Copy of Age gaps in romance | Studio 2 from WHYY | 04/15/26

Live from the Ken and Valerie Baker Studio at WHYY, this is Studio 2. On a Wednesday, April 15th, welcome, welcome, welcome, friends, on Into the Program, I'm Cherry Gregg. And I'm Kevin McCrory, in for Avi Wolfman-Erett. Now, Cherry, the genesis for this show started back in February. I saw an ad at a bus stop for this male grooming company, shows an older guy with gray hair and a younger woman with red lipstick, and the ad says, you're 60, she's 30, we'll take care of the gap. And then I put in our Slack, our next dating show, The Taboo of Relationships Across Generations. And I was on it. I was like, let's do it. Yeah, you got a little twinkle in your eye when we talked about it, but it did kick off this spirited conversation on our staff, should we do this show? How should we do this show? We ultimately decided, let's lean into it. There's a taboo, but that's what this show is about sometimes. Lean into the taboo, give people a place to have a conversation. That's grounded in facts and experts, et cetera. Yeah, and so that's what we're going to do today. We're going to talk about age gap relationships. And there's a lot to talk about here when I was preparing for the show. I mean, there's so many feelings about it. So many feelings. I think it's going to be a great conversation. Really looking forward to this one. We have an expert from Kinsey, and we also later in the show have an age gap couple who's going to kind of give us the firsthand experience of the challenges, the perceptions, how they deal with it, how they navigate it. So that's always fun when we can get somebody who's directly impacted on these topics. Absolutely. And we'd love to hear from you because you might be directly impacted as well. And our questions of the day are, how do you feel about age gaps in romantic relationships? And can a gap between consenting adults be, quote, too big? The number to call is 888-477-9499. The email is Studio2 at WHBroadway.org. And for our YouTube and Facebook streamers, you can put your comments in the chat. I'm sure people have stories. That's true. First, though, our trio of local news stories. Yes. Starting off with LNI Records signaling that there were waived or canceled inspections. They are raising a lot of questions regarding that partial collapse of a Grey's Ferry parking lot that killed three workers on April 8th. NBC10 investigators review public records tied to the commercial building permit for that project, and they report finding evidence that 58 inspections were scheduled between October 23rd of last year and this past March 16th. And more than half of those inspections were either canceled or waived. And it's unclear exactly why or that happened. And the types of inspections, they vary from initial site inspections to foundation wall inspections and foundation footing inspections, to name a few. And according to NBC10, it's unclear whether the city's licenses and inspections actually did the inspections or whether they had a special inspector who was hired for the project. But this is raising a lot, a lot of questions. And experts, they told NBC that canceled or waived inspections, they are not a common thing. Right. So that raised some red flags for the expert that they talked to in the story, who I believe was a Drexel engineer professor. And so, you know, the city is going to do this investigation and we have lots of questions into why this happened, who's at fault, potentially, are there going to be criminal charges? And, you know, sadly, three people died in this situation and it does harken back, and we were talking this morning to the 2013 collapse of a building on Market Street where people inside a Salvation Army next to a demolition site were ultimately killed, seven people were killed in that tragedy. And ultimately, two people were held responsible there. And there was an LNI person who, you know, took his own life because he felt responsible. And it's raised all these questions about LNI again. There were all those reforms after 2013. But is that department in the state that it should be? There was a 2025 audit from the comptroller's office in the city who basically flagged all these problems in LNI, calling for reforms. You've had advocates saying there needs to be more inspectors out there to do all the work that needs to get done. So hopefully, the city is going to take this really seriously, do the inspection, and come up with some sort of plan to follow through and make sure that stuff like this doesn't happen again. And to be clear, LNI has not responded to requests for comments. So we don't even have their point of view at this point. And Mayor Sherrell Parker has said that the city is committed to getting to the bottom of what caused this collapse. And, you know, I'll point out one more thing before we move on. I mean, a lot of these inspections were specifically tied to some of the issues that people, they're not sure exactly what happened, but this was supposed to be cast concrete, precast concrete. You're not supposed to even pour the concrete until some of these inspections happened. And it's unclear whether