Eric Trump- -Bitcoin Will Replace Gold

So ABTC's, their job today is what? We're mining Bitcoin every single day. So do you think the CIA is Satoshi and the creator of Bitcoin? I can tell you American Bitcoin is not mining Bitcoin for the CIA. This much I can tell you. Give me an argument against the quantum computers are going to figure out the code and hack it. Tell me why I don't need to worry about that. A couple, this topic has come up a lot recently actually. Or good luck, the IRS is going to come knock on your door and throw you in jail for money laundering even though it's an asset that you own. You look back in three years, in five years, in 10 years, these are going to be the rails that the world operates on. What's the chance you're wrong though, Eric? What's the chance it's not parabolic? It's not going to freaking one million. You have this new version of gold that exists, but what's better than gold is not just it's more scarce and it's fixed, but it also can transact. Bitcoin, an asset that's going up again, 70% historically year, year over year. The banks can't steal it. The government can't steal it. You can ledger it. What will the price of Bitcoin be? In a four-year period of time, I think it will be a thousand. Guys, today I'm with two incredible entrepreneurs, Eric Trump, Asher. These guys are working with American Bitcoin. A lot of exciting things happen. I'm actually an investor with the company. I asked Eric to come in and talk about what you guys are doing with ABTC. I'm going to ask some questions because I don't know all about this and I'm learning, but I'm very, very curious about the Bitcoin space. Eric, you've done a bunch. This is your, what, third or fourth project? Yeah, so we've been in the Bitcoin space ever since we started getting debanked. You and I have talked a lot about the weaponization of banks. We got into cryptocurrency and I absolutely love Bitcoin. I think it's the greatest asset there's been over the last 10-year period of time. It's grown roughly 70% a year, year over year over the last decade. It's unbelievable. I think it's the greatest hedge against hard assets. So you're a hard asset guy. I'm a hard asset guy, but I think it's great. Hard assets, so explain to the audience. Hard assets mean what to you? Hard assets, i.e. buildings like this. We're seeing a commercial building right now. Congratulations, you can't move this building. You can't take this building and bring it to London. This building could get hit by a tornado. It could get hit by a hurricane. Covered, covered. All of a sudden, you could have bad politics in a state. You could have a mass exodus, almost like what you saw in New York. And hard assets are tangible. Yeah. They're illiquid. You know, they're fixed in a certain location. Bitcoin, which we really consider digital gold, kind of fixes all of those problems, right? It's immediately liquid. It's 24 hours a day. You consider that a hard asset as well? I've come to the point where I consider Bitcoin to be a hard asset. It's a digital asset. But I almost view it as a hard asset. Hard because it's limited. And it uses energy to be mined. So you have real data centers that are essentially consuming power from the grid and running compute to securitize a network. So you actually have to spend a ton of money to produce every coin as well. You can't just go and print it because some person decides, I want to go print more tokens. And I think this is a problem with guys my age and people that don't understand. They're like, yeah, but I can't see it. I can't touch it. How's it real? That was always the problem for all real estate guys, right? Yeah, exactly. It's actually more real than anything else. Listen, Grant, if gold ever went to $20,000 an ounce, you would take down the column right behind me right now. We would pull gold out of that column, right? Elon Musk would send a spaceship up to Mars and he would find gold on Mars. There's always going to be a surplus quantity if that was ever happened, right? You're saying if the price of that went up, we would find gold? You're always going to explore more, right? As the price goes up, you're going to always go deeper into the earth. You're going to go into a harder location. You're always going to explore more. But gold would be considered a hard asset, right? Bitcoin is the only commodity that you literally cannot get more of, right? It's capped at $21 million and everybody around the world wants it. Sovereign wealth funds wants it. The wealthiest people want it. It's tradable 24 hours a day. You can put it on a flash drive. You can go anywhere in the world, right? You can move it. Try and move a couple of gold through Miami airport. Good luck. They're going to throw you in jail. The IRS is going to come knock on your door and throw you in jail for money laundering, even though it's an asset that you own. It's just Bitcoin is digital gold. I think it's a better version of gold. And that's why it's become one of the greatest stores of value anywhere in the world. Yeah, go ahead. I think too is if you think about for folks trying to conceptualize what is this thing. So I'll tell you a funny story. A couple of years ago, when we had our early investors, when we first started a company called US Bitcoin Corp, that turned into HotAid. And we'll talk about how that all connects with American Bitcoin. But he called me one day. It was like a year and a half after investing. Old guy, real estate guy. And literally a year and a half after investing, he calls me. He's like, hey, Asher, quick question. When you guys are mining Bitcoin, are you getting any physical Bitcoin that come out? And I was like, oh, boy. You've been investing in this for a year and a half. And I was like, I called him. I was like, because he was like, when I see these- He was an investor with you. Yeah. And he's like, when I see these photos on all these articles, you see these coins. Yeah, exactly. Like, is there real coins that come? I'm like, no, it's all digital. And so I think what's good to kind of think through and understand was like, when Bitcoin was created, there were a couple key kind of founding principles. One is, there's no centralized authority that governs how it works. There's the rules that are transcribed, like the 12 Commandments. And so- Where are you from? What's your nationality? Half Israeli, half Chinese. So you got a little bit of a mix. And so there are the rules that- That means he's very intelligent. Very intelligent. So there are the rules that are transcribed. And essentially what the rules are with this, there are only 21 million coins ever produced. And it's a deflation asset rather than an inflation asset. A deflation asset. Yeah. So what I mean by that is, how do those 21 million coins come into the world? Today, there are not 21 million coins out there. Right. There's less. And so- Probably four or five million lost because- There's loss, but it's also there's coins that haven't been produced yet. And so like, how do you produce coins? So when Bitcoin is first created, there are no coins out there. There was only ever a cap of 21 million, but there were zero. And then so they had this thing called mining. And what mining was, essentially, you get a bunch of computers and you securitize the network. And so what does that mean is, right now there's millions and millions of computers around the world. And what they do is, if you transfer Bitcoin to Eric, all of those computers have to agree that that happened. And then they go on to the next transaction. How did they agree it happened? I'm going to send him something to his- So basically- To his wallet. Yes. His electronic wallet that's not a real wallet. Correct. So there's two things. How do you confirm that specific transaction? Then how do you confirm the historical transaction? So one is, how do you confirm that specific transaction? If you transfer to his wallet, you basically are sending the coins to his wallet. And then it's getting inked into the ledger. So that's why it's not your keys, not your wallet is the whole thing, which is like, you have to control where your Bitcoin is and how it's transferred. But the other key thing is, who stops the network from going back and saying, you know what? Five transactions ago, you actually didn't send a Bitcoin to Eric, you sent it to me. How do you prevent that from happening? And so that's what all these computers do. They say, we are verifying- Individual, independent computers- Around the whole world. These people don't even know one another. Correct. Around the whole world. This is an Ethernet kind of- That's right. Not agreed upon, but agreed