videoplaybackMichael B. Jordan nominated for Oscars Best Actor for role in Sinners

There are some people who say that to explain existence, to explain life, to explain that we are, as they would put it rather demeaningly, a bundle of chemicals, somehow makes life not worth living. Why? Why indeed? I don't understand it. No. I mean, it's wonderful even if you can explain it. It's even more wonderful if you could explain it. There's a magic there. Yes. There's a magic to consciousness, introspection, free will. And the fact that you can say that it's done by nerve impulses speeding around the brain doesn't diminish it in any way. No, of course not. It's still wonderful. Of course not. Actually, I think it's more wonderful. I think it is because it's amazing. Yes. I mean, it's magic does it for you. Magic goes its magic, you know. It's amazing that this conscious being, this thinking being that is me and that thinking being that is you is actually produced by millions of nerve impulses whizzing around inside our brain. I mean, that is a magical thought. It's great. We're in each other's dream. Yes. And even if free will is an illusion, it makes no difference. It makes no difference to us. I feel as though I have free will even if I don't. Of course. And, you know, I'd say determinism is sound, but it's when they start making these leaps that then we can't be responsible for our own actions. Well, you've still got to lock someone up if they're going around murdering people to protect the innocent. Yes. If it wasn't me did the murder, then it was my neuro, it was my genes. Yeah, it doesn't work. There's obviously a little bit of that creeping into everything, responsibility, you know, being an adult about things. But yeah, it doesn't change a thing. I feel that I make my own choices, and if I don't, I certainly feel like I'm choosing So, yeah, it's not even worth worrying about. But yeah, it's this thing that takes the art out of something or the humanity or the beauty. Why? Why does it? It's strange. And the way they think it's all too good, it's all too perfect. What do you mean? Why? You haven't seen the process. There's a wonderful thing about Douglas Adams that goes against the intelligent design theory. It's a puddle. Oh, the puddle, yes. It's great, isn't it? Well, you tell the story. Well, it's just that a puddle is pondering, and it says, I must have been designed because I fit this hole perfectly, which is just beautiful. What a beautiful metaphor for trying to explain evolution and everything. It's funny as well, because they move the goalposts. You cannot win an argument with someone who believes in God. Certainly, who believes in an interventionist God. It's impossible. Well, you've won in the sense that you've tried your best, and you think you're right, and they're deluded. But they go away just as strong. Their best argument, ironically, is that it's just faith. Pretty pathetic, maybe, isn't it? Well, it is pathetic, but they mustn't ever engage in logic. It's like top trumps. They mustn't pick logic on their cards. They've got to go faith 100%, and then you go, yeah, sorry, you win. That's the only way they're going to win this, top trumps. They've got to keep away. Some embrace science. Some say God started the Big Bang. He invented the Big Bang, and he let it all happen. It was programmed, but now he's not an interventionist God. Because anyone who follows you on Twitter, and you have a huge following, they'll know that you are a pathological atheist, and therefore the thought of death is very final for you. For me, as a good Irish Catholic boy, it's the start of something new and glorious. For you, that's it. For me, it's the end of something glorious. So I have to pack it all in. You know, I'm not depressed about it. I don't want to die any more than anyone else. And I think there's this strange myth that atheists have nothing to live for. It's the opposite. We have nothing to die for. We have more to live for. We have everything to live for. Yes. I would imagine you have a more focused attention to life, because you think it ends when you die. I think it's precious. I think it's beautiful. I think the world is amazing. I love people, animals, art, every hobby. I can't believe my luck that I'm alive for these 70 or 80 years. Or it might be less. You know, I'm not long for this world. My nan used to say that. She lived till 83. I think it was 40 years ago, and I'm not long for this world. You've said the things you like. What are the things that really annoy you? Only two things really, really make my blood boil, I suppose. I suppose in general, as I get older, injustice. Injustice quietly makes my blood boil. Either personal, social, political, you know, personal. I suppose the two main categories are religious intolerance, this arrogance that you think arguing over whose god is right sort of gets me down a little bit. And I've got no problem with spirituality. I really haven't. That's another myth. And I always try and make the difference clear between spirituality and religion. One is a very personal feeling, a journey, a hope, or whatever, a need, you know, a joy. And the other is an organized body that uses that for power and corruption. In many cases. And, you know, I don't have either. But I suppose I think that when it affects me, that's when I have a say in it. And religion affects me. Religion's