Why Aaron Gwin Is Finally Racing Red Bull Hardline

When was the first time you seriously thought, okay, I might actually give this a go? The first time I feel like I seriously was like, okay, I think we might do that was maybe like a month ago. Whoa. And I think like watching the Tasmania round last year was kind of the first time where I was like, okay, that's like a big gnarly track with big jumps, but everything seems to be built so well. Let's hope they tape off the course a little bit better this year, right? Yes. So everybody rides the same line, should we say? Yeah, yeah. I'm sure Bernard Kerr will fill me in on all the details. How different is hardline prep compared to World Cups? For me, honestly, it's not different at all. I would say I'm just coming in less prepped than some other races. I keep joking. I'm like, yeah, we'll just pick a nice easy race to kind of like ease our way into the year. So it's huck and hope, is it? Yeah, yeah, huck and pray. That's what we're doing. There's definitely like a skill in leading people off jumps. If I can get through the first day safe and get all the jumps down and just kind of get comfortable on all that, I think that's the thing I'm looking forward to the most is just enjoying the week, enjoying the track and that type of riding. So it should be a good time. We have quite a few things in common. We've both got a soft spot for Jordi Cortes, I understand. Yeah, that's fair to put it. We've both been on this planet for 38 years and neither of us have competed in Red Bull Hardline. True. Until now. However, this whole video is Hardline Tasmania preview with Aaron Gwin, but I'm starting to think that I've chosen the wrong person for this video because this will be your first ever Hardline, right? Yeah, yeah, I'll answer as much as I can, but it's all gonna be new for me. Firstly, when was the first time you seriously thought, okay, I might actually give this a go? I remember, I think when it, maybe the first year they had it. I know that Red Bull has embodied me in the first couple of years and it was, I think it used to run more in the middle of the season, race season, or maybe right at the end, I can't remember, but I just remember it was gnarly. I'm pretty sure I was in the title hunt, trying to win World Cup titles at the time and I just used to be very selective with the races I did outside of the World Cups because I was so focused on those races and those races required so much travel and time and effort and stuff that I didn't really wanna do any other races unless I felt like they were gonna help me be better at the World Cups. So I felt like Hardline was at a time in the year where the rest was more important than racing more and it was just a gnarly race and so the risk of injury and everything, obviously, with any race you do, is a bit higher. So I think that was the first time I kinda thought about it, but the first time I feel like I seriously was like, okay, I think we might do that, was maybe a month ago. Whoa, okay. Yeah, I think the Tasmania one looks pretty fun, maybe a little safer than the Wales one. They're down in all the tracks so good now, but maybe the weather in Tasmania has been a little more consistent, which I think is maybe a big factor. But yeah, when Nico and I started talking about frameworks, he was like, dude, he's like, we really enjoyed doing the Hardline races last year with Asa. And he's like, I think you would really like the Tasmania one and it would be a rad way to kinda launch the team with Asa and I in first race of the year in February and we still got good time when we get back to train and kinda get ready for the rest of the races. And I'm not doing every World Cup this year, I'm doing a little more of a select schedule. So he was like, I think you would have a lot of fun if you wanted to race it. And I was like, sweet, let's do it. How does the process work with Hardline then? Do you just express your interest or will they actually come to you? It depends, a lot of years they'll reach out and send me the invite, but I think they, I know that the door's always open if I wanna go do it, so it's really like on their side, there's never any pressure. It's just like, hey, if you wanna go do any of this, like we would be stoked to have you, but we're not gonna bug you, like just let us know what you wanna do is usually kinda more their vibe. So yeah, I think really it was like Nico sold me on it this year and he just said that the events are run really well, the tracks are really fun, and that Red Bull takes like really good care of the athletes when they're there. So we were like, cool, let's do it. So we're kinda treating it a little bit as like a pre-season test camp as well. We're gonna stay there and ride Medina like the week after the race and do some testing and stuff. So yeah, it's snowing here, so I ain't mad. It'd be a nice change up. We'll get onto that. We spoke previously into that 2024 and you said that Hardline maybe wasn't worth the risk. So was it Nico's encouragement that kind of twisted your arm? Yeah, probably. I think, and I think like watching the Tasmania round last year was kinda the first time where I was like, okay, that's like a big gnarly track with big jumps, but everything seems to be built so well. It's usually, at least so far, hasn't been raining there. We'll see, now it probably will, but it's like, seems like the weather's pretty consistent. So yeah, that track, and I think just it falls so early in the season, you've got quite a bit of time. I think it's like at least two months, maybe almost three after the race before the first World Cup in South Korea. So there's enough time there. Like it just, I don't know, it fits into the schedule without feeling like you're cramming it in between a bunch of other stuff. Let's hope they tape off the course a little bit better this year, eh? Yeah. Yeah, so everybody rides the same line, we say. Yeah, yeah. Like when I watched it last year, it felt like it was aces to lose almost. Yeah, it seems like you would have without that line. I didn't really actually understand that whole thing, like what happened. I wasn't super in the loop, but I know like- You'll hear plenty about it in the next week. Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure Bernard Kerr will fill me in on all the details. How different is hardline prep compared to World Cup? Is there any prep? Dude, for me, honestly, it's not different at all. I would say I'm just coming in less prepped than some other races, which I keep joking. I'm like, yeah, we'll just pick a nice easy race to kind of like ease our way into the year. But no, we were in California with the whole team about a week and a half ago. We had team camp out there and I felt like that was really good just because it was dry, kind of similar conditions. We rode at Laguna quite a bit, which is like a really fast track. So I think that helped me. I rode my dirt bike once before the weather started being bad here. But yeah, I haven't really done much. The big jumps and stuff will be kind of the thing I'm gonna have to adjust to because we just don't have anything like that around here. So like ride Windrock, we've got a pretty big drop in a few things, but nothing like a hardline drop. So I think Asa went out to Utah and rode a little bit, some of the old rampage sites and stuff. So my plan is to just follow him or some of the boys off the jumps for the first time. And then once we get them down, we get them down. So I wouldn't really say there's a ton of technique involved in jumping those massive jumps. You just gotta guess the speed right. So if I can watch somebody else do it and they're successful and then I can just follow them the next time, then I think hopefully we'll be all right. So it's huck and hope, is it? Yeah, yeah, huck and pray. That's what we're doing. Yeah, just going back to that SoCal trip, because there was so much footage that came out from it. Was it training, testing suspension, or was it specifically hardline prep? No, it was definitely just a team training camp. Just bike testing stuff for the most part, just tinkering with things. I feel like that bike when I got on it a couple of months ago for the first time was already so dialed in. And like I've said in other interviews, like Nico knows me really well. The suspension he gave me, everything he gave me was already like pretty set up for me. Like I didn't need to really change much. I ended up, I think, dropping a volume spacer front and rear and running a bit more air just to use more of the travel more often. But really like my general settings and everything, like we kind of left them. And I'm sure we'll put those volume spacers right back in as soon as we get to hardline. So yeah, it was really just time on the bike testing. We ran the data stuff for a day too, Ancho and I. And just kind of like, yeah, they're just kind of like, hey, here's some options, here's some other things. We messed around with, what else did we play with? We have like that, I think it's like a steel bond bracket from a 5Dev that goes in. I think they actually just launched it. Yeah, I ran that for a day because I was running some weights kind of like zip tied to the bottom of my bike at the end of last year that I liked. And I really liked that new product. So we were messing around with that, just confirming some stuff like, hey, this is just going to be a part of my setup this year. And like, here's some options of stuff you can try. And so for the most part, I just really enjoyed doing like a ton of laps. I didn't really have a lot of stuff on the bike I wanted to figure out. I just wanted to ride the bike and it was really fun to ride a lot of my old trails that I used to ride all the time when we lived in California. So that was really fun. I mean, you're renowned for a pretty stiff suspension setup. When you're setting up the Tasmania, are you going to be setting up for race performance or is it a more survival setup? I think there with how big the jumps are and stuff, I think you do, you don't want to go too far obviously one way, but I think that track generally is dry. Most of the corners have berms. Like I think there are a couple of flat off camber spots, but for the most part, I think you probably just set your bike up really stiff to kind of handle the drops and the jumps and make sure the bike's carrying speed. And if you over jump something or whatever that you don't explode. So I think the hard line setup is just going to be really firm from kind of what I hear. This one might be hard for you to answer, but do you feel ready for such a insane track like both physically and mentally? Yeah, I think for me, like I'll be a little nervous the first day for sure. Like when you jump all this stuff for the first time, I just saw a clip the other day where I was like not very nervous because you watch the GoPros, and the GoPro effect, everything looks more chill than it is. So you're like, oh yeah, it looks fine. And then I saw a video of maybe it was chaos, like casing the last double and from the angle they filmed it at, I was like, bro, that looks like he's jumping like a football field. Like it's