Phillies News: Kyle Schwarber Is Coming Home!

from WHYY. It is hitting season. Hey there podcast pals. I'm John Stleness from the good fight. You can follow me on X and Blue Skyness. Coming up, Emergency Podcast. We've got a bonus podcast coming your way here on the oneyear anniversary of the Phillies signing Jordan Romano to a free agent contract. So, we are going to we're going to break down where we were that night that this all happened one year ago on the episode of the podcast. And we will also talk about Kyle Schwarber staying in Philadelphia. That of course is the big news out of the first two days of the winter meetings. The first major free agent to sign is of course Schwarber with the Phillies. And it all it all happened exactly like everybody said it was going to happen. It's I think there have been a lot of people out there trying to create drama where maybe there really wasn't a whole lot of drama to begin with in the first place, including ourselves, you know, for listens and clicks and downloads and whatnot. So, it was a it was I think it was a well spent last month and a half of podcasting here about Kyle Schwarber, but he does return to the Phillies. Signs a free agent deal. The Phillies confirmed it on Tuesday night. So, we're going to break it all down. Rob Thompson also signs a one-year contract extension through 2027. That was also expected. Uh we'll talk about that and we will also talk about why the New York Mets are having a really, really bad start to the winter meetings thus far. Still a long ways to go here in this offseason. So joining me for this emergency podcast, my round table co-host Justin Clue and Liz Rocher, of course. Liz from Sabres Baseball Research Journal. Follow her on X and Blue Sky Liz Rocher. Liz, Kyle's coming home. How we feeling? >> Pretty good. Pretty good. I think uh most of us are feeling pretty good, especially since we all thought this would happen. And it feels good to be uh right, but also in this case, it feels really good to be right because we're not going to have to hear about it. >> Yeah. >> Like it's it's over. >> He's he's here. He's signed the contract. It's been confirmed. There will be probably some kind of press conference or who knows whatever. But like, you know, the best part is that the the I mean, this is obvious I think it's this is what Schwarber wanted. He's like, "Listen, Christmas is coming up. Let me just sign my contract so I can wrap some gifts for my kids. >> Right. >> Also, I think his wife is pregnant or he has like a new child. One of the two, I think. And so, like, he's he's busy. He's a busy man. >> Yeah, it it see it definitely seemed like Kyle Schwarber wanted to get this done sooner rather than later. And it seemed like the rest of Major League Baseball wanted this done sooner rather than later so the floodgates could open up for some of these other bigname players to to move around. And that's I think what we're going to see over these next few days and weeks now that Kyle Schwarber has decided to come back to Philadelphia. Justin Clue from Baseball Perspectus. Uh he's also the host of a couple of podcasts over at our hittingseason Patreon. That's patreon.com/hittingseason absolutely hammered and the dirty inning. And then of course he's also the author of the fourthcoming book Summer of the Cheap Wiiers coming out in February. Justin Kyle Schwarber a Philadelphia Philly just for the exact number that I remember you said just a couple of weeks ago. Five years, $150 million. >> I got that one and I got the Harper four home run night. And that's it, folks. Those are two pretty good ones. Uh, and there were other, many other guesses, but still. Um, I know we're going to talk about the Mets. Uh, I do want to spend a minute talking about another team that was involved in the Kyle Schwarber sweep stakes, but I kind of want to talk about the extent to which they were involved. Uh you you got the small list of other other teams that had sent in offers to Kyle Schwarber. One of them was the Cincinnati Reds whose proposal was in the $125 million $125 million range. Uh but they were open to it going up blah blah blah. The point is this was the team that was like the other team kind of by default because you know they tried to openly seduce Schwarber at uh the Red Stadium. Go ahead, John. Yeah, I was gonna say Schwarber allegedly visited Cincinnati over the last few weeks. Visited the Red's organization. >> Yes. Uh so that was uh you know and the whole that's where he's from. He's from Middletown. They wanted to bring him home. Blah blah. Oh yes. Very scary. They were going to seduce him to Ohio with promises of it being close to where he was from. Okay. No one's ever been there before. >> I've lived I've lived in that I've been to Cincinnati a number of times. I I mean I'm sure he likes it. Charm City. >> He's No, he's lived I mean, yeah, but whatever. Sorry. It's Queen City or who knows. Queen City. Yeah, the Queen City. The >> Queen City means nothing. >> No, it means it means nothing. And here's the thing. KL Barber has been to other places now. He's been to Los Angeles, New York. He lives in Philadelphia. Like, he knows what a real city is, and