Actor to Actor with Harrison Ford

Mr. Ford, welcome to the SAG-AFTRA headquarters. Thank you. And congratulations on being this year's recipient of the Life Achievement Award. Thank you very much. You've earned it. You've achieved. Does it feel like that? It feels like a lifetime. Not so much an achievement, but certainly a lifetime. That much I'll give you. Well, I looked at the word iconic. My first thought when they told me that they wanted to, you know, see if you would accept this award. And I was like, well, he's iconic. I'm like, okay, can you live with the word iconic? I mean, that's like... No, I'd really rather live with the words working actor. Yeah. So a lot of our performers are in the audition process ever since, really before COVID, but then during COVID. It's all about auditioning on videotape from home. The self tape. And it's turned into... It's a great convenience, but it's also from the culture of auditioning. It's rough. And it makes me think about the contract time when you're doing all those auditions under contract. Well, the best thing about being under contract is that they never put me up for anything I had to audition for. Oh, so that's it? You're in the rotation? Oh, yeah. Well, because my part often was nothing more than Mr. Jones paging Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones. I was under contract at Columbia Pictures for seven years. The first thing they put me in, I was able to remember all of the lines of the character that I played, a bellboy. And I was summoned to the office of the executive of Columbia Pictures that was in charge of the new talent program. I stood before his desk because there was no chair. And he said, boy, he always called me boy. He was about four years older than I was. He said, you're never going to make it in this business. And this is on the basis of delivering a telegram. And he said, let me tell you a story. He said the first time Tony Curtis was ever in a movie, he delivered a bag of groceries. You took one look at that guy and you say, that's a movie star. I leaned across the desk and said, I thought you were supposed to think that that was a grocery delivery. Nice. Yeah, yeah. He said, get the out of here. And I did. But I mean, some actors carry with them self-doubt, you know, that kind of that's a pretty rough thing to say to somebody from his position. I mean, I can carry both. I mean, I carried both. I carried a belief that I would learn to do this, but a belief also that it was a really hard space to own. And many people were not as successful as they wanted to be in the choice of that as a career. But I was not easily dissuaded, partially because I thought that it would take time and that I was learning. I really did not feel I was ready for much more than I did. You were under contract at that point. He was basically telling you, like, you're done with that. I just didn't know where in your contract phase that was. Oh, no, no, no. It was the first thing I'd done. So were you... I think actors now have a sense of, like, despair if there's... because you don't know where you can go. I mean, it sounds like maybe there might have been a context in that time where, OK, Columbia might not be the thing, but are there other places in town you might be able to go? Well, he later let me go after a year and a half of a seven-year contract. And within three months, I was under contract to Universal because there was not really some place to go. So nowadays, we look at Netflix and Paramount and Disney, and we're very aware of the change of executive leadership. We're very aware of the corporate stuff like that. At that stage, did you feel, when you were at Universal, like you were hitching your horse to Sheinberg's wagon? No, because I left there after a year and a half as well of a seven-year contract. To be frank, it was a difficult time in my life. I had kids and I was struggling with money. But it was a job, and I was glad to have it. I think so many of our ilk hear that and just feel it as... I mean, you've enjoyed so much success and you've worked so hard and you've occupied this space in the kind of global consciousness, but you still had that experience. Sean, I have been lucky. I have been very lucky. My father and I, we used to say we'd rather be lucky than good, but I think it kind of takes both. I don't mean that I haven't worked at it, but I have been lucky. I remember Witness and you talking about Witness when it came out. I was younger and thinking... So was I. But I remember thinking, like, oh, that's what an actor... You were committed to being an actor. That meant something to me that you... Like, I looked a little bit closer at what you were doing. Well, having seen what you've done, I appreciate that very much. Well, I was in a film trilogy. And you were in at least two film trilogies that folks know about. But that makes me think of... There was a moment on Lord of the Rings when... Not one moment, there were a thousand moments where the director, Peter Jackson, would say... He would talk about the audience. This is what I want the audience to be feeling. This is what the audience is thinking. And I never thought of it like that. I wonder, has that ever been a part of your... Oh, yeah. I think I'm always aware of the audience and wanting to bring them along. They haven't read the script. I want to create an experience for them. I could see on Raiders or Star Wars or Blade Runner or something like that where you can see set pieces that are going to affect the audience in a certain way. But is it distracting? Is the idea of the audience ever kind of... No. No, I work for them. That's my job. And I think about the clarity of what we're doing. I think about the energy of what we're doing. I think about the emotion that we're hoping to create. Over time, I guess if you're committed to that idea that each successive thing is you're in your own experience at that moment, then it's sustainable. But I just wonder over time if... I think it's our experience. It's like... I mean, the reason we write about things is because they have a common... There's something... Connects. That connects us in it. And we reach for understanding. We reach for a place in the world. I think a lot of actors, maybe many actors, don't have the conversation with the filmmaker or the screenwriter. Then that's a shame. Yeah. I think it's often unfortunate that an actor comes into a project and doesn't get a fair share of the director's attention. Especially actors without a lot of experience. I was going to say counterintuitive, but I guess that makes sense. That people without a lot of experience would need more of that. Not necessarily need more advice, but I think it helps to feel that the director is somehow connected to what you're doing. And it's not just an incidental moment, but that it means something. Because that's the only way you know what to do, is your concept of what the task is when you say that line. What is the intention that the writer had in mind? What is it you're hoping to elicit from the audience? What are you feeling? Are you really there? Is the character really there? All of those things. It would help to know that the director notices what you're doing. Well, you don't need that much attention. But I remember at the beginning of my career coming onto a set and just feeling like I didn't belong there. Not knowing how to behave, really. Not unwelcome, but just out of water. Just not as important as other people. You don't go through your life, really. I maybe do, but I don't, thinking who's more important