upon. But agreed upon, because everyone's saying, you know what? Over the last series of thousands or millions of transactions, this is what the trail of transactions are. So no one can come in and go change history because it's locked in. And so if you think about that overall scale of the network of computers today, the amount of energy consumed to actually run the network is more than some small countries. Yeah, you're talking about energy now. You're talking about electricity. The electricity that goes into the data centers to run the computers, right? And so why I called it a deflation asset rather than inflation is, every four years, there's a thing called the halving, which is, right now, about 450 Bitcoin get produced every single day. Every day? Every day. And then at the halving, that's going to drop down to 225. It was at 900 before. And then it'll go 115 or 130, whatever. Exactly. And it keeps on dropping and dropping. At 60 until it's probably a half of half. Exactly. And then it will all go all the way to 2140, and then 21 million Bitcoin is all that's in the world. And so the interesting thing is, what mining is and why there's this kind of physical asset is because in order to produce a Bitcoin, you need these computers to actually verify the network. In order to have these computers, you have to build large data centers. In order to power the data center and the computers, you need large access to energy. And so without all of this infrastructure— But all this was built without data centers up to now. No, they— We don't have centralized data centers. We have. We have, like American Bitcoin, we have massive data centers in the U.S. that run this compute. We'll send you some of these photos, but, I mean, we have— Maybe I should be investing in the data centers right now. We have— And over-invest it. No, ABTC owns them. Oh, OK. So ABTC mines Bitcoin as well. OK. And ABC, like one of our facilities, it's five football fields long. That's the building. Where's it located? Amarillo, Texas. OK, I know Amarillo. And so— Because that's the cheapest energy. Yeah. All the computers are liquid-cooled. I mean, these are the most efficient computers anywhere in the world. These are basically empty storage rooms. And so think about it. Those are the facilities that are located all around the world that are guarding, you know, your asset, right? And that's the Bitcoin. So let's just say something tragically happened at one of the facilities. Guess what? The redundancy of the entire network would spread it out where all the other networks would guard— would guard your asset. And that's why people love it. But again, it's capped at that 21 million. And so— But just help me out here. The first guys that started doing this Bitcoin thing, they didn't have data centers. They had computers. They had a computer, which was a data center. Correct. So what happened was— So if you think about— And they're sitting there doing what? They're putting code in? They have this code called SHA-256, which is the encryption algorithm. And so instead of— And they're doing this for what? I'm sorry. Yeah, of course. I'm so ignorant about this, but I think there's a lot of people out there like me. So if you think about the evolution— And this is the evolution of chips, right? So essentially, before, everyone was doing the same thing. But instead of data centers, everyone was doing it out of their computers. So you can mine Bitcoin from your computers. Then people said, you know what? Is there a better form of computer that can run this algorithm faster? So they actually then went to GPUs. GPUs are what run AI today. And so then one of our co-founders, Mike, he started mining way back. He went to every single Best Buy, bought all of the gaming GPUs he could. And that's how he started mining Bitcoin back in 2013, 2014. And he's mining the Bitcoin because he gets— Because those computers are running the encryption algorithm. He gets rewarded? He gets rewarded Bitcoin for driving that compute. So the way you think about how mining makes money is, every day there's only 450 Bitcoin released into the world. How that's released is based on who is contributing the compute into the network. So let's just say, make it easy. If one unit of computer equated to one unit of compute, then you say, all right, there's 450 computers. There's 450 Bitcoin. That means everyone gets one Bitcoin. If now you have 900 computers and 450 Bitcoin, everyone gets half a Bitcoin. And so the more efficient your computer is, the more Bitcoin that you get. And so that's why you went from kind of people doing CPU computers to GPUs. Right. And then now they have these ASICs, which are these single-purpose computers that can do nothing but SHA-256 for Bitcoin. And so it's very specialized, but it can— All they're doing 24-7 is what? SHA-256, verifying the Bitcoin network. That's it. The computers are incapable of doing anything else. They can only do SHA-256. Okay, so how do you guys come up with American Bitcoin? A, B, T, C is the stock. It's trading for $7, $6. What's it trading for today? Somewhere between $5, $6, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I wanted to do a data center play. And we had a company called American Data Center. So met Asher. We became best friends almost instantly. And Hut8, which is our sister company, and it's something that Asher runs every day, they're incredible at the data center game. In fact, this guy's stock, I can't— He's got blush because he's too humble. What's Hut8 trading at? I think we're at $50 something, $40, $50 something. And you opened at what? So when I took over, we were at like $6.77, so 10x. This is about 18 months ago. So Asher's got some of the best performance. I like 10x people. He's doing unbelievable. But he's like, you know, we both had the love for Bitcoin. And it's like, why don't we take this infrastructure that we have for Hut8, and why don't we go down the Bitcoin route? We can mine Bitcoin more efficiently than anybody in the world. We have some of the cheapest energy anywhere in the world, right, in West Texas. Every day, we're mining Bitcoin— At Hut8? No, at ABTC. At ABTC. The way to think about this is this— So it was sitting there. ABTC's sitting there. No, so yeah, so the way to think about their origin story was this. Hut8 has been around since 2017. OK. OK, and Hut8 was actually one of the first public companies in the world to hold Bitcoin on the balance sheet. And so Hut8 was a business that had Bitcoin on the balance sheet. It had this mining business, and it had this data center business. And obviously, the data centers consume a lot of energy. Backtrack about a year ago, a year and a half ago, we started getting all these investors that bought our public stock and said, hey, we think there's this massive AI wave. You guys need to build data centers for AI as well, not just for Bitcoin. And so we started having this conflict of, we have a group of shareholders that just want us to do data centers, AI energy. And then we have a group of shareholders that have been with us forever that just believe in Bitcoin, right? And so, OK, long-term, these are two different types— And they're giving you input how? They're public shareholders in our public company, right? And so they're giving input on like, hey, why don't you guys spend less money on Bitcoin, more money on data centers, et cetera? And so we said, naturally, like, owning Bitcoin is a much more volatile asset than owning infrastructure, data centers, power. And we said, all right, the cost of capital is different because when you have more volatility, your cost of capital is higher, but you can make more money. And then when you do real estate, your cost of capital is lower. And so you can kind of invest for longer returns, right? And so basically, when we started getting together, Eric was starting American Data Centers, and he was like, hey, what are you guys doing? I was like, look, we have this data center versus we're building. Like, we started talking about Bitcoin. We started talking about like infrastructure and real estate. And I think he shared with you— This is outside of HUD-8. We started talking about these ideas. And I was like, I think there's a world where we want to spin out the computers and create a company that's solely Bitcoin. HUD-8 just becomes the infrastructure company. And American Bitcoin can be this pure-play Bitcoin company that mines Bitcoin. Because they're sister companies, the economics are vertically integrated. And so then the basic idea— So there's a contract. There's an agreement between ABTC and HUD-8. Yeah, and think about it on the real estate