very real. Spirituality doesn't really affect me. See, I find it's an irony, isn't it, when the people that attack you on Twitter for challenging them about their religious beliefs, they show this total disrespect to you for what is your belief. Your belief is you're an atheist and you just happen to believe in a deity or a god. I can respect that completely whilst choosing myself to have a different belief. Of course. Of course. You get very intense on Twitter. I mean, you get into proper battles with people. Yeah. Why do you take it so personally? But at home I'm smiling. Are you always? When someone's arguing with me that the Earth is 5,000 years old, yes, I'm smiling. Yeah, of course I'm smiling. You know, the fundamentalist view of the creation of the Earth is rather like an episode of The Flintstones. So I have to laugh at those sort of things. How does your atheism, which you're passionate about, how does that play with your American audience, given that so many people in America are God-fearing people and probably take exception to it? Well, they shouldn't. We talked about this last time. Why should they take offense that I don't believe in their god or any other god? I'd say to them, tell me the reasons why you don't believe in all the other gods, and that's the reason I don't believe in yours. And I've got nothing against people believing in God at all. In fact, if it did make you a kinder person, if you only did good things in his name, then great. But there's the rub. It's when I see some of these religious fundamentalists saying that they've told their five-year-old children that if they turn out gay, they will burn in hell. That, to me, is child abuse. That's nothing to do with religion or spirituality. That's child abuse. So that's why I'm passionate when it comes to that. What do you think of the Republican nomination race, given that some of the candidates clearly position themselves quite deliberately to say anti-gay marriage, all that kind of thing, based on their religious beliefs? This we're back to offense, aren't we? Just because they're offended by someone being gay, it doesn't mean they're right. It's a strange thing that being gay is a choice. Being gay isn't a choice. I want to go, you try it then. If it's a choice, have a go. See how much you like it. Someone who's come to America and been the personification of the classic old American dream of they take anybody from anywhere and anyone can make it big here. I don't really care what else you've done anywhere else. I came fat with terrible teeth. You were the chubby loser. British or huddled masses. America's fantastic. It is the land of opportunity. There's bits of both cultures that I love and hate. The wonderful thing about being between England and America, they are both the land of freedom. Criticise them all you want, but know that you're in a place that allows you to criticise it. That's lucky. That's great. That should be cherished. Freedom of speech for me is one of the most important things that I discovered. I fight for the right of it. Even though I don't believe in God, unlike most religions, I treat all religions the same. I think they're all wrong. Not morally wrong, but I don't think there could be a God. If someone said we're banning religion, I'd march to not have it banned. It's your right to believe what you want. It's your right to be wrong. You went to church when you were 8. Did you make a decision not to go at that point? No, I still went. I got paid for being in the choir until I was about 14. I just kept it quiet that I was an atheist. I'll take the money. I'm not an idiot. Atheists got to earn. That's right. Atheists have to eat like everybody else. Exactly. I remember the moment as well. I believed in God because I thought everyone did and that was it. Everyone around me said things like that. It was on the telly everywhere. It was God. It made it all. I knew about evolution and all those things. I just thought he just started it. There was no cognitive dissonance. Exactly. I think I liked Jesus more because he was a bit of a superhero. I liked him because he was kind. Yeah, sure. He could walk on water. He did things. He helped people. In fact, I liked him more. I liked his human half more than his God half. I don't know the rules. Sorry, I don't want to offend anyone. You don't? I was doing Bible studies and my brother was 11 years older than me. I was about 8 and he was about 19. He came in and he looked and he said, why do you believe in God then? My mum went, Bob? I knew she was hiding something. I thought, what's that? I thought, yeah. Then I started thinking about all the things I've been taught versus all the things in science I've been taught. I thought, of course, it's just like Santa. It's a shortcut. That's why they pass it on to their kids. I've said before, my mum was mildly religious. Again, C of E religious. Go to church and you're a good person. You're a respectful person. Usually, for a working class mum, Jesus is an unpaid babysitter. If I can't watch you, he can. You take that for a while and it's fine. I don't think it's particularly harmful outside academia. Then you realise that it's just not true. Even if you look at the stats of religious people in prisons to atheism, it doesn't add up. Morality predates all religion. We got on before we had to make the rules before we had to make the rules.