Step Inside the Beautiful Antique-Filled Home of Charleston Designer Ellie Proctor)

Ellie, thank you so much for having us. I'm so happy to be here in Charleston and get to see your beautiful home because you have such an amazing eye for antiques and you've woven them so beautifully into your space and I can't wait to share your gorgeous home with our audience. Oh Caroline, it's great to have you here. We love our neighborhood, we love our home and it's just, I was so excited when you called. Yeah. So thanks for coming. Of course. Tell everyone about the house because it has an interesting history and then we'll kind of talk about everything you've done to it. Well, it's very interesting. My husband and I have always wanted to live in the old village. It's just such a picturesque place, you know, being on the water, you know, right on the intercoastal. Our home is not, but we're just so close to the Pitt Street Bridge where you watch the sun go down and it's just such a great neighborhood for families. But it took us a while to get here. So it was actually during COVID, March of 2020, when we were all, you know, quarantined and our realtor, Laura Farish, who was an amazing friend of ours. She's one of my best friends. She's been looking for years for us, for a home. And we told her, we said, you know, in the perfect world, it would be a historic home, but it's very hard to find a historic home with the price tag that we had in mind. So she said, you know, you're going to have to buy something that you'll add on to or that you can renovate. And we said, great. Cause you know, we've renovated so many houses by this time. And so she called us in March of 2020 and said, I think I found the house. And we got on our bikes because we only lived a couple of miles away, right outside of the village. We would just walk into the village all the time, like pretend we lived here. Right. And so we got on our bikes and we pulled into the little gravel drive. And I looked at my husband and I said, this is it. Like I knew, I swear, Caroline, I knew before we walked in the house that this was the house. It had this precious little lake, which is really a pond, you know, right next to it. And I said to my husband, I said, there's not even a house next to us. Like we have like space and we have space in the back to grow. And he's like, you are crazy. We are not buying a house today. And he bought a house and we did, we bought the house that day. It's just, you know, precious little cottage. It was originally a two bedroom, no bath, no kitchen. And when we bought it, it was a four bedroom, three bath. So it had many, you know, additions and renovations over the years. It's been in, you know, a couple of little magazines for cottage living. And then we of course, you know, expanded again. Yeah. So tell us about the renovation. I always knew it needed a great room. It needed a bigger space for our family to gather, which is the room we're sitting in because it just had a living and like a dining area and a small kitchen. And although our kids, you know, our children are grown, we just, you know, we entertain a lot and we really wanted this to be our retirement years, live here for 30 years, but we had time. So we hired, we think the best architect in Charleston, Beau Clowney. He's amazing. And he, he just gets it right the first time we told him we wanted to add a porch, a great room and a new master suite because the master bedroom was right off of the kitchen. It kind of wasn't feeling very private for us. And so he, he really just hit it out of the ballpark. He and Kate, the very first time we met with them, they just got our vision. And the good news is, you know, because I'm a designer, I said to him, you know, Beau, it's a big stretch for us to hire you because he's very sought after and we weren't sure if we could afford it, but he let us do all the interiors. Like he would give suggestions, but like, you know, I drew the cabinets, the ceiling. I mean, he really let us do the interiors and pick the finishes. And he did just the base of it for us to get us an amazing product. We couldn't have been happier with him. I mean, he's, I've since used him on a lot of projects with clients. It's amazing because, you know, this room that we're in, your great room, it's brand new as is the primary suite, but it feels like it's been here. Yeah. You know, it doesn't feel like it's just been freshly built. Well, that was one of the biggest things we told him. There were two things we said we wanted to look like it always could have been here. But when you have a little cottage that was originally two bedroom, no bath, and you have all these additions, you know, it's tricky. Right. So the one thing we said was absolutely, we do not want to see the house from the road. You know, you, especially in the village, right? You go in, you've got these little houses and people want more space and you see this giant structure behind it. We did not want that. Right. And he really hit all the bases. Right. So the beams helped, you know, we wanted height and for some reason, and the way he did the roof lines, I mean, people will walk in the front of the house and they just think it's a little cottage and they can't believe what's back here. Right. You know, so yeah, it's definitely not obvious from the street. Yeah. And like using, you know, old heart pine floors that are reclaimed, you know, tall baseboards, you know, using, you know, the tongue and groove, you know, old brick