side. You have the management business and the real estate business. It's like, that's the same idea. I get it. I get it. Yeah, exactly. And so that's what formed ABTC. Yeah, so ABTCs, their job today is what? What are they doing every day? We're mining Bitcoin every single day, right? So every single day, we're mining Bitcoin for roughly 50% of what Bitcoin trades at right now. So Bitcoin's at about $110,000. And we're mining, every single day, we're mining a lot of Bitcoin for roughly 50%. I mean, right now, we're about 2.5% of the world's total mining based on exa-hash. We're mining a little over 10 Bitcoin a day. So I probably have some of your Bitcoin. You definitely have some of our Bitcoin. As an investor, you definitely have some of our Bitcoin. I'm paying double. But it allows us to do two things, Grant. But we also don't sell the Bitcoin. The Bitcoin we mine, we hold it all. We don't just grow and grow. You own it as a shareholder. You're not buying it in the markets. But I don't have any of your Bitcoin. Correct. Because we're holding it. So how much, can you tell me what you have now? The beautiful part about this model is, on one sense, we're mining Bitcoin every single day. 365 days a year, we're mining Bitcoin. And we're doing so at, again, roughly $0.50, right? At the same time, we're going out there and we're acquiring Bitcoin, right? So we believe in the asset. This is, again, the asset that's grown 70% a year, year over year. I don't need to convince you of Bitcoin. You're clearly a believer. But what it allows us to do, unlike every other strategy company, it allows us to dollar-cost average down the Bitcoin. So everybody, if they're going out and buying Bitcoin, they have to buy at fair market value. Because guess what? That's what you're buying on the street. We might have to buy this at fair market value if we go out and purchase. But then every single day, the Bitcoin that we're mining for $0.50 is actually pulling down, you know, in dollar-cost averaging down our Bitcoin holdings. And that's how we can accrete value to shareholders. So what do you own? How much is on the balance sheet? Are we allowed to publicly report that? Not in the most recent figure, but a couple thousand. And so we started the company April 1st. So in less than a year. How did you guys go public so fast, dude? Like, it was like five months. I got to tell the idea story. So the head of the NASDAQ, who's a friend and wonderful, she goes, this is the fastest go public. It was five months. From inception of company to listing. From inception of company to listing was, what, five months? Six months, yeah. And it was five months and two days, if I remember exactly. But they go, we've never seen anything like this, right? And so- Speed and power, man. We went from zero to a five plus billion dollar company, literally, in a five month period of time. And we've got such a cool story. I mean, what we're doing on the mining side is incredible. When you see these facilities, and you would love this as a real estate guy, right? You and I are the guys that kind of walk into old industrial buildings and you go, this place is dirty and it's beaten up. But man, can I see the value in this place? And we could make it exceptional. I can take that I-beam that's 150 years old and I can make that a cool feature that goes across this room. You walk into these mining facilities and you see the racks. I mean, I think it's 500 yards of the most powerful supercomputers in the world that are all underwater. I mean, all the chips are underwater, right? They're all liquid, you know, all liquid- I gotta come see this, guys. You gotta come see this. The energy consumption in these facilities is unbelievable. And all that facility does every single day is mine a serious amount of Bitcoin. I think it's actually the largest facility, one of our facilities is the largest facility anywhere in the world under one roof that mines Bitcoin. But it's space- So you own that real estate? You own it or you lease it? So that's the sister company. So American Bitcoin owns all the servers in there. Got it. Hud 8 invests in all the real estate and infrastructure. I got it. And so the idea is because American Bitcoin, if you buy a server, you want to try to get a payback in like two years. You don't get two-year paybacks in real estate, right? Like that's not the business model because you can depreciate it for much longer term. Right, right. And so the idea is Hud 8 drives cost of capital lower. It invests in all of this. It leases it to a much cheaper rate to ABTC than it's getting and investing in the chips directly. And so ABC's business is very simple. Invest in servers that produce Bitcoin at a discount to the market. And then when you have cheap cost of capital, buy Bitcoin. And so we're accumulating Bitcoin- And the cheap cost of capital would come from where? So ATMs? So yeah, because- I guess you're- Convertible notes, ATMs. Because of the public markets, we can sell the volatility of our stock and people will give us value for that. We can drive the cost of that capital down and then we can go buy Bitcoin in the market. All while keeping the lowest SG&A you can possibly have because you have two sister companies and there's a lot of redundancy between- Correct. SG&A, your management fees, your overhead costs. Exactly. If you look at us versus any other miner on the street, I think you're going to see a massive difference. We want to be buying the asset that we believe is going to appreciate. We don't want to be spending that on management fees and SG&A. That was the key because- So there's other mining companies in the world. There's other treasure companies in the world. And so when we formed American Bitcoin, we really kind of took an approach of like, what does the market actually need and want? And our thought process was, if people are buying a Bitcoin company, why are they doing it? Because they think they could potentially get a better return than buying Bitcoin itself, right? Because if you buy Bitcoin, you get the appreciation of deep- But I'm stuck with that value. I have no way to control- There's no Bitcoin yield. There's no way to grow that. That's right. And so we're like, let's create a company. And that's what we call American Bitcoin, a Bitcoin accumulator, which is instead of earnings per share in like a typical public company, we look at Bitcoin per share. Oh, nice. So how many Bitcoin per share do you own? We got to add that, Ryan. And how do we increase that yield over time, right? And so that's our goal every single day. How do we grow more Bitcoin per share? So an owner of ABTC, regardless of stock price, will own more Bitcoin day over day over day through all these different mechanisms of mining Bitcoin, buying Bitcoin, et cetera. So what's the accumulation target? Is there one? Do you think like that? Like, hey, we want to get to this many, do you? So part yes, part no, yes. What? I mean, when Eric started, he's like, hey, if we're going to do this, we're going to be one of the biggest in the world. Yeah, I mean- Right? Otherwise, we're not going to do this. Ryan, I think you know that's in our genetics. It's in your genetics as well. If you're going to run a race, you better win the damn race, right? But there's two races to win. There's the how many do you have on your balance sheet? And what is the cost per Bitcoin on your balance sheet, right? And I think we're going to win that second race. I've never been more confident of anything in my life. I truly, truly believe with all my heart we're going to win the second race because- The cost to drive it. The cost in the Bitcoin per share. Because that's the nuance here is what we saw was a lot of people try to focus on just the vanity metric of how big can you get. And then shareholders lose money because you're diluting in order to get there. And that's been a big problem with a lot of these companies. Yeah, so explain that. So guys are going public. Yeah. They're hitting the pipe. Correct. Which is very expensive. Correct. Right? Very diluted. Yep. And then they're raising- You want to explain to the audience what the pipe is? Yeah, so basically the pipe is like a- You just went public. Imagine your company just went public and you have enough shares moving in the marketplace. Yeah. And so basically you're raising this money because you're telling the world, hey, instead of 500 Bitcoin, now I own 5,000 Bitcoin or 10,000 Bitcoin. And shareholders are like, oh, right. That's amazing. But the question is- The number of shares. The number of shares increases so large. Yeah. Right? And so let's just say you'll- And