Cincinnati just ain't it. Well, I think that's more than appropriate sentiment to have because in Ken Rosenthal's write up, he said that the the Reds offer uh to Schwarber was tied to their belief that his addition to the team would help drive ticket sales. They were not expected to pursue other expensive free agents. Mark Feinand of MLB.com wrote, "Shwabber was a perfect fit for both for both the Reds and Pirates lineups. I don't see the Reds pursuing any of the major free agents out there at this point. >> As Lauren from the Batting Around podcast put it, why would you ever ever ever let a statement like that get out to the press? That is pathetic on the part of the Cincinnati Reds. >> Yep. >> That's rough. Uh the fan base can't feel too good about that. I mean, they put all their eggs in the Kyle Schwarber basket apparently. It is interesting. You you mean to tell me like none of the other players out there are worth 5 years and 150 more? >> They're not even really >> they're not getting credited for setting the ground right to to keep Ellie de la Cruz in in Cincinnati, >> right? >> This was they would have gotten Schwarber sold jerseys and been like that's it, you know, that's baseball. Pathetic. >> Yeah, there was one team that did offer Kyle Schwarber the same amount of money as the Phillies. The Baltimore Orioles were the other high team. They offered five and 150. Uh Matt Gelb of The Athletic reported that Schwarber received that offer and went back to the Phillies on Monday night. He had given the Phillies the the the right and the courtesy to match any offer and essentially told them match match any offer and I'm I'm coming back to Philadelphia. And so that's what the Phillies did. The Phillies matched the 5150 from the Orioles and Kyle Schwarber said where do I sign? Uh the Reds were the next closest at 5125. And the Pirates offer was a real offer. I mean four four years for $120 million. That's $30 million average annual value. exactly what the Phillies are are giving Kyle Schwarber just for one less year. They weren't willing to go the fifth year. Um so I I but I mean again the the Pirates were real, >> you know, agree. Okay. >> I don't think it was a real offer because it was an offer to play for the Pirates. >> I think that uh that would mean more to Schwarber and and everything that comes with that would mean more to Schwarber. Yeah, they I mean the way they pitched it again according to Gelb was you get to p work uh you you'll be basically working in a lineup with with um with Paul Ske, you know, the best pitcher basically the best pitcher in baseball and the number one prospect who's going to be coming up and making uh his mark next year. Uh and you're going to be leading this new wave of of Pirates baseball. Clearly not not the pitch that sold Kyle Schwarber. And >> I don't know, man. You're going to be you're going to be coaching Paul skins in the part of his career that will will one day be known as the pre Yankee days and nothing else >> or the pre whatever days because he's one of the players that I've heard is just I does not is so unhappy there is split in the moment he can. >> Yeah. >> Like the idea that that's a draw for anyone to stay there long term just doesn't have a brain, >> right? >> Because they they can't think ahead. And we we had heard also about the Mets interest in Kyle Schwarber. Uh reports from uh Michael Marino that the Mets submitted an offer in the three-year $120 million range for >> not an offer. >> Also 20 million a year but for only three years. So uh I said it's unclear if that was a final offer. >> That's we wanted to be mentioned money. >> Yeah. Yeah. So all told, the Philly's investment in Kyle Schwarber, when you think about his first contract and now his second contract will be $229 million over nine years. You have the 5-year 150 and then the fiveyear uh the four-year $79 million deal he signed in 2022. I I mean it's it's absolutely incredible that he's nearly doubled the money in this contract that he got from the the last contract when he was four years younger coming to Philadelphia. But um one of the things that you've been seeing online, but a number of different places, is why the Phillies feel good about him signing through his age 37 season is that he appears to be defying age. He appears to all of the metrics back up the fact that there's reason to believe Kyle Schwarber is not going to is there's not going to be a big downfall with him as he ages into his 30s. The bat speed, uh the barrel rate, the fact he's hitting he's improved against left-handers. Um he's making more contact in the strike zone. And when you look at his ranks since joining the Phillies, where he ranks in Major League Baseball in some of these categories, he's second in home runs, 210 career home runs, uh, home runs with the Phillies, fourth in RBI's, fifth in runs scored, fourth in walk rate, 10th in slugging, 15th in OPS, and since 2024, his OPS plus is eighth best in baseball. So, um, I I don't know. I mean, just uh, we we've been talking a lot about Kyle Schwarber. I think we all wanted this. Justin, what was your initial reaction, initial feeling? Because I think, you know, there was