fireplace. I mean, all of that plays into it. What he drew, he did this little niche right here, which I wasn't really sure about in the beginning, because for me, it like took space away, but it kind of makes it feel cozy. Right. You know, he convinced me that that was the right thing to do. And, you know, adding in the bookcases and, you know, just all the touches, like I mimicked, see these doors back here. I took those from old doors that you'll see later over here in our little coffee station. And those are antique doors. And then I just redid them here. So just. Beautiful. So, okay. Once your architect has drawn the plans and you have the shell built, how did you come in and layer in all of your beautiful antique touches to make it feel as though it's been here for so long? Yeah. The biggest thing was we didn't have a space to hang in our kitchen, other than that peninsula with some bar stools. So I really wanted a gathering Island. That was like the key to this room and a comfy conversation space. So in order to get that, I didn't want this to be the bar you see right here. I wanted this to be an Island, but I wanted it raised, you know, a counter height. I didn't want table height. Well, it's very hard to find an Island that's antique because I wanted an antique table for sure. That is counter height. They're all table height. So I actually found this it's French pine. It is amazing. It's 11 feet long. And I had a guy add six inches. Yes. Can you see that? Isn't it cool? Because I knew that we wouldn't really hang around it if it was table height and we already had a dining room, you know, table and the other in our, you know, our room in there. So I just said, okay, it took me a year to find it, but I found it. And then I knew this would just be, you know, gathering space right here. And we use this. I mean, it's just a great, you know, mix of, of everything. So yeah, another thing that really makes the room feel warm and inviting, but yet current and coastal are wall treatments. So originally we thought we would have all wood walls in here and we knew we would have, you know, the tongue and groove ceiling and it just seemed too coastal for this old home. I didn't want it to look like a beach home. I have, you know, dark furnishings. I love color. I love, you know, English antiques. I wanted it to be like, you could even be walking in Virginia. We had moved here from Virginia. And so I wanted to bring all of those antiques that I'd collected and that we inherited. So I decided to put the two walls on either end in grass cloths. Yeah. So we sheet rock those and it just made such a difference. It just warmed it up. It's a great backdrop for some of the darker wood finishes you have because it makes them, I guess, less, they don't jump out as much. They sort of blend a little more. I always say grass cloth makes everything better. I mean, people will say, oh, wallpaper's back. Wallpaper has never left. It never left in our world. Definitely in the South, right? I mean, we've been wallpapering bedrooms and bathrooms and kitchens for years and years. Grass cloth is something that you just cannot beat it. And then there are some affordable ones out there. I mean, everything looks pretty on it. It's very forgiving too with like nails. If you like, you know, you want to change your art around, you kind of don't even see it. So I love to use it, you know, in multiple rooms and houses and, but it takes a little convincing. Right. It, you know, it does have so much more texture than just a solid wall and in a space that you want to feel old. It's that texture that you're missing. It does. It's charming. It really, and there's so many out there now. So it's, it's fun to, you know, I pretty much put grass cloth, I would say, in every job I do. Yeah. So tell me more about the antiques you brought in. I imagine a lot of these items were things that you collected over time, but is it hard to reimagine them in a new space? It really wasn't. You know, I would say my favorite is an antique English bow front chest, which, you know, there's one right behind me there. And that is the first antique I ever bought. I actually bought it in Florida, if you can believe that, from an antique dealer. And I remember it was more money than I had ever paid for anything. I was, I think 30 years old and I paid him in four installments and I've sold a hundred bow front chests since, but I can't part with it because it's like my first real antique. You know, a true antique is something like technically pre-civil war, but I would say, you know, before the 1900s, I consider a true antique, but even like something from the 1920s, I mean, you know, in today's world, that's considered an antique. So, you know, I, I kept family pieces that were good pieces. My mother-in-law gave us so many things. They were both only children, she and my father, and also we inherited many things. So, and I've since now given them to my daughter who has a home. So that's fun, but it is always fun to like, I'm never, I'm never stopping, you know, it's, I'm always finding another piece and exchanging them out. And my husband tells a joke, he's, he goes, I never know what I'm going to wake up to. Like, you know, in the middle of the night, you may have moved the nightstand right out, brought in something else. So yeah, it's antiques, just, they just warm a space. And I kind of tell my clients, like, if you don't want antiques, I'm probably not the person for you, because it's going to be very