that took place. So, I mean, there are going to be a lot of questions for a while. And people are going to be watching the outcome of this investigation. Story number two, good news for Delaware County. The new owners of the Crozier Chester Hospital say primary care services are expected to return within nine months. OK, so the back story here, you might remember the hospital in Upland closed last year after the owner, Prospect Holdings, declared bankruptcy that left the county without its biggest hospital. And then a new for-profit group called Chariot Equities bought the site in January and they put together this town hall last night for residents to ask questions. Chester Mayor Stephan Roots was there and emphasized how much of a hole the closure has left in the community. He also acknowledged that Chariot Equities has a hard road ahead. It is empty. There's not a bed or a bed sheet, there's not an oven, there's not a computer, there's not an x-ray machine. The place is empty. So this new primary care service that they expect to get in the next nine months is the short term fix that's being done in partnership with the Independence Blue Cross Foundation, who's kicking in money to make this thing happen on a faster timeline. And then larger plans to reopen the facility are expected to take two to three years. They need to find some sort of health care operator partner and we'll see where it goes from there. Community members, I think, are cautiously optimistic. They feel like they've been burned before and they're hopeful that this works out, but they're not sure. And then you have all the people who lost their jobs when the hospital closed last year. Twenty six hundred people hoping maybe there's a path for them back to employment. Yeah, I mean, the thing about it is when you fire everybody, when you shut down, when you sell off all the equipment and you go away, even if you don't go away for a whole year, you can't just come back and pick up where you left off, you know, because I mean, there was disruption, you know, you lost trust with community, you lost trust with the people who have worked there. Right. They're not even sure if they can trust this new entity. And so, you know, and they have to build this thing basically from scratch. And I think, you know, but but primary care is a major need. This region needs, you know, emergency services. They need primary care services. So hopefully they can fill that gap and hopefully rebuild the community trust. Yeah. All right. Story number three. Yeah. A Philadelphia restaurant is getting national buzz as the best spot in America for free bread. The Atlantic has named the Cranberry Walnut Loaf at Park, which is a Stevenstar restaurant located in Rittenhouse Square as the best free restaurant bread in the country. Now, writer Katie Weaver has said the bread has, quote, an everlasting gobstopperish ability, gobstopperish ability, OK, to harmoniously harmoniously convey the sensation of eating an entire meal with dessert in every bite. So it's like meal and dessert at the same time. Now, I've never had this bread. So full disclosure, I've had the bread either. I haven't had it. But I, like many others, said, hold up. Wait a minute. What about the brown bread at Cheesecake Factory? What about those Cheddar Bay Biscuits at Red Lobster? And apparently Katie, heard from about 555 people, traveled 13,000 miles and did consider those other breads. And so it made me wonder, like, what makes a good restaurant bread? Because most restaurant breads are just meh. Yeah. And those are corporate breads that you just mentioned. Yeah. Cheesecake Factory. But it's delicious. But pause, pause, pause, Kevin McCrory. Cheesecake Factory bread is delicious. Now, we were talking earlier, I don't like cheesecakes. I've never been to the Cheesecake Factory because I didn't know you could get anything else in there but cheesecake. You got to go because that brown bread and it has a little like, I don't know, some kind of nutty sprinkles on the top. It's delicious. Yeah. And, you know, our waiter, we looked eye to eye and I was like, keep that brown bread coming. But but I mean, this must be delicious because number two was Lay Diplomat, also owned by Stephen Starr in D.C. and apparently it's the same bread. He's got breads going this way and breads going that way. Apparently it's the same bread. So. But you got to love the free bread. Yeah. You get to a restaurant, you sit down. If you don't get that something free on the table, you kind of feel like you're getting ripped off a little. I do. And I believe it's all about chi. It's all about energy. Yeah. Give me some of that. Give me some free stuff and then I'll buy more stuff. Yeah. You know, it's the energy. The chi I'll shout out. And I like this as a little hack for like I'm a dad of four. So I'm going to roll out with my four kids. I'm going to go to the five guys, get a big thing of French fries. And they love getting the free peanuts. Oh, they dig into the free peanuts. They're all more about the peanuts than the French fries. They're just cracking into them. They're eating them. Now, that's a good that's a good chi right there. Yeah, that's