet. It's a little bit of sex appeal with your popcorn. There we go. Yeah, you can get this. Sexy chocolate and chocolatey chocolate. At our store. At ctpopcorn.com. You can buy popcorn that's got our faces on it and good flavors in it. Rest highness. I know who you are. Your cruelty reveals everything. You're the dread pirate Roberts. Admit it. With pride. What can I do for you? You can die slowly cut into a thousand pieces. Hardly complimentary your highness. Why lose your venom on me? You killed my love. It's possible. I kill a lot of people. Who was this love of yours? Another prince like this one? And it makes sense that she doesn't recognize his voice because they hardly talked. Poor. Poor and perfect. With eyes like the sea after a storm. On the high seas your ship attacked. The dread pirate Roberts never takes prisoners. I can't afford to make exceptions. I mean once word leaks out that a pirate has gone soft. People begin to disobey you and then it's nothing but work, work, work all the time. You mock my pain. Life is pain highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something. So obviously he's heard that she moved on. He's testing to see if she still loves him. This would be what five years ago? Does it bother you to hear? Nothing you can say will upset me. He died well. That should please you. No bribe attempts or blubbering. I love that he's building himself up. She simply said please. Please I need to live. It was the please that caught my memory. I asked him what was so important for him. True love he replied. And then he spoke of a girl of surpassing beauty and faithfulness. I can only assume he meant you. So this is lovely though. Through the charade he's confessing his love still for her. And what am I? Faithfulness he talked of madam. Your enduring faithfulness. Now tell me truly. When you found out he was gone did you get engaged to your prince at the same hour? Or did you wait a whole week out of respect for the dead? You mocked me once. Never do it again. I died that day. You can die too for all I care. Quit Wesley. What have I done? Oh gosh. Definitely not a dude in drag. Wonderful scene later recreated in Hot Rod. The scene in Hot Rod is 10 times what this one is. Yeah well he hits like trees and rocks and stuff all the way down. So great. I love this movie. I love this dumb, silly, amazing, incredible, stupid movie. And I love you random citizen. So let's talk about the stunt first of all. So you say that's a guy in drag. It is a guy. I mean all through film history. Really up until the late 90s early 2000s it was very common to have male stunt performers put on a wig and do a stunt for women, for female performers. The Screen Actors Guild in the United States stepped in and was like, hey there are stunt women. If you've got a woman character doing a stunt, you are required to hire a woman, a female stunt performer to do that stunt. And there are any number of stunt women throughout history. And there have been stunt women since there were stunt men. Like it goes back to the 20s and 30s. But pushing for that equality and equity only really happened about 20 years ago. Okay. All right. Good to know. I am enlightened. That hill is really, really steep, right? That they go tumbling down. When you're shooting a stunt like that, one trick you can get away with, especially if you have angles like they did where you can't really see a horizon line. Yeah. You just tilt the camera and suddenly it's way steeper. So I look at this and I'm wondering, when is it okay to play detective in your relationship? Because that's what Wesley's doing. That's what he's doing, yeah. And how do you do it? Because I wouldn't advise this way. Because he insults her. He puts her down. He threatens her. Kidnaps her. He kidnaps her. And he kind of terrifies her a little bit. Well, that sounds healthy. And he's doing it to see if she still loves him. And I'm sitting here going like, you could take the mask off and see what happens. You know, see how she reacts. So actually being a detective in your relationship doesn't look like getting into their emails, getting into their phone. My opinion is if you're in a healthy relationship, one, you probably won't feel the need. And two, if you ask, they would say, okay. He's also setting a test for her. Yeah. And relationship tests, I don't agree with. I don't like doing things without the consent of another person to see what they're all about. Like throwing your best friend at them to flirt with them to see what happens or... Is this a thing people do? Yeah, there's all sorts of sting operations, right? Really? I much prefer a direct approach. See what they say. And then over time, watch their behavior and see if it matches what they say. Yeah, dude, that's... That's some bullshit. That's gross. Don't be gross. Yeah. Mom, you're alive. If you want, I can fly. See, the love theme is lovely, but I agree with you on the rest of the synth score. I told you I would always come for you. Yeah, this is a sweet little bit of music. Well, you were dead. Death cannot