Movie Couple Therapy： ANAKIN and PADMÉ

This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all-in-one platform to build a beautiful website and grow your brand. I'm haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. I am not here to criticize Natalie Portman. You're breaking my heart. I am not here to criticize Hayden Christensen. I don't like sand. I'm not even really here to criticize George Lucas. But the women, and the children too. But on one thing we are both in agreement, this love story blows. It's stupid poop. It's real bad. Many things will change when you reach the Capitoline. You turned her against me! But my caring for you will remain. I care for you too. I don't care if they know we're married. I truly love you. I have a filmmaking note. Oh goody. I have one tweak that would fix this scene. Hello and welcome to Cinema Therapy. I'm Jonathan Decker, licensed therapist who loves movies. This is Hello There. This is the show you're looking for. Worth it. I'm Alan Seawright. I'm a professional filmmaker who needs therapy. Because of this movie. In this corner, representing the prequel haters, Alan J. Seawright. What's your middle name? Jay. In this corner, representing the prequel lovers, Jonathan Decker. We're going to be doing movie couples therapy on Anakin and Padme. I don't like sand. We could debate the virtues and weaknesses of the prequels all day. But on one thing we are both in agreement, this love story blows. It's stupid poop. It's real bad. Real bad and dumb. I, as a couples therapist, am going to be looking at Anakin and Padme, seeing where I might intervene to bring them to a better outcome. And Alan, what are you going to be doing this episode? Making fun of everything and also slowly dying inside. Alright, let's do this. Ever since the kiss you shouldn't have given me. It's how I got him to do the show. I made this for you. Does it count as a meet cute if he's nine years old? So you'd remember me. I carved it out of a... I mean, he's cute. Jake Lloyd's a cute son of a gun. Yeah. It's beautiful. I don't need this to remember you by. Oh. Oof. Many things will change when you reach the capital, Annie. But my caring for you will remain. You can tell by the emotion in my voice. I care for you too. Oh my god. You met two days ago. Who's your mother? Hey. It may have been as much as a week. Who knows? Okay, we're going to talk about this probably a lot because one of the biggest problems with this entire relationship is the dialogue. I think pretty much everybody agrees. Yeah. The dialogue's hot garbage. You're a funny little boy. How do you know so much? A lot of writers would call this first draft dialogue because a lot of times, like, okay, I know where the story needs to go. I know what the characters need to sort of express and feel to get to where I want the story to be. So I'm just going to put in them saying their feelings. Right. Or them expressing exactly what's going on. And then you rewrite that later to make it sound like people because people don't generally just say what they're feeling unless in, like, an extreme circumstance. Right. And I remember being 18 years old when this movie came out. Yep. It's 1999. You're not buying movie tickets online. Nope. I definitely stayed overnight. Sure. The night before, but I was there opening night. I remember getting all the ick with this scene. Yeah. If it had been written like a babysitter little kid clicking because they have fun together. Listen, even if it's little kid has crush on babysitter, but she thinks of him as little kid. Are you an angel? What? An angel. Totally fine. Plausible. Yeah. If Natalie Portman had been my babysitter at nine, I would have had all the crushes on her. But she says... My caring for you will remain. If a 14-year-old girl says that to a 9-year-old boy, keep them apart. Obi-Wan was wise to break them up for about a decade. You could interpret that as sort of babysitter cares for, but it just doesn't really read that way. Yeah. It's just weird. It's badly written and it's badly directed. Hey, have you all seen our cinema therapy website? It was so easy to build and customize our site using Squarespace. Squarespace has tons of professionally designed templates to choose from. So once we found one that worked really well as a starting point for us with intuitive drag and drop editing and awesome designs. It was so easy to customize, you guys. Way easier than winning over a senator who's five years your senior. Squarespace SEO tools will help you to get discovered fast. Faster than Sebulba's Podracer. Every website is optimized to be indexed with an auto-generated site map, meta descriptions, and more. So your site will show up more often on search engines and reach more of your ideal audience or customers. 