Emma Thompson Breaks Down Her Most Iconic Characters

And I went to the opening of Love Actually and Hugh Grant came up behind me and said, is that the most psychotic thing we've ever made? Sense and sensibility. You talk of feeling idle and useless. Imagine how that is compounded when one has no hope and no choice of any occupation whatsoever. Our circumstances are therefore precisely the same. Except that you will inherit your fortune. We cannot even earn ours. So Lindsay I had made with Ken Branagh, Dead Again. So I'd met her and Scott Frank who'd written it and we'd become very close making that film. And then Lindsay had seen a television series, a comedy series I had made. In it there was a sketch about a woman coming home to see her mother. She'd been living with her husband and she's come home to her mother to investigate a mystery that she can't quite work out about a little creature, little hairy creature that lives in her husband's lap and that he's introduced her to. And she said, you know, do you know what this is? It's about sexual ignorance actually. And it was based on an Edith Wharton story that was very serious. But I made it into a sort of comedy sketch because it's set in Victorian times. Lindsay thought, I'm going to ask this woman to write Sense and Sensibility because she can deal with language and she's funny. It's fascinating adapting a book for film because you can never know. It's a very good piece of advice. If anybody's thinking of adapting a book, just dramatize the whole thing. And you'll find that scenes that really are nothing in the book are huge, acted out. Lindsay, who was responsible for choosing the director, pointed me in the direction of Ang Lee's film, The Wedding Banquet, a Taiwanese film. There's a line in it where the elder sister says to the younger sister, what do you know of my heart? Which is exactly what Eleanor says to Marianne. Eleanor, where is your heart? What do you know of my heart? What do you know of anything but your own suffering? And I thought that's so interesting, but clearly understood everything. In the same way as Kazuo Ishiguro understands everything in Remains of the Day. He understood class. He understood repression. He understood sisters. He understood family. He understood snobbery. He was just extraordinary. And he didn't really speak English at that time. So it's before everything he made. It's his first English language movie. And on the first day when we were shooting, me and Hugh Grant were shooting something, at the end of it, we said, oh, actually, you know, can we do that again? We just want to walk this direction. We just try a slightly different way. And he reacted very well and quietly. And then I discovered subsequently that no one had ever questioned him before. Because as he said, in Hysterics, some weeks later, in Taiwan, the director is God. You don't ever act as you just move them around. They're just pieces. He said, it's absolutely not collaborative. And actually, he loved it. He loved the collaboration. If it will be of any satisfaction to you, however, to be told that I believe his character to be in all other respects irreproachable, then I'm ready to confess it. And in return for such an acknowledgement that must give me some pain, you cannot deny me the privilege of disliking him as much as I adore this cottage. It was a very happy film. But in terms of the cast, we were so lucky because they were all, in a way, theater people. Kate was 19. So she was untried. I mean, she'd done Heavenly Creatures, but that was it. And she was heaven on earth and still is, you know, just completely normal person. Hugh, I kept on saying, God, you're so grumpy. You've got the energy of a welk. And he would respond quite well to that. But actually, I think it was nice for him to do something like that at that point. Alan Rickman, God rest him, he was so happy to be playing someone heroic and nice because he was so fed up with people wanting him to be the sheriff of Nottingham. They just came on and were those people. I mean, it was as though they knew Austen personally. You know, she'd drawn from them rather than the other way around. So it was a group of actors who understood one another, you know, and there were no egos to speak of. So there was no one to navigate. So we could just be love, actually. So what's this big news then? We've been given our parts in the Nativity play. And I'm the lobster. The lobster? Yeah. In the Nativity play? It's the ultimate ensemble, isn't it? We did sort of get flung into our pieces one by one. I do remember opening it in New York and I'd just done Wit with Mike Nichols, which is not a rom-com at all and something very serious, you know, and sad. And I went to the opening of that and then the opening of Love Actually and Hugh Grant came up behind me and said, is that the most psychotic thing we've ever made? And I said, well, you know, time will tell. Time will tell. And time has told. It's sort of felt it holds up because it's so full of Richard's deep love for humanity. I've worked with Hugh Grant so many times and he's been my brother, my lover, my sort of husband person, somebody I've served as a servant in Remains of the Day. We've done so many things together. I worked it out. I thought, I think I've worked with him more than anyone, more than Alan Rickman, more than anyone. And it's always been a completely different relationship. God, that's a surprise. What is it? It was easy, really, to