107 | My firsthand experience Diving the NEW scuba system that is shaking up the dive industry 🤿

Whether you're a scuba diver or not, a big change just happened and it is disrupting the dive industry as we speak. There is a completely new way to scuba dive, like gotta reprogram your brain, and most people are excited to see it. It is forward motion, but of course with any new technology there's gonna be some people upset about it. You probably saw that last interview I did with the inventor of the Avelo system that I did earlier this year. It turns out a lot more people than I thought do not like seeing the game changed. Don't believe me? And you want some entertainment? Go read those comments. So being the most controversial thing that hits scuba diving, I had to try it for myself. Katie and I took the one day specialty course to be a certified Avelo diver so I could bring you an interview fully from my perspective and be able to address all those questions that we saw. You'll see me reading them off on the phone throughout the interview. We're actually gonna show you how it works and even interview some key players in the dive industry that are bringing this to market. Now before I begin, this is no longer a concept. It's out there. It's already at piles of resorts and counting around the world, especially the bigger destinations, and you can go dive it right now. As a bonus, I went to the scuba show just days after doing the class, the dive, and the interview. That's where I got to meet up some other people that might have heard of and ask them some questions as well. Here it is. A lot of people think this just does neutral buoyancy for you. That statement misses the mark I feel like. It does. I wouldn't say that it's doing it for you. It is changing how we're managing it. We're using hydraulics instead of pneumatics or an air bubble. It's a new way of managing it which makes the management a lot less task loading. Adjusting your buoyancy a total of three times during your dive. So you're getting your weighting correct. When your weighting is correct, you're running your pump one time at the surface, picking up about a kilogram or two pounds of weight, gently exhaling, and starting your dive. Like my initial reaction was I got my buoyancy down. I don't know how to think about it. Why do I care about this? And then I started looking at it like, oh, well it is lighter. Oh, I don't even have to carry weights with me. Like, oh, I don't even have a BC bladder. Oh, I'm not dumping. I'm not angling my body. Oh, I don't have all that drag. Next thing you know, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, like two-thirds of the work of diving. Suddenly gone. Even if it's easy, this thing's growing like wildfire. That's why we're here. After all the feedback, I had to get out here and actually take the class and truly go diving in this thing. And that made me want to do more. So here we are. First of all, before we even get into this, the main reason I like this thing right out of the barrel is it eliminates one of the most dangerous parts of scuba diving. The rocketing to the surface, the embolisms, the overexpansion injuries. That's just been taken off the table. A hundred percent. There is no large air bladder that you're managing like you have with a traditional BC in this. So there's no air bubble to manage as you go up or down in the water column. Instead, you're using hydraulics instead of an air bubble. Everybody wants to know how this thing works. The one piece of gear that doesn't change really from what you traditionally see out there is your regulator. This one's using a 300 bar DIN regulator because of the pressures that the hydro tank can achieve. With those higher pressures, you do need a 300 bar regulator rather than an A-clamp or a yoke style regulator, depending on who you ask. So on the diver's left side, you're going to have the pump. On the diver's right is the battery that provides the power. In short, you're pumping water from the ambient environment around you into the hydro tank. You might be wondering what happens to your air then, right? Are you adding water to your air? They're pumping water into the tank. Yep. So down here on the side, there's this hose that's going to run along and it's going to add water into the bottom of the tank. It's going to compress where your air is inside of the cylinder with the bladder that sits inside of it. So your air is actually held in this. So your air is in the bladder in the tank. Yep. And then as you pump water in, the bladder is going to slightly compress, but very evenly and giving you really stable buoyancy. And that is going to help you descend. So you're picking up additional negative buoyancy by adding water into the cylinder. So it works kind of like a submarine. A little bit like submarine. Yeah. So we're using submarine things to do submarine things. What a concept. Cousteau would be proud. The tank, it's pressurized a little higher. It's carbon fiber. Now, even though it does all this stuff, the whole tank system, including that cage on the bottom, is lighter than it is. Much lighter than a traditional system. Yes. Cylinders, but we're just going with tanks for right now because it's easier. Tank, cylinder, bottle, bottle, we'll sail. Take your pick. The hydro tank itself, it's going to be a lot lighter. The system overall weighs about 45 pounds compared to a traditional scuba system that sits at around 65 to 70 pounds, making it a lot more comfortable for divers of all sizes to get back onto boats, to climb ladders, do all those things that are necessity or like you saw on the dive today, it's a bit of a walk from the