The Real Work of Contribution: Paul Sanftner on Purpose & Presence in Your Work & Career

Hi everybody, it is Jennifer Tarl. Welcome back to the Real Work Podcast. Today I am welcoming and having a nice conversation with Paul Saffner. Paul works for the city of San Leandro as their public information officer and he is responsible for developing and sharing public information that fosters transparency and engagement. His work includes producing communication materials, coordinating outreach initiatives and supporting the city's mission to keep residents informed about programs, services and opportunities. And he is dedicated to strengthening the relationship between local government and the community by ensuring clear, timely and accessible communication. Paul is very well educated. He has a degree in ministry from West Coast Baptist College in Lancaster, California, an organizational degree from Masters University in Santa Clarita, California and a master's degree in public administration from Arkansas State University. He is married, has three wonderful children, volunteers, does so many things. So please join me in welcoming Paul. Hey, Paul, how are you? I'm good, thank you, Jennifer. Thanks for having me. Yeah, so I'm super excited to have Paul. I'm gonna give him a quick plug. You must go to the city of San Leandro website and their YouTube channel specifically. You do such great work. It is what every community should have is just a YouTube channel and all of the information is not just on YouTube, but the information is always up to date. It's fun. You get to meet all of the different employees in different areas, and it's just an absolutely fantastic site. So definitely check that out. So Paul, why don't you tell me a little bit about how did you get here to San Leandro? You have all these other degrees. Walk me through your resume a bit. Sure, and for context, Jennifer, San Leandro is 30 minutes roughly east of San Francisco in the San Francisco Bay Area. We border Oakland. Oakland was known for sports teams, Oakland Raiders, A's, and then the Warriors, and they all left. But San Leandro is, I would say, the world within one city. We are multicultural. It's just a huge blessing to have different types of food and cultures in San Leandro. And English is, and yeah, mainly English is still the number one language, but it quickly is followed by our Cantonese, so our Chinese residents, as well as Spanish residents. And going back to the YouTube channel, we desire to reach out to the non-English residents to provide timely information about programs and services. And right now, I have the honor of having interns who know those languages, Cantonese and Spanish, to present the good work. And with YouTube, I just had a thought about how, and actually, it wasn't a thought of mine. It was my former city manager, Fran Robustella. She said, I want you to mass saturate the community. There's 90,000 residents in San Leandro. Try to do that, Paul. I don't think you will. And I'm like, well, Fran, I need a budget. So I got involved in understanding how Google Ads works. So Google Ads, you're watching a video on YouTube, a cat video, or maybe a Jennifer Carle-speaking video, and an ad pops up. Well, I did that with myself, and then later with my team. And over six years, we went from 233 subscribers to 14,500. It's amazing. And I send the videos that we produce, and I don't have full-time staff. I have a team, but I have mainly interns, part-time videographers, and they also have other duties as assigned. And I do have one full-time staff member. However, we're not a video production company. That being said, we're scrappy, and we're trying to take care of promoting a program and service, turn it into a story, which would then create a video in that. And we find great success in recording a video on an iPhone or an Android phone. You don't have to be like me with a Sony camera. Anyone can tell their story via video. And where I come from, grew up in Redding mainly. Before that, I moved around a lot. But Redding, California, so it's known for Mount Shasta and Sundial Bridge, and hot, it's extremely hot. 110 degree weather consistently in the summertime. And you have Shasta Lake, which is all beautiful. And I struggled with academics. I went to five different schools before second grade. I always felt behind. And I forgot how many number of schools I actually wound up going to after I graduated from high school, but it was a lot. And there were times where I was down on myself because I didn't know how to get ahead academically. I didn't have that support. But I had determination as a teen knowing that there are resources for me. So I was held back one year. I graduated when I was 19. And long story short, I didn't want that to keep me down. I knew that the Lord had a plan for me. I just knew that that plan was gonna be a little difficult. And I found out in my freshman, sophomore year of high school, this program that you could enter, I believe as a senior, yeah, as a senior, and basically conduct dual enrollment. And this was over 20 years ago. So this was, I think, fairly new for the area where I was growing up. And I would go to Shasta Community College, take the high school history class and high school English class. And