hard for me to not bring in vintage and, you know, but that being said, of course, all new upholstery, other than maybe an occasional, you know, precious little tufted chair in a bedroom or something that we've recovered. But, you know, I pretty much stick to mixing old and new, but I have to have, as we call it, brown furniture, anchoring, you know, big rooms. Yeah. So I love the story of the bow front chest, and I'm curious how different, how many different iterations you've had of it, you know, are you always kind of using it in the same way, house to house, or is it, you know, an entry table in this house and a dining sideboard in this house? Like, how are you sort of rethinking things? Yeah. I mean, I pretty much look at the space that is going to be seen a lot because this particular piece does mean a lot to me. And yeah, it's pretty much been in like our main living space, but I mean, I put them in bed rooms. I put them, I would say every client I have, they want them. I mean, they see them, it's just a beautiful piece of furniture, you know, it truly is. So like the piece behind you that I got from Kenny Ball Antiques in Charlottesville, and you know, it's an English sideboard that I never thought in a million years that I would buy English oak. It's oak. But if you buy good English oak, I mean, you know, people think, oh, oak, you think of like, you know, the early 1900s, like the kind of yellowy oak. No, it's just a warm piece. It holds all of my, you know, silverware. And so I knew I wanted these two pieces to anchor this room and then everything else around it could be light and colorful. And, you know, I have painted chairs and, you know, pretty fabrics, and I've got painted black here with brass. So just these two pieces, this being just bought this for that space. I needed like a long, yeah, I needed like that long piece between these two windows. And then this being the one that, you know, I've had forever. So. So for our listeners and our audience who maybe are interested in adding more antiques to their space, would you recommend, you know, having some measurements and a space that you're looking to fill? Or would you recommend just kind of going and seeing what, what you like and what like catches your eye? Kind of both. I mean, you can't buy things that aren't going to fit in your home, but I've always told my clients, if you buy what you love, you will love your home. Like when I show them something, if I send them an antique and they go, eh, I mean, unless I'm 100% sure that it's going to be perfect in that space, I say, no, we're going to move on to something else. You don't love it. We're not buying it. I mean, why would someone spend $3,000 on a antique chest that they're not in love with? Right. So I would say, you know, the easiest thing to do when you're starting out is to go to yard sales, go to even Goodwill, buy a little, you know, silver tray that you can put pretties on. Like you don't have to spend a lot of money to bring in old things to make your house seem more inviting and warm, but then invest in good pieces. You know, if you, but that doesn't mean that you can't find an English chest on Facebook marketplace. You can, I mean, if you have time to peruse and wait, do that, but then go to your local, you know, obviously antique stores and antique malls, but I go to a lot of estate sales and I encourage my clients to do that. You know, go with your husband on the weekend, you know, take the kids even, I mean, the state sales are great places to get deals. I mean, I could show you some things you can't even believe. And I mean, we all, you know, as antique dealers, we buy at estate sales and then we put it in our shops and sometimes we can mark it up three and four times because people just want to get rid of their things. So it's, it's so fun. It's so much better than like having just everything look like a showroom. That's just never going to be my style. And I keep my things. And so to me, it's an investment. So investing in good antiques, when you can afford it, just like good art is just something that you're never going to, you know, tire off, you know, you're not going to just throw out that, that brand new white console that everybody else has. It seems like patience is a important skill for every antique collector. Well, it's funny because when you called me, like, you know, I thought, oh my gosh, the ceiling isn't done. You know, I'm a person of like, the ceiling is your fifth wall. Right. And so I quickly whipped up some, something that I was planning on doing, but you know, it's a work in progress. And to me, it's like, when it's done, I would be kind of sad because I don't want it to be finished. Right. You can always start it back over. Right. I want to keep doing it. So I love taking my time. And you know, as an antique dealer and a designer, you're so busy doing other people's faces and I'm so busy getting my shops looking good that I sometimes, you know, your own house, you just, you think, okay, well, I want it to be perfect. And there's so many things out there that we can buy. So I tend to put it on the back burner because I'm just quite not sure yet. So do you never feel antsy or you sort of anxious to try to race to the finish line or do you just try to resist that? No. And I tell clients that, you know, they'll want every wall fill and I'll say, you know, don't you want to go on a trip and find an amazing piece of art together? I don't have to like it. You have to like it. And