I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah, of course. But I'm just trying to- Yeah. So let's say the company had a million shares. Yes. And then you did the pipe. Yes. For a billion dollars. Whatever, I'm just making up a number. Yeah. The number of shares now is going to go from a million shares to maybe 10 million shares. Right. So my share becomes worth one-tenth. Right. And then the question is, do you get 10 times the amount of Bitcoin or not? And that word is accretive, right? That's right. Was it accretive, as you'll hear? That's right. And so I think that's the issue with all these companies is- So was it accretive? Was it accretive? So ours have been accretive so far. Every single time we've raised money, our Bitcoin per share has gone up. And that's the metric we- Greater than the dilution. Greater than dilution it brings. Because if- So the exact example you said, which is if we had 100 Bitcoin, with 100 shareholders, everyone gets one Bitcoin. Now if we have 10,000 Bitcoin, but we have a million shareholders, everyone gets 0.1, right? And so that's where the metric we look at is not just how many Bitcoin we have, but what is that Bitcoin per share. And every time we do a transaction, is that increasing or not? And the lucky thing with us is, even if we're not raising money, we're mining every single day. You're mining for cheaper than everybody in the marketplace. Exactly. Roughly 50%, right? Michael Saylor's buying Bitcoin. So if we decide to not go out and buy Bitcoin, and the numbers slows in this public filing, but you're adding a substantial amount of Bitcoin every single day to the bottom line of a company, and doing it for 50% discounts before you actually go out and buy. Now you still want to go out when you can and when the market's right and actually buy, because we're a big believer that Bitcoin's going to continue to skyrocket. If we didn't believe that Bitcoin over the next five years was going to absolutely fly and go parabolic, we shouldn't be in this business. We believe in the asset with every ounce of our heart. What's the chance you're wrong though, Eric? What's the chance it's not parabolic, it's not going to freaking one million? So let me zoom out and put on my other hat for a second. I'm in every country around the world. Literally, I mean, I say every facetiously, but everywhere. This year, how many countries this year? A lot. I mean, listen, I've got 20 plus jobs around the world in virtually every continent. We know all the top companies. We own all the, you know, know all the top family offices. We know virtually every government wants it. Every wealthy individual wants it. Half of the Fortune 500 companies. I mean, you can't open up Twitter on a given day and not see another major American company that's putting serious amounts of Bitcoin on the balance sheet. So you have all of that. So you've got the compression all around the world where people want it. Then by the way, go over to Asia, right? Everybody in Asia wants it. Everybody in South America wants it. The U.S. dollars, the United States is almost like a place where it needs it, but probably needs it the least, right? I mean, imagine living in Africa. At least because. Imagine living in Zimbabwe. I always used to say Zimbabwe. Where their currency sucks. Yeah, got it. You know, there's massive fraud. There's massive abuse. There's rampant everything. Public corruption. Would you rather own their local currency, which you probably couldn't even tell me what it was, or would you rather own Bitcoin, an asset that's going up, again, 70% historically year over year? You'd obviously rather own Bitcoin. The banks can't steal it. The government can't steal it. You can ledger it. So you have all of that happening right now, and that's happening all around the world and is absolutely explosive. In the public markets, with family offices, with sovereign wealth funds, with major countries. I mean, a serious person in one major country told me that all the energy that isn't going to cool a city, right? And this is a city in the Middle East. In the middle of the winter, right? In the summer, they have to use the energy for cooling. During the winter, they use all that energy to mine Bitcoin, right? So I mean, this is happening all over the world. But then look at the public markets. Now all of a sudden, you can buy APTC on the NASDAQ. You can buy it through it, right? You don't need to have a ledger. You don't need to do it through DeFi. You don't need to do it through the conventional crypto rails. Fidelity's offering it now. Schwab's offering it. JP Morgan just announced that they're doing it. BlackRock's doing it. You can buy one of 10 different spot ETFs that all are invested in Bitcoin. You can buy it into 401ks. And they import to that. You can buy it into Roth IRAs. There are 100 different ways you can get exposure to Bitcoin. That isn't a thumb drive that lost so many people. People didn't understand blockchain technology. People didn't understand DeFi. People didn't understand how to move money, right? Really smart young guys were really into it. They figured it out. They made it work. And it became explosive under those rails. But now it's becoming really explosive. And if you look at the crypto industry, right, it's growing faster than the internet. Faster than the internet grew in the 90s, right? Right now, we're on the one yard line. And you watch what happens. Everybody wants crypto. Everybody wants Bitcoin. So will you just, for the audience, explain to them what you just went over about the keys? Because it's not easy to hold your own Bitcoin. And I think what you just said was... No, now it's very easy to own your Bitcoin. Historically, it was harder, right? Historically, you had something that was called a ledger. It's effectively a USB drive. You have certain codes. It has seed phrase. And it was a wallet. It was your wallet. And you could buy and sell cryptocurrency on that using DeFi. DeFi is decentralized finance, right? And CeFi is centralized finance. It lost a lot of people. You'd have to go to Aave. You'd have to go to Metamask. You had to have browser... Even starting a Coinbase account is very, like... You had to have browser extensions. Well, now, honestly, Coinbase is simple. People are popping up Coinbase accounts in five minutes. Robinhood accounts, right? Kraken accounts, finance accounts. Yeah, yeah. And so that's become great. But for all the people who simply have a 401k, for all the people who own one share of stock at Schwab or at Fidelity or at JP Morgan or anywhere else, congratulations, you can go buy ABTC on the NASDAQ right now that's traded every single day. And that can be your exposure. Go get 100 shares right now. I can say that right as an investor. Go get 100 shares right now. Okay, it'll cost you 600 bucks. So it's easier than ever before. Yeah. And I have the exposure to the Bitcoin. And I have the exposure to the mining. And I'm liquid. That's right. Exactly. So I think all of this seems new. But really, it's not. The way that I always think about and conceptualize it is, if you look back in human history, gold was this kind of store of value, right? Because people could find it. Which I've never understood, by the way. Right, but people could... I've never understood the concept of gold, keeping it. Yeah, and people... Nobody's ever offered me any. And people found it. They kept it. And then the US dollar was gold-backed at one point, right? So the US dollar was basically like a gold staple coin, if you think about it that way. And then it was like, because gold is hard to transact. And so you had this currency that you could transact and obviously ended up getting de-pegged. And then now the US dollar is backed by the US government. And that's kind of the business, right? But if you think about Bitcoin, it takes that same idea, which is you have this valuable thing that's scarce. I mean, to Eric's point, gold really isn't that scarce because if you have enough money, you can go get more. No, you can find more. You'll always find more. And so this actually takes that idea, refines it better in a digital world that we live in today. I think if anyone were to argue the world is not digital, how many times do you pick up your phone every single day? Like you live in this digital world, right? And so now you have this new version of gold that exists. But what's better than gold is not just it's more scarce and it's fixed, but it also can transact. I mean, we sent $200 million at, it was like 11 p.m. on a Tuesday night. And it was between one of our wallets to another wallet because we were kind of- Banks are closed. We were able