then for the rest of the day, that was mine. And I think as a minor, I could only take 11 college credits per semester. And I wanted to maximize that. So I had two semesters and I completed 22 college credits. And there was like one semester, I had like nine credits and I couldn't go over 11, right? Because then that would be a restriction. So I picked a proofreading class. Interesting. And it was hard. Yeah. Proofreading. And maybe they don't have those anymore, those classes, but it was extremely helpful to understand attention to detail. And when I graduated, like I said, I graduated at 19, but I then entered college as technically a sophomore. And I graduated from college at age 22. So the normal timeframe. So it just comes down to determination. Yes, you may not have the resources in front of you. And that was many years ago. Now we have online school. If someone is wanting to catch up or get ahead, I think there's more resources now for you. But it's the mindset. Woe is me. Just continue to move forward. Yeah. How did you pick? What did you start with? Ministry and then you did administration or was it vice versa? Like how did you get all three degrees? I'm kind of curious about that. So I wanted to move forward with serving in ministry and I serve in ministry with my church now. But when I was young, I actually had a desire to stay in Los Angeles. So West Coast Baptist, like you mentioned, it's in Lancaster, 60 miles North of Los Angeles. It's in the high desert. It's called Antelope Valley of the county. So we're basically on the border of Kern County and LA County. And I really enjoyed that experience because not only academically and spiritually, but I went to Skid Row in downtown Los Angeles, a couple of Thanksgivings and helped served at a rescue mission. And it was tough seeing people doing drugs on the street, fights. Unfortunately, people using the curb as a restroom. Yeah. Just a lot of depravity. And I wanted to actually stay in LA and actually run for office. But that was my will, but wasn't his. And I finished and then I went to the Bay Area and I served in a Spanish language church. I don't know Spanish, so I was their English pastor. And I was involved in chaplaincy with the police department. And then later moving up further, I was involved in chaplaincy with the sheriff's office in Alameda County. And it was tough. It was tough ministry. I still enjoyed it, still made connections. As you probably can vaguely remember, there was a fire, a major warehouse fire in Oakland. This was December of 2016. It was called the Ghost Ship. And they had a concert, unpermitted concert in this warehouse. And the master tenant did not like the rules and made most of, I guess, the interior made of wood. I don't want to go into detail, but basically I saw a picture of the steps from the first floor to second floor. And it was made of pallets, you know, the pallets that you put stuff on. And a fire started, they believe electrical and 34 souls were lost. And I've responded to the family victim center to console the families. And they knew their loss, their loved one was lost. And that was difficult. So when I say it was difficult ministry, there's a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, but just being there was helpful. So I consider government as ministry. Like other countries, they call themselves ministers because they're serving the community, they're serving their nation, they're serving other nations. So it's a delight to serve with the mindset of servant leadership, the things that I acquired. Of course, I'm trying to always work on humility, but just the mindset, like Simon Sinek says, leaders eat last. And that's a great phrase when you're serving in ministry, when you're serving in government, you're a leader, not for yourself, but to serve others. Yeah, okay, so you have such a theme of service in your life. And I do wanna back up before we get into that a little bit. What did you learn that was a real positive going to so many schools as a kid? Like we know the negatives, right? But what did you learn that was really good from all of that? That's a lot of schools that you were in. It is, what I learned, and it was painful. And I'll get to the positive because I'm trying to search for that. Okay, and the answer is fine if there weren't many positives, that's okay. That's totally fine too. I think after a while, I assumed that I was gonna go to another school, so don't get comfortable with the current situation. And I asked my mom after several schools, I'm like, is this school going to be the one that I could finish an actual year at? So yeah, it was difficult not being able to have friends that were consistent. But one of the positive things that just built resilience in me in understanding that life is going to be difficult and how can I positively cope with the difficulties? For like right now, there's a lot of stress in the job that I currently occupy. What am I doing to take care of myself? And not to say, woe is me. I need to take care of myself physically, spiritually, emotionally. And I do not wanna project the stress on my family. And I've done that way too many times. They don't deserve that. I need to figure out, I need to mature. So maybe also a positive in going to many