good. But I do think that every restaurant should give you something free more than water. You know what I mean? Like whether it be chips and sauce. I think our producer, Debbie Builder, said if she goes to a Mexican or some kind of, you know, Latin food and they don't give her free chips and salsa, she's upset. I got to shout out the Korean restaurants, too, because they always give you those little like kimchi dishes. Oh, and like that little cucumber stuff going on. I like it. Like that's high quality, like free stuff on the table. I love it. Something else, high quality age gap relationships. We're going to be talking about that on the other side of this break. Give us a call at 888-477-9499. How do you feel about age gaps in romantic relationships? We'll be right back. And when I say it right back, literally right back now, because it's the WHYY spring membership campaign, Sherry Gregg, where we're here asking proudly for your support for shows like Studio Two, for WHYY. We're talking about stuff for free. The public media is not free. You can get it for free. Yeah, it's all built on the backs of people who pledged over the years to become members of this station, to support it and get this engine going so that we can keep making high quality programs like Studio Two and everything else you rely upon here at WHYY. So if you're a fan of Studio Two, make a donation now at WHYY.org slash radio. Show your support for the amazing team that we get to work with every day to put this show together. Yeah, and I have to say, so in order to keep us on track, we have a goal this hour of 18 gifts. So far we have three. But let me tell you why this is the moment where you should log on to WHYY.org slash radio. Well, we have a $15,000 conditional donation, right? A conditional challenge. I should say challenge. That's a better word from Carol and Mike Levin. And they are no age gap. Yeah, no age gap, apparently. But they are generous WHYY donors. And if we receive 400 contributions today by 630 p.m., WHYY will get to unlock that $15,000 in support of the programming and news on WHYY. And Kevin, you're our executive producer, $15,000. That's a lot of scratch. Of course, of course. And I'm able to see kind of behind the scenes, the budget process, et cetera, here at WHYY. And it's people from our community, about our community, thinking of the best ways we can serve this community. And there's something really special about that in a media landscape where things are so topsy turvy and can be so corporate and so maybe not community focused. That's what WHYY is. And it's amazing to have as a resource this place here in the Philadelphia region that exists to serve the Philadelphia region. Don't take that for granted. Become a member of WHYY. Our membership rolls, Cherry, they've been going up and up and up, which is amazing to see. And that, I think, is because people see the value in public media. They don't want to see it go away. So don't take it for granted. Make a donation right now at WHYY.org slash radio. Yeah, we got a comment from Susan from Northeast Philly who says, happy to be able to help meet Carol and Mike's challenge. Thank you so much, Susan, for your donation. And a lot of people are already members of WHYY, and they typically will log on to WHYY.org slash radio and make an additional gift so we can unlock $15,000. And it can be a gift of any amount made during the course of the day before 630 p.m. And so, you know, this is a moment to help us get to that $15,000. And one of the things we do at Studio 2, we were just at University of Pennsylvania Law School, where we were talking about the history of the U.S. Supreme Court and how it changed, the court has sort of shifted over time. Later this month, we'll be doing a whole debate with the candidates for the third congressional district. Yeah, that's going to happen on Wednesday, April 29th. It's going to be a live Studio 2 that day. You actually can register right now to be in the, you know, in the audience for that event here at WHYY headquarters. You can find that at WHYY.org slash events. That's just one more thing that WHYY does. It's not just about, you know, the radio broadcast and TV broadcast, but it is all these like community driven in-person events trying to bring people together, trying to have serious, smart, but also sometimes fun, civic dialogue. Yeah. Don't take it for granted. It really doesn't exist anywhere else. Think about the show that we do every day, Studio 2. What other channel can you find an hour of programming that's directly trying to engage the people in this region in a conversation, welcoming viewpoints from all sides, all stripes, et cetera, to have a conversation about the real stuff that we need to talk about? Yeah, absolutely. And so if this is something that you value, if this is something that you want to continue, be a part of the folks that make sure that it is available and strong for the next generation by logging on to WHYY.org slash radio. And I mean, people, this is we're talking about age gap relationships today on the show, but this is a we talk about culture. We talk about politics. We talk about history. We