also some arguments to be made that maybe the offseason would be a little bit more interesting if Schwarber went somewhere else. But at the end of the day, I I found myself not wanting that to happen and wanting him to come back to Philadelphia, even if that means they largely run it. >> It definitely would have been more interesting, but interesting isn't, you know, in fact, it's rarely a positive term when it's talking about your team's off season. Uh I this felt natural. You know, that that's that's ultimately the term I'm going for here. I never thought he was going anywhere else. So, I can't say I felt like relieved because I was never very stressed that he was going to go anywhere else. Um, Natural just kind of feels like this was this was pretty much destined to happen based on everyone's reporting. Every story that came out about him going somewhere else was just like, you know, a a thought exercise done for fun. >> Um, Schwarber, I mean, you know, a DH who can't play outfield, that's not a player who gets paid the way that Kyle Schwarber is getting paid. That's not a guy who who gets to play this role. But here Schwarber is doing it. And as MLB trade rumors pointed out, he gets the biggest guarantee for any free agent aged 33 or older since Josh Donaldson got a $92 million deal with the Twins. And he was still playing aly at third base at that time. And Schwarber, yeah, blows that out of the water. So, you know, uh yeah, I know you mentioned the Mets. I I I we don't have to go in all the way here. Uh but I did want to mention that uh Stephen A. Smith said it was a horrible day for the New York Mets in his by annual segment in which he's forced to talk about baseball, something no one wants and even fewer people asked for. Uh certainly not him. He called he called David Sterns a cheap dude who doesn't care about winning, which tells you he really, you know, >> pays attention. really shuts shuts me up when he got that he had handed that note right before going on the air. Uh and then he said that Kyle Schwarber is underpaid as he read the baseball reference page stats someone printed out for him. But yeah, he said he thought Kyle Schwarber actually deserved more. So, baseball expert Stephen A. Smith totally on his his home, you know, his home paper Phillies side there. Uh but I did I want to mention let's all just enjoy the immediate impact as we always do with Kyle Schwarber in every term uh of this deal. Not any inevitable future issues with the Kyle Schwarber contract. I can't wait for people who are happy today to perch up on their roosts and wait and wait and wait for the first week to go by without Kyle Schwarber hitting a home run so they can ask, "Is this the end? Are the Phillies STRUCK WITH AN WITH AN ALBATROSS CONTRACT?" LONG-TERM DEALS, they fill the heart and poison the mind. But I would say today we can just be happy that a deal like this exists because it means Kyle Schwarber will be here tomorrow. And that's what we wanted the deal to do. >> Yeah. Liz, what was your thoughts and and feelings when uh when Schwarber resigned? What does it mean for this team here in 2026 moving forward, both on the field and off the field? Because he's obviously a huge clubhouse presence. That's one of the major reasons why some of these other teams were pursuing a DH only player entering his mid-30s with such aggressiveness. >> I felt some relief, but only in the way that only in that it the deal was done. I didn't think he was going anywhere. My stress was mostly related to just get it done. You know, I he obviously wants it done. We all want it done. Just do it. And they did it. they just sort of did it on the, you know, one of the first days they could. So, I was relieved that they got it out of the way early. And I mean, for the team, it means everything. Despite the number of high paid players on this team, I there aren't a lot of leaders. Like, there aren't a lot of guys who come across as vocal leaders. Like, Aaron, not really. Um, Bryce Harper doesn't always seem like the most vocal. I mean, >> blood filled. >> Yeah. Sometimes it's just missing a little bit of blood. Sometimes it just he's got >> a lot of blood getting to it. You know what I mean? Sometimes, you know, >> hey, you know what? We said the Phillies needed some new blood going into 2026. >> You know what? He's making that happen for us. >> It's not new blood. It's just recycled blood. But, you know, regardless, I I think uh I think it's recycled blood in in a number of different cases. you know, adopt don't adopt don't shop, John. All right. >> We're still a step away from him being, you know, getting an infusion of someone else's blood, which is something that you can do. Uh, which is something like there's the this dude out there who's trying to defeat the aging process and he does that. Uh, so let's just >> I shouldn't I shouldn't have brought it up. >> No, no, we're not going to say let's keep an eye on that. >> I'm just saying let's keep an eye on that. Not Kyle Schwarber. We're talking about Kyle Schwarber one. It's just normal. >> It's his own. He's staying in his body. >> Tell us about the warm teddy bear feelings you got when news of the Kyle