schools is like, you have to mature quickly. And understand that no one's gonna give you an A just to show up. You show up and you put your best foot forward and you seek out resources and politely don't take no for the final answer. There's always a resource. There's always something out there that can help get you through to the next step in your life. Yeah, so it's interesting. It seems like that is part of your life's work, which is like you did learn that. And so you're trying to help people find the services that they need and get what they need through your work now. How are ministry, your ministry work and the work that you do now, how are they the same? Like I'm making up ideas in my head, but like what's your thought on how they're the same? It comes down to when a resident calls in and complains and you know they're wrong, you still need to listen to them. Yeah. So it's the empathy, it's the service. There are many times where I wanna help them and I can help them. And I rearrange my schedule to make it work. I'm not gonna bring up any situations, but there was times where I'm like, I really feel for this person that lives alone and they need this and I can provide it now or in the next day and I'm gonna take care of it. I don't necessarily need to contact anyone else. Yeah, there's probably another resource, but then they're gonna wait on hold. So it's being adaptable in the situation, listening to them. And I just appreciate the fact like I can help them at the end of the day. And also just being refreshed in knowing that there's always gonna be opportunities to help, but if you can't help yourself first, then you're gonna burn out. Yeah. And I've been doing this for quite a while. I've been with the city going on six years before that I was with the County of Alameda working for an elected official. Absolutely loved it. But when family was growing, I wanted to put them first, but it's working together as you're working with a resident, you're empathetic, you care for them, but also you are caring for your fellow coworkers or staff in other departments to understand where they're coming from and never holding a grudge, being filled with grace because there are situations where maybe a staff member is wrong and they treated a resident poorly, just coming around and say, let's talk about that situation. Let's debrief because I know this is frustrating and they probably have that staff member probably has some personal issues going on in the home, but just being a help and always positively, leaving the door open in every situation with residents, with staff, with other agencies and knowing that like I represent my work, my government, my city, and I'm going to represent them well. I don't want them to turn on the news and see something negative about me. So high standards. Yeah. It sounds like it's a lot of do unto others as you would want them to do unto you, which I love that. I don't know if I have that quote right. And then also I do love what you mentioned about, but you need to take care of yourself too and kind of fill up your own cup. And that kind of comes, I think it sounds like you get a lot of satisfaction from helping people. So that must help you get through your day. Is that true that all of that helps you when it's tough? It does. I get a high, you know, the adrenaline is pumping when I'm able to help someone. Yeah. And that's not just the residents, it's staff. I have the privilege of having volunteer or interns that volunteer for me, interns that come from places that have their, they basically need job coaches because of a disability. And I also have just college interns. And it's when they come in, it's starting from step one. Here's the restroom, here's the kitchen. And then here's the way we communicate. Here are the platforms, the Facebook and Instagram and all that. And we don't wanna ever come off, you know, disrespectful to a resident on social media, just the basics. And then seeing them grow and develop themselves. I had, and real quick, I have one intern who came to me, I think she was like 19 and she graduated early and I really wanted to keep her. She was my city news broadcaster. And then she goes to a conference and finds Mr. Right, which is great. I love it. And then gets employed by a neighboring city. And just seeing her progression, it was wonderful. Yeah, I was definitely hurt when she left. But I set her up for success and I'm glad that she's doing well. And then also another intern, I actually told her about, hey, get your master's degree. And her parents were encouraging her to get her master's degree. So it wasn't just me. And I'm like, check out Arkansas State University because when I went there and it was fully online, it was affordable. And she looks into other schools and then she goes back to Arkansas State. And she's like, Paul, I applied, they accepted me and I wanna pursue my master of communication. And I'm just like, that's the one right there. And then she goes on and gets a full-time job and leaves me. So I'd like to see everyone develop because I continue on to grow. I haven't arrived. You can probably tell that I'm like a monolingual speaker. So I only know English, but the fact that I know my weaknesses in speech, even though I'm a PIO, that's been