do. I knew what being heartbroken felt like, so it wasn't difficult. We did it about, I don't know, four or five times. Richard Curtis snivelling in the corner, which was very funny. It was just that thing of, that I so understand, of people crying and then, but not wanting to cry and then having to cover it up. Nobody, there's nobody who doesn't know what that's, or no woman that doesn't know what that's like, especially if they've got kids. And straightening the bed is just such a natural thing to do at the end because it's just that last little moment of, I'll sort my face out, push this somewhere where it's not going to be seen, and then just pat the bed. Nanny McPhee, she's my avatar. She's just this strange, magnetic, odd-looking, female, deep, wise presence, who's also anarchic, really supports protest of the right kind, believes that children should be heard and listened to, is living proof of the fact that you should never judge a book by its cover. Don't bother with that nonsense. What I found interesting from the point of view of the film was I thought it would be fascinating to see someone who changes according to the way in which people are behaving around her, and according to what's happening inside them, and how they're changing within themselves. Does she become actually more normal-looking, or is it because they feel they're beginning to settle, they're chaos? So there's something deeply elemental about her as a character, but also about my relationship with her. When I was researching Saving Mr. Banks and finding out that, well, Roald Dahl, yes, Walt Disney, yes, Pamela Travers, also Beatrix Potter, presumably Enid Blyton, that people who write for children, as it were, they often write for the age where they were most badly damaged, or where they needed the most comfort. And I found that really interesting. And then I remember that, of course, my father, who died young, wrote a thing called The Magic Roundabout, which was a sort of cult program in the 60s, which was designed for children, but which he wrote for everyone. He said, I don't want to write for children. Children don't exist. That's such a con. They're just people who haven't lived as long as we have. But what dad was doing, I think, is something that really means a lot to me, that he was writing for people, for everyone. It's patronizing to change your writing because you think you're writing for children, and they're not going to understand the darkness. And Roald Dahl knew that very well. And he'd get letters from a little lad writing him saying, my mum's just hit me and put me in my bedroom for calling my sister a mollusk. And he would get letters from parents complaining about the language, you know, you can't use language like this for children. So he'd get out the Oxford English Dictionary, find all the longest and most abstruse words he could, and write back using all of them. So he was mischievous like that. But he also saw something, I think, that's very true. We're all just people. You know, we shouldn't talk down to children. It's just this sense of a kind of cynical writing for children that I observe a lot. And I think that's not real writing. You're not recognizing your audience. This is your most precious, your most sacred audience. So you make sure that you write something that's better than you've ever written. Really focus, because if you do that, people can watch it together. And that's a very precious thing, really a precious thing. So in a way, she's one of the most important people I've ever played. Tell us what to do. You must undo it for yourselves. You are very clever, children. I mean, Amy Fee's a sort of Western, really. I watched a lot of Westerns with my dad. You know, the unorthodox authoritarian figure comes in to a chaotic situation and using unorthodox methods restores harmony. It's a Western. And then has to leave. That's the absolutely essential thing, is that he or she or they have to leave. And that's what's so beautiful about it, is accepting that you have to, you can love, but you have to let go. You have to be able to let go. She contains all the most important lessons of life. Howard's End. Astonishing bad luck. But in the whole of London, they could find no flat to rent. Except the one bottled right up against our library window. Who could find no flat? I play Margaret Schlegel, the eldest of, well, three children. And she's a sort of blue stocking, really, struggling with early feminism. The early ideas are in the early part of the 20th century, when everybody thought that, you know, by the time we got to the early part of the 21st century, women would, for instance, have equal pay. How wrong she was and how disappointed E.M. Forster would be. It's pathetic, actually. I just knew exactly who she was. I didn't have to draw on any experiences. I knew exactly who she was because I was a young feminist. I wrote to James Ivory and said, I can play this woman because I know who she is. But I knew that she was someone who wanted things to change, was willing to be a part of that. And then, you know, made this massive and unexpected compromise. But in the end is the one who challenges the sort of deeply patriarchal Mr. Wilcox and says, your standards are double. They are double standards. And I do not accept them. And nor should you. So she's a sort of worrier. I was just wondering if you were intimidated playing that romance out with Anthony Hopkins, because he was quite a bit older than you