to do a test transaction. We were able to send. It was funny because one of these like whale accounts was like, someone's moving this Bitcoin. Something's happening in the world. And we're like, we're just moving it from our accounts. So we're moving this. You're moving 200 million. We're moving it between our accounts because we want to diversify kind of where the holdings are to make sure that we have a diversified base. But you can't do that in today's world because not only, even if banks were open, five people would call you and be like, where are you moving? Are you sure? You're not moving that for a week. Exactly. I remember we were taking 200 million cash and buying the Bitcoin. And the bank called one day, why are you taking the money out of our bank? And we're like, it's our money. Like we're just buying Bitcoin. We're not leaving you. Don't worry. How often on Friday afternoon are you trying to get a swift wire transfer? I use this example all the time, but it drives me crazy. Every single week, somebody from my team is, we're either waiting for a big wire transfer to come in, we're sending something out because we're buying property or we're doing something. We have big payment to be made. If it doesn't go out, normally it's if it doesn't go out by 4 p.m. Right. You know, it's just not getting out. Sometimes even earlier than that. And by the way, if it doesn't get out by four, you're not getting it probably until Monday afternoon because there's so many people queued up in that line, you know, vis-a-vis the weekend. Why is that, right? I mean, Asher can send me a billion dollars worth of Bitcoin on a Saturday night while he's having a glass of wine with his fiance, right? And it can hit my wallet two seconds later with no transaction fees. You know, when I say no, virtually none. Anywhere in the world, instantaneously, without FX, without banks taking their fees off of it. Like, why does JP Morgan have to have their fingers in this? Why does there have to be foreign exchange fees in this? You know, if you want to go buy your beautiful watch and somebody has that watch in Morocco and you want it. Yeah. What bank do you call there? And how does the money get wired? You may as well just take a briefcase of cash and fly to Morocco and go pick up your watch, you know, versus somebody sends you their wallet address. You send them the Bitcoin. The next day, it's in a FedEx package, you know, heading back overseas. So crypto is incredible. And crypto is going to run the world. Do you see anybody? And it's right around the corner. Yeah. Do you see anybody trading Bitcoin though, for the watch? So I think it's a little bit different because, because I don't know anybody who wants to get rid of it. Right. Well, I mean, that's because Bitcoin is growing at 70% a year and that watch is not as beautiful as it is, right? So you tell me if you want to be on the other side of the trade. There have been people who gave the 15,000 Bitcoin for a pizza one time. And now that Bitcoin is worth about, you know, $10 billion. Yeah. It's interesting because when you look at Bitcoin appreciation relative to any asset, it always wins over the long term. Right. And I think that's the key is like the power of Bitcoin, the power of crypto is when you travel around the world, you're just normalizing. You don't have to go to the ATM at the bank to try to get your money, do an FX rate to your point. You can just transfer your wealth to whoever you want. Two o'clock in the morning on a Saturday morning, anywhere in the world, whatever you want. Bing, you can send it, buy it. Yeah. I can't do that with any stock. It's digital gold. Yeah. It's digital gold. How do you do that? Did you take a gold bar over, you know, you're traveling around Italy with your beautiful wife. You take a gold bar. What do you do? You go smelt it down somewhere. You have to get it verified first. You know, you put it in the luggage and, you know, check it with a baggage handlers. Of course not, right? It's insane. And so Bitcoin is just modern day finance. Crypto is modern day finance. And I'm telling you, when you look back in, you know, in three years, in five years, in 10 years, these are going to be the rails that the world operates on. It's going to be Bitcoin. When you use that word rails, what do you suggest? Well, I'm talking about Bitcoin as digital gold. I'm talking about stable coins as obviously, you know, stable coin is just effectively, you know, a currency. But let's just take the US dollar because that's 99.9% stable coins is on the US dollar. So it's just a, you know, a digitalized version of the US dollar, you know? And so why would you transact with paper money when you can transact visa via wallet instantaneously visa via your phone using the same currency all around? All I'm saying is all these crypto rails are happening right now. It's, they're forming on Amazon. They're forming on, you know, with all the airlines, right? I mean, every, all the hotel companies. I mean, we're going to start accepting Bitcoin. We're going to start accepting all cryptocurrencies if you want to stay at one of the Trump properties. It's just modern day finance. It's how things are going to interact. You're no longer going to be relegated to have to get your wire transfer out using your example, using a Swift system at four o'clock, you know, on a Friday. If you want to send it out at 7 p.m. on a Friday, it will get there instantaneously and it'll hit that wallet. And those people will start being able to take that money and transact with it instantaneously. And I think the, so anyone who denies that is basically like folks in 1985 saying you're never going to buy stuff on the internet. Like it is happening. You're either going to get on the train or not. And- Only place to buy anything now. Exactly. Like to think about that you would buy everything over there or you'd order food on your phone and it'd get delivered. That was unfathomable 30 years ago. Today, if you think about the logic of why shouldn't you be able to control your own money, transact your own money, that is going to naturally happen. And then Bitcoin ultimately is, because that's a difference I think too for people who are looking at crypto. There's so much out there. Some things are more speculative. Some things have tangible value behind them like mining where you're putting energy and you're putting cost into actually producing it. You can't just print it. And then there's some that are just stable coins that directly correlate with the value of an underlying asset like the US dollar. And so I think it's important people don't think about crypto just as a blanket of like this is everything. There are different use cases for each piece of it. Just like in finance, there's bonds, there's equity. You want the Ethereums and the Ripples, you want those to work. Look, I think it's an overall ecosystem. And if you think about kind of modern day centralized finance, you have bonds, you have equity. Right, right. You need more than one winner. You need different products for different types of risk appetites. And I think Bitcoin is just a store value. It's like gold. And then you have other instruments that offer different types of services. And Bitcoin's leading the way, right? Bitcoin is number one by a fraction of a lot. It is leading the crypto industry. It is number one. People love it. People revere it. It's where people want to be. It's become the least volatile of everyone by far. It's the most known. It's probably the most accessible vis-a-vis all the other channels. Forget about the DeFi for a second. Vis-a-vis the ETFs and obviously companies, treasury companies, et cetera, et cetera, who do effectively what we're doing. And you probably have the most behind it. I mean, the mining and energy power behind Bitcoin around the world. Asher said before, the energy used to mine Bitcoin is more than many small countries. They're probably not small countries. They're probably actually very large countries if you truly take what it takes to power the Bitcoin ecosystem. And then I hear from people who don't know really anything about the subject all the time, well, couldn't it be hacked? And I go, if you knew what was securing that system, when you see our data center at 600 yards long with the unfathomable amounts of energy that we use to mine Bitcoin every single day, and you realize that that's a couple percent of the world's total mining, and this is the most spectacular facility you've ever seen, and you know that there are, you know, that is distributed around the world and it's being done everywhere, you know, you're not hacking that