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We used to lie out on the sand and let the sun dry us. It is really pretty there, though. Sure. And try to guess the names of the birds singing. Why do they have Padme monotone? I don't like sand. Why do they have Anakin monotone? It's coarse and rough and irritating. And it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything is soft. Okay. Stop licking our boobs, dude. He bit his bottom lip! So look. Up until everything is soft and smooth, that was actually kind of cute. I was on board. Now I'm not so much. Well, and this is one of the big things. I get why he's into her. She's a senator. She's accomplished. She's intelligent. She's powerful. He has done nothing but make the creepy stalker stare at her this entire time. And talk about how he dreams about her. And I get that he's handsome. Oh, sure. But she's not 15. She's 24 at this time. Yeah, 24. No. I shouldn't have done that. I'm sorry. And look at his face. Honestly, that is an acting choice I really like. Yeah? His face. Just like the utter confusion of like teen angst. And like not knowing what the hell. Like, what did I do wrong? We were kissing and now we're not. We want more kissy. There's several things you can make a case for. But none of them are in the text of the script. Correct. So, for example, you could lean into, and George Lucas could have done this. That she feels repressed by her whole life she's been a political figure. Her whole life she's had a ton expected of her. And now she feels like throwing caution to the wind and rebelling a little bit. And they're in hiding. It's like a secret, you know, whatever. I can cut loose because no one's ever going to know. But in order for that to work, it has to actually be in the text of the film. Right. Like it can't be subtext that we're making up. Which subtext that we're making up is headcanon. It's not real. Your fan theories aren't real. I'm sorry. Also, a lot of the things that people criticize in the prequels, there are defenses where people will say, but it makes sense and here's why. And that's valid to a point. For example, Hayden Christensen has come out and say, I never understood the criticism. Of course, Anakin hates sand. He grew up on Tatooine. He didn't see all this lush green beauty everywhere. Like he was a slave and sand reminds him of being a slave in the hot sun. Of course, that makes sense. But he's using this as a pickup line. People don't hate it because he's talking about sand. That makes sense for his character. Yes. They hate it because it's a pickup line that works. The ****? Yeah. Keep the dialogue the same. You shouldn't, but if you do keep the dialogue the same and just have the direction change. Yeah. Have Anakin play it a bit more awkward teen where he doesn't really know what he's doing and have Padme play, this kid is so endearing. Yes. He obviously just really has a thing for me and what the hell, no one's going to know. Yes. Let's throw caution to the wind. He's beautiful and he's obsessed with me. There's a feeling there that is great. That's valid. Yeah. That's a thing you can play. I am not here to criticize Natalie Portman. I am not here to criticize Hayden Christensen. Frankly, I'm not even really here to criticize George Lucas. I'm going to be saying a lot of things that I would have done differently as a director. I also didn't make Star Wars, so take every criticism I have with a grain of salt the size of a freaking planet. Don't worry, there is a salt planet in Star Wars. Salt. We've kind of dumped on this a lot. What can we pull out of this? Is there something we can learn? Is there something we can help them with? What can we do? I'm not doing couples therapy with them yet because they're not a couple, but if I had Anakin in my office, I would be talking to him about, okay, Anakin, let's explore why you're doing this, right? You met Padme when you were nine, and you were just leaving your mother, and you latched on to the next warm, maternal female figure in your life. I mean, that's classic Freudian stuff, and for the first time ever, Freud was right. It is about your mother. Oh, dear. I've just been a little bit sick in my mouth. So Anakin's holding on to Padme as his primary connection because, frankly, he could have had a secure attachment with Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan was immature as a mentor and doesn't really get around to being what Anakin needs as a mentor and as someone to connect with until about midway through the Clone Wars. If you watch the animated series, that's when they really start to click. And so I would be talking to Anakin about forming secure attachments with himself and with others in his life and not holding on to Padme as a life preserver because he is literally doing the brain-isn't-fully-developed-teenager thing, which is, I know there are risks, I know what the risks are, and I don't care. With Padme, I would get her in my office, I'd be like, Padme, help me see it. Help me understand what you're thinking because I don't get it. What's with the self-destructive behavior? Yeah, honestly, yeah. Like, you've worked your whole life to put yourself in a position of influence where you can do good in the galaxy. Is it just chemistry? Is it just the draw? Or is there something else? Are you trying to rebel? Are you trying to carve something out for yourself? It