talk about the economy. We talk about so many things on this show. And through all of WHYY, we are in person, we're online, we're on social media, we're everywhere. Right. And I think part of that is like we don't think down on our audience. Like yesterday, we're talking about the most important big national international news stories. And we think, you know, people are going to be there and want to listen to that and be engaged in that. And today we're talking about age gap and it might seem kind of frivolous. But no, we think there's something interesting there to unpack. And so that's what we love to be able to offer each and every day. And we're hoping that you recognize that, support that, make a pledge right now at WHYY.org slash radio. All right, and welcome back to Studio Two. Putting that other hat on right here on WHYY in Philadelphia. I'm Cherry Gregg. And I'm Kevin McCrory. Age gaps in relationships. They're taboo. They're often a spectacle. And they're the subject of a recent Netflix reality show called Age of Attraction. Here, you'll be dating and even committing without ever knowing how old your partner is. Are you ready? Yeah. I don't know if these guys are my grandpa's age. But you don't know who the Spice Girls are? I couldn't name one. Best three minute date I've ever had. I'm not going to lie. I like the mom part. You do? Do you have mommy issues? If you're not as hot as my mom, I'm not going to marry you. All that's left is revealing your age. On average, couples in the U.S. are about four years apart in age. Bigger gaps come with plenty of assumptions from creepy older guys to cougars and gold diggers. And while reality TV plays up the drama, many real life age gap couples say they're happy, they're in love and see nothing but a number. We're talking about how we judge age gaps in romance today and how they impact couples and how public perception has changed over time. Joining us now is Justin Leigh Miller. He's a senior research fellow at the Kinsey Institute and author and the host of the Sex and Psychology podcast. Justin Leigh Miller, welcome back to Studio 2. Thanks for having me here. And by the way, for you, our listeners, I'm sure you have a story or two to tell. Our question for you today is, how do you feel about age gaps in romantic relationships? And can a gap between consenting adults be, quote, too big? Give us a call at 888-477-9499. You can email Studio 2 at WHYY.org. And if you're on Facebook or YouTube streaming, you can drop a comment in the chat on YouTube. Rich from Bucks County says, the saying is the acceptable age gap is half your age plus 14. I've heard it was half your age plus seven. Yeah, well, Rich has got different rules. I know, apparently. It shows just how much people think about this and might have different standards. So, Justin, let's jump right into the conversation. Yeah, so, Justin, so what is it about, you know, this age gap thing that sort of strikes a nerve with people? Yeah, so age gap relationships have been controversial for a long time. I've actually been studying this topic for the last 20 or so years. And I found that it just makes a lot of people uncomfortable for a number of different reasons. You know, I think people often make certain assumptions, stereotypes about age, and often will assume that age gap relationships could just never work if people are from, for example, totally different generations. So there's that idea that they just might not be able to function or might not be able to relate to one another. But some people also seem to equate age differences with power differentials and assume that there's something inherently exploitative about an age gap relationship. Now, I don't necessarily think that's true based on the research that I've done, but that's part of what the broader perception is that's out there. And something else we're also seeing anecdotally is that younger adults seem to be more uncomfortable with this idea of age gap relationships than people who are a bit older. You know, we see a lot of discourse in the popular media about Gen Z in particular and their discomfort with age gap relationships. I'm curious, like, you know, when there's a taboo, it's often for good reason. Like there's something, I don't know, genetic or sociological that over time we grew some sort of an ick towards, I guess to use the modern parlance. Like maybe you could outline why over the course of many hundreds of years, like there was like this feeling like, oh yeah, there's something there that doesn't look right and we shouldn't accept. Well, you know, actually if you look at this through a historical lens and also a cross-cultural lens, age gap relationships have actually been pretty common, but particularly the dynamic where it's an older male with a younger female. The reverse age gap of an older woman with a younger man has not historically or cross-culturally been very common. And, you know, when I was doing my research on this topic, you know, 20 or so years ago, most of the stigma that was directed at age gap relationships was directed toward older women with younger men specifically. And if you think back to that period in time