system. You're not breaking that system. By the way, before you do, the Pentagon's gone. Amazon's gone. Google's gone. Microsoft's gone, you know. Yeah, so when Amazon had their outage this week, how did that affect you guys? We're not running on their servers. We're running on our own. So like, we're pulling from the energy grid. And then what do you say to the greeners that are like, oh, you're burning too much electricity and this is going to be prohibitive to... So I think there's a couple of things because that was a big topic back in like 2021. And the beauty about Bitcoin mining as well is unlike if you're building a manufacturing facility, you have to run that power all the time. If you're building an AI data center, you have to run that power all the time, right? Cloud data centers, et cetera. For Bitcoin mining, whether our data center is on or off, we're contributing that compute in the network. So we're off. There's still the rest of the computers around the world that are securing that network. And so what's beautiful about... Securing the network. Because they're securitizing every single transaction and verifying it, right? And so why we are in Amarillo, Texas is this. A bunch of tax dollars were given to subsidize wind farms and solar farms. Those were built in the middle of nowhere where there's not enough consumption. And so we actually built our facility right next to a wind farm because that wind farm was losing money because no one was consuming the power. And we said, you know what? We'll consume your power for cheap. And so when power prices go up, we actually shut down our data center because if power price... It's gonna go up during the day. No, I guess it's gonna go up. So right now we have the most efficient... Seasonally. Seasonally, like during the summer, hot summer months or specific peaks and so forth. But we actually help stabilize the grid because when the grid really needs the power, we can shut off because the power is too expensive and we don't want to mine Bitcoin at more than the cost. And so I think that's something that people who are thinking about energy and ESG, like the US and the world needs more power generation, not less. And so the question is not how do you solve the consumption issue, is how do you solve building more generation? And if we have folks like us that come and consume power that no one else wants, but when people need the power and power prices go up, we shut down. You're allowing these sites to be built more economically. And so the idea originally was like, all right, if tax subsidies are funding all of these assets, we can come and actually make them profitable rather than just losing money and taking taxpayer dollars. And then we can help underwrite new sites being developed. And so that's where I think like, if you think that energy is finite, you've already lost and you're dead. Like you have to think about what can you do to contribute to the growth of energy generation within the US. Who came up with the name American Bitcoin? It's a great name. It's sick, bro. Great ticker. I'm trying to come up with a name right now. We're eating chicken parm. I'll never forget this. Asher, Mike, our other partner and me and a couple of other guys. And I go, listen, it has to have the name American in there. It has to have the word Bitcoin in there. I think we have to give the credit to Mike. I think he goes, how about American Bitcoin? I go, you're a freaking genius, Mike. You're an absolute genius. And then what'd y'all do? Immediately check for the ticker symbol? We locked in a ticker symbol right away. We bought the two websites. The websites were expensive as hell. I mean, ABTC is the first ticker, I believe, on the NASDAQ, right? You type in BTC and ABTC is literally the first. And so it's a great name. And I can't tell you how passionate we are about this company. I really believe we're building the greatest Bitcoin company. You know, one of the great Bitcoin companies anywhere in the world. I think the ability to dollar cost average down your BTC holdings each and every single day. If you want to go sit on the beach, not that anybody ever sits on the beach, at least not in my family. But if you want to go sit on a beach all day, you're still accreting Bitcoin, right, to the bottom line of this company. And it is so cool. And this guy is the greatest. And he's a smart dude, right? He's been in the world longer than anybody. He knows more about energy consumption. How old are you? 30. Oh, God. So Tucker Carlson this week said that the CIA is Satoshi. And he is, did you hear this? Yeah, I heard it. I interviewed Tucker once and I walked away and I'm like, I think Tucker's crazy. I told my wife, I said, I think this guy's lost it. So do you think the CIA is Satoshi and the creator of Bitcoin? I can tell you American Bitcoin is not mining Bitcoin for the CIA. This much I can tell you. And look, the reality too is it doesn't matter who created Bitcoin. What matters is. Well, it kind of would if the CIA. Yes, I don't think it's the CIA. Let's start there. But because right now the network is so decentralized, you have these servers around the whole world. And so for someone to actually make a change in the network, they have to own more than 50% of the network. And I think to Eric's point. How many miners around the world? Millions. Individuals. Individuals and machines, et cetera. And how many data centers like yours? There are 600 yards or 600. Thousands. Big different sizes, right? Smaller. I got to come see that. I want to come see that. Yeah. I want to come see the computers. For sure, you've got to. And we'll send you some photos as well. I mean, you've got to see it. And I think that's the thing is, even if you had the money, you have to have the energy to support into, Eric's point, literally country's worth of energy. So even if someone had the money and said, I'm going to go try to break this, et cetera, you'd have all the energy, all the infrastructure. And by the time you're starting to build it, people will notice and they'll go build it themselves as well. Give me an argument against the quantum physics. The quantum is going to figure out, quantum computers are going to figure out the code and hack it. Yeah. Tell me why I don't need to worry about that. A couple. This topic has come up a lot recently, actually. So number one, as Eric mentioned, people are going to hack a lot of other things before they hack Bitcoin. And if Bitcoin can get hacked, then that means everyone's bank accounts, the government, et cetera, will be hacked. And the world is in a much worse situation in that world. That's the first. Second is, the whole value of Bitcoin is that you have the securitized network in the store of value. So if you're hacking it to get the Bitcoin, you're just destroying the value of Bitcoin if you're hacking it. So you actually don't have an incentive to because you destroy the underlying. Being nefarious, just a terrible person. Yes. And then the third one is, if you, so the network is based on like, we went from home computers to GPUs to now ASICs. This is another leap of compute. And so if you're just getting the chips to be more efficient, the evolution of the market will change. And we'll say, you know what? Let's use this type of securitized system in order to do the network. And everyone is aligned on, we want to have the Bitcoin network secure. And so I think there will be an evolution in the compute. And as long as you have enough people, the difference is this, is like if there's one nefarious person in the world that owns a quantum computer, no one else owns it. Like that's a world where they're wreaking havoc in the whole world. I think one is like people developing quantum don't have the resources unless they're trusted institutions. Like obviously Google is announcing a bunch of stuff with quantum and things of that nature. And so those are the different. What are your concerns then? If you had any concerns, what would they be? If you had any. Look, I'm a big believer if you think about AI, they're all the great things and all the bad things, right? If you think about the internet and technology, the same thing goes to say about is technology good or bad for people. I think when you think about quantum, it's the same thing with cheaper compute, which is essentially what quantum is, is you can run everything infinitely faster. And so with cheaper compute, what does that unlock for health care systems? What does that unlock for the world? Yes, there's a nefarious side of things. And I think that exists in weapons that exist in the internet. But I'm a big believer of the cheaper compute