stop true love. It can. What you can do is delay it for a while. I'll never doubt again. You completely ruined one of the greatest lines in cinema with your cynicism. No, please. What is it? What's the matter? They're kissing again. Do we have to hear the kissing part? Someday you may not mind so much. Let's get back to the fire swamp. That sounded good. You're sick, I'll humor you. We didn't need that Peter Falk bit. I just, I needed it. Here's what I would say about the Fred Savage stuff. It's the 80s. You're making a family movie. It's a love story. You're automatically, at least if you're thinking in terms of stereotypes and target audiences and pink toy aisles of that era. Yeah. You're definitely attracting the little girls to the story. Well, and the movie is called The Princess Bride. The girly, girly girl. Right. So opening on a kid playing baseball on a Nintendo. Yeah. And his grandfather telling him that there's sword fights and there's betrayals and there's torture. I know as a little boy, I was like, okay, I'll stay. All right. Sure. Yeah. As a little boy, you attach to Fred Savage and also by the end, you're like, it's okay if they kiss, right? It's actually pretty ingenious. I watched this movie when I was six years old, like opening weekend in theaters. And by the end, I was like, it's okay that there's kissing. It's fine. Okay. So this is incredibly beautiful and romantic. I'm not a filmmaker, but I love like the way it's framed, the way it pushes in as they find each other. You know, they're on the ground. And I love the line of dialogue that Alan stepped on. I didn't step on it. No, you waited for a pause. I inserted right into the pause and ruined everything. I can't say I'm surprised. But death cannot stop true love. All it can do is delay it for a little while. It's a beautiful piece of writing. Yeah, it's really nice. And in the movie, it all works because they found each other and they're so just wrapped up in their passion. In real life, she'd be mad as hell. It kind of reminds me of the meme. You disappeared for five years. Where have you been? Right. And then later he explains, oh, I was the Dread Pirate Roberts. Oh, so you've killed people. Like lots of people. Lots of people, right? Similarly, Buttercup should be kind of pissed at Wesley. Oh, 100%. Like she could be relieved that he's alive, but she's like, dude, you've been gone for five years. Bed's empty. No note. You disappeared. Then you show up. And instead of rescuing me and kissing me and comforting me, you show up and you kidnap me. You kind of terrorize me and bully me and insult me and interrogate me and manipulate me. And then you make me tumble down this hill. And then I tumble down this hill. Well, that one's kind of on her because she did push him. And Wesley should be like, hey, I was kind of a dick. But no, no. Again, I'm not criticizing the movie or even this in the context of this fairy tale and a gentle parody of fairy tales. But in real life, there would be a different conversation. Difference. That would have to be happening. Hold people responsible and be responsible. I don't care how hot you are. I do. Okay. I'm shallow. Ah, well, that's disappointing. If you're hot enough, accountability doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Right out the window. Oh my gosh. Is that so terrible? That shoulder wound is gnarly. Gave me nightmares when I was a kid because everything did. You mean you wish to surrender to me? Very well, I accept. Full marks for bravery. Don't make yourself a fool. But how will you capture us? We know the secrets of the fire swap. We can live there quite happily for some time. So whenever you feel like dying, feel free to visit. I tell you once again, surrender. Will not happen. For the last time, surrender. Death first. Will you promise not to hurt him? What was that? If we surrender and I return with you, will you promise not to hurt this man? May I live a thousand years and never hunt again. He is a sailor on the pirate ship Revenge. Promise to return him to his ship. I swear it will be done. Once we're out of sight, take him back to Florin and throw him in a pit of despair. I swear it will be done. I love these two. I love their dynamic. Like you were dead once and it almost destroyed me. I could not bear it if you died again. Not when I could save you. Okay, I'm just realizing now how very much Lord Farquaad and Shrek is based off of him. Oh, off of Chris Sarandon's character? Yes. Okay, so on top of being a really funny scene. Yeah. It's a beautiful bit of what actual love looks like from Buttercup here, where she's willing to sacrifice what she wants for what Wesley needs, which is to stay alive. And this brings us to an important point about what healthy sacrifice in a relationship looks like versus unhealthy sacrifice. I can do it very briefly. Prove it. Healthy sacrifice is putting your partner before yourself. Unhealthy sacrifice is putting your partner instead of yourself. If you lose yourself in the music, the moment, you've got to own it. If you lose... Damn