Schwarber signing broke. >> I was embraced by the the warm thoughts of his benevolent presence over the Phillies clubhouse. >> There you go. because there is a because now we know there's a dude in there who just seems like a >> not a father figure just a big brother you know he's got major big brother energy you know he can have fun he could you know enjoy things but he also was stern like hey guys you know be a little quieter you're going to disturb the upstairs neighbors >> I'm going to wake up the baby >> everyone goes a but they listen to him because you know he's a big brother and he isn't making them leave. He's not making them shut up all the way and leave. He's got that power. And I you sense that in Kyle Schwarber. >> To me, this contract and the way they've gone about it and and how much the Phillies wanted to bring him back tells me this is Kyle Schwarber's team now more than it's anybody else's team on the Phillies. More than Bryce Harper, more than Zack Wheeler, more than Trey Turner, who whoever else. this Kyle Schwarber is the face. I think I would even say I think he's become the face of the Phillies. I I I really do at at this point. Maybe Bryce Harper with a monster season this year takes some of that back and and or maybe he doesn't want to. I I don't don't really care either way. Um I but I I will say that I think that this team feels to me like Kyle Schwarber is the heartbeat of the team. We've been saying that all year and they got their heartbeat back. He's this is he's the face of the team right now. He's the heart and soul of this is his team. Uh and until Bryce Harper takes it back and in a good way by having a really productive season and by being a a monster impact on a more regular basis in 2026, which is what we all hope. This is going to be Bryce Harper's team. And that's not a shot at Harper. If he, you know, if he's listening to this, it's not I'm not trying to not trying to call him out or anything. >> Please don't make Scott Boris release a statement towards us. We are it's not that kind of situation. Plus, he seems very busy. >> I I still believe in the Harper. I really do. I I believe So, here's my next question with Kyle Schwarber. He is at 340 career home runs, guys. If he averages 32 home runs a season over the five years of this contract, he will get to 500 career home runs. So, Liz, what are the odds he does that? averaging 32 a season over these next five years gets him to 500 home runs. And obviously that can come with uh more home runs earlier than than later. I think he's got a I think he's going to do it. I mean, I don't know if I'd call it a lock, but I mean >> I think he's got more than a fighting chance of of doing that. I mean, I think it's tough given the possibility of injuries as you get older. That's just something that happens. I mean, but there's a better chance of him not getting injured because uh what he does is swing a bat and run the bases. He doesn't do anything else. And that's the purpose of the DH and that's why he's perfect. He's perfect for that role. >> Yeah, Justin, what do you think, man? >> Yeah, I I would totally agree. I mean, this is part of why you can make arguments like he's getting better and let's invest 5 years in a guy who will be 37 by the end. like you worry a lot less than you do about somebody like an ex guy that they are going to be in all likelihood trying to bring back. Uh somebody who um you know plays has has carved out this key role without even playing one of the positions that's considered a key position. Uh he happens to be you know at a time when the Phillies have decidedly needed power hitting. He has decided he can be like, you know, the most premier power hitter of a generation and be the runner up in uh MVP balloting by being a guy who doesn't play a defensive position. A guy who can win the all-star game MVP without having a position or an at bat in the game. I mean, this is a rare, we've said this in every summation of of Kyle Schwarp, this is a rare rare talent and a rare guy. And so when you have the chance to lock that up, you do that. >> Well, the Phillies, >> you want him to end his career as the Philly if possible. >> I mean, and I imagine that is probably what will end up happening here. Um, >> and and what a statement it is about the Phillies, like you kind of hinted at, John, that this is a place where guys like Cal Schwarber want to presumably end their careers. >> Yeah, it says something that that he gave the Phillies the opportunity to to match. She He's obviously fallen in love with this place, with this team, with these players, with the city, you know, and that's a really you it's it's hard to put a price tag on that. >> Yeah, >> it helps. It helps. >> It does help. It does help. It does help. And I think there's also the unfinished business, you know? I I really do. He's a consc He strikes me as like a conscientious guy who wants to finish the job. And, you know, it's I think it was Travis Saltic. I I saw did an article where he talked about some of the the metrics about how Schwarber will age and all that kind of stuff. And you look at his average exit velocity, 94 miles an hour. Um he had the second best