it's your home. And if you really want, I mean, if it's a condo that's like, you know, they just want it done because they're going to, it's their beach condo. Of course, I'm going to do it all at once. Right. And I have installed 18,000 square foot homes where everything was done. And I mean, they didn't see it until they walked in and it's finished. I don't advise that because, but if, if that's the kind of client you are, I'll do it. But I like things evolving over time. And most of my clients have budgets, you know, when they, I just said, if you want the master bedroom to be really perfect, let's just, let's get the kids situated. Let's get your family room set. You know, they'll say, well, what color are you going to paint the walls? Well, we have to do all of that together. So it takes time, you know, to kind of orchestrate the whole thing. And if they, you know, if they would kind of let me do my thing, I'll find them better pieces if they're patient. Uh-huh. So when you moved in here to this home, did you have a vision for how you wanted every room to look or are you sort of getting ideas along the way for, oh, I, you know what, now that I've lived with this a little bit, I think a wallpaper would be great on the ceiling. Oh, absolutely. Like these draperies here in this room, which I also have an ottoman out of those, and I love it. It's a, it's a fabric that I never thought I would use in this home because I've used it in clients' homes. But the reason I've used it in clients' homes is because I loved it. Yeah. So I thought I was putting a completely different thing in here and I kept thinking, why am I not using this fabric? This is crazy. So I finally just bit the bullet and did it because it really is one of the most beautiful, like pastoral scenes with so many different colors. It brought the blue in. I never saw blue in this room and I have blue and white lamps with my beautiful Valor Design green shades. And you know, I brought blue in, but you really don't see blue in other places other than like on that one wall, but it kind of works, you know? Yeah. You're really more of a green fan. I'm a green fan. Everyone knows it. I know my Instagram, my logo, everything, you know, as James Varmer says, green and white is always right. I mean, it's just. It's out there. It's right outside. It's in nature. And it's, to me, it is a neutral, you know, brown is a neutral white and cream, of course. And green for me as a neutral, so I can put pops of red. I've always kind of, I think I had like one moment where I did like a neutral thing. We lived in Florida for about four years and I did this neutral situation and it was, it was awful. I mean, it was pretty and everybody walked in and thought it was great. And I thought it was terrible. And I never again, I was like, okay, I'm not neutral. I just can't do it. Well, I love the way you've used it throughout the spaces because it's kind of that thought common thread, but then it's not particularly dominant though. Talk to me about how you sort of think about color when you are predominantly working with antiques and old things, even if they're just things you've collected. How does the, where does the color So I always say a lot of designers will do boards, right? Where everything matches and everything's, and I don't do that. I show the clients the fabrics. And I always say like, if you threw everything that I was going to put in that room on the floor and looked at it, you would think, oh, like it may not completely be what you're expecting because it's not all, you know, very cookie cutter. Just all the shades are the same. So when I'm designing color for a room, I always say to the client, you know, what do you see in here? Just if you had to name like your favorite color for this room and if they say green and white, and I'll say, well, great. Are you open to like, you know, I have pops of red and, or do you really just want like a clean, serene green and white? So I kind of get that, but that doesn't mean that I'm not bringing in browns and different textures and maybe some vertigree, you know, on a piece, because when you use old things mixed with new, all the different textures kind of bring all these colors that you're not expecting. So that's why I say like showrooms, you know, are just, they're just showrooms. They're not meant, you're not meant to take a showroom and put it in a home, you know? So do you think, you know, cause I think for, for many of us mixing different wood finishes and just different finishes in general can feel a to one another. So I guess, how do you advise your clients and maybe even think about it for yourself of what things can work together versus what things might sort of, you know, clash? Right. Well, you want like painted pieces mixed with dark wood mixed with, you know, say a woven cocktail table with brass feet, you know, and then you want prints. You know, I always start with one bold print if the client, you know, I definitely do for myself. Like in this room, I knew I could mix some things because it's such, you know, it's a pretty big room, but you would never do like two big bold prints that are the same scale. Okay. You know, so I just, you know, if all the tones are working and it just kind of all comes together in the end. I mean, I really never thought I was going to put coral trim on a blue, green, and white. I mean, that's blue, green, white, and brown, you know, drapery. But because I had the red accents, I thought, you know what, I'm