huge. And so that kind of gave me a bit of perspective on how big a couple of those jumps are. But I think for me, dude, I just kind of like trust the experience I have. And you know, like I know from Asa and from Nico and they're like, dude, everything's built really good. And Red Bull, it sounds like they do a really good job of kind of getting the track down as like a team. So like we have track walk the first day. And then the first day of practice is not like, okay, open practice, everybody just starts sending it and figure it out. I think the entire group of riders works down the hill from the start gate. And they do like one section at a time. And you basically just jump, like you just check off one jump at a time as a group. And I imagine they have the guys that built the trails and the guys that are local there that jump those that are super comfortable on them. So they can kind of lead everybody into the jumps for the first time. And then once the riders are jumping them, it's like, you know, you can let somebody else be the guy to jump it a few times. And then once somebody has the speed down, then you just follow them really on those big jumps. Like they're built so well, I don't think you gotta be too worried about like getting kicked or like having to do anything special, but just ride off the lip. So the only thing that's really like tricky is you just gotta make sure you go off the jump at the right speed. And I, even then, I think the way they put the turns and kind of the run-ins to stuff, like it kind of rides that trail speed. You don't need to be like sprinting hard or pulling up or like braking for stuff. Like I think it just kind of works. So just all of that info that I've gotten, I just try to think about it, to be honest. It's like, just kind of trust my skills. You know, I know Troy jumped in, did really good last year and some guys that are just like calculated riders that aren't like these big huck, you know, kind of like cinder dudes. So it's like, all right, if they're good, I've got plenty of good jumping skills. So as long as I just kind of follow those guys and be patient on the first day, it should be fun. Have you got anyone specifically lined up for that toe-in partner that you're gonna be like, right, you're the guy. Yeah, maybe Troy, honestly. I know Ace is gonna be keen, but Ace is so young, nothing is sketchy to that kid. It's like, he can do the sketchiest thing. You're like, dude, how was it? You almost like, that could have been death. And he's like, oh, it was sick. It was really good. And you're like, okay. So I don't know, I think we'll vibe it out, but yeah, I'll probably be following Ace or maybe ask Troy, because I know Troy's, you know, he's got a little vet status and I'm like me. So he'll be trying to play a little safe. Even at your level, I reckon there's still riders that go, ah, it's chill. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm actually excited. I know like the first time you jump a few of them will be like a little nerve wracking just because they're big. But I think once you get them down, I mean, I used to jump big dirt jumps as a kid and it was always like, or big jumps at the dirt bike track. You always got that, like those nerves. And then once you do it, it's super fun. And I'm just excited to actually ride some bigger stuff because we don't usually ride big jumps like that at the World Cups. And that's something that I enjoy from racing motocross. So I think once I get them all down, it's gonna be a really fun track to ride. Is that the mindset to go in with? You kind of have to go into that MX mindset that, okay, this is just like a motocross event almost rather than a mountain bike event. Yeah, yeah, maybe different. Yeah, we'll see. Like I think for me, I just, like I said, I'm not trying to think about it too much. I think I have the skills to be fine. So I just wanna like, we'll do track walk and then we'll work down the hill with everybody and jump the jumps. And then once we kind of figure the track out, there's a lot of practice, it sounds like. So there's not like a big rush to like need to get up to speed like at the World Cups. You got like three or four runs and then you're already into like time training and then qualifying. So here, I think we have three or four days of practice. So you can kind of just like ease your way in, figure out all the sections and the jumps and then kind of start building speed and then riding by yourself and then kind of like get ready for the race. And I definitely wanna do well, but I wouldn't say like this race is on the top of my list of where I really wanna be killing it this year. So I'm kind of approaching it, not casually, but definitely more in like, this is part of my pre-season prep, not a race where I'm like, I have to win it. That's actually on my list of questions. Like, how do you think World Cup race is seeing hard line in relation to the World Cups in terms of results? Like, is it seen on the same level? Probably depends on who you are, maybe. Like, I think for like Jackson and Asa and those guys that are like really going there to win and they've already won. And if they're doing, you know, the whole series and stuff like that, then I think like there's maybe a bit more in it for them as far as like what their goals are. I think for myself, being new team, kind of being in a year where I just wanna get a little better through the whole season and try to get back up to near the front. For me, it's, like I said, it feels more like a prep race, like a really good race to get comfortable on the