max velocity of his career at 117 miles an hour. Um in the three years of tracking data, Schwber ranks in the 98th or 99th percentile in average bat speed these last three seasons. Um he's improved in his ability to pull balls in the air nearly every year since 2020. And that's a skill that actually gets better as you get older, just generally. And he had one stat since 1990. Schwarber, who had a 150 OPS+ in 2025. That's 50% better than the league average hitter, is one of 10 primary designated hitters since 1990 to have an OPS plus of at least 120 in his age 32 season. I mean, some of these names, Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, Harold Baines, uh there's some other guys in here. David Ortiz, uh there's a couple other Jock Peterson, Travis Hafner, Marcelo Zuna. So, there's a bunch of different names in there, but for those players, Martinez, Thomas Baines, and Ortiz are in the Hall of Fame. So, you can have guys like this sustain their power as they get into their 30s. Uh especially when you have all these other batted ball metrics like the Phillies have on Kyle Schwarber. Um, I I think that's um, you know, it just made all the sense in the world for him to come back. It made more sense for him to return to Philadelphia than to go anywhere else. And that is what ends up happening. Any other thoughts on Schwarber, guys? >> Someday we're going to watch Kyle Schwarber hit his last home run for the Phillies. And uh, before then, there's going to be a ton of them that are meaningful and far and long. And we all know what a Kyle Schwarber home run feels like at this point. And it is a hug that goes 400 ft in the air. And that alone and the moments it will provide and the accolades it could potentially provide are again what make this a I think I'm willing to say this is a universally praised move by the Phillies despite its lack of surprise. I don't even see anybody unlike someone else who got extended today. I don't see anybody even trying to be a sort of contrarian or fight the other angle on the Kyle on the Kyle Schwarber extension or contract. I >> I've seen a couple here and there, but they're all the people who just wanted to blow the team up uh and and don't they think resigning Schwarber there there's I and I've seen some >> What are they saying that players get worse in their age 37 season? >> Impossible. And yeah, I mean there's that there is that I mean that's a calculated risk that you run and and there are people who just didn't want to sign a guy his age to a contract that long for that kind of money. And >> and it's hard to say that that's not true since the last generation of players we watched get to that point. >> Of course it's true. >> Did exactly that. But this I mean this is a slightly different generation. These guys have been doing different things. I mean, they're not I mean, their version of wearing those remember those those weird ne fighting necklaces, those weird like magnetic necklaces they all wore for a while, you know, those were like little things to I completely lost my train of thought. I'm so sorry. >> No, that that players nowadays they train better. They have they have, you know, the >> Yes, thank you. They train better >> and they're like that's it. They're they're not depending on weird pseudocience for the most part um to improve themselves, you know. You know, there's a lot of like things. >> There's a whole department at almost every team now that's just about biomechanics and helping them improve their motion. And you know that's a lot of the things that are being used on them now are not things that old that players from the previous generation had. And so we're going to sort of see what effect that has on players like Bryce Harper and Kyle Schwarber, Ray Turner. These are all guys who have benefited in some way or another from like the modern, you know, modern medicine in sports. And so I'm kind of eager to see how this I mean everyone is, but I'm really eager to see how this turns out in a positive way because I'm hopeful that these things make a difference in some way or another. >> Plus, Hogyfest is Schwarberfest for the next 5 years. That's >> there we go. Reason >> we should have led with. >> So tremendous tremendous signing by the Phillies to bring Kyle Schwarber back home. Now what what's next? Todd Zeleki reported um not really reported but you wrote that the attention turns to catcher JT Real Muto. Dave Neowski expressed optimism that Real Muto could return this could return as well. Maybe not this week but um he says if Real Muto signs the Phillies figure to continue to tweak the lineup possibly by trading talent from the 26-man roster. Uh hello Alec Bow. Hi Matt Strom. source said last month that if the Phillies bring back both Schwarber and Real Muto, they are unlikely to pursue other pricey free agents on the market like Kyle Tucker, Alex Bregman, and Bo Bette. Not surprising. Scott Lawber noted that um if you include Schwarber, the Phillies have $211 million committed to 12 players in 2026. Seven players are projected to make a total of $43 million in arbitration. You add in pre-arb deals, bonuses, benefits, etc., and their CBT payroll, their uh their