helpful to understand that. Yeah, there are vulnerabilities that I want to exploit. I wanna explore and I wanna move forward with that. And the reason why we met, Jennifer, was I needed a speech coach. I needed to hit some of the words that were difficult for me. And the confidence that you gave to me was incredible. Thank you. And just being vulnerable too, because I struggle at times. And my wife, English wasn't her first language, but she's a much better speaker than me. And I consult with her all the time. That's what a partnership should be. But understanding your vulnerabilities and turning those weaknesses into strengths is something that I want in my life, but also in the people that I'm surrounded by. And we have a small office. Yeah. There are six desks in this small office and we all enjoy, no, actually seven. Okay. There are seven desks and we're like kind of stacked on top of each other. But it's great because we're learning from each other. And there are some times where I'm like, hey, we didn't do this right. We need to correct this. Whether it's a video, it's a social media post, press release, I mainly do press releases. And we talk through it. And at the end of the day, there's no grudges against me or I'm not holding a grudge against anyone else. And we just, it's a productive conversation that we have to make each other better. Also another good resource, and I know not everyone can afford it, but masterclass.com. We actually go through different lessons in masterclass.com. I love it. That's been super helpful. So LaVar Burton, Reading Rainbow. I love him. He has a masterclass. I think it's like storytelling or something like that. And then Ken Burns talks about like the art of filmmaking. Beautiful. And then James Clear, Atomic Habits. So every week we set aside 30 minutes with the team. We have a TV in our office and we press play. We watch the brief video and then we talk about it. And interns are taking notes, part-time staff are taking notes because we wanna better ourselves and improve. And yeah, everyone's probably gonna leave eventually, but I want them to leave with confidence, with humility, with a desire to serve others. And I'm just having a time in my life, like seeing them grow as I'm growing with them. Yeah. I mean, any intern would be so fortunate to work with you. You put in so much time with them. So some of the things that I'm hearing that you kind of instill in them, which is work hard, keep learning, always try to better yourself, even if that's leaving you and leaving San Leandro. It's like, go on to bigger and better things. I love that you help them find like different educational opportunities like the Arkansas State. What do you think young people need to learn now? I hear this from people who live all over the world is that after COVID with people being home for so long, like things have changed a little bit. And I hear lots of different answers. I'd like to get your perspective. Like what is like one nugget that you can give to young people now? You know, in young, I'm making that a very broad term. You know, like what could people do to kind of help themselves if they don't have a Paul to help them? The people that I look up to that have wisdom are people that put themselves in situations for growth. So I would ask and recommend to young people, stop looking on your phone for hours and hours, put it down, go outside or pick up the phone and go out, you know, and look for different ways that you can connect in the community. There are so many free ways that you can connect. You know, there are service clubs and I'm not endorsing any of the language that I provide for companies. I'm not endorsing, but there are so many service clubs. The Kiwanis, the Rotary. Yes, there might be age restrictions or whatever, but just get out there. Like I said, it goes back to, don't ever accept no as a final answer. And there's other ways to volunteer your time. Like I'm involved in Little League because of my two sons. There might be an opportunity to volunteer as a teenager in Little League. And then you're gaining life experience, but you're also gaining connections and networking. I use LinkedIn like crazy. Oh, so-and-so, she looks cool. You know, I'm hearing her in the news or whatever. I'm looking her up. Maybe I can connect with her and see what she's posting or what he's doing on LinkedIn. At one point, I really enjoyed LinkedIn and I know it's now, there's a lot of political posts that I wanna ignore because I wanna focus on positive, enriching content. But there are so many people out there that are posting something very positive that improves my perspective in life or maybe I question what I'm doing and it's helpful. So to answer your question, Jennifer, I know in a roundabout- No, it's good, yeah. You gotta put yourself out there. Do not have idle time. And if you do have idle time, it's to rest and to recharge. But when you have idle time staring at a screen for no purpose, it's not gonna help you. And COVID, unfortunately, it allowed people to binge watch more than they would have. Guilty, yeah. And then also the governments, and this is every, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the governments did not encourage, and this is not just the US, but