when, you know, for example, you have people like Madonna who were dating younger men or Demi Moore when she was dating Ashton Kutcher, like anytime you had an older female celebrity dating a younger guy, it was this big tabloid sensation. And so there was something about that dynamic that made people really uncomfortable. But if you flash forward to today, people seem to be much more comfortable with the idea of an older woman with a younger man, but not so much with an older man with a younger woman. So I think there's actually been a more recent shift in terms of how we're thinking about age gap relationships. And I think this could be tied to the Me Too movement and broader discussions about power and consent and exploitation in relationships. And something there has shifted the narrative. So interesting. MJ says, as long as it's legal, there is full consent and it's not being used as a power leverage for manipulation, it's all good. And so is it the number itself that matters most, Justin, or is it really about life stage, power dependence? Like, what are we talking about when we say, you know, age gap? Because I mean, five years, not that bad, right? But I mean, how big does a gap have to get before people start feeling like this discomfort you talked about? So this is where it gets really interesting because it's not necessarily always about the actual ages of the partners involved. It's also about the perceived age, right? So you can have two partners who are pretty close in age, but one just happens to look quite a bit older than the other, and they're going to encounter the same type of stigma as somebody who's in an actual age gap relationship, right? And sometimes, you know, you might have an older partner with a younger partner, and they actually look pretty similar in age, but people don't become uncomfortable with it till they learn about the actual age discrepancy, right? So there's something about, you know, when we learn or perceive that there's a big age difference between people that it just makes them uncomfortable. And like I said, there can be a lot of different factors involved there. I don't think these relationships are inherently exploitative. Certainly you can have exploitative age gap relationships, but for the most part, in terms of the couples, the people that I've studied, these are happy, healthy relationships and are not encountering, you know, the same sorts of problems that people assume they are. All right, Justin. So I've got two daughters, right? They're young, but let's fast forward 10, 20 years into the future. One of them shows up to, you know, the barbecue with a guy who's 15 years older. My natural instinct is going to be, I don't like this guy. And you're telling me that I shouldn't have that perception. Convince me. Okay. So different people are going to have different reactions to this. And I totally get it. Like I understand why age gaps make people uncomfortable, but I also understand that these are relationships where people, we can't always predict who we're going to fall in love with and which relationships are going to work out for us. And people might find different value in having an age gap relationship, right? So for some people, that dynamic really works for them, where the partners are bringing different things to the relationship, right? So an older partner, younger partner dynamic, the younger partner might be bringing some youth and vitality to the relationship that makes just for a more dynamic lifestyle. And so, and the older partner might be bringing stability and security. And, you know, sometimes people are attracted to older partners because they find people their own age to be too immature, right? And so having somebody who has figured out what they want in life, what they know, that they desire can be something that people find very sexy and attractive. Oh, interesting. And our question of the day for you, our listeners, is this. How do you feel about age gaps in romantic relationships? Can a gap between consenting adults be too big? The number to call is 888-477-9499. The email is studio2 at whyy.org. And on YouTube and Facebook, if you're streaming, you can drop your comments in the chat. Kent on Facebook says, I married my wife when I was 38 and she was 25. Put her in my own home immediately. She works as a high school teacher because she wants to. I gave her the option of being a homemaker. 