bike, get good experience, be ahead of the game, you know, for preseason stuff. Like this time last year, I was just talking to my wife yesterday and she's like, well, you're quite a bit further along this year than last year. And I'm like, yeah, because I just had a hand surgery last year and I was still laid up and I didn't even get back on a bike last year until two months further along than we are right now. So I feel like I'm already pretty far ahead of where I was. And so I'm just excited to put time on the bike and get a run on the clock and just kind of, every time I do that, you find things you can work on and it's motivating and all that. So we still got a lot of time before the World Cup start, but it's nice to be kind of in the groove already pretty early in the season. When you told Lauren that you were gonna do Hardline, what was her reaction? I think she was a little nervous on the race, but really excited to go to Australia, because it's- Were you asking for permission or was it I'm doing this? No, no, I just tell her I'm doing it. I don't, she's always down for whatever I need to do. But yeah, I try not to say much. I make little jokes like, yeah, hopefully we just survive. And she's like, don't say that. So, but yeah, she's all good. I think we're excited to, I'm excited as well to go to Tasmania. Never been there. I've been to Australia a few times. She's never been there. She has a lot of friends there. So we might try to visit a few of them if we get some time while we're down there. And just a really fun place to be. So when you're kind of in the World Cup grind and you're kind of going to the same venues year after year, it's really cool to do the traveling, but it's definitely like World Cups are their own thing. You know, we don't have a lot of time usually between, and I don't tend to like hang out in Europe for a ton of time between the races. So, you know, it's fun when you can do something like this where you've got an extra week after we're going somewhere totally new and cool. And it's a little more of a, like a laid back vibe. So yeah, it'll be kind of a, I wouldn't call it vacation, but it definitely feels more like a, you know, kind of like a fun trip with other stuff. You're not so just going there to racing. That's the fun side of it. But yeah, I just want to touch a bit more on the fear and the mental game aspect. I'm trying to avoid this, dude, you're ticketing. It's probably not the best time a day before you fly out. You've been at the top of this sport for nearly two decades. How has fear changed for you over time? It's hard to say, man. And in a lot of ways it remains the same. I think sometimes the challenges are different, but the, you know, like a gnarly track is a gnarly track, whether it's a, you know, a hundred foot jump at hard line, or if it's a five foot gap over a route and an off camber in the mud at a world cup, you know, like fear of a certain section or a jump or a whatever, like something gnarly that you just kind of got to like line it up, trust your skills and go for it. I think is, yeah, it's been the same since I started racing. I just think that once you have more experience, you have more to draw on a little, you just kind of trust your experience a little and maybe you don't think about it so much. You just go like, look, you're good enough. You've done stuff like this a million times. Like just ride it, like don't overthink it. Just at some point you got to kind of turn the brain off and trust your skills and just commit to something. You can't be thinking about something like that, you know, all the way off the lip. At some point you just have to act like it's going to be totally fine and just fully commit to what you're doing. And that's part of riding, you know, and if something bad happens, something bad happens, but that's part of it. So yeah, I think for me, like the fear hasn't changed. I just think you have more experience to draw on as you get older and I think as you get older, you're probably a little more patient with how you go about stuff too. You know, I don't need to be the first guy jumping every jump in practice next week. I can let the young dudes kind of do that and make sure it's all good and I'm okay to, you know, I don't have, I'm totally fine kind of hanging out in the background until everybody's comfortable and then jumping it and kind of doing it at the lowest risk time as I possibly can. Would you say that your approach to risk is different now to what it used to be? Yeah, sure, probably just maybe a little more patient in ways. It's funny because I think in ways I'm more patient and in ways I'm more confident because I've done so much. So maybe, you know, earlier in my career, maybe I was a little, I don't know, braver would be the right way to put it, but maybe less patient. But I also just, now I have so much more experience to draw on that maybe I don't second guess myself as much as I did earlier in my career. So maybe like I'm more patient, but when I decide to go, like, I just, I go, I'm okay with it. Where do you think, when you look back at your career, will hard lines sit in that story? We race so many races, you know, when you race as long as I've raced, that you can go back and try to remember some of them, but really just the high ones, the high points or the bad ones kind of stick out, right? Like your wins, your championships, your first win, your chainless race, like the ones that are like the big kind of crazy ones. And a lot of the other ones kind of just blend together a little bit more unless you really like watch a video or