or not. And that's not really what I'm talking about. I'm just talking about being seen, I guess. Yeah, well, I think a filmmaker has a lot on their mind. And if they don't include what's happening with you, then something might be lost. In order to communicate with a filmmaker, either early enough or with enough ability to affect either the dialogue or an arc of something or a set piece or something. I would think that you could have a communication with a filmmaker and they're going to listen to you. It is often the case that you develop a relationship with the director that is open and fruitful. And there are other cases where that's not part of his skill, necessarily, or not part of your skill. But you still have to attend to the story and your character's responsibility in the telling of the story. You may have a different concept than the director. And you may persist in that concept quietly, as I did with Ridley Scott in Blade Runner. He had a very different idea of the character than what I felt was necessary to drive that character for myself. I had to believe that I was human. Ridley insisted on believing I was replicant and that I would know it. I said, I cannot communicate from that point, that place. I cannot communicate as a human being. I would prefer just to think that I'm human. I would think with the kind of art design and scale of what he was doing, which seemed so original at the time, I would have been intimidated to or be wondering if I could own that position. But I had no experience as a replicant. I was miscast. No, you were not miscast. I was a human being. I am a human being. I didn't know how to play a replicant. It was a failure of my imagination. Everyone thinks so. So everyone, except my mother. And it served me to feel I knew where I was in the storytelling. Well, it seems to me that the tension between what he was saying he wanted you to do and what you knew and felt you could and needed to do is what the tension that the audience is supposed to be feeling about that experience. That's very much the way I felt. Can you imagine from that moment to this moment in time where robotics and artificial intelligence have come that you basically predicted the future? I'll take an apology any time now. Sorry. People always say, oh, I grew up with you. Oh, you've been a part of my life. And I think on some level, sometimes that feels like a way to try and describe an emotion that someone's having. But it's actually true for my whole life. When I was seven or eight years old, I had an action figure of you that I played and made little Super 8 movies with. And that's why it was weird because I felt like I was going back in time on some level or something. Well, that's why I feel like I'm 83 years old. It does strike me that I am as old as I am because what I'm doing somehow doesn't make me feel old. It makes me feel young. There's so much that I've heard about you as a pilot. And I love flying. And I've gotten to do some really cool things in airplanes. And that sort of sacred thing makes me feel alive. It sounds like you have that when you're acting. And do you have that when you're piloting? I feel like flying is an earned freedom. There's a responsibility underlying it that is key to the whole exercise. I feel the same way about acting. That you have to earn that responsibility with investment, with time, with industry. Because you can't count on luck. But my career is fueled by luck. My successes are attendant to the success of the filmmaker in almost every case. So if you finish a moment or you finish a sequence or something like that, you want to know that the filmmaker is getting what they want or need? You have that sense of deference? Sometimes, yeah. No, but if it feels right and we're not doing it again, there must be a reason. You know, it doesn't mean that everything is perfect. This is a craft skill. And what's going on with the shows? You're doing both shows at the same time? No, 1923 was only meant to be two seasons. It was incredible. You had held incredible. Yeah, I enjoyed it very much. It felt like you. It felt like you could have filmed it probably in whatever your backyard is. It was fun to work with Helen and I enjoyed very much working on that series with the director, who's fantastic. And Shrinking. On 1923. No, I know. I'm shifting. I'm grabbing the conversation, jerking it over here. Shrinking has been a really remarkable experience for me. Working with an ensemble for not three, four years. It's amazing how enriching that is and how much it's just been so much fun. The people are great. The writers are great. The productions are. It deals with mortality in a way that has you like, you don't want to blink. You don't want to. I mean, it's a TV show, but you're like. It's written with such skill and compassion, empathy, intention. All right, so this is an award being presented to you by a union, which you've been a member of. It's such a hard thing to be a professional actor from the very beginning. It's impossible. And then there's a crack and you get a job and you become a member of the union. And that's a big, big deal because then you have the support of the union. You have someone speaking for you to the bosses. That's your job now. And you've done it very well. Thank you. But it's a big deal to become part of. I never, when people say, what do you do? So, you know, odd jobs, carpenters. But I would never say I was an actor until I was being paid for it. Now, that's my little twist of mine, because that doesn't really make sense. Sure, it is professional. When you're a professional, you're getting paid for it, I think. Yeah, but if you don't have what an actor needs, you're not an actor, even if you're getting paid for it. I mean, it is, it's a spirit. It's a diagnosis. It's a complicated thing. But the thing is that you can't do it alone. You have to be employed. You have to be in the company of other actors. You can do it for free, but you have to feel like it's important. You have to feel committed to it and to make it real. Wow, yeah, wow. Well, you're right. We're in negotiations right now at this present moment. We are. It is a big moment for the industry. The culture has changed and the business has changed remarkably. And we don't have the support of movie theaters as much as we used to have. And that is a damn shame. That community experience produces positive effects, I think, in the culture. We've been disaggregated into serviceable economic units. But there's not the general feeling of community that we used to have when movies were more... They had captured the zig heist of the culture and they were feeding that zig heist. They were needed. Yeah. And they were telling a story that was needed. And that story was a positive contribution to the culture. It's still possible. You're doing it. You're breaking through to reaching other people. I mean, maybe they're watching their phones to see it or they're something. I mean, I know so many families where... But when you're home, you're home. You're not in a dark room with people that you don't know and who you begin to know because you experience a common humanity. That's a very powerful effect. I grew up in Westwood Village. I grew to know you. And many movies is an absolute lifetime achievement for me to get to sit here and interview you. And I'm not really kidding. I appreciate it. Thank you. Much love. Love to you on behalf of everyone. I can do that. Can I dub myself a person who can send love from everyone? From all the actors. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Yeah.