car down here to the dive site. So all of that gets a little bit easier because you're carrying less weight. It pretty much eliminates weight. Your tank is lighter and your rig, your BC is lighter than a traditional BC. It's basically just a little backplate harness. There's not a whole lot to this. There's no big baggy parts to it. Every single piece that you carry, whether it be your camera, your flashlight, whatever you might stick in your pocket, all of that adds either negative or positive buoyancy to you. With all that extra fabric, a lot of it tends to be buoyant. So that's also why you have to wear that extra weight with traditional gear to offset all that extra buoyancy that you're carrying with you that might not even realize or think about. Way to the class. They have like a nice little calculation chart. You don't have anyone fighting weight because there is no not getting your weight right. You're down to the pound basically. I would say even sometimes a half a pound depending on the diver. As you run the pump, it's like me handing you little teeny tiny fishing weights over the course of one minute. So you can really fine tune your buoyancy and your in-water comfort. Ensure that it's correct for you and for the environment that you're diving in. You don't do this without a weight check initially. For example, if you're diving with your aluminum 80, right? You drop below a thousand psi on that aluminum 80, suddenly it's buoyant because you lost the mass of gas that was contained inside of that cylinder. And that's one advantage here with the hydro tank. You just add water in to offset that lost mass of air that you consumed or gas consumed. So it allows you to add that back in rather than having to carry an additional say three, four pounds of weight to offset that tank later in your dive. Shearwater and ScubaPro have both come out with computers that will give you what's known as a velo mode. One of the things that is a variable with the hydro tanks is you add water in, the pressure is actually going to increase because you're adding water into that tank. A running joke among the velo diver community is that you're making air underwater. You can't add air to a cylinder underwater, but you can increase the pressure because you're adding water into that tank and you're going to see your pressure go up. So one of the things that a velo mode does for you is it's going to show you your gas in a percentage rather than using traditional turn at a thousand psi or whatever that number might be. There is a reprogramming here to use this in the course. That's why you have the course. Yeah, we definitely adjust kind of your way of thinking about a few small things, but overall as a open water diver, you'll be able to hop into the velo system and find yourself right at home in terms of buoyancy, improving your gas management. All of those things will come fairly easily under the guidance of a novello instructor for your rad course. Why are so many divers so resistant to this and so hesitant? Almost to the point of, and I've seen this a lot, anger. Like they see this knowing nothing about it and get upset about it. Why? I think divers are used to the traditions and what their instructor has told them. It harkens back to where we started with diving in double hoses and really dialing in our weight and getting it accurate and depending on those characteristics. So this gets us back to a better form of diving where we're more in tune with our buoyancy, maintaining a more efficient diver overall. I think a lot of divers tend to dislike new things before we give them a chance and learn about what might be positive. I mean, this is the first new thing in scuba that we've seen since you and I became instructors for sure. One of the most common comments I get is just learn buoyancy and it's not an issue. You can walk around DEMA show floor and ask everybody how their buoyancy is and I guarantee you everything going on my buoyancy is perfect. I never have to touch my inflator. I never do anything. I've never bumped into anything. I've never touched the bottom. That's really not true, right? We know that at some point your buoyancy wasn't good. At some point you had to learn that. One of the things that I sometimes do with folks during a rad class, if they're really sure that they never touch their inflator, is I actually take them on what I would call a novello appreciation dive, if you will, and I have them on a slate tally every time they touch their inflator. So every adjustment you make, put a tally down and just see how many times you're actually touching that inflator throughout your dive and making adjustments. It's a lot more than you think. I can attest to that because as soon as we jumped in the first time, I kept reaching for it and I continued to do it for about the first two dives until I finally broke that habit and then I just forgot about it and it's like forgetting about a third of the work. You and I, we have great buoyancy. We do it without thinking. But you just eliminated a third of your activities essentially underwater. Absolutely. And then you have, you know, a third more of your brain to enjoy what's happening around you. And it was really good for a shooting action video. Okay, here's Ross Neal, PADI course director, who for years had up the training at the busiest dive training resort and destination on the planet Rainbow Reef in Key Largo. Been a guest on this show before and actually just jumped on board with Shearwater weeks or even days before this interview. Ross Neal. Because you go where you want, you were talking about getting your shots. Me, I talk about chasing my students. I