at the time. Yes, he was. And I think that was right for Mr. Wilcox, of course. When they did it more recently, they were far more of an age. I think it's much better that he's older than Margaret. And Tony had just become more famous than God in the Silence of the Lambs. And my mother had known him from like yonks ago, drama school or something like that, because she was sort of his age. And she sent me into rehearsals with a little note saying, please don't eat my daughter. And that's how we started. And when he opened it, he did this thing that Tony does when he's amused. He just he did this. He does a very strange little snort of merriment. And I knew we were going to be OK. He's a wonderful, wonderful man. I was so lucky. So, so lucky. He taught me so much. And Vanessa Redgrave taught me so much on that film. They were amazing. When she kisses him on the stairs. Yes, she doesn't really know what to do with him, really, does she? But then there's a bedroom scene at the end where you go, oh, actually, I think they've had quite a nice time. She looks pretty relaxed. And he's very pleased. At the beginning, she's really not sure about it. But of course, she won't have had sex with anybody, Margaret. At least he's got a little bit of experience. But goodness knows what it was like. I don't want to think about that now, actually. I did. Thank you so much. That's what everyone asked afterwards. And no, it's the short answer and actually the most interesting answer. In the name of the father. How can I help you? I'm the solicitor for the Conlon's chief inspector. Giuseppe Conlon is critically ill, as you may know. She's called Gareth Pierce and she's a solicitor, but behaves and has sort of carte blanche in the film to behave like a barrister, really. She's a warrior for social justice. And this injustice of this banging up of people for 17 years, they were put away. You know, people died in jail. Their lives were ruined. And it was all this tiny piece of forensic evidence that had been mistaken. You know, and it was Gareth who kept on and kept on and kept on. Of course, I prepared for it by meeting Gareth Pierce, who is still in her 80s fighting the good fight, you know, and defending people who need help. And particularly, of course, climate change activists as well have been put into jail for protesting, which is entirely outrageous. When we were making it, Dan and I were doing a scene outside the courtroom and I got a card stuck against me and a person and it sort of gouged into my finger. And I've got a little scar on my finger there, a little cross-shaped scar. And Gareth's got the same scar on the same finger. And I remember thinking, that's interesting. Because she's a very, very private, very, you know, closed person, not someone you can say, so, Gareth, how's it been? She's just not that sort of person. So you just read her determinations, watch her cases. I mean, she's a solicitor. You know, she's not a barrister, actually. So we kind of fudged it a bit, Jim fudged it. The most extraordinary woman, and the fact that she is still active today just says it all. Her passion for justice remains undimmed. And by God, you've got your blood, Mr Nixon. Mrs Pierce is making a political speech. This is outrageous. You've got the blood of Giuseppe Conlon. You've got the lifeblood of Carol Richardson. And you've got 15 years of blood and sweat and pain from my client, who's only crime was, it wasn't. He was bloody well Irish, and he was foolish, and he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Mrs Pierce. It was multiple takes, I think. I just remember getting really angry. I think I went very red in the face and had to go outside and cool down till we do another one, because it's so infuriating. I tell you what was in that was Corrin Redgrave being evil. But Corrin, of course, like Vanessa, was a deeply politicised and politically minded man, who was fascinating to talk to about all of it. And he was a tremendous source of inspiration, actually, because he knew so much. They were so well informed, those two. Remarkable people, really, to work with. Not what you come across now on a film set. I did watch it again, I mean, just to marvel at Pete Postlethwaite and Dan, of course, Daniel Day-Lewis, who was just extraordinary in it. I just remember the real camaraderie of it, that this was a film that wasn't just a film. This was a film about a miscarriage of justice that had resulted in, you know, true, terrible suffering. Terrible suffering, a tragedy. Saving Mr Banks. She's not a giddy woman. She doesn't jig about. Her singing is frivolous. It's wholly unnecessary and a governess, an educator. No, it would simply ruin it. I won't have her turned into one of your silly cartoons. The thing about PLT was that she was really humorless. Really humorless. And yet her books, the first Mary Poppins, are remarkable. Remarkable writing. So she was, as the film suggests, as Kelly Marcel, the writer of the excellent screenplay suggests, she was going back to where she was most in pain and comforting herself with Mary Poppins in the same way as Disney was comforting himself. With Mickey Mouse. Childhood reading is so powerful and often a great comfort and often, you know, you're only escape. I'd read everything. I'd spoken to friends of hers. And I'd really, really went deep into her because she's a real person. You know, she's had a fantastically difficult childhood. I mean, really appalling, actually. So all of