worldwide, did not encourage people to exercise during COVID. And I think that is key. And yes, we have different climates, but if there's a will, there's a way. So you gotta put yourself out there and then also admit your mistakes. And I learned that really the hard way because I start serving as a intern with an elected official and an amazing guy. I, coming into it, I was like 24, and I assumed that if I made a mistake, he would just cut me because that's what I saw in federal. You know, you make a mistake and you're out of there. But he was so patient and kind and gracious at what I turned from having a wall up, not admitting my wrong to being vulnerable, to breaking that spirit. I think- Okay, I love that. No, you've said so many great things. I have so many questions. So first of all, I love, this is such great. It's just such a great life lesson. Don't be afraid to admit you're wrong. I could not agree with you more. I had a lot of interns too in my previous job and the women, it was mostly women, who did the best would always say, I don't know, or, oh gosh, I messed that up. And I never cared. And I think most people don't. It's like, okay, yeah, even if it was a really big mistake, let's fix that and like move on. And it is about just being authentic. And then two other things that I love that you said, we're like so simpatico on this. Learn as much as you can from others, mainly if you can connect with someone, right? In a group or an organization. I just spoke at the Rotary Club. They were amazing. I highly recommend. I knew nothing about Rotary. It was lovely. And exercise. So I have two questions. I exercise every day. I work out from home and I go for a walk. So I want to know what kind of exercise do you do? And number two, what are you reading? Thank you. Two great questions. So I super commute two to three sometimes. Yeah, I wanted to get into that too, so I'm glad you brought that up. So I super commute. And it's a long commute, right? So I need to take care of my body. Okay, so let me interrupt quickly. I'm so sorry. How long is your commute? Can you tell everyone? Because it's crazy. So out of the majority of the commute, I only drive to this train station. From the train station to my actual front door of my office, I'm taking public transportation or I'm walking. So it's basically three hours one way. Unbelievable, okay. So I wake up at 4.30. If I have to go in early, I still go to the gym and I work out. But if I'm able to wake up early and either work from home or go into the office later, then I actually found this free men's workout group called F3 Nation. This is all over the world, mainly in the US. And it's all over like the East Coast. It started in North Carolina. And it's just a bunch of guys showing up to a park or a school at 5.15 in the morning. And the three F's are fitness, fellowship and faith. And it's not a religious organization. It's a nonprofit, 5.1C3. And their mission statement is this. It's to plant, grow and serve small workout groups for men for the invigoration of male community leadership. And then there's a credo, leave no man behind, but leave no man where you found him. So it's not- Oh my gosh, I love this. It gets like everything that you're talking about all in one fell swoop. It's basically service while you're working out. And the joke is we're a workout group with a leadership problem. Like we wanna improve our relationship with our spouse or our relationships at work. Well, it's through the workout, which is amazing. And then there's five core principles. And I wanna circle back to like, how can this workout improve your relationship? Yeah, tell me. So the five core principles, it's free of charge. I've been a part of this group for over six months now and I actually lead a workout site. And they have yet to ask me for money and they won't ever ask me for money because the barrier needs to be the lowest. We don't need a barrier at all for guys to show up. Guys can be obese and we welcome them. Guys can be physically fit and ready to run a marathon. We accept them. So it's free of charge, that's one. Number two, open to all men. Number three, held outdoors, rain or shine. So we're at city parks, schools, wherever. We're outside, we're never really inside. And let me put in a disclaimer on that. Maybe in Minnesota or Michigan, when it's freezing, they'll work that out. They'll accommodate. But I know of like Finland, it's negative 38 degrees and they're working out. They're cut different over there. Yeah, I did see a video of them doing that. That's crazy. And then number four, pair lead in a rotating fashion. So you have five, 10, maybe 20 guys. And you're working out one day a week and every guy's gonna trade off and lead the workout. So there's not one guy that's leading it entirely. So for 45 minutes, you have one guy and then it rotates, like I said, to the next week, there's a new guy. And in our area, we have actually multiple workouts every day, roughly, seven days a week. So if someone wanted to get in shape and connect, they can go to a workout 45 minutes a day, every day, Sunday through Saturday. And there's running, there's a bootcamp, there's a rock where you put a heavy backpack on. So they mix it up. And then there's our older guys where they just