isn't chemistry. And is there a way that you can do that that is, I know, but ostensibly? Sure, sure, sure, yeah. Is there a way that you can do that that is going to be healthy and supportive for you? Okay. Now, they've shared a kiss, they're exploring the possibility of a relationship together. Okay. I would actually have them just sit and break down the pros and the cons and the logic of the decision to make it or not to make it. Okay. And they arrive at the place they would arrive at in that therapy session. This is a bad idea for all the things that we're working for in our lives, for all the people who are depending on us. This is not a good fit for our lives right now. The follow-up question I would ask is, well, what do you really want? It is true that you would have to sacrifice your current positions to have a life together. But you can make that decision. It just needs to be a conscious choice. What's wrong, Annie? I killed them. I killed them all. So this is about where she should be inching towards the door. They're dead. She should be... Every single one of them. If I was directing this scene, she would be inching backwards towards the door. But the women. And the children, too. Yep, cut to her, but it would not be that face. They're like animals. And I slaughtered them like animals. A face of mild concern? And Hayden Christensen doing great work there. But what makes this scene work is cut to her, and she's really struggling. But she's not. What would make the scene work. Yeah, sorry. To be angry is to be human. I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this. And I feel like, and this might be a reach, but I feel like George really wanted to portray her as this, like, idealized female instead of as a person. So she's just unfailingly understanding and compassionate and empathetic. Yeah. And that actually betrays her as a character. 100%. Because I'm going to defend the prequels a little bit here. I feel like once Revenge of the Sith happened, a lot of things that were, to me, questionable in Episode 1 and Episode 2 fell into place as puzzle pieces. Like, oh, this is where this was headed. This is why this was here. And it feels like it flows better. You add the Clone Wars series, and we get a lot more of the heroic dashing Anakin that we always wanted to have. Yeah, the Clone Wars series is what the prequels should have been. Yes, right? No, absolutely. So a lot of it is kind of, like, retroactively patched up, and then it works. But it's always bothered me that he confesses to murdering men, women, and children. Yeah. And she's more concerned about him at the moment than her own safety, or as a representative of justice and peace in the galaxy. All those corpses back there. I have to bring this guy to justice now. Yeah! Like, this is now my job. Yeah! But no, I'm just going to comfort this murderer. Generally, we stay in our lanes. You talk about the filmmaking. Sure. I talk about the therapy. Okay. I have a filmmaking note. Oh, goody! Or a screenwriting note, rather. I have one tweak that would fix this scene. Just one? Just one. He doesn't tell her that he killed them all. He did it. He knows he did it. But he also knows she would be terrified, and he would lose her if he told her. So he lies about it. So he lies about it, and he keeps it a secret from her. Now, Padme is not somebody who stays with a murderer, and he is desperate to keep this secret from her. Oh, I like this a lot. Yeah! That would be so much better. Because he's scared of the darkness within himself. What does this mean about me? Padme can never find out. Dude, and then for the rest of this film and the next film, you have him occasionally succumbing to the dark side and then lying to her about it. Yeah. And then her big blowup at the end is because she has found out about all the things he's done, including murdering a bunch of children. Yeah. It's not like, I want to help you come back. It's, you're irredeemable, and I have to bring you to justice. And he, rage, and that... Holy crap, that makes the... And because he can't bear to look her in the eye, he becomes distant and pulls away. Yeah. Right? And so there's a wedge in their relationship. Like, oh. Okay. Darn it. Well, I mean, the only way to explain it in the current version of the film is that Padme's racist against sand people. Next scene! You're trembling. It's because you're terrified. What's going on? Something wonderful has happened. Yeah, he was there. Annie. I got a coupon for five dollars off a pizza. I'm pregnant, she says. That's... That's wonderful. What are we gonna do? We're not gonna worry about anything right now. Yep. What? This is the happiest moment. The happiest moment of my life. Okay, listen. Avoidance. Ah. Healthy, right? Good? You should do it all the time? No, actually. Turns out, it always bites you in the ass. Huh. They're in my therapy office. They're like, okay. Jonathan, you keep our confidentiality. She's pregnant. And it's all about to come crumbling down this entire house of cards. What do we do? Just keep it a secret. They won't find