gets, the more it can go to advancing humanity and advancing the world. And so I think there's bad with everything, but as long as we have a society that governs around those nefarious actors, we've done that historically for all other technologies. And I don't think we're going to change in how we approach this technology. I noticed that Saylor went over to Mar-a-Lago, OK? Then I see you guys jumping into the game. And so are you guys concerned that there's too many treasury companies jumping in, trying to do what Saylor did and what you're doing that maybe don't have a real product, real service or real asset? So Michael's been a friend of mine for 25 years. I literally knew Michael back in my early 20s in New York. Like we've been good friends. Not only have we stayed in touch the entire time, he actually, I had dinner with him at Mar-a-Lago and he goes, Eric, you got to do this. Right now, you got a mortgage. We have no debt on Mar-a-Lago. He goes, you need to take mortgage on Mar-a-Lago right now. Pull out a couple billion dollars and just go buy Bitcoin. You mean the Mar-a-Lago that's only worth $18 million? Yeah, the Mar-a-Lago that the attorney general in New York says is only worth $18 million, yes. And he goes, and you've got to take that and you've got to go buy Bitcoin. And I said, Michael, listen, if I mortgage my father's house and go buy Bitcoin, this isn't like, I know you're right because I believe in Bitcoin fundamentally as an asset. It's growing faster. But it's just, I've never, I joked to him. I go, I never had somebody try and convince me to get into a business that would ultimately be competitive against them. Michael Saylor really believes, and he believes in the theory that kind of a high tide rises all boats. And he really, really does. And he told me, he goes, Eric, you got to do this. You got to do this with Trump org. And I think you'd be massively successful in doing it. And I go, let me think about it. And then sure enough, and I had been personally buying Bitcoin for a long time at that point. And I met Asher and we called Michael one day. We go, we're going to jump into this game. We're going to take a little bit of a different approach than you. Again, you're going out and using financial markets to just buy Bitcoin, hold in your balance sheet and let it appreciate and continue to stack and stack. We're going to appreciate. We're going to do this. We're going to do what you're doing on this side. But we're also going to go mine at substantial discounts. And we're going to add the two together. And it's been one of the most fun things. Did he like it? Honestly, Michael has been the greatest supporter of us. And I've been, you know, we've both been the greatest supporter of Michael. Michael is a brilliant guy. What he's been able to create is amazing. How they haven't let him on the S&P 500, I think is an absolute disgrace. I think you'll get past that. By the way, I think you probably will in the next month or two or three. And I think he'll truly go down as having one of the most valuable companies anywhere in the world. What he's built is amazing. And he's been a great champion for the crypto industry. And by the way, he's right. He's right. He saw this before anybody. And he's done a hell of a job. And he's an amazing person. You know, I went to him and I showed him what I wanted to do. Right. And he's like, OK, what's the, you know, proportions? I said, 85% real estate below replacement costs. And then we'll just stack the Bitcoin on top to get back to replacement costs. So like an 85-15. He's like, you want my opinion? I said, yeah, that's why I came here. He's like, you're a pussy. He's not enough Bitcoin. And what Michael would actually do is he would tell you just sell all your real estate and just buy Bitcoin. And he's like, yeah, just get rid of the real estate. I said, I'm not a real estate guy. So now we're at one third real estate, one third Bitcoin, one third Fannie Mae debt. So I think we're much more aggressive now. That's amazing. You like that model? I love what I'm doing. I love that model. I think it's brilliant. I think it's the greatest. I wish I could mine it too. You know, I mean, we effectively do the same at Trump. We just do it in a little bit of a different vehicle, right? I mean, we obviously are a private company, so we don't have external investors. We're not doing it in a public entity, but we treasury a lot of Bitcoin and we truly, truly, truly believe in it. And so I have commercial assets. We've got all the hotels. We've got all the golf courses around the world, right? All that's privately held. And we own that privately. And by the way, we have very little debt, right? But it's still, you still have a cost that everybody has a cost of capital. You know, how can you maximize your cost of capital? And then we have, you know, a really, really, really nice crypto holding right across the company. And I've heard different things about what that is. But think for a second. I mean, values extract in so many different ways. You know, you could have a building like this and say this building cash flows, let's just use a silly example, but $10 million a year. But the actual value of this building could be going up by 3, 4x that, but not in a liquid capacity, not in the capacity you see, but in the inherent value of the equity. Yet you have an asset like Bitcoin where, you know, you can see that massive appreciation and have liquidity instantaneously, right? And so it's the best of both worlds. I really believe in the model. I'm a real estate guy. I'm a construction guy. I believe in it. I'm certainly a crypto guy now. I probably spend more time right now in crypto than I even do real estate. But you see the appreciation of these two assets in very different ways. Real estate, hard, illiquid, tangible, cash flow. But your cash flow doesn't represent the full value. Your actual asset, you know, that's just a little tale of the value of that actual asset. But then on the other side, you have the liquidity. You have the movability. You have the protection. You can't have a bad management team. You can't have a fire take it out. You can't have a tornado take it out. You can't have a corrupt government trying to seize it as Letitia James tried to do with us. Yeah, you can't have a leaky roof. I hope she goes to jail. And so you can have two assets that work really in tandem that I think are hugely accretive toward one another. OK, before you guys get out of here, I got to ask you this question, OK? What is target? Next election's what? 28? 28. Whether your dad runs again or not. Would you like to see him run again? Your wife would. There you are. Would you like to be Donald Trump to be president for the third term? What do you think? See, what date will that be? November 6, I guess. It'll be November 20th of 2029. What will the price of Bitcoin be that day? Oh, God. In a four year period of time? Come up with your own number. Oh, God. I think we'll be above 500,000. Oh, yeah? Yeah, I do. What do you think? I agree. I think I'm a big believer of, like, you hold it, set it, and you let it run. Yeah, are you concerned about, this is the end of the fourth? The fourth, what is it called? Halving? Halving, right? Or this is the end, the fourth cycle of the halving, of this halving? Are we at the end of that right now? In a little bit. Not yet, we're halfway through. Because I'm hearing some guys say, hey, the next 45 days till the end of the year is going to be explosive. Well, you have a lot of things that could drive that. First of all, fourth quarter with Bitcoin has always been phenomenally great. Second of all, you've got, obviously, the quantitative easing. You've got the monetary policy. You'll probably have another two to three rate cuts before the end of the year. Jerome Powell goes away? That's always incredibly kind of accretive. Third of all, the floodgates are opening up on crypto every single day, right? Every single day, another. Let me just give you a quick example. I use this all the time, but I think it's Fidelity, every 401k. Your 401k is probably at Fidelity, or your company's 401k program's probably at Fidelity. I clicked into our 401k program the other day. Would you like to create a digital asset wallet? Yes, all of a sudden, digital asset wallet right here. I can buy Bitcoin. It literally took me one click of a mouse logged into my 401k. The point is every single day, the dam is breaking, right? People are getting more and more access, and people understand it more and more, the education around it. And by the way, there's more serious people in this game. You're a serious guy. You're in