kind of dig into it a little bit. So I feel like hard lines is one of those races that it's kind of like a once in a lifetime experience. Like we're going to a really cool spot. The tracks like totally different than anything I've really ever raced before. So I think when I look back at, I hope that it's just like a really fun, cool memory, you know, and I'll be like, yo, I jumped a hundred foot jump. Not a lot of people that can say that. I know you kind of answered my next question. So I was going to say, is it about proving something to yourself or is it just to do something cool before the end of your career, I guess in racing? Yeah, I would say it's just kind of a combination of like doing something cool. And I think I'm set up well to do it this year. The timing's good to go do it and it will be a lot of fun. And I just, I really want to do well this year and next year. So I think it fits into my goals of preparation for the season and just trying to really be ready and be fast and be comfortable when we get to these World Cups later in the year. So I think it's like a combination of the two. I get the impression you're going to enjoy this season by a lot. Yeah, I hope so. That's the plan. I should, I'm having a lot of fun, man. I haven't had a, I don't want to say I haven't had this much fun in a long time because I've always enjoyed, even through the rough years, like I love riding my bike. That never changes. The race results can be frustrating when you're constantly racing injured or underprepared or whatever. But I still like the bike riding side, but I would say like I'm coming, this is the first off season I've had in quite a while that I've been healthy the whole off season and not had to like go get a surgery when the season was over. So being able to kind of ride and train and kind of also just relax a little bit and be able to go to California for team camp. Wind rock has been like really good lately, the riding conditions out there. So I feel like for this time of year, it feels more like a old off season that I used to have like years and years ago. And I'm really enjoying riding that new bike. Like it's just an easy bike to ride really fast. And that makes it fun. It's like, you're not really tinkering with a lot of stuff. You can just be comfortable and just ride a lot. So I think, yeah, I'm really excited for the season, man. It's been a really good off season so far and we still got a few months to go. Thought it'd be worth briefly touching on Asa and also Nico because that team environment that you put yourself into, like it's obviously a different dynamic to what you had over the last few years. When I first met Asa, like I was so impressed by how mature he was for a kid at that age to kind of, just to hold himself in the way he does in social settings. And I thought, yeah, he approaches life very differently to what I did when I was that age. It must be quite nice to be around sort of a young kid that's so fresh and so with it. Yeah, for sure. I think I've had some really cool young teammates even in the last few years with Mikey and Gavin, like they're just so full of energy, like great kids, love to ride. And I think Asa is the same and he's obviously like so talented too. I think the two of us work really well together. It was cool riding in California with them. Like I spent more time with them before that, but that's the first time we've like really ridden together and kind of hung out every day. And it was just really cool. I think if we did a hundred runs over the week we were in California, we were probably riding together for 90 of them, like pretty much every lap, like he's following me or I'm following him and we're like riding together. So I think that just makes it really fun. I think the two of us kind of work and learn together well. Our bike setups are very similar to as far as suspension goes, which I had no idea where he would be at. But after testing with Fox and kind of like seeing where we both ended up, we ended up really, really close, like almost identical in a lot of our settings. So that's always nice too, because I feel like I can kind of help him or he can help me, like we're so close that the two of us, we have similar preferences. So yeah, I think just riding, hanging out, like you said, he's a great kid. He's got a really cool, fun attitude. Like it's all centered around like positivity with him and like having fun and being happy. He's not one of those dudes that, I'm sure he feels the nerves and everything and he really wants to do well, but it's not like he goes into this quiet, like dark place when he's racing and stuff. He's just like always lively and fun and enjoying it. So I think it's just a really good vibe, man. And then yeah, Nico obviously has all the experience he has and his passion is to just try to support his riders as much as he possibly can. So as a rider, man, like you can't ask for any more than that out of a team owner or manager. And then Anna, she's awesome too. First time I'd spent any time with her really was at team camp. And we rode a little bit together and just got to chat about some stuff and technique and just different things. And that was really cool. So yeah, between the three of us, Asa, Anna, and then Mikey, he actually came with me for my program. He's kind of on the development side of Frameworks now too. So Mikey's my boy, like we get along awesome. So it was really cool that he was able to, that Nico had him come over as well. So we just got a good crew, dude. It's a really good team. The juniors as well, which weren't there this week, but