wanna stretch. Well, there's a mobility workout where they're just stretching for 45 minutes and having fellowship. And then the last one, the last of the five core principles is ends with a circle of trust. And I really appreciate this because then we come together after 45 minutes and we just share what's going on with our work, with our families, and we get it out. And I've been frustrated at times with work or with situations in the community. And I'm able to express it and it lightens my load. So it's not, all the stress is not in my head. So I'm not one to run a marathon. I just wanna stay healthy. I don't wanna just eat a bag full of chips and just have mindless eating. And I have done that. And the discipline of this F3 workout has helped me to know that there are guys that will hold me accountable. There are guys that have been obese most of their life and they come to F3 and they are supported. And like I mentioned before, leave no man behind. So if we're on a run or we're working out, we're coming back and we're gonna pick up the six. That means we're gonna come back and get the last remaining guy. And we're gonna, he's gonna now lead us back to our flags. We have an American flag and a F3 flag as kind of the landmark where we start and stop the workout. And no one's there to compete against each other. We're only competing against ourselves. And that's what I love about having that sense of community. So that's the fitness. And then the fellowship, there's times where guys hang out, chilly cook-offs, Christmas parties. They get together, just fun stuff. They go golfing together. And then the faith component is how can we serve in the community? How can we connect with Rotary or the school district to help with community service projects? Or maybe there's a church that needs help with a food pantry. They just need volunteers on a Saturday and we're there. And it's incredible how this group has transformed the way I can do all three things and excel. And my family has seen a difference in me. I just need to get sleep. If I'm waking up at 4.30 in the morning or 4 or 3.55, depending on when I need to be out the door, I need sleep. So I'm sane and I come home in a good, joyful attitude. It's a juggle, but it's been incredibly enriching knowing that there are just random guys, blue collar guys, white collar, there's doctors, there's plumbers, there's janitors. It's a mix and no one is greater than another person. And we're here for one another. My garage door broke and I found someone through the group that fixes garage doors. And he's like, oh, I haven't worked out with you, but since you're a part of F3, here's a discount. And I wasn't asking for it. The community has been, it's all about community, Jennifer. And that's guys because guys are different than women. There's a women's group called Females in Action. I think it's less well-known, but still helpful. And I'm hearing these guys go, yeah, my wife just joined FIA, Females in Action, and she loves it and she's in a better spirit because of working out or whatever. I love this because I think as you get older and I've moved around and as you get older, it's harder and harder to make friends. It's not that you don't want to. It's like everyone is in their own routine and everything. So this is a great way to build that community, get the fitness in. And I love, again, you are just such a problem solver. You're figuring it out. It's like, you're not complaining. You have probably more to do than most of us. You are so busy and you have your super commute and you're coaching your son's baseball team. You're being a good husband. You do your ministry on Sundays. You're going to have to come back on because you do so many things and you're so inspirational. But this is a good lesson to all of us that you can do it. You just have to find a way. It might take a little research and you're kind of ticking all the boxes with this one thing. I know you're going to have to run pretty soon. So let's circle back real quick to the question about are you reading anything good? Do you have any good book recommendations, podcasts? You're super commuting. So what are you doing on the train? Knitting? I don't know. What's your deal? I'm working on the train. So I bring my laptop and I have this laptop stand. It's stainless steel. So it's a couple pounds, but it elevates. So I'm not looking down on the screen. So it's a laptop stand is what technically it's called. I just bought it off the internet. And actually my wife found it first. It's been super helpful. So because I'm sitting for most of the commute and sometimes I'm standing up and the train is great. It's through Amtrak. The trains are owned, I think, by the state of California, but Amtrak's the contractor that runs the trains. And there's a restroom, there's a cafe. So I'm drinking water. I'm trying to stay hydrated, hit my minimum ounces of water and it's just been great. So the last book and I just finished it, but I'm drawing a blank. You know what? You're like me. I always forget the name of the book. Like I can give you the gist of it. Like right now I'm reading a book about Captain Cook. It's fascinating. It's so good, but I can't remember the name of it. It's like wide sea or something like that. So it's a