their tax payroll is about $285 million right now before any other moves. And that's before Real Muto comes on board. Let's say Real Muto signs for 15 mil a season, you're at 300. So, if you're going to stick right around where you were last year at 310, $315 million, it only gives you 10 or $15 million extra dollars to play with here in 2025, unless you move Bow's number off and Stum's number off and anybody else uh that you can that you can shed from the roster if you want to continue to make some moves. All right, the other piece of Phillies news that came down, the Phillies extend Rob Thompson. This is not really a a sign that the Phillies are committed to Rob Thompson for a long time. What this does is effectively prevents him from being a lame duck manager here in 2026. They've done this the last couple of years with Rob Thompson. Um at least they did it last year, a one-year extension. Um that uh basically just gives him a little bit more security. So he is signed now through the 2027 season. A career 346 and 251 career record as Philly's manager. We all remember Tahim taking over in 2022 for a 22 and 29 Phillies team that ended up going 65 and 46 over the final four and a half months. He has improved the team's win total each of the last four seasons in the regular season, 87, 90, 95, and 96 last year, winning the NL East by 13 games over the New York Mets. Todd Zlei noted Thompson has led the Phillies to the second most wins in baseball since he was hired. and his 580 career regular season winning percentage is also second uh in baseball since he was hired behind only the Dodgers and Dave Roberts. It is uh at 580 winning percentage is tops in Philly's history and third among 20 managers all time with at least 315 games managed. Only Charlie Manuel has a higher uh win loss ratio than uh than Rob Thompson in his in his career. So, I know there's people out there, Justin, you mentioned just a second ago that uh when the Rob Thompson news came down, it was less uniformly and universally loved by the Phillies fan base because, you know, I think, as I remember back on the playoffs this last year, Rob Thompson did not have a great series against the Dodgers. A lot of his moves didn't work. And that's on the players as well for execution and whatnot. But, uh, Rob Thompson the last few October has made some high-profile mistakes. It doesn't mean I don't think he's done everything wrong and the players certainly have not come through, but I think that's been leaving a sour taste in Philly's fans mouths is some playoff missteps by Rob Thompson. But all that being said, he has been I think one thing you can say about Rob Thompson, he's an outstanding regular season manager and I think that's what the Phillies are banking on here. >> Sure. I mean, this was a great extension for people who love to say, "I told you so." because they will say it with the first excuse they feel they have to say it. But I think Rob Thompson himself is in the only place he even wants to be managing right now. Remember, he was going to retire after 2022. Now he will manage through 2027. That doesn't happen unless he wants it to. So on the Thompson ends of end of things, he is in the right place. and everything we've heard about his relationship with the players except for one of them. It sounds like very few of them except for one of them want him to be here. Is he the best fit for team chemistry? I think unar unarguably yes. Is he the best fit for a team to win the World Series? Look, you don't hire a manager to win you the World Series. You hire a manager for the same reason you hire every member of your organization from the superstar player to the ticket takers because you believe on some level they give you a better chance to win the World Series. And I don't think there's a manager they could have hired who'd give the Phillies a better chance to win a World Series than Rob Thompson. And for anybody who's down on him and ready to pin the failure of 2026 on him by the end of April, look, if you're if you let a guy whose team became a playoff caliber team, not the season he took over, but the instant he took over and remained one the entire time he was their manager. I'm not sure you're legally allowed to let that guy go, to let that guy be a lame duck, even if his bullpen decisions cost the team wins or his player first approaches to a fault. You know, at times, you know, my biggest complaint about Rob Thompson, he still seems to be getting his strategic legs under him, which you're like, you have so much experience, man. I'm not sure I'm not sure it should feel like that. But my favorite thing about him is that that part of him seems to be the part he struggles with the most. He does everything else the manager needs to do pretty much without even having to think about it. You can win a World Series with that manager. He might cost you one. He might cost you more than one, but you can win with him. And the opportunity to swap him out for a guy who is an even more perfect fit doesn't exist. So, I challenge you to name someone who' be better at managing these Phillies in 2025 than the guy who's been managing them uh as a playoff team since the second