they'll be there later in the season. Like we just have a good team, good vibe. And yeah, it's fun. And it's, I think motivating, it kind of checks all the boxes, right? It's like, it's a good environment, but it's also like as far as fun goes, but it's not like, oh, we're just having fun and jacking around. Everybody really wants to be successful and do well. So you have the seriousness of the support you need, the equipment, the mechanics. I was able to bring my mechanic over with me too, James. So there's a lot of familiarity there, but then it's like, yeah, it's got that balance of being fun, but all the support you need to try to win. So it's, yeah, hard to ask for much more, I think. I played Topgolf with Nico and Asa last year. If it can be half as fun as that was, then you're onto a winner. Nico hit a golf ball, it was special. It's one of the funniest things I think I've seen. Yeah. He hits a golf ball exactly like you think he would hit a golf ball. Like not a lot of finesse, just power. And like we had a buddy of ours was at actually Topgolf a month or two ago. And we were, we went for like a company Christmas party with, for Windrock and Nico was there. And he told Nico, you hit that ball like it owes you money. And I was like, that's a perfect way to say it. Like Nico just Hulk smash everything. Yeah. And I think Asa takes the happy Gilmore approach as well. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and Asa's getting pretty into golf and Mikey's really into golf as well. So those two are dorking out on golf pretty hard now. That's pretty much all that plays in the house on TV after we're riding every day. Is that right? Golf, yeah. Yeah, the YouTube golf channels go heavy rotation. Right, we'll get back online. Just end things with Hardline. Who is the bravest rider you think, do you think at Hardline? I'm not sure, because I've never been there. I feel like, you know, some of those guys that are just really good at that kind of stuff, like Asa, Jackson, Bernard, like those are all the guys I feel like big jump guys, super comfortable. From what Nico says, like how Asa was when he got there last year, he just wants to be the first guy to jump everything. He's just like so excited. He doesn't want to sit in the back and let people ride. He just wants to be riding. So yeah, I'd say a couple of those young dudes are probably pretty brave. And I know Bernard and a few of those guys have been doing it for a long time. They're really comfortable on that big stuff. So probably one of those guys. Did you ever watch Matt Jones's POV video when his, I think his bike was delayed for a couple of days. So he missed the first few practice days. I could see him being pretty nervous. Like if our bikes don't show up and we race on, I don't know if we race Saturday or Sunday. I think Saturday. Like if you didn't get on the track until like Thursday or Friday and you only had like a day or two to do what you've got to do in four or five, like I could see that being stressful. I think the biggest problem he had is everybody else was up to speed and he wasn't. Yeah. Must be a hard place to be. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I can see that. Like you're not jumping one jump at a time. Everybody else is working on speed. So you're like, all right. They're like, sure, you can follow me, but I'm like, I'm going to do the whole track and I'm sending it. And that would be where you would have to start. That would be gnarly. Okay. Who's a rider that you probably wouldn't follow into a jump? I don't know. I think again, talking to Nico last year, he said that Asa was falling Bernard off all the jumps for the first time. And after the first couple of big jumps, I think Asa decided not to do that anymore. And then he would just jump them on his own. Cause he thought Bernard was sketchier jumping for the first time that he would be. Cause I think Bernard just like probably sends and scrubs or whatever. Like there's definitely like a skill in leading people off jumps. You know, like if you just kind of roll off of it, trail speed and you don't have to do anything and you can just trust the person is going to do that. Whereas like sometimes they might come in a little bit faster, like more race pace and then like scrub it last minute. And then you're like, oh crap. Like if you just roll off of it, you're going to go really deep or maybe they pop it a little bit at the last minute and you don't. And then you case the heck out of it. So there's definitely like, you know, some riders that I think can make that easier. And there's other riders where they're like, yeah, yeah, just follow me. But then they're just kind of like riding it how they would normally ride it with all the little things, extra things you do that can be hard to follow. So I don't know, long winded answer, but yeah, I'll probably follow somebody older or something. Sensible. This one might be difficult for you to answer because you've not been there, but if you could remove one feature from the track, which one might it be? Man, I have no idea. I don't know. I don't know any of them that are little problems. And I think like watching the videos of everybody jumping the jumps last year for the first time and also like the helmet cams, it doesn't seem like any of them are like more sketchy than the other. Maybe some of the jumps down bottom when it gets a little bit windier, because I heard like it is, they are pretty open down there. So if it gets windy, wind is always, you know, the hardest kind of sketchiest thing with big jumps. So, but I don't know, they