out she's pregnant. Yeah, I was gonna say. This is about the time. Like, I know you put it off for a long time. Had a secret marriage and stuff. She's gonna start showing, and it's gonna be awkward. Because either Padme's gonna have to accuse people of calling her fat, or she's gonna have to own that she's got some buns in the oven. And so, listen. It's time. Yeah. It's time to go before the council. It's time to go before the Senate. And I don't even know that they need to decide your fate. Like, they can choose what they're gonna do when it comes to, are you still in the Senate? Are you still in the Jedi Council? But you two get to decide on what your life is gonna be. Yeah. So let's stop avoiding. Because you're in this position because for three freaking years during the Clone Wars, you just kept kicking the can down the road of we'll deal with it later, we'll deal with it later, we have love, it's gonna be fine. And that is Anakin's youthful naivety. And Padme's inexplicable poor writing. Again, I don't get why Padme, who's always portrayed as this rational, logical, decisive character. Smart character. You could say, well, she's smart in every area, but love and that is accurate to some people in real life. Fine. But make me believe it. Yeah, I don't buy it. I don't see that anywhere. We'll get through this. I mean, she won't. Oh my gosh! Oh no. Come away with me. But he's not at this point. I know this isn't, I mean, this is still partially an Anakin episode. So we talked about this in our Anakin episode. We don't have to run away anymore. He's not doing this for her anymore. That's just the lie he's telling himself to justify everything. This is now just blood, love, power. And power. I can overthrow him. And together you and I can rule the galaxy. Make things the way we want them to be. Again, it's power. I don't believe what I'm hearing. Which could be a really compelling story. Yeah. It's just, there's no building blocks towards it. Listen, when I watch the prequels, because I'm a prequel defender, and I'm also somebody like you who admires the story that's being told. Here's the thing. We basically agree on what the strengths and weaknesses are. We just weight them differently. Yes. Because I think I'm more willing than you are to meet George halfway. And I'm a horrible cynic. Also, John Williams is really doing his best here. And he does. Because of what you've done. What you planned to do. Finally, we get some emoting. I'll come back. I love you. Liar! Where was this Padme the entire series? No! You're with him! You brought him here to kill me! No! Let her go, Anakin. So remember how you're doing all this to protect her? Let her go. This isn't protecting her. And this is hard in therapy because it's like there are lines that when they're crossed they're crossed for good. And physical assault is one of them. You turned her against me! You have done that yourself! Oh, now I just want to watch this movie. I know he doesn't. At least one of us. I want to watch it too. Brad and I are gonna watch it. Okay. Woo! Yippee! I'm gonna talk about therapy in two sections. One is before he chokes her out without her consent. Because with her consent that's something else entirely. That's a different thing. Yes. But he chokes her out without her consent. He chokes her out in a violent, vicious, abusive, nasty way. Correct. Before he crosses that line it's time to sit them down and say, okay, listen. Anakin, you need to come clean because who you've been showing yourself to be around Padme is not who you've been. That's right. And this is where Anakin's justifications fall to the floor because he could come to me as a therapist and say here's why I did this, here's why I did that, here's why this decision was justified and he has it in his mind. It all makes sense. But he knows it's wrong because he hasn't told her. He knows it's wrong because he's kept it from her. He hasn't kept her as his wife in the loop on these major life decisions. Oh, honey, I'm going to join the dark side. He talks about that he's scared of losing her but he doesn't tell her what's going on with Palpatine. He doesn't tell her all his confusion. And look, you don't have to talk about every single little ticky-tack thing as a married or partnered couple. They're married. They got married. Yeah, they did get married. That's right. Because he has his robot hand at the marriage. It was a scene that happened. And you don't have to talk about every little ticky-tack thing but I'm turning to the dark side as maybe a decision you want to make together. Yeah. Well, and that's the issue is throughout the film we see him have conversations with her about what's going on with him but he always only shares about a third. Yeah. Just enough to like kind of get some sympathy and maybe some of her thoughts but there's too much shame there to really come clean. And I don't know why because you already told her that you're a genocidal maniac and she's stuck with you. Yeah, dude. I don't like after that I don't know what she's going to leave you over. Because there's another