going to put coral trim and it's going to be fine. Yeah. It's not something that probably, you know, someone that learns in design school to do, but to me, it's just warmth and it goes with everything else because to bring a pop of color, you kind of have to do it in a couple of different places. You just can't have one pair of chairs in it, or, you know, you kind of have to do it throughout the room. Right, right, right. You have to repeat it. Repeat it again. Yes. So, okay. First off, I love that little checklist you just made. So we've got, you know, maybe like a dark wood, a painted wood, and then, you know, something woven or maybe it's glass, some other finish that's not wood. Right. And then a bold print. That's a great kind of easy, I suppose, formula for people to try and feel like this is going to work and I can check it off the list. But then I also, you know, you're talking about the color palette and I was curious in here, was the rock the jumping off point? Like, where did kind of that initial color come from? I just, well, to be honest, I had a lot of these pillows and, you know, I was being frugal and I just thought, okay, these pillows are perfectly good. They worked in our Virginia home. I'm just going to start with the colors that I had in our Virginia home that I loved. That was like warmth for my family. Like our family, that was like their biggest thing. They said, mom, we don't want it to look like the Charleston kind of coastal home that we had in Charleston. I was kind of merging two homes. Got it. Because we lived in Virginia and Charleston for a time, both places. So I wanted this to have all those colors. So it all started with really these pillows and then the rug kind of came and then I just wanted the upholstery to be more neutral. Like these pillows here were in our foyer in Virginia, but I love them so much. They're lace field designed. I can't get them again. So I thought I have to bring them and I put them in here. So, you know, I would say something that you see throughout all of my designs and a lot of people don't want to hear this because they hate to polish silver, but is silver. So like silver is a big part of, of what I do in all of my designs. I would say, you know, do you polish silver? I polish it all myself. Yes. Do you have like a routine? I do. So I have it in all of our bedrooms and bathrooms. I have a few pieces in here. You'll and I go around and I collect all of it. And how often would you say you do this? This is the thing. It's not hard. It's like three, maybe four times a year, but you know, it starts to get a little, you know, tarnished and even then it's fine. It's not, but you know, of course I polished it before y'all came. So it's, it's just, you can pick it up anywhere. You can go to Goodwill, you can go to so many places and get it so inexpensively. And it's, you know, I use it for entertaining a ton. Sort of a lost or I guess an underappreciated element these days. People aren't as keen to take their parents' wedding silver or those things. I have so many people, a lot of people that buy from me in my antique shops and they'll say, no, you know, my kids don't want my stuff. And I think how sad that is. You know, luckily my children do. My children are, yes, they really do that. Of course, because I will do their homes for them. So they know that if they don't, they probably aren't going to be getting my things, but yeah, they do. And my daughter, she'll laugh. She'll go, oh gosh, she goes, I should clean the silver before mom gets here, you know? So another thing I use a lot of, which is really good, inexpensive thing for people to do, is just like trays, like not even just a silver tray, but woven trays or wooden trays to kind of catch like the things, like a little tea, you know, a little coffee tea setup or something for like, you know, your toiletries, like in a bathroom. You know, I have one right here on the cocktail table and it just, you know, hold some, you know, some matches and a candle and, you know, some candies. You have them in all finishes, which I love. I do. Yeah, so I mix new and old. I mean, you don't want a house full of fussy stuff. You don't want everything being, you know, looking like your grandmother's house. Not that there's anything wrong with that because, you know, that's where all of these things came from originally, right? Right. But you do want, you know, some current clean line pieces so that, you know, it looks like a good classic, you know, look. Sure. Okay. You, you're talking about your silver and we haven't touched on what a great hostess you are, but I think, you know, you've clearly set up your house for hosting guests. And so I'm curious, what are the essentials when you're setting up a new home to kind of knowing that it's going to work for larger groups? So as you can see in this room, you know, we started with this wonderful bar you see behind you and it's just so accessible for all of our guests. All of them, we have parties, we've got great deep, you know, fridge pullouts. It's got an ice maker, a wine fridge, you know, trash, the whole thing. So it's, it gets utilized in so many different ways. That's why this island works. You know, for parties, we can move the bar stools, we can have a buffet on it. We play games here. We, you know, it's just so great for entertaining. I mean, it truly is. But when people entertain, I tell them, you know, get the silver out. Like that little silver dish that's on this, you know, island back