that childhood trauma and probably intergenerational trauma as well played out in everything that she wrote. And then she visited it upon her own adopted children. And she was hugely complicated. And she was much, much more unpleasant to the Sherman brothers than we show in the film. Responsible is not a word. We made it up. Well, I'll make it up. She was just awful to them. I mean, they just told me these stories. She kept on quoting things at them, which is so irritating. They stood in front of her. She would never eat with them in the refectory. She would never go near anybody because she just didn't want to sort of sully herself, I suppose. They both learnt the Gettysburg Address, stood in front of her table and performed it for her, which was very witty and sweet and kind of rather a loving thing to do. And at the end of which she just went and left. What would you most desire? I mean, desires are never mundane. To have sex tonight with you. That's about it, really, for the moment. My favourite film that I've ever done. It's such a wonderful script. Katie Brand wrote it. I mean, not for me, but with me kind of in her mind. And again, it was a bit like Margaret Schlegel. I knew exactly who this woman was. She was like lots of mates, I think I had. People who'd left school and done the good girl thing, really done it all right. As she says at the end, I did everything right. I did everything right. And I ended up feeling empty and as though I had never had an adventure. And I bet you there's a lot of people who feel like that still. Because women still don't have those choices. They simply don't. And it is still expected of them that they will be good girls, that they will be mothers, otherwise they won't be natural women. All of that is still swirling around us. It really is. Not only that, this thing of sexual pleasure, which supposedly we had this sexual revolution in the 60s, which really benefited men more than women, instead of how to deepen our relationship with our own erotic desires, which are often very odd, and deepen our relationship with each other. Sex was sold as this kind of transactional thing, actually. And the whole aspect of orgasm, the endless magazine articles, how to achieve orgasm, as though orgasm was some sort of achievement, not a natural human pleasure that is remarkable that we have access to. There are only a few other animals we know of that have access to that kind of pleasure that you can give yourself, you can have with another person, that is free. And that there is so little understanding of female pleasure. The fact that it is quite rare for a woman to achieve orgasm during penetrative sex, whereas all the performance of sex in porn is all about penetrative sex, making women come like steam trains. Very, very unlikely. You have to be super good at it and know where your G-spots are. I think where she has an orgasm is super important. Did you? Stop asking. Okay. You're fixated. I think you should drop it. I know, I know. I just, there's no pressure, of course. I was just hoping. Maybe all the others are faking. Have you ever thought of that? I think that you don't see that, an old, old, old, older woman having an orgasm on her own. I've never seen that, ever. So I was, and I'm proud of that scene. I think it really works well. We've traveled all around the world, me and Daryl, talking to people. And it was fascinating to me because not only were we hearing from gay couples, particularly male gay couples, saying this film helped us so much. And younger women saying, I'm 21, I've never had an orgasm. People actually able to say these things. Nancy's so ashamed. She's so ashamed. And she knows what she wants. She doesn't know how to get it. But she has this trace memory from when she was 16. To me, it's heartbreaking. She's such a heartbreaking person. But at the end of it, you know, there's a whole world available to her because she's found her body. So whenever people say, do you want to watch a film and do a Q&A afterwards? I generally choose that one. The conversations are so interesting and they're so surprising. And my grandmother, who said to me, on the landing in our home, when she lived with us, I feel sorry for men because they have to do it. And you go, oh my God, you're in your 80s and you have never had any sexual pleasure at all. And I think that's such a waste. Because we are animals, we have this extraordinary capacity. Down Cemetery Road. He's got a secretary. Am I warm? The secretary is still a thing. I think someone is hiding something. Okay, so big bang. Two bodies and a disappeared child. Maybe this case could go all the way to the top. I'm a huge Mick Herron fan. I've been a fan of his for 15 years. When I first came across his books, I went, oh my God, who's this person? So when I was offered it, I took it very seriously. And then I realised that I would be able to channel my -----kicking Camden School for Girls self from the 1970s. I thought, I think she comes from that. I think she grew up in Finsbury Park. Actually, she's not a Londoner in the book. She's very different to what she is in the books. She's deeply unapologetic and doesn't need to be a good girl, doesn't want to have children, kicks the ---- out of anybody who really exhibits the kind of cruelty, bigotry and idiocy that so many she encounters do. She's passionate about justice, about people being found out for what they've done. So she's another avatar. She really is from my youth.