ask every instructor, hey man, have you ever done that count? You go one, two, three, four, one, two, oh crap. Yeah, guess what? That can't happen. They're like, I'm in. Really good in the case of an emergency. I mean, that's one less thing to manage, right? It's awkward if you're sharing air and you have to have that free hand for an inflator or if you're doing a rescue and you got to figure out where that inflator is. But with the VeloLift, you just are neutrally buoyant the entire time. Okay, a lot of people say, well, there's a lot more fail points. You're just adding fail points. We basically showed you every failure there is for the system. If there's a water leak, if you have a constantly running pump, at any point during that, did you feel like you're out of control? Not even a little. We did an emergency drill as if it failed, both on and off. It almost still felt better than swimming around with a traditional scuba, right? I mean, a runaway inflator, right? You're going to be on a balloon that's going to be rushing towards the surface at, you know, way faster than your maximum ascent rate. With the Avelo system, you can easily overcome that by just gently kicking down. That one actually kind of irritates me because the BC has way more fail points. You've got one, two, three, four, sometimes five dumps. Weighting system, which is a huge, I mean, you've got ditchable weight, you've all kinds of different weight. You've got your trim weights. All that weight, not to mention the drag and the inflator hose, a whole other hose. And the consequence of those fail points is so much higher than if everything fails on this. Absolutely correct. All right, now here's Jason Leggett, CEO of Shearwater Research. When Shearwater got involved in this, just like everything else we do, we make rebreather electronics. So we're very concerned about the safety case and we were absolutely impressed with the safety case that this system's gone through. You did the rad. So you saw all the potential failure modes that they go through, the possibilities, and prove out that actually in many of the failure modes that most recreational divers are going to experience, like a stuck open inflator or a torn BCD, there's far more risk in trying to manage a BC in those failure modes than there is trying to manage an Avelo. Even if you were on a deep wreck and you found yourself, you know, oh, the pump doesn't run for whatever reason. Well, you're already neutrally buoyant. Swim up to your safety stop, do your safety stop, and ascend. It's just not a real concern. Part of why we go over those things in the rad class is to really just prove to that diver, these aren't real emergencies in this system. Yes, if you have a failure, you should make your way towards a safe exit, but it's not a true emergency like you would see with a traditional BC. People are worried about, oh, I have to have a battery on my system. The battery itself, you can fly with it, it just is just under the TSA requirements. As far as it flooding, it's got a double o-ring seal and it's captured. There's the bracket, there's the velcro, and then there's overall just vacuum pressure. As you descend, it's actually that air volume with little bits in there is actually getting compressed also, and so that holds it in tighter with those o-rings. You have batteries on your computers, you have batteries on your GoPros, and you have batteries on your lights. The modern diver is carrying batteries on them all over the place. Is it possible? Sure, I guess it is. Would you have to try to achieve that? Yeah, you would. You'd be working to do that or have missed something on your pre-dive checks or your assembly checks to have that problem, right? And how long does the charge last? During class, we change them every dive because we're using it a lot, but in most divers, they're getting easily two dives out of it, typically only running the pump three times throughout your dive total, so 10-11 pumps is not uncommon to get out of a battery. I've had people say, who cares about weight once you're in the water anyways? If you are carrying excess weight, which a lot of divers are, right? Oh, well, it's fine, I'll just add some air to my BC. You are dramatically impacting yourself by carrying around that extra air bladder because now that BC is expanded, so it's wider, so you're less streamlined, so that's taking up some energy. Well, I think people forget about getting in and out of the water. Even right here, the walk down from the parking lot or if you cart it, but just going down those stairs right there, going on up and down boats, I actually watched someone blow out a knee climbing onto a boat. You can easily injure your knees. Transition between the boat and the water is one of your most hazardous points during the dive, and if you can reduce the weight and make yourself a little bit more nimble, that's a benefit. Okay, a lot of people are worried that because there's a bladder inside the tank, there's one right here, what if that fails at depth? That was a fear for Velo when they first started as well, to a point that they actually deliberately made bladders damaged and dove with them, and it actually didn't impact the dive at all. The air will always displace the water in it. Cost. A lot of people are complaining this thing's too expensive. Diving is a luxury sport. It's expensive as it is. Quick little fact check on the pricing. Now, the pricing has come down dramatically. Still a new product. As more get out there, the price goes down, but I was not able to find anything in the current market that would quite match the sticker price of the Avelo Jetpack Hydro