here, it sits there every day. It has, you know, nuts in it or candies or cheese straws or whatever. So, you know, use your stuff. I mean, make it special. It can even be takeout. It doesn't have to be like you slaved in the kitchen all day, you know, but entertaining is just something I've always loved. We have, you know, my husband is a head of school and has been since, oh my gosh, like 25 years. So we have entertained, you know, so many people throughout the years and all that. We've lived on campuses, you know, it's been a really fun life. So that, you know, kind of, it's just been something I've had to do. But my family, my mom was a great hostess. My mother-in-law is a great hostess. We always have had, you know, beautiful things around to, you know, to pass down and use. And it's kind of already passed it to my daughter. She'll call me for a recipe and, you know, just don't be afraid. Like no one cares. Do you think, what's the, is the key just like starting small and then getting comfortable with it and working your way up to larger groups or? I mean, not for me, it has never been just because I come from a very big family. Right. You know, I have a lot of cousins and, you know. So you were, you were, you had big groups. Yeah. I mean, you know, when we were younger and I couldn't afford to have everyone for dinner and pay for all that. I mean, you know, it was different when we were, you know, we first were having children. So everyone brought something, but that didn't mean that I didn't make it all pretty. Right. Because that was what I did. Right. Right. But that also doesn't mean that when we went to someone else's house, you didn't have all those things. It's just, people just want to be invited. You know, my sisters and I always laugh. We're like, you know, you have the people that get invited and the people that invite. Right. And we have just always been people that welcome, you know, people into our house and my husband's the same way and we love it. Yeah. And so, you know, whether it's family or friends, it's just, you know, just a nice, easy, I mean, it can be, you know, the food really doesn't matter. Uh-huh. I mean, it's just. Well, it can be takeout and. Yeah. Or, you know, you've picked up things. I always love what Ina Garten says. She says, make your menu and then cross two things out and get them pre-made from somewhere else. Right. I mean, a lot of times, I mean, I'll go to Costco. I'll make soup, but then I don't have time to make the shrimp salad and I'll go there and get it. And I'll, you know, we laughed about the shrimp, the Costco shrimp salad. How many times are we going to eat this? But I doctor it up with Old Bay. Sometimes I pretend I made it, but I didn't. If you don't know about it, you need to run and get it. It's amazing. But it's also, you know, just letting people pitch in and being a part of it and not caring. I do have one rule though. Like, I really don't like people cleaning up when we're there because I just want them to have fun. And, you know, we have one friend that insists on cleaning up every single time and, and it's, he'll look at me and he'll say, your dishes are holding dishes that are holding dishes. He's like, he's like, there's like three things where this one thing, I kind of tend to overdo it a little bit because, you know, you'll see in my pantry. I mean, I just have many, you know, just little silver pieces and, you know, lots of pretty China. And I want to get back a little bit because you were talking about trays and then I got you off topic. So I'm sorry for that. But, um, I do love how you've styled all of your surfaces. You've got, um, you know, little antique elements, but then you've grouped them together and you just have such a great eye for, I suppose, combining things to make a larger vignette. So walk me through your thought process when you've got an empty space and you're trying to judge it up. Right. Well, a lot of people think, you know, clean is the only way to go. And that like, that's just not who I am. I'm like more is more. I love collections. So when I walk into home, I want to know who lives there. So I'll say to, you know, people wear family photos, like they won't have anything and you know, no family photos out. And I just think that's so strange to me. So I will literally, you know, I will frame photos for my clients. I'll go out and get the pretty frames. So I, but you don't want to put them everywhere. So that to me is like the most important thing to start with, like those kinds of things. And then we like designate areas for that. Okay. Right. But then, you know, as far as accessories go and like planning surfaces, you need to buy some good quality accessories. Don't, I mean, I don't love my clients to go to HomeGoods. Like I can go to HomeGoods, but I don't necessarily want them to go to HomeGoods. Why is that? Well, because they're going to just bring some things that maybe aren't. Like, are they too small? Are they the wrong color? No, it's just, there's a lot of things at HomeGoods aren't great. So, you know, you can find that one or two things. It's like a hitter. You want to find the thing at HomeGoods that looks like it came from the design shop and a lot of what's there. And that's just your art. We don't want them bringing home board art. I mean, it depends on the client and if they really want me to work it in, I will. Are there certain things you like to get at HomeGoods? Oh my gosh. Well, I tell all of my clients to start with