he got here and never stopped. You know, you can you can give the credits the give the player that players the credit for that too, but like Rob Thompson has overseen a very successful four years in Philadelphia and that's not because it's not he he doesn't get no credit for that. And if if he costs you a World Series, it means you made it to the World Series. If he costs you, you know, a playoff series win for whatever reason, you did make it there and he is part of the reason. So, it was worth remembering that at least for the, you know, the handful of voices who are angry about this, you know, cuz he frustrates all of us. But just like you said, Justin, by and large, he's the best guy for the team. He wants to be here. the players want him here. You know, the players who will be in the clubhouse next season most likely uh they will want him here. So, yeah, like there this is a a nononsense decision. The Phillies pretty much had to do it. And at this point, I think if they wanted to let him go, they're not going to do it in the middle of the season. They'll wait till the end of the season and let him retire, >> right? And that's what would happen. He would he would retire. Um the Phillies would let him know, we're not going to add another year next off season and and that would be it. And I think um that's why I think it's interesting Don Mattingley appears to be ready to join the team as the Phillies bench coach. It would seem that um if there is an offramp that Don Maddingley would would be an an option there would be somebody that you would that would make a little bit of sense. But I don't think anybody is thinking that way. I think um you know I think I I'd be I'll be very interested to see um if any of the decision-m uh is a little bit different with an experienced manager and bench coach kind of sitting with Rob Thompson in the dugout a little bit. You know, I I don't know. I mean, Don Mattingley's he never won anything. I mean, he's been to the playoffs a few times, but you know, he never won a World Series as a manager. So, um it's not like they're bringing on some kind of like two-time World Series champion to um put the heat on on on Rob Thompson. You could argue Rob Thompson's had just as much managerial success as Don Mattingley has had based off of all the times he's gone to the playoffs. So, um, but I do think, you know, Yeah. Go ahead. >> No, not not a real thought. Uh, just from Gerardi to Thompson to a couple of Matting Leadings, the Phillies are a very Yankees organization uh in their leadership roles the past era. >> That's true. Um, all right. So, I mean, and again, if they were going to let Rob Thompson go, they would have done it right after the season. So, the fact they didn't makes this not surprising news that they've added a one an extra year to Rob Thompson's contract. So, um just worth mentioning. He wasn't going to go anywhere anyway. Uh and now this just gives him a little bit more job security here for for 2026. >> So, you all know all that stuff we were talking about was always going to happen. >> Yep. >> So, that's that was forget everything you heard the past couple of weeks. This was the only way this is going to end. >> No one's ever gonna go back and listen to those guys. No one's going back. >> Any any intrigue you hear is completely manufactured. Go ahead, John. >> Totally made up. Totally made up. Uh last thing uh and we'll do this uh real quick. Only one other big uh signing so far here as of Tuesday night. The Dodgers signed Edwin Diaz, former Mets closer that going to the Dodgers on a three-year $69 million deal. Now, the Mets have already signed Devin Williams uh to be a late inning option for them, and I think that they were believing that they would also be able to bring Edwin Diaz back to the team to continue on as their closer, but he is not coming back. Instead, going to LA on a three-year $69 million deal. Uh the Mets were also said to kind of be sniffing around the Kyle Schwarber uh area and they they apparently made a de made a contract offer but losing out on Schwarber and losing Edwin Diaz. It seems like they had the rug pulled out from under them uh in this with the Edwin Diaz signing. Bad day for the Mets. You hate to see it here this early in the offse. Oh, you do. It's just it's it's a heartbreaking scene. Um, but yeah, Justin, it it really did seem like they thought they were gonna have a chance to bring him back and he was just like, "Nope, I'm gone." >> The Mets went out of their way to say after signing Devin Williams that like, "Oh, we still consider it possible to bring back Edwin Diaz as well." I mean, we talked about that being in a position of power on Absolutely Hammered, talking about how the Mets were viewing it as like, look, worst case scenario, we have Devin Williams. So, you know, maybe I I I think it was on I think it was on the record that yeah, they were interested in bringing Diaz back. This wasn't just like a okay well whatever kind of situation. And according to New York Daily News Mets beat writer Abby Mstraio, Edwin Diaz was also interested in coming back to the Mets at one point. So I thought a the thought that came into my mind immediately