Tank, you know, with all the accessories that it comes with. There are some custom configurations out there we can get pretty close, but in general, even for the high-end stuff like Atomic VC2, Nex, Scuba Pro, Halcyon, backplate and wing setups, or fancy VCs, as well as a steel tank, we're able to get relatively close. That price is coming down, and the price of regular scuba gear has been actually creeping up, but to be fair, it's a newer, fancier system, just like if you get a newer, fancier car. It's going to cost a little more. Now, if you start getting into doubles and rebreathers, of course, you go much more expensive than the Avelo, but recreational, high-end to high-end, regular scuba is going to be a little cheaper. So, just wanted to make sure to keep things as accurate as I can. Back to the show. The major resorts are implementing this. People can get certified on this and go to the resorts at these major destinations. Great Barrier, Hawaii, Key Largo, destination sites. The backplates and the harnesses fit everybody. It'll fit anybody, and as far as portability and travel with the system, once you're trained on it, you don't have to travel with your system. I mean, you could bring your reg and your computer if you want, and you'd be good to go. As they've come to market, you could also travel with just your jet pack and rent the cylinders once you get there. That's something I didn't think about. If you learn on one, you've learned on all. What about tech diving, mixed gases, all that stuff? So, you are able to dive nitrox with this. You need to do a pre-mix. You could put helotrox in it. Right now, Avelo is very staunch on the fact that this is a recreational diving piece of equipment. They're not targeting the technical market. People just want to go enjoy themselves. They want to go have a good dive, and if you can make that easier, why isn't that a good thing? Who doesn't want a more enjoyable dive? I mean, even myself, when I first heard about the system, I kind of thought, you know, okay, you know, it's a new piece of equipment. I'm really good with my buoyancy. I had all of those. I said the same things. I said the same things. Then I dove the system, and I went, and then, you know, about a week after I had done my Avelo instructor and done my rad courses, I went and I did a tech dive, and I had so much stuff all over me, and I was like, man, I missed how streamlined I was. I missed how easy it was. I missed that I had to mess with all of the air bubbles that I suddenly had to manage again. It just suddenly, it's not as enjoyable, right? We're in diving to have fun and to enjoy the environment, not to go work underwater. Yeah, it's a fine line between geeking out with gear and turn it into a job. A lot of divers are equipment managers underwater, and they miss everything that happens around them, and if your equipment can make a dive easier, why not? Yeah, I like removing as many barriers between me and the water as possible, and this seems to do a good job of it. Getting tanks fills, they got to fill a little higher. If they can fill to at least 3,000, which almost any dive shop can, that'll get you plenty of gas to be able to go on a dive with the Avelo system. At 3,000 psi, that'll give you just shy of an aluminum 80. You can fill it all the way to its rated pressure, 4,350, but you don't need to, and most shops aren't going to have compressors that can fill that high. If you get it to a solid 3,000, you're good to go on a dive. Some do. I've seen a few. Some out there, yeah. As far as getting it filled, these cylinders have all the same markings on it that a traditional scuba cylinder does. You'll find a VIP sticker. All the tank data is on there. Rather than around the neck, it's actually on a band on the bottom. Your local shops may have a couple of questions about it. Is DOT approved? There's an ISO number on there, and the ISO rating actually exceeds the requirements of DOT. These are approved for in the United States. They're approved in Europe and in Australia. Let's just say I'm on board with it. I take the RAD course. I'm all about the Avelo system. I want to get my advanced. How does that work if I just want to go take an advanced class somewhere and I'm on the Avelo? So, I can't speak for every agency, but I do know that with NAUI, if you've done your RAD class, you can go with an Avelo instructor, and you can go and do your advanced class using the Avelo system the entire way. You can do rescue in this. Once you've done your basic learning on this system, as long as you have an instructor that's trained on Avelo, you can go out there and complete all your remaining certifications. What about DiveMaster? Even DiveMaster you can complete in this system. They are probably going to require you to show some skills with your traditional BC for DiveMaster. That's what you're mainly going to be leading. That's mainly what you're going to deal with, at least for now. That'll probably change here in the next few years. So, to do the other classes, the instructor does need to be an Avelo instructor. They do need to be an Avelo instructor. You want to make sure that your instructor is familiar with the equipment that you're diving. So, if there's a problem or an issue, they know how to address it. For the most part, when we're out there, besides being easier, I kind of forgot we were in anything different other when I'm like, yeah, I don't have to take my hand off the camera to hit the inflator or dump a little bit. Yeah, I mean, you easily forget how much work you were doing before and, I mean, task loading for a diver is... Task loading is, it's the little things that add up