bedding in front. In fact, it's so funny. My nieces, they're so cute. They're like, you know, we want your, the way you make a bed. We just love how you make beds. And I told them, I'm like, girls go to HomeGoods, get your mattress pad there, get your comforter there, get your pillows there. You know, you can find quilts there for a great deal. Start there. And then you can add, you know, a custom piece eventually, or some really nice shams from Ballard design. You know, I mean, I've gotten, I start with Ballard a lot. I mean, I have tons of y'all's bedding and it is so well made. The price point is great and it looks custom. I mean, so, I mean, you all do a lot of custom pieces. But I know you have some secrets to making the bed because your shams are perfect and they stand up straight and they're all, you know, extra fluffed and you've got all the layers. So talk to me about like the, maybe the things you don't see that really make the bed. Like, well, I am not like, I don't like using a duvet cover over a comforter to sleep with. Okay. I like that rolled up at the bottom for shell, whether you move it at night or you don't, to me, it never stays nice. So I'm like a layer girl. Like I like, I have the top sheet, you know, over the sheet, then a blanket, then a comforter, then a quilt. Oh, all lying under that. Wow. Okay. That's a lot of layers. It's a lot of layers. I mean, it's very comfy. So we keep the house cold in summer and yeah. Okay. And then the duvet is folded at the end. It's folded at the end. Now, if you want to pull it up, you can, but I just have never had good luck with using a duvet cover in a comforter or, you know, comforter in a duvet cover to sleep with. Right. And then as far as the shams, I always, well, the pillows, the bed pillows, I always have at least two per person. So on a king or queen, you know, yeah. So four pillows on a queen or a king. And then I do always three euros on a king. So either like three with three, one, one with a beautiful pillow, you know, like an accent pillow in the front. And then maybe a big lumbar pillow in between that and the shams. And then often I'll use like, you know, king shams with the euros and then always some kind of a pretty pillow that really isn't considered a bedding pillow, more of a pillow that you would use in a living room that you just find that kind of speaks to you. Because so many people, you know, roll their eyes at all of the pillows on the bed, but you cannot deny that it looks great. I mean, you know, my dad used to always say to my mom, oh my gosh, I'm going to put the, here comes the truck. I'm loading up the pillows every night. You know, it's the same with like turning out all the lights every night. You know, it's the same thing. Every night I go around and turn on every little light in this house. And my husband's like, we can't just turn on any overhead light. We have to have on, you know, 50 little lights. So it takes us about 30 minutes to get ready for bed before we brush our teeth. Yeah. You do have some amazing lighting and there's little glowing moments all throughout the space. What is like the right number of lights? Yeah, lighting is like my pet peeve. I mean, I'm known for walking into restaurants and asking them to dim the lights. It drives my kids crazy. But now they kind of feel the same way. We go into bright places and we're like, okay, we can't eat here. It's too bright. So everyone looks prettier in dim light. So I do a mix of old and new lights. Of course we all want, you know, we need recessed cans. You know, when you have big rooms, you just, everything should be on a dimmer. You know, the led bulbs have kind of driven me crazy over the years. I'm sure every designer, we all talk about it. So we, you know, the lowest, they've gotten better, but they still can be white, you know, like hospital light. So the light bulb makes a big difference. You know, nowadays, I mean, custom lampshades are everything. I mean, the, you know, the pleated shades, the colored shades. It's very often that, you know, I won't really, I mean, I'll get a great lamp and it comes with a white shade, but I know that I just discard it. And, you know, and I'll go and find like, you know, Ballard has those great woven shades that I love. Their cane, I put those in a lot of my client's houses. You know, they're all lined. I mean, you know, these green ones that you see behind you, both of, I would say, you know, two of our bedrooms. You've got lots of shades. I have a lot of shades. I noticed right away. And then woven shades are so good. Like I have some great grass cloth shades kind of in one of our guest rooms here. So, but mixing old and new lamps and putting sconces, if you're doing a new build or you're doing renovating, always, you know, take the light away from above the mirror in a bathroom and put sconces on either side, if you can. And, you know, just go into a room and see where can, like, I added these sconces here in this room and those are old, you know, brass, gorgeous swing arm lamps that most people would put in a library or in a bedroom. And, you know, they've got that great toll shade on them, you know, just that black in this room. I knew, I knew I had to have them. I wasn't sure where they were going to go. And I just think they just fit that space, you know, on either side. So, do you feel like just every dark spot in a room, go in and try to come up with a way to light it or? Yeah. I mean, now they have this little, I mean, I have one over