read there's another read on this whole situation that absolutely demolishes Padme as a character but that read is that he is a genocidal maniac and she's into it. I mean, honestly that is a read you can take from that scene. I would say Anakin, it's time to tell Padme everything. In fact, the time to tell her everything was this entire time. But since you're in my office here on Coruscant let's do this. With Padme I would be saying the same thing to her that I would have said from the beginning which is him? You sure? It doesn't feel like he wants a partner. It feels like he wants either a cheerleader or a mother. Yeah. He's looking for someone to tell him it's all okay and I'm going to take care of you no matter what you do you piece of ----. No, now you're bringing your mom into it. Sorry, that's my mom. Yeah. We can't use that. She watches this show every week. She really really doesn't guys. Trigger warning we're going to talk a little bit about domestic abuse here. I do believe that what I have to say will be helpful but just know that's what we're going to touch on. If it is triggering for you skip to time code. Once he actually harms her physically it's time to get out. Yeah, now it's just a question of like exit strategy, right? I have people in my office and they want to stay together and it's always such an uphill climb because I can't consent to that or endorse that but at the same time I can't tell people don't do it. What I often do is I get the partner who was abused just solo for a little bit and I say you realize you're probably signing on for more of this. Statistically. Now that this boundary's been crossed and a lot of times in couples where there has been physical abuse and they do end up together and it's healthy there is a separation. For safety and for the person who got physical to be like oh wow I done f***ed up. Yeah, I need to be in a place because I care more about their safety than oh I can't bear to be without you I can't bear to be alone please give me another chance. An actual repair situation like that isn't please stay I'll never do it again. It's I am so sorry that I did that to you. I feel like a monster and I need to keep you safe from me while I get myself sorted out. That's what that looks like. And that's the therapy that I would do. But instead she dies of a broken heart. Ooba. Oob. Listen. Ooba. The Star Wars universe is such a weird thing for me because I have such strong feelings about it and at this point more than half of the films I don't actually like. Yeah. And this relationship in particular for a long time was the absolute nadir of things that I didn't like about Star Wars. But thank you Rise of Skywalker you found a new low. Somehow Palpatine returned. But that being said the ideas that are in this relationship are really interesting Yeah. And it does give us a good opportunity to have the discussion that we've just had which is great. Yeah. So what advice would you give this couple overall? Overall I'd say feelings are feelings attraction is attraction like these things happen. You either A don't have to act on it or B if you choose to act on it like figure it out. Be open with each other like explain your feelings explain your points of view on what these things are going to mean for you and your life and then make a decision together about how you want to proceed. Are the costs worth the benefits? Right. And I don't think characters always need to make the right decisions. That's where drama comes from. Correct. And so I get the whole we're drawn to each other we can't resist it we know we should we've laid out all the pros and cons and all the dangers and then we just give in and now it's a secret and we don't want to get caught and like there's drama to be mined there but at the same time in real life it's going to be a disaster and to George Lucas's credit that's the message that he was sending with this relationship. It's not supposed to be a healthy relationship. Right, no it's supposed to be a disaster. Good job. So what would I say? Any relationship needs to be heart and smart. It's not just what you feel for each other it's the strategy and the logic and the balance of do we want the same things can we make this work and what will the cost be and then making an educated informed decision. John Van Eppen in his book How to Avoid Falling in Love with a Jerk says follow your heart without losing your mind and that's the advice that I would give this couple and anyone watching this today. Plus heart and smart rhymes so you know it's true. Yes. So until next time. It's over Anakin I have the high ground morally speaking. You underestimate my power. And watch movies. Shout out and thank you to our folks who get really beefy extended director's cuts. This one was a beast. So beefy. So oh gosh folks like Emily Patrick Ryan Hansen Dan Mitchell April Peacock and Web 780 your favorite web design studio. Happy Star Wars day and may the fourth be with you. Please don't look at me like that. I'm not. It makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm sorry I'm a lady.