to the big things. Very quickly. You just swim around and have a good time. What about mixing systems with lead divers? Can you have a DiveMaster and an Avelo system and another DiveMaster, like two DiveMasters leading a group, one in regular scuba gear? If you as a RAD diver are out there as an individual, I found that most facilities have no problem with that as long as you, as a diver, are qualified to use that equipment. It's no different than a diver choosing to dive a doubles or in side mount. It's just a different configuration, right? If it is an Avelo dive center, they're going to send you with an Avelo qualified DiveMaster. That way, that individual is completely familiar with it. But if you're out there, there's nothing other than the individual facility not being comfortable with it. That's coming from a place of not knowing or understanding. You're an instructor. You also work for NAOI training department. You're seeing all the different elements of training. What is the hardest part about teaching this when you have students? All of the preconceived notions that people are coming in with. Oh, well, I need this much weight. You know, more than once I've had students insist that I'm underweighting them and they're not going to be comfortable. And it's like, you got to trust me on this. You know what it was for me? Like you said, I had to reprogram. It was like learning to trust a backup camera 15 or 20 years ago. Remember when we started driving? I still wouldn't trust it. I had to look back. I had to look back. I didn't trust it. And then eventually we learned to trust those backup cameras and it got a lot easier. What surprised you when you started teaching? As instructors, we're always on edge waiting for that rapid ascent to occur. And it's so ingrained in our brains that we've got to be, you know, ready to leap on a student and make sure that they don't shoot up. They don't shoot up to the surface, right? And I would argue that is the biggest, just about the biggest risk. It absolutely is. And it took me a while with the Avello system, even though I was trained on it. I knew that that wasn't a possibility, but that little chattering monkey is still in the back of your head that says, what about a free ascent? That's not a real thing with this. So that took some readjustment from me as an instructor to remember that's not a thing. It was hard for me just as a diver to But the most vehemently opposed person to this, and there are a lot, what's the one thing about the system you wish you could just tell them? I think one of the common ones that I hear is if it fails, you're going to be stuck on the bottom. That's just not true because you're weighted correctly. You're neutrally buoyant. It's a manual release of that valve, right? If you want to ascend and become more buoyant, bleed a little water out of the system. But you're never that heavy to begin with. You're perfectly weighted the entire time. If you're deflators, traditional DC, if you have an inflator failure, you're ditching weight to go up. In a rapid ascent, you have all kinds of problems. Describe the moment where your opinion changed. I was out on a deeper dive down to about 120, looking at a rack, and then we started our ascent. I found my hand gravitating towards the inflator. It wasn't there. And kicked up, hit our 15-foot safety stop, held that safety stop perfectly, and then made our ascent to the surface. I ran the pump twice on that entire dive. For me, the conversion was like it's voodoo. It's unreal. It's magic. It was that dive that really locked it in for me on how great this system is and the added safety features of no bladder or no balloon. What is the biggest advantage that you see? One sentence. Reduced weight. Better buoyancy. What's an unexpected advantage? Better consumption rates of your gas. All right, now here's Jennifer Idol, renowned underwater photographer, paddy master, school instructor, trainer, and you may have seen her at some of her public speaking events. And I'm now working in more of a broadcast capacity. I'm working on documentary shorts, and I have a bit of a perfectionist in me. And that's another thing I love about the system is its precision control. I can fine-tune everything to be exactly where I need to be. Think about macro diving and protecting the environment around you and not touching anything while getting the shots you need. She's got a good point. Beyond photography is the major environmental benefit that the Avelo will provide to the newer divers who are still mastering buoyancy. Anybody that's ever been on any tourist destination knows what I'm talking about. Mine was how fast I could swim around. My biggest unexpected advantage was shooting action video going up to different and swirling around people like I do and not having to make any adjustments. That was the really mind-blowing one. But the speed in which you can swim and the freedom in which you swim where you're not getting as tired. What would you like to see improved over the next couple of years with the system? You can be honest, we're not going to air this. I'd love to see Shearwater and Avelo pair up a little bit more. It would be neat to see. Well, just a few days after this interview, his wish was granted. And the first product outside of our dive computer core is the Shearwater Jetpack. That's pretty slick looking. Coming out at DEMA 2025. So this here is a little prototype for your viewers only. A first sneak peek here at Scuba Show and here talking with you right now. Awesome. Yeah. So, you know, that's funny. Cursory reaction is this will never catch on. It's not only caught on, but now Shearwater is