all seem like they're built pretty good. So I don't know enough to say that one would be sketchier than another. I think they just are, you know, bigger or smaller. What would success look like for you on the hard line week? I think just having like a healthy, fun week is like definitely number one. The goal, just be patient, continue getting comfortable on the bike, just like have a fun time. Like I think more than any other race I've ever done, like fun is kind of the goal. Just enjoy the week. I think being in the top 10 would be like the expectation. And if I can get up in the top five, then that would be like a really good result. But I'm not really, to be honest, like I just want to ride well and ride kind of exactly where I'm at this point of the season. I think I'm patient enough too to just kind of just want to do good for where I'm at because I've got this bigger picture in mind for the rest of the season. So I'm not really going to like push or do anything crazy to compromise that. I just want to enjoy the week and leave the week feeling better on my bike than when I started. And finally, on race day, what should viewers be watching out for when you drop in? Hopefully I don't look like a vet rider over all the jumps. I still have some style in there. But yeah, I just, yeah, I don't know. Just want to be fast and like I said, have fun and kind of enjoy the flow of what that track is. So it should be a fun run. And I'm just excited to race the Frameworks bike for the first time. I think that will be cool to see. Do you have any OCD prep when you like go into the start gate? Is there anything that you always do? No, I kind of like, the only thing I do that's like maybe kind of consistent is I do some breathing exercises usually as long as I have time. And I usually fist bump my mechanic before I roll into the gate with like a minute to go. But I'm not like an OCD superstitious kind of person. I think I try to make a point of really not being that way. Like I almost go out of my way to not do things too weirdly, like consistent like that. And I always mess with people. Like if it's gonna be my last lap of the day, I have no problem saying, hey, I'm gonna go up for one more lap or this is one more run. And people, I kind of like to watch them like squirm a little bit. And I always tell young riders too. I'm like, dude, don't be superstitious about that dumb stuff. It means nothing. It's not a real thing. I'm like, you don't crash on your last lap because you said last lap. You crash on your last lap because usually you're going the fastest you've gone all day. And you know, it's your last lap. You're like, let's just turn it up that last half a percent. And your mind's already on to like, what am I gonna eat after this? Because I'm hungry and my drive home and like all the other stuff. So you're riding at your fastest with maybe the least amount of focus compared to what you had earlier in the day. So I'm like, that's why you crashed. Not because you said last lap. So I was like, be confident enough to like own it. Say last lap, like you don't need to drop a brand new helmet on the ground when you get it. Like it'll probably hit the ground eventually and get scratched. So just let that be that. So yeah, I'm not a superstitious person like at all with that stuff. So yeah, we're just gonna ride. I don't even think they let you take your mechanic to the top of the hill at this race. Like, I think it's like, it's more casual. I think you kind of warm up in the pits and they kind of like just let the riders, they want the riders to kind of do their own thing a little bit more at the top. I'm not a hundred percent sure. So yeah, it's good. I'm not relying on those fist bumps to feel like I'm ready for my race run because it might not even be an option. Yeah, I mean, it's gonna say one thing that really made a big difference last year, I think was Steve Peat was watching the runs as they were happening. And then he spoke to Jackson and said, you might wanna see that. And I think that probably is what changed the race. So I wonder whether they're gonna account for that this year because there was definitely a benefit to watching the riders before you. Yeah, yeah, maybe. Yeah, hard to say. Yeah, I don't know. Well, I'm looking forward to it. I can't wait to watch it from the other side of the world and I hope you enjoy it. That's the most important thing. I really hope you enjoy it. And it's as enjoyable to watch as it will be to ride. Yeah, thanks, man. Yeah, that's kind of name of the game. I'm really excited to, I feel like these Red Bull events are awesome. They've been so good to me for so many years and it sounds like they take such good care of the riders at this event. And it's just, I got sent the schedule the other day and it's just pretty cool. Cause it's like, here's your practice. Here's your gym if you wanna use it. There's a sauna and a cold plunge and here's where we eat. And this is all the tools that are available to you if you wanna use them throughout the week, every single day. Like they really make it to where it's a cool routine. So yeah, I think just if I can get through the first day safe and get all the jumps down and just kind of get comfortable on all that, I think that's the thing I'm looking forward to the most is just enjoying the week, enjoying the track and that type of riding. So yeah, it should be a good time. Well, the two people who have never ridden Hardline before, I think this has gone quite well. So thank you very much for your time and yeah, good luck next week. Thank you bro, appreciate it.