was the from 30 Rock when Tracy Morgan takes the leash off his dog for the first time and it runs away and he goes, "Boy, he he did not want to live here." And that's what it kind of seems like here. Edwin Diaz just took off for Los Angeles as soon as he was free of the Mets. Uh you're going to hear those within Mets circles of support say that well if the Mets had wanted to keep him, they would have kept him. I disagree. I think we have a pretty good idea of how happy a place the Mets locker room is right now. And I think choosing to get away from it in free agency makes total sense on its, you know, even if you're getting offered similar pay. I think a guy who's like, "Yeah, I mean, if I can get good money somewhere else, I'll choose somewhere else." The Mets have money. Sure. You know, that's what we were scared of when Steve Cohen took over. Unlimited money, but there's no reason to credit them with some sort of magical loving environment or positive baseball experience because apparently they can't really offer you that. And honestly, this might be kind of the end of these Mets. Nemo is gone. Diaz is gone. They just put David Peterson on the market or at least said he was available for trades. I don't think Peter Lonzo's coming back. I hope I think Peter Lonzo is going to like Baltimore or something. >> I I think the I think these Mets as we know them are kind of unraveling. >> I mean, Juan Sodto is still there, but Francisco Lindor is getting a little bit older. You're running out of his prime. It could be. Could be. And you got these young Bets pitchers. We'll see. We'll see. But you're definitely right. It's a changing team. It's going to be a very It's going to be a different looking team. That's a team that's doing things that's doing things differently and not on purpose in in a couple different cases here. >> I would honestly say those four guys I mentioned, if all four of them aren't there anymore, that is a new era of of Mets baseball on it own. >> I think that's fair. Um, all right, guys. Any final thoughts uh before we wrap up? Liz, uh any anything to to to any any leftovers uh from from the first couple days of the winter meetings to talk about before we uh get out of here? For final thoughts? >> Sure. Uh, the fall 2025 baseball research journal has been published. It's my first issue. It, uh, is hitting mailboxes later this week and early next week. Uh, if you are a member of the Society for Maker and Baseball Research, or if you're my parents, uh, you'll be receiving a copy of that in the mail. >> Uh, if you'd like to purchase it, you can go to saber.org/publications. Uh you can publish the you can purchase the ebook um and you can find articles on there starting next week. >> And just a reminder folks for those who don't know sabbr.org um for Society for American Baseball Research. Uh Justin, final thoughts? I don't know how much of a joke you think it is, but I think it's not one at all that the Pope definitely finagled the MLB draft lottery to allow the Chicago White Socks to come out on top. I think that's I years from now when you're talking about what conspiracy theories do you think are real? 100% convinced. I have no evidence. I have the same evidence you have, but I'm I'm 100% convinced. >> The Phillies will of course be uh I believe not picking in the first round. So that's correct. >> Not really news for us other than, you know, the implications of the conspiracy that I just unraveled for all of >> Listen, the only thing I have to say is that the Catholics are back in charge there. The American Catholics now have a voice. And in that I was born Catholic and got pretty much all the sacraments and am no longer practicing, I still care about that deeply. Well, good on the Pope to do what needed to be done for the Chicago White Socks. >> Really, no one else could have stepped in for the White Socks. >> I mean, there is one other thing he can do for the White Socks >> regarding their owner, but I don't think the I don't think the Almighty has given the Pope uh clearance to kill at will, unfortunately. So, >> man, the podcast took a dark turn here on the Kyle Schwarber emergency pod. I'll tell you what, >> can we find that? Can we find that out for the next one? >> I'd actually like to know if the pope has has a license to kill. >> Check on the bylaws, but >> I could do that for you. I know where to look. >> I mean, I think it depends on the dascese, but you know, we'll just we'll we'll let that hang until we until we meet again. Um, not expecting any more huge news for the Phillies here at at the winter meetings, but if something else big happens, some combination of people will uh we'll be back to uh to break it all down for you. And if not, until then, we will we'll talk to you at the next round table um at the end of the weekend uh to uh discuss what we what we learned uh from this week here uh with the uh winter meetings in Orlando. Um, just a reminder folks that if you are listening to this podcast and you'd like to instead start watching our podcast, you can head on over to the WHY YouTube channel and subscribe to the WHY YouTube channel. 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