already making their own components for it. The Jetpack. Yeah. What do you think is the number one thing that people don't understand about it? How you can have no BC and how you can put water in a tank. Yeah. Or into your hydro tank. All right. Here's Aviad Kahana, the inventor of Avelo. When you jump into the water, water floats you. And when you're ready to dive, you pump water into it and it will flow into the tank. All it is, is a shell containing the tank. The bladder is the actual tank that you dive with. And it's a dynamic tank. We always try and keep moisture out of a tank. If we're pumping water in, well, wouldn't this ruin it? The alloys inside of this are designed to be able to withstand that environment. The tank itself is significantly safer. And they're actually rated for a much higher pressure, well over 10,000 PSI. And the way that they fail is a lot safer too. Fill stations can be unsafe, you know. Absolutely. You've done your hydro test videos and the way that those cylinders fail is generally in a pretty unsafe way, a pretty catastrophic way. The way that the hydro tanks are designed to fail with being a carbon fiber overwrapped pressure vessel is, they are designed to just spread apart and vent the air gently. And they also have a traditional burst disc on the valve. So they spread out and become like a weave basket, Yeah, it'll gently vent the air out. Why the switch side octopus? A couple of reasons. One, it makes swimming a lot easier with your buddy because it puts the reg in the right orientation. The other thing, and here I'll just throw this on real fast, it's easier to show than to describe. With the octo on the side, if I reach down and I deploy it, its orientation is perfect for you to grab it and be able to start breathing. That's nice and sandy. You're gonna do it. I will. I know you will. So that's one reason, but it also sets it up that that person can be directly alongside you as we're swimming. Couldn't any scuba diver do this though? It's just not traditional. They definitely are looking at preconceptions we do in the dive world that maybe aren't a best practice or don't offer us all the benefits. Why not do it a better way? I'm a fan. I saw it in action in the water. I thought that was cool. What's the future of a velo system look like to you? Like where does it peak out? Three years? Five years? Where does this finally find its plateau? And then you can start to imagine, because Shearwater is a tech diving company, the possibilities that opens up for maybe two tanks and side mount doubles and to continue to drive the evolution. But this system delivers so many benefits to every diver that we just believe we could enhance the overall diving experience and that would lead to a growth in this sport, which honestly it desperately needs. It does. I agree with that. That's why I think we're all here. Yeah. It becomes more common, we'll see a velo open water course become a thing. You won't learn on, in all reality, is a dangerous piece of equipment that we are teaching people in now, a traditional BC. We already talked about all those hazards. I think you're going to see that not be a requirement. Just learn straight on a velo system. Is there any situation where the training course could be removed to where you could, within an hour or two, be in the water with this thing? I think that might hold up. I know I understand the why, but I think that's going to be a big barrier. I know some places like aquariums that would love to implement this, but everyone would have to be certified on a velo. Yeah, I think that there's always going to be some measure of classroom or orientation with the piece of equipment, right? There's no way around it. We've got to make sure that all the attorneys out there are happy and you're informed of the risks and how to manage it. But I think there is probably a time when this will become more common and the courses will become shorter. Just like traditional scuba. I mean, we can do a tandem dive without somebody who's trained. I think you'll probably see ratios reduced. So are they looking at maybe a tandem program so you could try it? I haven't heard anything about it yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was on the horizon. I'm going to upvote that idea right here. I mean, if you can sell aviat on it, that'd be your case right there. We're doing it right now. Thinking about it as a resort instructor, you spend most of your time doing what? Chasing people around. Fixing weight. Fixing weight. All of that's easier. Lugging tanks. And your tanks are lighter. So all of those things just get easier. It just requires a little bit of reprogramming. And now that it's here, if you think about how complicated scuba probably was initially, now that it's here and they've done the dirty work, I think people should definitely give it a try. They've challenged all of the norms and just really glad we had the opportunity to hang out and get you guys trained on the system and let you experience it. Yeah. Understand a little bit. Thanks for driving out. We went to a couple of places. We've now done one, two, three, four dives together on it. It was fun. I'm on board. I think Katie liked it even more than me. I was mind blown, but she's obsessed. I couldn't believe what a help it was shooting action videos. Every photographer that I know has loved this from action videos to just shooting some macros. It's just easier to maintain that shot. You're not adjusting stuff. Chris, thanks for taking us out, man. Pleasure. Appreciate it. Beat the storm. Walking around the trade show with that thing on your back. Don't do that in scuba gear. Oh gosh.