this game. I can't tell you how many real estate people I know who are trying to pair BTC with their hard assets. And these are the smartest guys on the street, the biggest families, the biggest companies. You have a level of maturity that you have in this industry, and now you have the ability to actually access that industry without brain damage, without ledgers and other things. And so I think you're going to see parabolic growth over the next couple of years. And I don't care if it's five years. I don't care if it's 10 years. I believe with every ounce of my heart that this is truly one of the great assets of our time. And I'm all in. This guy's certainly all in. You're all in. Yeah, I'm definitely in. So we'll have a bill. What else are you going to do? Are you going to buy T-bills? Exactly. Talk to me about what my options are. What else could I invest in today? You know, I mean, inflation over the last four-year period would have absolutely killed your return on T-bills. You'd be underwater, right? You would have been in a deflationary environment. So would you go buy equities? You've got to be in the right seven or eight, nine, 10 maybe of them that win. And then maybe you're making a couple percent, but I don't think you're, again, you just look back over the last 10-year period of time. If BTC has gone up 70% a year, you're over a year over the last 10 years on average, right? Nothing's beaten the performance of that asset. It's been incredible. And again, I see the demand around the world. I see the people who want it. I see the biggest families who are hoarding it. I see what companies are doing, putting it on the balance sheet. By the way, let's not forget one last thing. You've got every private wealth manager who used to hate it. I have a good friend who's like, you know, crypto, that's funny money, right? He was one of the top guys at one of the biggest banks. He runs a private wealth office in Greenwich, Connecticut. A year and a half ago, he was saying crypto is funny money. And now he's saying that he's recommending that all of his people put 5% into cryptocurrencies, right? And this is a guy who was not a believer 18 months ago when he's putting all his clients into it. And so I think you're going to see a lot of just 401ks and other things that take on real percentages of cryptocurrency as part of their portfolios. And that's sticky money. This isn't money that's traded. This is money that's just put in an account and left alone, you know, to obviously create value long term. You're going to get the biggest banks in the world. We just had people reach out. The largest banks in the world saying, hey, we'll lend against your Bitcoin, right? Similar to you can lend against your cash in your account, your equities, et cetera. And so these are the largest bulge bracket banks in the world that years ago said, this thing's a scam. No one's going to touch it. Legacy banks. Literally a couple of days ago, we had to reach out and say, would you guys like to lend against your Bitcoin? What do those terms look like? High single digit percentage points right now. Yeah. But that will come down because lending against Bitcoin- What leverage against the Bitcoin? You could get at least 50, around, call it 40 to 70%, depending on kind of what your margin calls are and what your actual rates. But those rates used to be somewhere between 11 to 13%. Now they're closer to 6 to 8%. And that will continue to come down. Yeah. But Grant, one more thing. I mean, think if you have a million dollars worth of Bitcoin in your account. You and your wife want to go buy a house. You drive by house one day. I got to have that house. Yeah. And $800,000 house, right? You go borrow against your Bitcoin and that, you know, so you have NASDAQ that's increasing. Let's say that it just historically at the 70% that we were talking about a second ago, it's increasing over here. You get that money, but you don't get it after waiting 120 days after going through a New York customer with your bank, right? And pushing paper forms and everybody's getting fees and you have title companies. I mean, that money hits your account instantaneously. You borrow against the money. Oh, I would borrow against. Yeah. And so guess what? If you want to borrow at 80% LTVs, and guess what? I mean, if it goes down 20%, you know, using blockchain technology, you know, it can in the middle of the night, it can sell off 10 more percent and it can keep you in the money, right? It can keep that ratio. Like a HELOC could never do that. A real estate HELOC could never do that because it's set and also real estate is illiquid. So it's not able to actually sell it down. But think about you have a million dollars there and you want to borrow $800,000 and you go into your Coinbase and you instantly, you borrow against the asset that you have that you believe is going to continue to depreciate. Five minutes later, that money, less than five minutes later, that money is in your wallet. And congratulations, you walk into that house and you close on that house on the spot. Yeah, my LOI says I'll close in five minutes. Do you think JP Morgan is going to be thrilled? Yeah. Of course not. They want all their fees. The reason they have the tallest skyscrapers in the world in every major city in the world is because they're getting loan origination fees and then they're getting kickbacks from the surveyors and they're getting kickbacks from the inspectors. And then they go through this process and then there's an application. And, you know, they're not thrilled about this. Yeah. Not thrilled about this at all. You know, and by the way, why shouldn't you be able to borrow off your own assets? Half the time they turn you down. Yeah. They say that, you know, you'll have X number of dollars in their bank. And they say you're not an accredited investor or that you don't have enough collateral in order to buy the house. Like, you know, whose decision is that? Why is it theirs? Why isn't it yours? And blockchain is going to be able to do that using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. In fact, it already can. Can you say, last thing here, I can buy ABTC this morning for six bucks or so. What's it at? What's it trading at? How often do you look at it? I haven't looked today. Five and a half, six bucks. Okay. Yeah. I can buy Bitcoin for $110,000. Okay. So what's the better return? Which one do I get a better return? The thing that I would tell people to look at is this. The way to look at American Bitcoin is how many Bitcoin per share. And we're going to start releasing that number pretty frequently. Because ultimately, when you buy a public company, it's like, what is your P multiple, right? And so what is your Bitcoin per share? What is the multiple you're willing to give on the Bitcoin per share? Because the dollar stock price will ebb and flow day to day, right? And that's out of our control. What is in our control is that when you own a share of American Bitcoin, we will focus on growing and increasing Bitcoin per share. Because if you just buy a Bitcoin, you're stuck at that amount forever. With American Bitcoin, we'll continue giving you a Bitcoin yield and letting you compound the Bitcoin. We're mining it. We're taking cheap capital buy. So it's a creative dilution. And we're growing that Bitcoin per share. And so honestly, the reason I said, I don't know the stock prices, all I look at is what is our Bitcoin per share on a day-to-day basis? And we have an internal report. Because the stock price will go up, it'll go down. The markets will do what it does. But if we continue to increase Bitcoin per share, and over the next five, 10 years, we know that Bitcoin will go upwards. Maybe there's some dips in between, and it'll grow. But over the long term, Bitcoin has always gone up. And as Eric mentioned, looking over the last decade, it's compounded on an annual CAGR of 70% year over year, right? Like some years it's down, some years it's up. But on an average, it's 70%. So if we believe that, our metric... Can't get real estate to do that. Yeah, and if we... Good luck. And so that's where I think people should look at what the Bitcoin per share is, feel like, hey, is this a multiple I'm willing to pay on ABTC? If so, then you buy and you hold it, and you don't worry about day-to-day price momentum. It'll go up, it'll go down. But over the long term, you'll own more and more Bitcoin. If you buy Bitcoin, you'll have the appreciation depreciation of Bitcoin, but that's it. You're not going to compound on that Bitcoin you own. Awesome. Thank you. Okay. Eric, thank you. American Bitcoin, guys. Check it out. Thanks. Bye.