22 and a half years later, two beautiful children, thriving spiritually and financially, and no extra marital affairs. We remained happily married. Congratulations to you, Kent. And so, you know, I wonder, Justin, is an age gap just one of many factors that, you know, I mean, age is just one of many factors that people have to consider when deciding who their partner is. Because I think about, you know, other gaps, like education gap. One partner can have way more education than the other. One partner can have different lived experiences. I mean, is it just one thing or does this difference, does it somehow, is it somehow bigger, that difference, a bigger difference than other differences that couples may have? I mean, it's a bigger difference from the standpoint of how other people are perceiving it, right? For many people who are in age gap relationships, age really isn't anything other than just a number, right? Because sometimes the people just connect mentally, spiritually, emotionally with one another, and the age for them is just kind of irrelevant. So I think it's really just more about the broader social perception. Now, you know, we can talk about research on attraction. And in general, people tend to be attracted to partners who are similar to them. Most people select partners who are similar in terms of age, and who are of the same race, and who are of the same educational and other backgrounds, right? We tend to be drawn to similarity, but at the same time, we also want some differences, right? Somebody who is perfectly similar to us in all ways can make for a boring relationship. Somebody who has some different life experiences can make, you know, a certain element of spiciness in the relationship that makes it a bit more exciting. Can we talk a little bit about, like, where we actually draw the lines here, right? Because, you know, Cherry and I were talking before the show, right? Okay, there's the legal age of 18, but then it's like, but your frontal cortex isn't really mature until you're 24, 25. And does that thinking go into this, right? Because an 18-year-old with a 30-year-old is different than a 25-year-old with a 38-year-old or whatever, right? Like, how does that come into play, Justin? Sure, I mean, I get it. And if you think about somebody like Hugh Hefner and, you know, the many younger women that he dated and was in relationships with over the years, like, that struck people in a lot of ways, you know, made a lot of people uncomfortable. In terms of, you know, where we draw the line or the cutoff, it's entirely subjective. Like, you know, we can't say from, like, a scientific standpoint, like, here is the, you know, maximum acceptable age for an age gap relationship or who is or shouldn't be allowed to be in an age gap relationship. You know, I've seen relationships work where there's a discrepancy of 10 years, but also where there's a discrepancy of 20 or 30 or 40 years, right? You know, different things work for different people. But, you know, when you start getting into where do you draw the line, I don't know, because there just isn't a scientific answer. So you don't buy into the prefrontal lobe full development conversation or theory? Well, in that case, then we've got to shift, like, the definition of adulthood, right? So when can people actually make these consensual decisions, right? So we have an age of consent. But, you know, if we're going to say, well, somebody can't be in an age gap relationship until they reach a certain age, then we're sort of shifting the lines of adulthood there. And so, you know, that has other implications beyond just who they choose for their relationship partner. Yeah, well, let's bring in a caller. We have Diana from Layton on the line. Diana, you're on studio two. What's your question or comment? Hi, my comment is I'm loving this conversation. And my husband is almost seven years younger than I am. It's been a wonderful 25 years. Well, as he says, 90% of the time. But the problem has become retirement issues. Yeah, like, we have a great life. He has a wonderful job, but he only gets one week vacation. And it's like, we can't go anywhere. And by the time he could go somewhere, I want to be, you know, what, four or five years older, and maybe I won't feel like going. Yeah, that I found is the biggest issue, the retirement conflict. Yeah, well, thank you so much. That's Diana from Layton on the line. By the way, how do you feel about age gaps and romantic relationships? And can a gap be between two consenting adults be too big? The number is 888-477-9499. And so what are some of the real world challenges, Justin, because everybody, you know, there's benefits. You know, there's pros, there's cons. Can we talk about some of the pros and cons of age gap relationships? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, every relationship is a mixed bag, where there are going to be some benefits and challenges. In terms of some of the unique challenges of age gap relationships, one of the biggest ones I see consistently is that the partners are sometimes just at very different life stages. And as the caller just mentioned, you know, if you have one partner who is of retirement age, and the other partner who is significantly younger and won't be retiring for several years, that can create some conflict, right? Because the partner who's retired might want to travel the world and take more vacations. And, you know, they might just have different priorities. And if their partner is still actively working and is going to be working for several years, it's hard to maintain this sort of same lifestyle there. So that I do see as one of the biggest challenges. Another one is the issue of health. You know, a lot of age gap couples will bring this issue up where the older partner at some point might start to experience a health decline. And the younger partner still has many more years ahead of them and, you