here, one of those little chargeable lights that you can just pop in, you put them outside. I mean, I never, when those first came out, I thought that was a ridiculous, I am not going to have a chargeable lamp. I've bought them now. I mean, I went to my girlfriend's house and she had one and I thought that was the cutest thing. And it just will like, yeah, glow up a little space. Well, they're great for outdoors as well. Yeah. They are. And, you know, the library lights over bookcases, I mean, are they really to light up the bookcase? I mean, kind of, but it's just, they're art lights, but it just, they're such a great look. You know, the unlacquered brass is just so, it's so popular right now. And there's a reason, because it just looks like it was there forever because it's such a pretty finish. Yeah. And so this light behind us, it's a Paul Ferrant lamp and Ainsworth Noah out of Atlanta sells it. And I found it actually, I don't, I guess I found it online and the retail on it was so expensive. So I thought, okay, well I will buy this wholesale. And they told me the price and I still couldn't afford it. I could not justify it. So I went on First Dibs and like every website I could find and I finally found it secondhand. And it was like half the price of wholesale and it still was a lot, but it really like made this space, you know, it's just, but yeah, if anyone would like it, it's Paul Ferrant. You can order it. Okay. We have not talked about the, you know, you were talking about the rechargeable lamps and we haven't talked about the porch yet. So I want to touch on that before we wrap up. So tell me about the porch. You know, we're obviously in Charleston and I know summer's a little dicey. Maybe you're not out there as much, but certainly the rest of the year. What, like, what do you need to make a porch? It's funny, when we bought the house, my husband said, when he said, absolutely this, we're not doing one thing. Like, you know, I hope you're happy with this house. He goes, well, we might just put a, we could put a porch on the back. So we always just talked about this porch that we were going to have. We never talked about the great room at first because we were all going to be happy with the living space that was currently there. And when we got into it and we, we started living here, we realized like we really needed a bigger space. And so when we talked to Bo, we said, you know, we want a porch. And of course you only have so much space that you're allowed to build on in the old village, you know, just like everywhere. So he, you know, we told him we didn't want to see it from the front of the house and we added a fireplace to it. So it jotted it out a little bit. And then when he drew it, I said, Bo, it's kind of tight, like for, with furniture. And he said, well, you didn't want to see it from the front of the house, but he said, let us, let's just take it out two more feet. You'll only see the fireplace. I think it'll be nice. It'll just jut out just to show people like, Oh, there's like a little screen porch back there. So that's kind of how this whole room came to be. And we kind of have double fireplaces. So we have nice backdrop on the porch with the brick wall from the interior fireplace, which was like the perfect backdrop for the sofa. And then I put that big old mirror that's just kind of like a woven mirror. That's just opened up the space because it's not a big porch. Right. But I, I knew what, how we would use the space with the TV over the, you know, the Cypress mantle over the fireplace. And I like, I'll tell clients a lot, do you want the room to be comfortable or do you want it to be spacious? And to me, I always go for comfort. So even though it's a little tight out there with the seating, we can sit, you know, 10 people comfortably, you know, in a room that's not that large. You mentioned asking your clients, whether they want the space to feel spacious or comfortable. Do you think people kind of mistake those two for the same? No, like I'll say to them, you know, in photographing a room, maybe you wouldn't want all of these things in here, but you have to live in the space. So like, you know, normally there's an Ottoman right here, right at our feet. And it's a little, it's a little cluttered, but guess what? Every night when we sit on these chairs, we put our feet up. So if we're having a party, I'll move the Ottoman so that we can move around the space, you know, more, but there are a lot of people that they don't want this much stuff. Right. You know, they don't have parties a lot. They, you know, we, we use our furniture. I mean, our, the biggest thing is to me to have deep sofas, you know, deep chairs that like, you know, a 250 pound man can sit here and not feel like he's, you know, he doesn't want to watch the game for the entire three hours. Right. So I just want the spaces to me. I always go for comfort. And of course you want it to be beautiful, but it's not a showroom. You know, you live there and you want the pieces to reflect that. Well, thank you so much for having us. I just love getting to walk around. You've done a beautiful job using all of these antiques so flawlessly and working with high and low. I know. I really appreciate you coming. It's been great. Well, hopefully our audience will enjoy seeing your space as much as I have. Okay. Thanks so much, Caroline. For more house tours like this one, be sure to subscribe to the Ballard Designs YouTube channel and follow us on social media.