you. If you lose yourself completely to another person, that's not a healthy relationship. When you put their needs first and then they do the same, that's healthy. And if you're putting their needs first and they're not doing the same, that's where you can say, hey, this is what I'm doing. I need you to follow suit or we're not going to last. We're not going to make it. Anytime it does acoustic guitar instead of synth, it's lovely. There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world. It would be a pity to damage yours. Wesley. Oh, Wesley, darling. Wesley, why won't you hold me? Gently. At a time like this, that's all you can think to say. Gently. Wesley, will you ever forgive me? What hideous sin have you committed lately? I got married. I didn't want to. It all happened so fast. Never happened. What? Never happened. But it did. I was there. This old man said man and wife. Did you say I do? Sort of skipped that part. Then you're not married. He didn't say it. He didn't do it. Wouldn't you agree, your highness? A technicality that will shortly be remedied. As a kid, I 100% believed when Wesley said, if you didn't say it, you didn't do it. Like, if you don't say I do, you're not married. And I'm like... I was like, oh yeah, that's the law. That's legal. That's how that works. And to this day, I'm still not sure. So far, this is my authority on marriage. You're a marriage and family therapist. Yes, so I help with the... I mean, you're not a lawyer. Listen, that's the thing, is I can help with the relationship. The actual law, I don't know. Well, I can't help with anything. As far as healthy relationship skills and practices, this is the best scene they have. Oh yeah. First of all, there's a shortage of perfect breasts in the world, in addition to being a really funny line. What a lovely compliment. It is a lovely, lovely compliment. And he means it, you know? And the way she apologizes, right? She takes ownership. I got married. I didn't want to, but I did. And the way he just immediately forgives her. And I mean, the way he forgives her is by saying, never happened. But I think I could do that. If people are really devastated by something they've said or done, and I could tell they're about to launch into a really pained apology, I can just go, never happened. And they can go, what? Never happened. Never said I do. This is a good movie. That's all. Here's the thing about this movie. It is a perfect script. The performances are phenomenal. Yeah. The cinematography is functional. Yeah. It's not amazing. Every once in a while, you get a really good shot in there. Oh, yeah, sure. There's a couple of real bangers. But for the most part, it's kind of flat lighting. And it's sort of like, here's a shot, and here's a shot. It's not amazing. And again, the score is not great. But here's the secret. If you have a perfect script and really, really great performances, none of that other ---- matters. Yeah. None of it matters. It's garnish. Exactly. It's garnish. It's the presentation is prettier of an immaculate meal. Yeah. And you still get it. And this is a wonderful date night movie. But it's a great example of watch movies with your brain turned on. Know when you're watching a movie and recognize, OK, that doesn't mean that this would work in real life. And a lot of romantic movies are like this. And people sometimes ask me, well, do you hate romantic movies now because you just poke holes in them? No, I'm just like, it's a movie. It's a movie. Yeah. I'm having fun. I'm having I'm enjoying it. And I enjoy the hell out of this. If the plot of a movie was just a super healthy, like, yeah, down the middle relationship, that'd be boring as hell. Yeah. You can have a super healthy relationship when the point, like a quiet place has a super healthy relationship. But that's not the driving thrust of the narrative. No, there's all of this other stuff around this relationship that is testing the relationship and we're seeing it be strong by being tested by external forces. Yeah. That's drama, right? That's great. If you have a super healthy relationship and that's the point, it's like we meet and we're dating and there's no real will they won't they? It's just like a steady progression of we love each other and now we're going to get married and we're going to just work together and go forward. It's like, OK. Counterpoint. Ghibli could pull it off. I love Studio Ghibli movies, but they portray a healthy relationship with a bunch of weird, fantastic, terrifying bullshit. You think? So until next time. I've never seen a sequel. Drop your sword. And watch movies. That was perfect. I did not know he was going to do that, but well done. Well played. We would very much like to thank our patrons. People like Guy Raine Kendra Juksh Denareth Ryan 3000 Your Kencho Twist I realize that I have no idea how to do Inigo Montoya. I just default to Zorro slash Puss in Boots. But here we are. And it is a glorious day. We love you, patrons. There's a shortage of perfect patrons in this world. Thank you for being ours. Aww.