know, very good health. And so health can be another issue. Another one is also sexual desire discrepancies, right? Sometimes the older partner loses desire for sex faster. And so that can lead to issues where they're not always on the same page sexually. You mentioned earlier, you touched on the fact that Gen Z, or like the younger generation, seems especially skeptical of these types of relationships. And, you know, there's been, I think, kind of a past decade, much more of a conversation and understanding about power and power balances and what different groups or people bring to different dynamics. Do you think that Gen Z, to, I guess, put it broadly, is overblowing that? Or what's your thought on how that conversation's happening in the younger generation? I mean, from what I've seen, they just seem to be highly sensitive to this idea of age differences and tend to equate it with exploitation. And Gen Z, you know, from what I've seen, you know, and I don't like to talk about people generationally in terms of like as a monolith, where they all think this. But, you know, in terms of some of the things I've seen younger adults say, even smaller age gaps of, you know, four or five years, they consider to be problematic as well, right? And so, you know, just even what an age gap relationship means seems to be viewed very differently by different generations today. And I do think that people often make a bit too much of age gaps, you know, and again, we're assuming this is all between consenting adults here, right? But I think people just often make these assumptions that the older partner has more power, more money, and they're the one calling all the shots and that there's something coercive, abusive, or exploitative about that dynamic. And I think that gets to a bigger question of, well, how do you define power in a relationship? You know, people tend to assume that whoever has more money has more power, but also attractiveness, youth can also be power in a relationship too, right? And people tend to not consider that in the same way or through the same lens. Yeah, let's bring in another caller. We have Michael from Philly on the line. Michael, you're on Studio 2. What's your question or comment? Hi, yeah, I just want to share my experience as the child of parents with a 30-year age gap. And they met through work and I think were attracted to each other because of intellectual similarities. My dad kept himself in really good shape and was very active all the way through his 80s and only kind of declined in his late 80s and 90s when he passed away a couple of years ago. But my comment is really just like, again, as the child of someone in that situation, I'm ashamed to say I was aware and kind of embarrassed of it. But then I also, as I grew older, I also kind of came to accept it. I loved my dad very much, but it was also kind of awkward sometimes. At the grocery store, they'd be like, oh, you're going grocery shopping with grandpa. And he'd have to be like, no, actually, this is my son. So it was just an interesting experience, but I'm very grateful to him for making sure to keep himself healthy and active while I was growing up. Thank you. That's Michael from Philly. We're coming up on a break in about a couple of minutes. And so, Justin, I mean, there are some, you mentioned that there's this big gap, but I mean, you think about it. If two people have a lot in common, right? They're two adventurous people and they have a 20-year gap. I mean, you can have a lot of good years together before someone goes to the health challenges or decline. Do you hear that from couples that folks just sort of focus in on the time that they have together and not really think about what the future could hold, for example? Yeah, I mean, certainly there are discussions about the future in these relationships, but there is often this big emphasis on let's make the most of the time that we have. And we'll cross that bridge later when we come to it. However, some do engage in more active planning, right? Especially if this is something they're planning to be a very long-term relationship, they wanna make sure that each partner is taken care of, right? And I think that that really gets at the core of these relationships because a lot of people assume that it's just this purely transactional thing, but there's love, there's depth, there's emotionality to these relationships. And when you have that care there, there is some thinking about this is how we're gonna plan for the future when these challenges do arise. Yeah, quick follow-up question. Janet says, what's the age gap required for it to be a May-December romance? Does it have to be at least 10? So in our research, we've defined age gap relationships as typically being 10 or more years. And it's still an arbitrary cutoff, but we went with 10 because that's the difference that for most people, regardless of where they are in life, might carry some social meaning where, for example, they might be at different retirement ages or they might be at different stages of life. All right, we'll leave it there and we're gonna take a quick break. Yeah, we'll be back with a couple who has a 26-year.