really long name. Close, close. Yes, but you're close. Now I just found it. So it's by Dr. Scott Gorto called The Stories We Tell Ourselves. Oh, okay. And in a nutshell, his subtitle is Stop Jumping to Conclusions, Free Yourself from Anxiety, Transform Your Relationships. I had to read this book and I continue to read. Underneath my desk I have multiple books that are in the queue for me to read because I want to better myself. And I'm not a good reader, but I'm going to occupy my time to better myself. And reading is just, you're in a different world when you have a book in front of you, an old-fashioned good book. And Kindles are okay, but I just love the physical book. Same, I do too. Yeah, I do too, yeah. And Scott's, and the reason why I read this book was I'm trying every year to take one executive coaching course at this private Christian college. And so it's an executive coaching certificate program. And this year, I think it's class number four. So I'm going to read more books. But going back to The Stories We Tell Ourselves, it's focused on this scenario. Jennifer didn't call me back. She must be mad at me. I do this. And then in my mind, right, I'm creating this story, this movie in my mind about why you didn't call me back. You must be upset. And I'm the hero. And Scott walks me through, walks us through how to stop jumping to conclusions, assuming the worst. And just basically, can I say, chill out and wait for Jennifer to call me back or to maybe be proactive. Maybe something happened and you're like, hey, I'm sorry I didn't call you because this came up and talk through it. So it's just been incredibly helpful in understanding that we create these stories, these movies. And he goes over and over again about we are the film director, the producer, the actor, the actresses in our own story. And we tell ourselves lies and falsehoods just to feel comfortable and know that we believe we're in the right at all times. And many times we're not. And sometimes we just need to wait for that call or to be gentle in hearing back from that person. I love that. So I say this a lot in my coaching classes, which is like, everyone always says like, well, I'm terrible at this. I can't do this. I'm like, no, that's not true. Like, of course, it's like people hire me to help them be better communicators, but oftentimes people think their problems are way worse than they actually are. It's that sort of, like you said, I like the way he describes it, that story in your head that you kind of make it up. So I always end with a question about people who have helped you. I feel like I've been so blessed and so fortunate. I've had so many people in all aspects of my life just help me. It's overwhelming sometimes how much gratitude I have. So do you have one person who has really helped you or do you have a story that you can share with us? Maybe someone even you've helped because you've helped so many people. It would have to be my wife. Yeah. She's just incredible. Very patient and kind. She has just an understanding of how people work and she can figure me out before I figure out myself and just walk me through difficulty. If I have to make a difficult decision, it's just talking through it. And usually 99.9% of the time she's right. The other times she just happened to be wrong, which is rare, but I'm usually like, no, no, babe, I can handle this. I'm right. I'm gonna tell this person that they are wrong and then she just cools me down and she gives me space to reflect the process. And I think that's what we're missing in this world. We're not reflecting on our potential actions or the actions that we made against others. And it could be positive. You got an A. Well, let's reflect on how- Why and how, yeah. And the reflection and the processing isn't there. It's just everything needs to be quick and fast and who cares about taking a breather and processing the day. And processing the day, processing situations with my wife has been just transforming because now I can make better decisions or I can stop assuming in my head that this situation is going in this direction and just be calm and be still. I love that. What's your wife's name? Jerome. So it's like Jerome, but without the E and yeah. I gotta say that was such a romantic answer. It's Valentine's day tomorrow. This won't post until next week, but like what a great story. And yeah, it's again, even building community within your own family, going to the people who love you and who you trust. So I heard several big themes here, which is just always give back when you can, kind of a be grateful for what you have. Don't wallow in what didn't work out. Work really, really hard. Take care of your body and just always keep learning. And you are just always paying it forward. You're amazing. So I am so glad you were here. Will you please come back on? I really want to hear about your ministry. And I also think a lot of my audience who are not native to America would love to hear about coaching. And like that in America, it's so different than I think in other countries, how we do things. Yeah, please plan on coming back. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for taking all this time. I will be back. Okay, take care everybody. Thanks everyone for being here. Bye.